TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Ythan]

Monkeys do what monkeys see.

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh cool A50 is scum. That vote on Hopkirk is really bad.

Hopkirk is sooooo toooooown...

[Winter Flakes]

do the rest of your team have any thoughts about me. like uh... had Ydrasse been talking about me in your team pt ?
does Kanna have any reads in general of this game/is she reading it?

only infinity has been reading. I think kanna might be trying to catch up but idk where she's at with that

infinity thinks you're town

[innocentvillager]

the worst has requested replacement; searching for a replacement.

VOTE: the worst

[Uncrowned]

is that on the premise that the replace out is AI?

[Winter Flakes]

oops

[Ythan]

Doors anyone else feel lie this game has really slowed down over the post~24hours

[OkaPoka]

i really wonder why

[implosion]

16

Saint Markandeya is said to have been granted to live to 16 years of age. When he turned sixteen, the god of death, Yama, came to look for him and fastened a noose around the saint. The saint hugged the idol of lord Shiva that he worshipped (which can be still found in the Amritaghateswarar-Abirami Temple in Thirukkadaiyur, Tamil Nadu, India.) As the noose was wrapped around both the saint and lord Shiva, this made the lord angry and he appeared in his fierce form and vanquished the lord of death, causing a brief catastrophe in the world where no one died. Eventually, lord Yama was revived and the saint Markandeya was made immortal to be of age sixteen forever.

Vote Count 1.16

the worst

(6): jjh927, Winter Flakes, Titus, Cephrir, Dannflor, innocentvillager

Lady Lambdadelta

(4): DrippingGoofball, Xtoxm, mastina, Ythan

DrippingGoofball

(3): Dunnstral, the worst, OkaPoka

Hopkirk

(1): AGar

Xtoxm

(1): Lady Lambdadelta

AGar

(1): Hopkirk

Not Voting

(2): Luca Blight, Almost50

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 11:00 AM PST on February 12, in (expired on 2021-02-12 15:00:00).

[mastina]

show me why lld is scum other than she has an incredible scumrange and could be doing all of this because at least on mastina's end, i feel like a lot of her arguments are: well lld scum could do x,y,z

My argument isn't that LLD could do this as scum--it's that town-LLD wouldn't be doing what she's done and that scum-LLD would.

is LLD a purely poe thing

LLD is a combination of PoE, Burden of Proficiency on her (which she herself said to use!), ~wagonomics~, and this being her scumgame.

They are arguing "if we're all town, that would make LLD scum more likely, right?" when in truth, in a game this size, the odds that 3 townies can be wrong or misled by other factors is much higher than being presented.

There's a problem with that:

Look, you want to kill me? Burden of Proficiency me. Give me one day to decide who dies, and if they flip town, kill me.

Honestly I',m okay with being burden of proficiencied this game

I mean ltierally let me generate some reads, make a call on who is scum and if my scumreads keep flipping town, oopsies, fucking kill me.

You yourself said to burden of proficiency you.

So if your biggest pushes, on hercule and now Xtoxm, are on town, then by your own statement of being burden of proficiency'd...we're burden of proficiencying you.

So why are you trying to shift the argument into being "LLD's chances of being scum go up with three townies flipping just due to there being less townies", when you yourself said to BoP you on the townies you push flipping town?

[innocentvillager]

is that on the premise that the replace out is AI?

i don't believe we're allowed to discuss the AI-ness of a replace-out

[Cephrir]

2109 doesn't feel very fair

[OkaPoka]

by not saying anything you are saying something

-okapoka the philospher

[Dunnstral]

So hopkirk, what is the plan if lld is town?

Is this what we call a TMI question?

If LLD is town then you're next LOL.

This is bad

i'm still sorting people. LLD isn't 100% scum here, i'm at like 40-45% on the slot being scum. how certain did you have the impression i was?

That wasn't what I asked

How do you look at the game if lld is town? Why is scum pushing this?

[mastina]

I need you to explain why the bad pushes are bad pushes from LLD.

Basically, while LLD's towngame and scumgame are 95% identical and every game is different so no two LLD games as either alignment are going to be literally the same, LLD as town pushes slightly different targets.

I don't think that's an unreasonable assumption.

Of course it's not unreasonable--do you think LLD as scum, skilled player she is, wouldn't have stances that are passably reasonable?

LLD as scum is going to make stances that are passably reasonable, but those stances are going to have inherent flaws to them and those flaws are ones which you can use to identify her as scum.

feeble xtomx vote

This is kinda valid

actually yeah
this is the best argument against LLD so far
the vote is terrible even if I can kinda twist my head and understand it

How many excuses will you make for LLD before you realize she's not town?

[innocentvillager]

by not saying anything you are saying something

-okapoka the philospher

lol

but tbf im not allowed to say "no, I don't believe the replace-out is AI" or "yes, I believe the replace-out is AI" so regardless of which one I believe I would probably give the same reply above

okay no more talking about it for me lol

[Dunnstral]

Doors anyone else feel lie this game has really slowed down over the post~24hours

We need more engagement from the worst slot and lld

[mastina]

^so why do you think dgb is town?

Earnest belief in a wrong read.

If Titus were town by the way, this would be her read on me.

Titus is intimately familiar with how I play the game; she knows this is not my scumgame and that this is my towngame through and through. She would know not only a loose idea of why I'm pushing LLD (even if she disagreed with the push), but ALSO know why I'm pushing

her

. She would have reached out to me, say something akin to the effect of "mastina I know where you're coming from but you're wrong" to me, and then tried to work with me, ask for me to trust her, ask for me to work with her, try to sway me.

Instead?
Titus opens the game shading me. No attempt to see where I was coming from, and instead a rather unflattering and blatantly inaccurate portrayal of my posts at the time. She blatantly opens with, instead of an attempt to understand me (or even her instantly knowing where I am coming from), a strong shade of me that she should know was not reflective of reality.

And then she says nothing about me again. She ignores my posting until literally 28 posts of hers later. She didn't address me, she didn't talk to me at all, over 28 posts, with her first post being shading of me and her next post being the polar opposite of a reachout, the polar opposite of trying to work with me. She didn't try to convince me she's town; she put up false bravado.

This is something I can prove with meta, too, it just takes a lot of time to gather the links to show this dynamic. It is a Titus-specific scumtell and specifically a Titus-mastina oriented one.

That's not the entirety of my Titus case, by the way. There's two additional points, both of which also I can prove pretty effectively with time, but I lack the energy to do so right now. The first is energy-levels. Titus this game has no energy, no passion, no life to her posting. It's flat, dull, mechanical, precise. You can contrast this to last game fairly easily, but given time I could prove that this tone is scum-Titus because I've countless games with both town Titus and scum Titus and can tell tonally that this is a scum-Titus who is largely uninvested in the game due to being scum.

The other point is that Titus is being a scum mediator. What's a "scum mediator"? Again, that's something which takes game links to help show. But basically, the short version is, Titus as town is a town mediator, who reaches out to players and tries to get them to work with her. This ties into points one and two as well, but basically Titus will, even on D1, even when struggling to keep up with the game, be providing good insight with actual stances backed by reasons and take rather strong opinions and reach out to others to work with them.

Whereas Titus as scum does the scum equivalent. She paraphrases the thoughts of others, to present them in a more presentable form. She says that players are town or scum, but she makes no true effort in trying to get the town to listen to her because she doesn't feel a need to.

Again--I realize I am not backing these claims up with proof, without the meta, and I want to write the proper case where I show these things over time.

But when I said I'm pretty damn sure Titus is scum this game.

I had some pretty damn strong reasons for it; I mean it when I say I have a borderline-soulread on her.

[innocentvillager]

i don't townread Titus i would vote there

[mastina]

Can you stop answering for my scumreads? It's very frustrating.

For the record, the people defending LLD have been doing plenty of this, too--for instance, they said LLD was backing off of hercule before LLD actually committed to doing exactly that, and wrote a bunch about what LLD was supposedly doing before she actually did it.

I realize the people who leaped to LLD's defense and thought she was doing those things before she did them have at least some town with a chance for being all town. (Dann did it and he's town for instance.)

But I just felt like pointing out this is not at all an uncommon trend in this game.

[OkaPoka]

ill confess to be a sinner in the hands of an angry god and my repentance is to stop malding and start vibing

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Titus teehee

[OkaPoka]

pls sir just a crumb of dgb votes i beg of u

[AGar]

This is definitely coming at me from a starting position of wants to call me scum. everyone who's commented has told me the stuff you've said about me trying to start stuff is bad/actively insulting. you're taking 'counterwagon' is a word and trying to use one word I used (and people should know how I type/talk by now) without considering the actual thoughts being conveyed there. Wittgenstein would hate you.

I clearly mean like dueling wagons for that one and am including it with the counterwagons because it's another wagon with similar people to show there's been a bunch of wagons like that. instead of engaging with the logic/meaning you're choosing to jump on a word/the phrasing as 'scum' which doesn't come from good faith town as it's inherently not in good faith/trying to work things out. That's coming from a mindset of trying to say 'look hop is scum and everything he says is proof of that' which only comes from either town who's 100% (doesn't feel supported by your history)or scum who's thinking this kind of stuff is easier to attack people on than by actually engaging with the ideas

Noooope fuck off.

Counterwagon isn't just some arbitrary term on this site - it has a meaning that the players grasp. The fact that you want to try and cop out by hiding behind "oh I meant something else" doesn't fucking hold water with me any better than a strainer. You were trying to distort the narrative and the moment you got caught, you came in with "oh no I meant something else."

You're not town.

Eat a yeet please and thank you.

anyone who was commenting before about 'x is trying to appeal to a crowd' want to comment on agar before I remember who it was and ask them directly?

i was unsure if him adding "scum" to the end of that was a joke or not

Hopkirk is scum.

It's really that simple.

I said what I said.

[mastina]

can you explain the ceph townread more i don't see it and i'm seeing kind of the opposite

Aside from "Ceph doesn't feel the same way he did last game where he was scum"?

Depends.

Is "gut!" a valid explanation to you?

If so, then yes, I can indeed explain; gut!

If no, then explicitly no, I cannot explain, because it is purely gut.

(I will also say that the way Titus has handled my slot is not her town meta btw. I can explain that, but I'm not sure where to start in describing the difference between Titus as town reaching out and Titus as scum. This is the latter, not the former, and pretty blatantly so, but I do realize it's something that requires background and history to help establish.)

this would be useful.

Like I said, it'll require me to get a bunch of games and get a bunch of quotes to help really establish. But 2117 does a basic job of describing the basics. I realize it is not describing any of the interactions, I need to put in the work to show and describe it, but it's better than nothing.