In post 1821, Xtoxm wrote:perhaps a little
but i do feel like lld red flip would strongly imply the wagon parkers are town cus i dont think scum would be wanting to bus her
if its green i need to shake up my game view
this is why shes a good gamestate flip
This is a desperation argument btw.
Scum don't want the LLD flip to slip through their fingers, because when I flip green it's not really gonna be Xtom people look at it'll be hercule, dgb, mastina, IV.
VOTE: Xtoxm
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
Like, there is not a much scummier post in this game than the one where Xtoxm wrote about 500 words on why Dunnstral was scum, more words than they had ever said about me or my alignment at the time
and ended the post with I STILL WANNA VOTE LLD in all bold.
Because it Xtoxm doesn't actually have reads, they have positions. Their positons are informed by a win condition, not a read generation, and it's very obvious, at least to me, that the generation of poitns they are making now is trhowing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
LLD, I don't really think it's xtoxm this game. I don't know if you're into meta but I felt like I had something on them last game and they were run up and forced to claim; this game they've went beyond that. I don't really agree with their positions but they feels a lot more natural and have more to offer this time
In post 1802, Xtoxm wrote:mm, okay response. huge activity spike. probably nai.
In post 1774, Dunnstral wrote:The implication that I never say "I like x" as town is wrong
I did it in Tenet, I did it in the last run of this of this setup
In post 1593, Xtoxm wrote:the tell itself is not absolute - there are some instances of him doing it as town - but they are much rarer. people may cheery pick these to refute our case
misrepping me like this isn't going to help me trust you. there are no instances of it in v1. there's one post where you quote me say "i dont like this read"..but that doesn't
really
match what we've been looking for.
the claim isn't that you don't provide insight as scum (you do as both aligns), or that you never make empty posts as town..its that it happens
more often
as scum.
i don't really wanna get bogged down on the meta stuff tho. it's supplementary.
i'll reassess the read if im given reasons to.
Like who the fuck is reading this post and going "yep this is a town post"
It's defensive and covering the whole way through. It's dismissive to the core. "I don't wanna get bogged down..." "It's supplementary..." "I'll reasssess if I need to...."
Like, then what is the purpose of the post? If it holds no merit, if you don't wanna get bogged down in it and you will only reassess if you feel there's a good "Reason" to, why make the post?
because it's performative, because it's intended to suppress and talk over and defend against something.
It's not town. This is now how townies approach this kind of thing.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
In post 1828, Dunnstral wrote:LLD, I don't really think it's xtoxm this game. I don't know if you're into meta but I felt like I had something on them last game and they were run up and forced to claim; this game they've went beyond that. I don't really agree with their positions but they feels a lot more natural and have more to offer this time
Read what I've said and talk to me about why you think it can come from town, and if I concede to you even a little bit, I'll back down.
But I need more than "meta from last game" to do that, because it's just not a good argument.
Yes my Lord, but questions are dangerous, for they have answers.
13 heads and counting now, plurality is adaptive. If our experience might help you,
I also town read xtoxm although I will admit I'm waiting on more elaboration for the read on you because I don't think it's very good from what I've seen so far
In post 1826, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Like, there is not a much scummier post in this game than the one where Xtoxm wrote about 500 words on why Dunnstral was scum, more words than they had ever said about me or my alignment at the time
and ended the post with I STILL WANNA VOTE LLD in all bold.
Because it Xtoxm doesn't actually have reads, they have positions. Their positons are informed by a win condition, not a read generation, and it's very obvious, at least to me, that the generation of poitns they are making now is trhowing shit at the wall to see what sticks.
It makes sense from a town point of view
They want your wagon over mine because they think your flip reveals more information and opens the game open
Going for me instead while they still think you're scum is a distraction, even if their read on me is stronger
I kind of am? like there's a kind of ~assertion~ there which feels very different from the way xtoxm asserts himself as scum. it doesn't really feel like the kind of post which feels like it wants to be townread so much as just...a thought
if I was gambling the game on reading xtoxm off that post I'd
retire
be sweating but it's not striking me as a scumpost to say the least
preface: this is the result of significant discussion between myself and auro on discord. it is not only my, or his case, it is both of ours, in my words. some elements may be influenced by auro or paraphrased.
There was a spot where they were aggressive last game
They're doing the same exact type of posting where they don't acknowledge a lot of what is going on, even stuff directed at them
I don't understand how Auro's read on Hercule makes them town
from #398 to #685, where he hops on the hercule wagon (period >24h) he comments only on us. no other opinions on the game, or other players. like dgb said earlier, we think he was picking on an easy target here. i have no doubt that after v1, scum were expecting me to be an easy mis-eliminate this game. (hell, so was i)
Reading through to page 37 I'm not like, sold on him being scum, but I can see it going either way
shit vote on hercule. he said he's happy for this to go all the way to an eliminate. but he can see it going either way.
yet, for someone expressing such a nonchalant and uncaring attitude, he sure is hard opposed to applying the same logic to another player many of us scumread.
In post 1053, Dunnstral wrote:
I don't know where to side on lld and dgb. Not scumreading either atm, which could be incorrect. Not enthused about either vote though
I like Dannflor for town after thinking about it. I always have, but I'm less reserved about this read. I don't buy into mastina's case here
I agree that a50 looks like town. Not a strong read
I like 817 from lld, though, votes on the worst feel weird right now. I'm not townreading him but he's about null and said he'd post more later, and people have been putting new votes on him for a while now.
In post 1064, Dunnstral wrote:
I can see herc as either town who is being pushed for not much and him having trouble in the game because he has to argue against that
OR I can see him as scum who feels caught for the wrong reasons, as pointed out by Dann and Cephrir and LLD around page 33+
In post 1064, Dunnstral wrote:But you were being bussed, which is something different than a block of scum voting together on a townie
I can see herc as either town who is being pushed for not much and him having trouble in the game because he has to argue against that
OR I can see him as scum who feels caught for the wrong reasons, as pointed out by Dann and Cephrir and LLD around page 33+
I don't think their reaction is towny, at least. What I thought was towny was mostly a tone read and got town apart back to null in the next few pages, and I remember that I shifted to townreading him as the game went on last time. It seems like a fine vote to me
Thank fucking god you're town.
This is literally where I'm at right now and I'm loathe to talk much about it because the minute I stop doing the charismatic confidence bit, the hercule wagon will dissipate?
and I'm right now more certain than not he's scum... but there is a voice in the back of my head whispering bad thoughts to me, and it's talking a lot about the way the 2 wagons have progressed today, people's stances, and what makes sense for scum to do if we were both town.
Can you vibe at me wrt to that topic?
In post 1076, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Also I want to be clear that I'm doing something I've basically never done before and being transparent with my process a bit here
Which feels really fucking vulnerable and bad, so I'm really hoping that it pays off and either cures my paranoia or refocuses me in a correct path if needed.
lol
Yeah, which wagon are you talking about, the worst or yourself?
Hercule.
In post 1247, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Dunn if you're around I want to dismantle my own wagon I think, but I need to talk to someone who I have the remotest sense of trust in to decide whether my paranoia is legitimate or not.
It also doesn't hurt my team is in my ear about all of this too so.
it wasn't, and you're late to the party. i feel i'm pretty obvtown at this point, and a lot of players have called me town.
In post 1572, Dunnstral wrote:I would like to better understand why lld is currently being wagoned and where else we should be wagoning
for someone who has taken a hard stance of being opposed to the lld wagon, why has it taken so long to ask this question?
part 2
: dunnstral is playing his scum meta
we've done a fairly deep meta dive on dunn, and we believe we've found a characteristic of dunn's scum play. it is present in this game.
we did an experiment of this by having me pull links in dunn's game history direct to his iso, ones that we hadn't looked at before, and showing them blind to auro. auro would try to make a read on dunn using only his iso. i showed him 5 games of psuedo random alignments. some of them he was confident in, and called quickly, a couple he said he was unsure and guessing a little - but he called all of them correctly.
when dunn is town he provides insightful reads that are well explained. when he is scum, this is not always the case, especially early in the game. he is prone to making blanket statements such as "i like [player]" with little or no justification. as town, he just goes straight into explaining his positions. auro looked over these iso's, with a focus on identifying non backed up blanket statements. the tell itself is not absolute - there are some instances of him doing it as town - but they are much rarer. people may cheery pick these to refute our case, but i'll reiterate: auro called dunn's alignment correctly every time.
instances of dunn doing it this game:
In post 1053, Dunnstral wrote:I like Dannflor for town after thinking about it. I always have, but I'm less reserved about this read. I don't buy into mastina's case here
In post 1055, Dunnstral wrote:And I do like Dann, Ceph, jjh, and to a cautious extent lld
In post 1571, Dunnstral wrote:The worst/Winter Flakes/Titus: This group feels unreadable for me; I want to say there's probably scum in this group
could auro have gotten lucky with 5 consecutive guesses? well, maybe. but 5 in a row is pretty long odds. auro seems to be pretty good at meta reading dunn, and he has a heavy scumread on dunn this game.
i have been reluctant to post our case, as im worried about dismantling our wagon on lld, but auro feels its time to share.
we still want to eliminate lld today
we feel this is the best flip for the game state, and we have a heavy scum read there also. we scumread both independently. perhaps this will help inform opinions on one of the players who is desperate to wagon outside of lld.
In post 1818, Xtoxm wrote:basically
-i townread pretty much the entire wagon
-she asked to boped on hercule. i have a mega tr on hercule i feel like i dont need to mis elim him first for that.
-there was a moment where i was talking to dunn and i didnt feel he was being townie at all and lld came in and called dunn town and it sounded really fake
-the wagon feels hardstuck and that makes me think its a situation like last game where scum are just refusing to bus
i think theres more but im super tired rn
This dichotomy is sort of amusing though
As you can imagine 1818 doesn't really do anything for me. Or rather, I think all of those are weak points, double so because my own name appears in there
like it feels like someone who doesn't really care more than someone who is trying to slip utr/look good. Xtoxm is capable of active lurking and is capable of making posts which look like they're trying to look good. that post is just a shrug.
In post 1814, OkaPoka wrote:you think LLD!scum lets her scum partners bail her out and not try and bail herself out? @dgb???
She tried with AtE.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
In post 1818, Xtoxm wrote:-the wagon feels hardstuck and that makes me think its a situation like last game where scum are just refusing to bus
I mean it got to E-2
and I know I'm one of those refusing to vote LLD but I'm town so it's harder for me to buy this reasoning
It got at minus and was derailed
à la
ABR.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
hopkirk can you run me by you reasons for voting LLD quickly?
i skimmed your ISO but... i'm not really seeing any specifics about why you don't like her? It's all kinda vague?
The more recent vote on her felt better but was also more based on Dann/Ceph's behavior rather than her own? i don't really get voting her on that because it's assuming those 3 are teamed which feels like a bad hole to fall into
Scum don't want the LLD flip to slip through their fingers, because when I flip green it's not really gonna be Xtom people look at it'll be hercule, dgb, mastina, IV.
VOTE: Xtoxm
Scum don't want a green LLD flip to compromise them? Hahaha I've been begging every player individually, everyone of them would have been shielded by claiming to do to make me happy.
There are no reason for scum to stay off if you're town.
What across happened is what was expected to happen if you're scum and I stand by it.
Your xtoxm vote is weak and desperate.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
In post 1810, DrippingGoofball wrote:ow she's strategically lurking as her scumpals manufacture a counterwagon on her attacker.
dgb am I scum
I feel I've been among the most vocal about various counterwagons
You're a weak townread because of a town tell you dropped that really believe in.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.
"Metadiving DGB is like playing Roblox" - T3
"She's sort of like a quantum computer, her reads exist in multiple states at once. u have to take into account the other dimensions." - Morning Tweet
I am also voting you because you are scum and I decided you were the easiest scum to catch in the game and therefore the inevitable conclusion of the day
"As best I can tell, jjh is some kind of wizard with mind control powers." -Jingle
