TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[NorwegianboyEE]

If this wasn't a commitment i would have replaced out of this game 50 pages ago.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i'll go back and quote 6+ reasons that I've made towards him this game to prove that comment about nothing except shade and tunnel is shit tonight

The worst thing about you is that you might actually be town and that makes me even more annoyed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Here's Pine openly pocketing you and trying to save Akarin, but you think you are so good at this game nobody has the guts to fool you. And then you argue that someone responding negatively to a bad push is scum indicative when you literally have no good reason beyond it and no convincing powers whatsoever other than sheer tenacity.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yet another game you've destroyed FL, are you keeping count?

[NorwegianboyEE]

hey like for real though, I agree with you on flavor. He's a giant asshole. If I had known flavor was boonskies I would probably have blacklisted them, and this game is another data point suggesting I don't want to play with him ever again, but do you think it would be best for you to just like take a big break of a full day or two just to clear your head? You seem to be stuck on this and maybe a couple of days would let you shake it loose in your head and move forward in the game.

Fine. I'll take a break.

[NorwegianboyEE]

one thing though, i think the PoE should Akarin/Pine/DEB
DEB because he has done fuckall. Pine for pretend voting Akarin and making excuses not to vote them all the time. Akarin because they've said they would catch up but done nothing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nah Pine, Norwee Town

DEB is very obviously town here.

I don't really scumread DEB all that strongly, but i didn't understand their lack of proactive behavior up to this point. Although i don't dislike that they have a town stance on me as i don't think he would have that if Pine is scum here.
Given a comparison to Akarin/Pine he is definitely above those slots. In which case it could be something like Pine, Akarin and between TGP/Ramcius instead.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nah Pine, Norwee Town

DEB is very obviously town here.

I don't really scumread DEB all that strongly, but i didn't understand their lack of proactive behavior up to this point. Although i don't dislike that they have a town stance on me as i don't think he would have that if Pine is scum here.
Given a comparison to Akarin/Pine he is definitely above those slots. In which case it could be something like Pine, Akarin and between TGP/Ramcius instead.

I really think Ram is town.

The push on you is worrying me and it’s making me think I’m not wrong on either or both Akarin/TGP. I’d be extremely shocked if both of them are town here.

Ok, but Pine i’m having huge doubts on. Look at his progression on Akarin with the knowledge that they could be both scum. It’s so awkward.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What has Ramcius done that’s worth getting a townread for?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also @Norwee why the strong TGP read especially when Ico is currently sus on him?

I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking for so i’ll just share my read on TGP generally.
After Shirou told me more things pointed to TGP being town during night 1 which i’ve already shared i thought they could be town. But after TGP’s lack of activity, reveal of lacking hood activity by Iconeum. And a reason to believe some slots i’ve scumread could be town they’ve somewhat shrunk in my reads.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine is now looking like a much better wagon than Akarin.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I find the push on Norwee extremely concerning.

And I think you are wrong to think this.

Wow. Great argument.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You’re just a broken record FL. I don’t care for your psywar. Learn how to play mafia like a civilized human being.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Repeating the same lie a thousand times to make it sound true.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Votecount 1.10

zoraster(4)

~ NorwegianboyEE(80), Nancy Drew 39(110), TheGoldenParadox(29), thestatusquo(96)

!

@Nancy scum is 100% in this

Scum typically sheep wagons in my experience.
TGP could be scum yes, why would i be?

[NorwegianboyEE]

meaning Norwegian, TGP, Status never are all town here.

Then why are you so uncomfortable with wagoning TGP? Or looking at Status?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok FL actually is arguing in a less toxic way. What do you know.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alright i think FL has improved significantly for these actual reasons to suspect me.
It’s wrong, but it proves he actually might believe what he’s saying.
VOTE: Pine

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwegian knows I've caught him here, and is probably laughing that nobody else wants to believe me

I think you misunderstand completely how my mind works.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Akarin is showing some original thoughts recently that doesn't ping me as scummy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't understand how you can call my case compelling and then akarin makes like 4 posts and all of a sudden you think she's town. I don't understand that progression at all. None of the points I raise in my case have been dealt with.

I might not remember fully, but wasn't your case mostly about meta?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I want Pine because i think them flipping scum is the only thing that will convince FL that he is way off base.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think TGP's actually probably a red herring. I don't like that Norwegian is trying to compromise there, and I will not be joining it with Norwee on it.

I'm voting Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL i truly do wish i had a nightkill this game because then i could just get rid of you because i'm sick of your shit. Unfortunately i don't as i'm town alligned and scum will probably kill someone that townreads me and you'll still keep pushing me because it's a very useful distraction for scum to have you harp on me every 5 fucking seconds.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Could it be Pine?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also tunneled Alisae in Ilicit Substances to a misfade, only to catch 2 scum in a row the corresponding days

Ok, congratulations? Do you want a celebratory high five?

[NorwegianboyEE]

also Norwegian just contradicted themselves with the "his fade will discredit the reads on the wagon" when I specifically get better reads after a misfade, and he acknowledged it just there

I'm not familiar with your play or history outside of some limited examples, so to say i contradict myself here is silly. I never signed up to the FL fan club. And for a very good reason.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Disregard the above.

Hey Norwee

If Akarin is town then it proves both me and FL are most likely in a SvT

What's your reasoning on this, Norwee?

I've described my reasonings extensively earlier. I think FL could just be a tunneling idiot at this point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL isn't scum, he just wants to be right and prove his superiority to show off his big D energy. There's a difference in motivation there.

[NorwegianboyEE]

bruh i got nothing to prove

You've got something to prove.
You want to prove that you can get an elimination through no matter how much evidence there is that you are wrong, simply to prove you can. To show you are the boss. That you've still got it. That nobody in the game can oppose your final unchangeable decision.
I have no doubts in my mind that if you got my elimination through you would brag about it and shrug off the flip while simply arguing that it shows how good you are at the game to make it happen.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also, noting that Norwegian still didn't answer Akarin's questions, and they gave a response that is a blatant lie--they never explained that post, they decided to shade me instead back then.

It's a boring question that's why.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's a boring question that's why.

It's not boring, it's a big deal to me trying to understand your thought process.

I'm impulsive and i've had an angry dog chewing at my leg this entire day. I was trying to make sense of the state and honestly i was likely wrong.
That's my answer.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't know what i thought at that time, and i don't care to think back on it. I have my current thoughts.
If you wanna scumread me for that go ahead, i do this all the time.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I can only assume FL thinks he is better than all 4 of them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Really, I think your read on Norwegian is also a personal reason of mine why I think Norwegian is scum, but I obviously can't use that to convince anyone else besides myself

Why? And what about what I said about my teammates? Why do you think none of them are seeing what you’re seeing?

who are your teammates?

and because people blind

This is how egotistical FL is. Openly doesn't care what anyone else thinks.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i town read people correctly specifically because Nancy scum reads them or vice versa, and sometimes we strong mindmeld, so to think i dont care about what Nancy says is just incorrect

I'm not talking about Nancy here, i'm talking about their teammates. This is team mafia, if all 4 people on the same team agree on a player being town then you ignoring that shows how little you care about other people's opinions if they don't match up with yours.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you think this is the first time i've been pushed for a long time by a loud slot convinced i was scum, when i was in fact town. You would be in for a surprise FL.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Fact of the matter is, i rarely put in much effort into defending myself as scum because i simply care much less. If i was scum here i would be one of the top lurkers at this point or just accept the elimination on me. I rarely have much fight in me as scum and that's also why i'm actually quite easy to read by any player that has an ounce of familiarity with my style.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The one thing I don’t understand is why Norwee isn’t hard tr Ram because he’s extremely obvious town here.

I can go over Ramcius's ISO to see if he's as obvious town as you claim.
My main problem is that i've found their takes incredibly lazy so far, and they don't seem to do much. It's like a real Dunnstral kind of style that i always have a problem with.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The one thing I don’t understand is why Norwee isn’t hard tr Ram because he’s extremely obvious town here.

I can go over Ramcius's ISO to see if he's as obvious town as you claim.
My main problem is that i've found their takes incredibly lazy so far, and they don't seem to do much. It's like a real Dunnstral kind of style that i always have a problem with.

You said something similar about akarin to. Something to effect of "they have original thoughts." and this made them town.

So I guess my question is this: Why do you think scum cant have original thoughts and town can't have lazy ones?

I just don't like this line of logic because it will never catch good scum.

I always imagine scum taking the easy way out as this is how i play as mafia. For example, knowing there is a wagon on me that is town. It is easy for surface level scum!Akarin to just decide "screw it, let's just vote Norway. Easy wagon cus FL is pushing haha" and then we'd have a big competing wagon moment. But instead they seemed to try solving and actually seemed to try solving my slot. Which is indicative of a townie mindset that actually wants to know what is going on in this game rather than just influencing it in a desireable direction.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I put this thought to mind in everything i do. For example, i ask myself. "What would theoretical scum!FL gain from pushing me when clearly not a lot of town are sheeping the push and it would be easier to eliminate Akarin if they are town." And then i find out FL is actively making life harder for himself if scum here and has much more to lose than to gain from this strategy. So therefore it makes more sense for FL to genuinely be believing in his push and therefore being town as a result.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If we consider an world of Akarin=town Norwee=town Fl!Scum
FL could switch over to Akarin, have him flip town. And then argue i was the scum after all. (Chaining miseliminations as FL says)
Instead he keeps pushing me even though he admits that he will look like a bumbling idiot if i'm town. (And possibly scummy as a result) It's also a lot of effort for not much gain.

Therefore Akarin=Town Norwee=town FL=Town is the more likely possibility in my head atm.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If we consider an world of Akarin=town Norwee=town Fl!Scum
FL could switch over to Akarin, have him flip town. And then argue i was the scum after all. (Chaining miseliminations as FL says)
Instead he keeps pushing me even though he admits that he will look like a bumbling idiot if i'm town. (And possibly scummy as a result) It's also a lot of effort for not much gain.

Therefore Akarin=Town Norwee=town FL=Town is the more likely possibility in my head atm.

Akarin’s a she btw.

Yeah i got a bit hyped up there. Sorry to anyone i misgender.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The one thing I don’t understand is why Norwee isn’t hard tr Ram because he’s extremely obvious town here.

I can go over Ramcius's ISO to see if he's as obvious town as you claim.
My main problem is that i've found their takes incredibly lazy so far, and they don't seem to do much. It's like a real Dunnstral kind of style that i always have a problem with.

And that comes from a guy, who's game plan is elim lurkers and OMGUS. Also, you refuse answering questions that you don't like, so maybe look in the mirror first before opening your mouth

Cry me a river.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Haha, yes you are funny Ramcius. A true kneeslapper.

Anyway i've got some info today.
JJH's reads:

Spoiler:

Nancy, TGP, TSQ, Misty, Akarin, Flavor Leaf
DEB

Iconeum
Ramcius, Pine

People are giving Pine a pass as town for things that are extremely easy to do as scum.
JJH claims 626 is a scumpost.

Zor looks fine to me. I have absolutely no idea what this wagon is about, aside from some of you pouting that he’s not doing what you want or expect. Hint: Anyone who yields to demands deserves suspicion, not trust.

Scum!pine in this scenario would absolutely provide a bit of opposition there knowing that they won't be expected to hard defend in a way that would actually derail the wagon, and can collect towncred.

Flavor Leaf is unreadable so far. He always is. He is, however, too valuable if Town to be a D1 boot.

Bit of an ego massage for FL while taking a non-committal stance that forms the basis of an early townread from FL on Pine, because this is in line with how town!FL perceives himself.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJH has only seen FL reasonable as scum so he's pretty certain on town!FL here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

A) I apologize for the aspersions on your psychology. I do not understand much of what you do or why you do it, and it is easy and cheap to slap a derogatory label on it rather than try to solve it. That’s not fair or kind and I will refrain.
B) That said, your insistence that others are able to have instant and reliable meta tells on you is absolute horseshit. It always has been and continues to be. Your ongoing inability to understand why people suspect you in a game revolving around deception represents a stunning lack of self-awareness that I’d hoped you’d outgrown
C) You are wildly overestimating most teams’ attention to their teammates’ games.
D) And also their willingness to dictate their teammates’ reads
E) And further the willingness of most players to take their teammates reads as gospel
F) These flaws in your understanding of how other people process reads you believe to be obvious contributes heavily to the aforementioned self-awareness issue
G) All that said, it also contributes to my Townread of you. Given the stakes of this game, I am willing to shelve my frustration and work with you until either you are killed to reduce free chaos in the playerset or I am killed as a threat.
H) The quoting issue was in regards to the time we have until deadline, nothing to do with TGP, whom I haven’t managed to sort yet.
I) I am also having difficulty sorting Shea

this post is town as fuck.

TSQ's 828 referring to 802- this post deals with FACT. Reminder that JJH immediately locktowned Nancy when they heard that she had seen him mentioned and immediately popped in saying JJH should locktown her. Hard fact is the easiest thing to make posts around as scum. It is the easiest thing to fake reads from, and it is the easiest place to conjure real emotions from. 802 isn't particularly AI at all but TSQ says, and I quote, that it is "town as fuck".
So TSQ is more likely town from this but conversely, it doesn't make Pine town at all.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJh does not think it is coincidence that Pine first pocketed FL and only then weighed in heavily on scumreads, especially against my slot here. They imagine as they read on that they shall determine that Pine is a significant influence on FL's reads here
hence the situation in the present
But they have yet to see it and stopped at page 50 for now.

#JJH wanted me to relay his thoughts so far#

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL being town doesn't clear Ramcius btw. In fact it just proves it's even more likely Pine/Ramcius are the scum on the wagon using FL as their pylon to push me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That's just even more points towards Norwee/TGP team.

Such as?

[NorwegianboyEE]

TGP could very well be scum and i won’t fight a wagon on him but Pine is the superior flip.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also it’s possible TGP is just another distraction that leads away from Pine/Ramcius so i’d like it if y’all could re-evaluate the chance that Pine is scum here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

That's just even more points towards Norwee/TGP team. Just for the record, if anyone thinks that I would let Akarin go and TR her at the start of D2 as a scum, you're funny, really

Oh yeah because scum never come into day 2 with a different opinion on the game after discussing strategy with their teammates.
It’s also a shit self meta point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine/Ramcius have never even communicated with each other except for one game where Ram asked if Pine was referring to a game called Fogport. They just seem to trust each other naturally almost like they are hmmm... idk, group scum?!

It’s getting more and more obvious that this gamestate is scum!Ramcius and scum!Pine sucking up to Flavour Leaf.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine being the elimination today is the game changed we need to put everyone in the right track to understanding what is happening in the game. It is absolutely vital.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Game changer*

[NorwegianboyEE]

And considering Ram’s only been scum once, I’m inclined to dismiss it.

?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Those were JJ’s reads from aroung page 50 btw i should have added that. So not final.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think he is wrong on Iconeum due to them obvtowning in later pages.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You’re mixing up my reads with JJH now.
My stance is that TGP is sufficiently scummy to justify their flip, but overall i tgink Pine is the superior flip.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also it’s possible TGP is just another distraction that leads away from Pine/Ramcius so i’d like it if y’all could re-evaluate the chance that Pine is scum here.

Ram is town, if you’re trying to convince me that FL is right on you, keep this up.

I will keep trying to convince you Ramcius is scum because i do not see why they are town. If that makes you scumread me go right ahead, nobody is stopping you.
If this game is going to keep going with the delusion that Ramcius is town and i need to make myself the villain just to prove the read is unfounded i will.

[NorwegianboyEE]

TGP Pine is definitely possible.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If it came down to it i could vote TGP, with the added caveat that Pine is still scum and should be the next flip regardless.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's going to be pretty ridiculous if you're going to scumread my slot for JJH's reads Nancy.
JJH has also stated he is willing to defend TGP by proxy especially in the circumstance where you might end up voting me for that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actually i misread JJH, he said he was willing to defend TGP by proxy if i ended up voting there, not you.
Correction*

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actually i misread JJH, he said he was willing to defend TGP by proxy if i ended up voting there, not you.
Correction*

Jjh’s read TGP/Ico reads are what’s pinging me the most. Like what is this? You clearly don’t want to vote him so jjh will ride on his white horse and make you double down on Pine?

Yes, he says thats exactly what he plans on doing. Ride in on his white horse and make everyone double down on Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJH would also like to state to Nancy that if she is getting pinged by disagreeing with him disagreeing on her reads that she should revisit pokemon battles. Where she hard scumread misty for most of the game to which they repeatedly disagreed, and where they literally got a bunch of votes on themself for stating a scumread on the last scum who was widely townread (who they later got limmed through highly convincing mechanics)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actually i misread JJH, he said he was willing to defend TGP by proxy if i ended up voting there, not you.
Correction*

Jjh’s read TGP/Ico reads are what’s pinging me the most. Like what is this? You clearly don’t want to vote him so jjh will ride on his white horse and make you double down on Pine?

Yes, he says thats exactly what he plans on doing. Ride in on his white horse and make everyone double down on Pine.

You’re pushing Pine this hard is a big part of why I don’t want to vote him because it looks like you’re trying to save TGP.

If you consider my preference for a Pine elimination even though i think TGP is also suspicious, then yes. I am trying to save TGP.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I didn't want Akarin because i scumread FL on my wagon. After realizing FL could be town, i shifted focus to Pine as he is likely scum that pocketed FL in that case.
From my POV a scumflip on Pine is worth a lot to the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

There's this insane belief going around here that somehow the wagon on me is pure and this is the best way to solve that problem and show that Pine and Ramcius both need a lot more attention.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t think you’re getting it, I hard tr Ram and I hard sr TGP. I was only iffy on Pine and that jjh readslist is making me think that Ico maybe the next wagon you push because I flat out don’t believe any readslist with TGP that high and Ico so low.

What?
Are you crazy? I do not scumread Iconeum at all.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Nancy
*JJH says you should know that Ico is null on their list and they are only halfway through the game so far.
It's effectively some early POE. They do not particularly know what to make of Ico at this point, but would not want an lim there and believes you are focusing on the wrong bits
Even though they are claiming to be pretty sure you are wrong on TGP.
And the important thing is that Pine is scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJH's final input:
Flavour Leaf should reevaluate Pine because he knows Pine's posts have been designed to pocket him.
Also for this years salt awareness week he wants to see more Flavour, less salt.

[NorwegianboyEE]

sounds like jjh scum tbh

Go back to the early game and have a look at how Pine pockets you and sets up the scumread on me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You're being manipulated by Pine who is a very good scum player. (JJH's words not mine)

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJH replaced into my team after ABR screwed up the Large Normal.

[NorwegianboyEE]

He wasn’t here the whole way for obvious reasons.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Shirou has been reading all the time and MT has been focusing on his own game mostly.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It’s a waste to bring up this when JJH not having catched up to the whole game yet is mostly because it’s a long ass game and he replaced in to our team after the game had already gone through a bit.

[NorwegianboyEE]

He also activity spikes on werkends too.
Can you give some question to Pine and FL too? It’s getting really annoying how i keep getting asking these extremely obvious questions and needing to put in Herculean efforts to save this game while Pine is sipping with a girly drink on Tahiti beach and letting FL do all the work for him.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t think you’re getting it, I hard tr Ram and I hard sr TGP. I was only iffy on Pine and that jjh readslist is making me think that Ico maybe the next wagon you push because I flat out don’t believe any readslist with TGP that high and Ico so low.

What?
Are you crazy? I do not scumread Iconeum at all.

You posted a readslist from jjh with that. So why even post that list if not to make people doubt Ico then?

JJH said he wanted me to share their reads so i did.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I hate to break it to you @Norwee but I might never vote out Pine - specifically because of YOU. Tell your team, we’re not idiots here.

Can you explain if this is an credibility issue?
In other words, are people not listening on Pine because they think my team are scum and our words are therefore tainted, or do we lack strength of argument to begin with?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I wouldn't mind becoming the elimination today if my townflip is enough to convince people to vote Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If it's a credibility issue then my flip will hopefully solve it

[NorwegianboyEE]

I hate to break it to you @Norwee but I might never vote out Pine - specifically because of YOU. Tell your team, we’re not idiots here.

Can you explain if this is an credibility issue?
In other words, are people not listening on Pine because they think my team are scum and our words are therefore tainted, or do we lack strength of argument to begin with?

I don’t know what to make of that other than you hard defending TGP and sr Ram makes absolutely no sense to me and you keep on doing that.

So you are suspecting me because you think i have bad reads, is that it?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You're also misrepping me again by claiming i hard defend TGP. I'm null on TGP, i'm only pushing Pine because i think he is obvscum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can you explain in detail the hard scumread on TGP and the townread on Ramcius? Because i'd like to understand what it is about their slot that makes you think they are so town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

TGP flipping scum doesn't incriminate norwee
it incriminates Pine

does anyone else see this?

Yes.
I’ve been open to a Pine TGP team all this time. Somehow Nancy constructs this as me defendibg TGP just because i want Pine first and now some BS about me being TGP’s partner is spread. I honestly think it’s far more likely that TGP indeed is scum and mafia are trying to set me up as the next elimination based on shitty fake associations.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine flipping red gives me more credibility than TGP. And they are a much bigger threat than lurking TGP.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If TGP flips red that’s great. But Pine is still out there manipulating.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Which of scum!Pine or scum!TGP would be more likely to endgame and screw town out of a victory?
I say Pine whom has pocketed FL so far and sneaked his way out of the noose.
If TGP!scum where does that get him when he looks scummy as hell and has no allies?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are you saying that only one of them is scum and not both? Because if you think both of them are scum, then flipping one would help you to convince people that other is scum too

That is indeed true. I am simply weighing threat levels. I consider scum!TGP a minor nuisanve that town will likely get rid off easily. While Pine is a considerably more dangerous individual.
But if TGP is the flip today i won’t complain. It’s certainly not the worst choice, even if i prefer Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Not with me on the watch.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Maybe you think Rancius had been super obviously town, but i didn’t Nancy. I didn’t at all.
But i will say that if TGP flips scum here then Rancius might be more likely town as if scum he could just as easily have argued that since he tginks we’re both scum he could just keep voting me and argue for my elimination over TGP. (Making it less likely for a TGP/Ramcius team)

[NorwegianboyEE]

However, I don’t see anything particularly townie about their ISO and it makes 0 sense to me that Norwee is defending him this hard.

You’re the one that’s misrepping me when you constantly call my complicated read on TGP as a defense.
Defense is me arguing for TGP being town. What i am doing is calling Pine scum and TGP also likely scum, and they can both co-exist as a scum team but also not and my biggest scumread is on Pine. But considering all the possible eliminations available TGP is sufficiently low on the ladder for me to consider them an acceptable elimination even if i don’t overtly support it. However you will notice that i don’t overly condone it either.
This isn’t an: "defense"

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine flipping red gives me more credibility than TGP. And they are a much bigger threat than lurking TGP.

If TGP flips red that’s great. But Pine is still out there manipulating.

Are you ever going to provide an iota of evidence for this? None of this is even remotely persuasive.

Pine has been pocketing FL, pushing me for bad reasons. Trying to create fake narratives to get me miseliminated. Look at their comments on the Akarin wagon, they’ve constantly tried to make it seem like it was my goal to eliminate Akarin when it really wasn’t.
They have also been acting shifty regarding TGP as Iconeum points out.

[NorwegianboyEE]

can someone quickly explain why i'm being wagoned?

One thing was Iconeum getting pinged by your non-existent activity in the hood and Nancy had a myriad of other reasons too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

from this page; nancy is definitely town at this point
from my neighborhood, ico is probably town
VOTE: Flavor Leaf this is a good idea

Do you have the time to explain why is all of this?

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJh states his read on TGP has reversed and explains the main reasons for his TR was the assumption that there was more to the role than just the neighbouriser.
If Ico is now voting TGP then it stands that TGP has not shared any additional info than just the neighbouriser.
which means any additional modifiers are not pro-town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also TGP, why did you pop up just as the notice that you're getting replaced happened, are you actually keeping up with the game to some extent?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I will be sad to see you go Iconeum. If TGP is scum then you being neighborized pretty much hard confirms you town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If TGP doesn't answer my questions i will hammer him purely for that beetlejuicy entrance.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The next flip after TGP should be Pine, and if Ramcius defends Pine and angles for my elimination tommorow. He should be flipped too.
But always Pine first.

I repeat, the path to victory here with a TGP scumflip is -> Pine. And if Pine flips scum take another look at Ramcius because he's been one of the biggest supporters of FL and Pine's push on me. And if FL is town then it can only be Ramcius. No matter how town Nancy thinks he is.

[NorwegianboyEE]

TGP having left after posting that pinged me too much so i'm willing to just hammer TGP now if you are ok with it Nancy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If your plan was to make your buddy flip red then that's fine by me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I still prefer Pine though. Just FYI. He is scummier than Ramcius.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If Pine flips green you can all BoP me as much as you want. But i guarantee you all he is scum. Flip him before me with a TGP red flip here and i promise 2 red flips in a row.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Anyway i got another game coming up and it would be convenient for this day to end so i'm gonna steal your flair DEB.

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

[NorwegianboyEE]

I killed DEB

DEB is that kinda slot that's impossible to sort unless you flip em.

[NorwegianboyEE]

so who I should vote now?n

I don't think this is going to come as a big surprise to you. But i still think Pine is a decent lim.
Akarin should now forever be off the table as far as i'm concerned.
I think you not voting me today based on what Cakez told you is pretty townie actually. I might have been wrong in scumreading you, we'll see.
It's probably never Nancy. I'm leaning decently town on TSQ by their tone. (Though my team thinks TSQ has mostly been null-ish)
I'm fairly sure Pine is going to be my vote today and then i'll take things from there depending on what happens.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ram/Pine would probably be my first two kills

And which one first?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Is it Pine/FL?
Pog.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'd support a massclaim at this point, get it out of the way while we still have a miselim so we can kill a cc.

But then I don't have any skin in the game anymore.

I support mass claim too btw. My team thinks it's the right decision.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Right now I'd probably go Misty > Pine > FL but need to look at it more obviously.

I'd say Pine first, (but my read on Misty also depends on what his "play" or claim is, so pending that)

[NorwegianboyEE]

I am going to claim first and then popcorn it along if we're fine with that.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My flavour name is DOMOKUN. Member of the anime empire.
Only power is my vote.

Popcorn to --> Pine

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also i used wrong pronoun again, soz.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actually my team really just wants both Pine/FL to claim their roles first, and then people can claim in whatever order next.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My flavour name is DOMOKUN. Member of the anime empire.
Only power is my vote.

Popcorn to --> Pine

From which anime is DOMOKUN?

It is the scum flavour from the previous game.
Yes i was fully aware of this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

From TM20 to be precise.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you want to know who they are.

"Domo is the official mascot of Japan's public broadcaster NHK, appearing in several 30-second stop-motion interstitial sketches shown as station identification during shows"

[NorwegianboyEE]

My claim confirms me Town, I will not be going first.

Unless your claim is literally innocent child you can claim now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm a bit sus this could be some elaborate ploy to confirm you both town. And to say that i'm sceptical of another JOAT with the exact same powers as a Molla would be an understatement.
But i'll refrain from further commentary until seeing what Pine is going to come up with.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Shut the actual fuck up.

What on earth is your problem?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Shut the actual fuck up.

What on earth is your problem?

You've spent the entire game shading and undermining the productive progression of this game, and now you've set your sights on me. You are outmatched. I will not be putting up with your snide comments and dissembling. It's scum 101, and you're disgustingly transparent about it.

It's dirty play and I'm done with it.

Take your medication mate.
I've been completely transparent and fair this entire game.
Quite frankly, this is making me question your position as a discussion forum moderator.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm a bit sus this could be some elaborate ploy to confirm you both town. And to say that i'm sceptical of another JOAT with the exact same powers as a Molla would be an understatement.
But i'll refrain from further commentary until seeing what Pine is going to come up with.

these are contradicting statements, Norwegian....

how is you being skeptical of a claim that I acknowledged was likely to get me faded be some ploy to get us town read.

Well with the whole Pine did an action that you commuted thing. Which seems a bit convenient. But like i said, i'm waiting for all the claims.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Then why are you acting so outraged over a relatively mild comment i just made. You're telling me to "shut the fuck up" when this is a game of mafia where we are supposed to discuss and question claims.

[NorwegianboyEE]

But you don't - you attack the person more than the play, and sabotage things before they happen. You're undermining my claim before I've even made it, and belittling the scope of the criticism I'm offering by minimizing it to a single post.

It's dishonest and really scummy.

I do not feel like i've been unfair against you as a person. My criticisms against you are not personally motivated.
Maybe i've been harsh at some points but only as retaliation for some of your more hostile posts such as the one earlier.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You can say whatever you want about my posts and how strongly you think of me as scum, it's part of the game no matter your alignment. If scum because you need to discredit me or if town, because you genuinely believe what you're saying.

But when you tell people to actually shut up, that's where i draw the line. You signed up to a social game where everyone is supposed to have their word. To respond in such a way as you did is unbecoming.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Whose claims are we missing now, excluding Pine?

[NorwegianboyEE]

everyone's just fucking posting at me and getting me all worked up constantly, nobody believes my reads even though I feel like my reads are actually the best in this game, even if NE ends up being town.

Who is scum in your world if i'm town again?
What are currently these best reads of yours?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nancy being scum kinda just makes sense here, but if she's scum she just wins because we cant push her without her overreacting.

Nah man, i highly doubt scum!Nancy plays like this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Misty is a slot i townread but also paranoia think could be scum. But my teammate JJH says they usually never play like they have in this game as scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm willing to let you lead elsewhere at this point

You're willing to let me lead? I thought you scumread me boi.

@Nancy Have you claimed yet? We need you to claim so Pine can do whatever it is they need to do.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nancy/Mistyx/Status are remaining slots to claim

[NorwegianboyEE]

@Norwegian - that's exactly what ScumGamma said to me in that one game, by the way, where you hard pushed me as scum as well.

No i was town in that game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not really hard pushing you right now, my main gripes is with Pine. But i'm waiting for their claim.

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwegian, like im town reading you more for the derps, and maybe it's just me not explaining it correctly, but You, as town, pushed me, also town, along with Taylor and Gamma, both scum, where I was rude af to Gamma, and he dropped the "no longer friends" line on me.

That is true, but i've got also another meta case where Nancy goes on a similar rant like this to Shirou in Dung Beetle and they were town vs scum!Shirou in that game so i'm not exactly keeping tabs on the "no longer friends" statement as a reliable tell for scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I just want to see some claims :/

[NorwegianboyEE]

Since Nancy doesn't want to claim, Mistyx / Status can claim next.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nancy you are jumping to conclusions when we haven't even finished mass claim yet.
I know this feels personal for you, but try to consider everyone else too. We don't want to eliminate FL just because of a personal slight, but make an consensus opinion on which slots are scum based on the hard info we're planning on getting.
So can you please just claim your info so we can move along to Pine and other unclaimed slots?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also feel I was way more of a dick to Norwegian

Can confirm that statement.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I haven't gotten to read yet but will later tonight, just wanted to pop in.

Anyone want to give me a brief spark notes of the day so far.

We're doing a mass claim to get Pine to out whatever it is they want to claim. But it requires you and MistyX to claim first.
So can you do it?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are you claiming VT?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm assuming yes.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are you claiming VT?

I don't know what else you could possibly think my post means?

Yeah i know.
Misty is last unclaimed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t want us to lim Misty.
They’re not even close to my top scumreads.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And Pine is?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Their claim*

[NorwegianboyEE]

we do it for the venge really.

So you want to lim Misty and have them venge you, even though you think they are town and supposedly know you are town as well?
What’s your goal here?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t want us to lim Misty.
They’re not even close to my top scumreads.

its mathematically optimal

You’re going to have to explain this because i’m mathematically illiterate.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don’t want us to lim Misty.
They’re not even close to my top scumreads.

its mathematically optimal

You’re going to have to explain this because i’m mathematically illiterate.

no venge - 6v2 > 4v2 melo, 2 town kills min before parity
venge - 6v2 > 5v2 > 3v2 elo, 3 town kills min before parity

This assumes we count the elimination on you as a "town shot". Which i don’t really.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think this Misty idea is awful and i don’t see the point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The only world in which this is a good idea is if we think Misty!scum. But i don’t so let’s just try to eliminate scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine's is an extremely obvious fakeclaim in this setup

1. There have been exactly 0 other roles in this and the previous game that are not limited by number of shots. An ungated jailkeeper claim does not match the design ethos for the setup.

2. His claim says "Aside from FL's 1-shot doc, I am the only protective role in this game." Pine is trying to assign additional value to his claim. Note that FL is A. claiming exactly the same role as someone else, and B. Not necessarily telling the truth.
But if Pine is assuming he is telling the truth there, which is inherently strange, this is definitely phrasing to enhance self-importance and disregard that there has already been a significant degree of town protective when scum only has a 1-shot strongman

3. This is absolutely not a conftown claim; rather it is one that MUST claim last for scum to have any chance of faking results without being called out by PRs. Pine knows goddamn well that an unconfirmed and unconfirmable jailkeeper claim is as far from being confirmed town as anything else he could claim.
He hasn't spoken at all about his N1 jailkeep which is the only thing that would actually matter for when his claim occurred if he was town. Insisting on claiming last can only be to ensure he is not himself caught in a lie.

VOTE: Pine

[NorwegianboyEE]

Any other elimination than Pine is bad today. And i will fucking fight for it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i think pine's claim makes a lot of sense compared to last year

No Misty.
Stop this nonsense about using your venge kill or that we eliminate in you/me.
Pine’s claim is scummy as hell.
So we have 2 1-shot protectives and a full jailkeeper in this setup. You actually believe that?
FL actually believes that??

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't understand why we think that this setup would be based on last years? That seems like a very shitty way to design a setup and I would never do it as a mod, so I don't know why that's the first place we're going here.

because multiple of the flipped roles blatantly line up with last year's

By the way you're making a mistake with your comparing here, there was no ungated doctor in the last TM.
It was 2-shot doctor, there was no ungated role, period

[NorwegianboyEE]

so scum must choose from Pine, FL and 2 more targets we want which helps our D4 PoE

Pine is scum so why would he be "chosen"?
I'm also suspicious of how FL is coming around to accepting their claim and saying we should eliminate in other slots.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's obvious that scum will just shoot in one of Akarin/Nancy/MistyX so what are you talking about?

[NorwegianboyEE]

there's so many coincidences about FL/Pine. They even posted at the exact same time today, their entrance was almost perfectly co-ordinated.
Post 3218 and post 3219 were both posted at the exact same time. of 9:58 PM.
Am i the only one that spotted this?
We have to eliminate in at least one of FL/Pine when they are so obviously a fully possible and capable scum team.

[NorwegianboyEE]

They came in the game at the exact same time like they just discussed their claims in scum PT.

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL reply by this post fast or it's a scum claim:

What is the flavour of your abilities?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Akarin is being protected by FL or Pine.

Sorry to bring you this harshly onto the real world but FL / Pine are likely just scum. Does your solve take this possibility into account?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also i'd like Pine to claim his flavour too immediately as soon as he comes on.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Akarin is being protected by FL or Pine.

Sorry to bring you this harshly onto the real world but FL / Pine are likely just scum. Does your solve take this possibility into account?

If they want to expose themselves by killing target they have to protect and die next day, I'm fine with it

They could target someone else and say "yeah i defended Akarin tonight"

[NorwegianboyEE]

Their claims can't really prove anything.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Only Akarin's claim is most likely 100% legit so far. And MistyX's seems very likely because it's not a typical scum fake claim or how they go about it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

See the bad idea about your plan Ramcius, is that likely they'll just kill me because i'm the only one pushing Pine/FL. Eliminating outside of them today is a bad idea, period. They aren't both town in any combination of worlds period

[NorwegianboyEE]

They can also claim RB'd. See how naive your plan is? You assume very PR claim is real?

[NorwegianboyEE]

This would probably win "most unbalanced setup in all of TM" if they were both town/their claims both real

[NorwegianboyEE]

Doctors can commute themselves. Has 2x 1-shots. And then there's still the JK.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Here's the list of all slots if we assume every claim is real. (With flipped slots)

Mistyx - PR
TheGoldenParadox12 - PR
Flavor Leaf - PR
Pine123 - PR
zoraster1 - PR
BBMolla - PR
Akarin12 - PR

Dr Easy Bake1 - Mafia

thestatusquo - VT
Ramcius - VT
NorwegianboyEE - VT
Nancy Drew 39 - VT
Iconeum - VT

Seems legit am i right? Perfectly balanced as all things should be with 7 PR's vs scum that are all in VT pile according to you Ramcius? Or what?

[NorwegianboyEE]

FL reply by this post fast or it's a scum claim:

What is the flavour of your abilities?

omni directional mobility gear

Omni-directional-mobility-gear is the name of the equipment that every character on Attack on Titan uses.
It's not specific to Mikasa.
Every other flavour is something specific to their flavour.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Every other flavour is something specific to their flavour.

Specific to their character*

[NorwegianboyEE]

Arale's "Kiiin!" is something she says, reference to the character
Lupin's "Escape Artist!" is about the lifestyle he has, reference to the character
Senku's "Tactical Intelligence" is about Senku's intellectual genius, reference to the character
Inuayasha's "Immense Demonic Power" is about Inuyasha's power origin, reference to the character
Kakashi's "Chidori", is about the most powerful technice Kakashi has, reference to the character

Then again, JJH says there is no issue with your claimed ability in terms of Flavour so i might give you a pass for that one.
If anyone is lying it is Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine's is an extremely obvious fakeclaim in this setup

1. There have been exactly 0 other roles in this and the previous game that are not limited by number of shots. An ungated jailkeeper claim does not match the design ethos for the setup.

2. His claim says "Aside from FL's 1-shot doc, I am the only protective role in this game." Pine is trying to assign additional value to his claim. Note that FL is A. claiming exactly the same role as someone else, and B. Not necessarily telling the truth.
But if Pine is assuming he is telling the truth there, which is inherently strange, this is definitely phrasing to enhance self-importance and disregard that there has already been a significant degree of town protective when scum only has a 1-shot strongman

3. This is absolutely not a conftown claim; rather it is one that MUST claim last for scum to have any chance of faking results without being called out by PRs. Pine knows goddamn well that an unconfirmed and unconfirmable jailkeeper claim is as far from being confirmed town as anything else he could claim.
He hasn't spoken at all about his N1 jailkeep which is the only thing that would actually matter for when his claim occurred if he was town. Insisting on claiming last can only be to ensure he is not himself caught in a lie.

VOTE: Pine

[NorwegianboyEE]

That post is based heavily on JJH analyzis btw. Just FYI.

[NorwegianboyEE]

But point 3 doesn’t make sense and point 1 is factually wrong, klick had a full doc last year

Rainbow Healing!: During the night, you may activate your ability and target one player. If successful, this player will be protected from one night kill. You may do this twice during the game.

From last year^
It's 2-shot.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Putting your belief in this theory that scum!Flavour always makes the perfect and most brilliant moves as scum and if he doesn't he is town is how you will fail to read him as scum under any circumstance because it's like you just assume he never makes mistakes or does something that's not perfectly brilliant.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I can even answer how theoretical scum!Fl goes about this scenario you describe as unlikely Nancy.

Theory: FL doesn't claim JOAT because he is awesome as scum and knows it's not the best fake claim.

Debunking: FL crumbed JOAT when Zoraster did, at the point in the game where he only knew there might be one town JOAT. He did this before Molla crumbed JOAT and was killed at night. How does 2 JOAT's in a game look? Decently possible, how does 3 town JOAT's with two of them being clones look? Really bad. But FL was in fact LOCKED into making a JOAT claim precisely because it was pointed out earlier that he was crumbing exactly that and acted informed in response to Zor's claim. So FL could never claim anything BUT a JOAT here. So to claim he would have claimed something else as scum is logically impossible unless he wanted to be catched out for making obvious lies.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Crumbing a future JOAT claim when you knew there was likely 1 JOAT (Zoraster) and a second one (Molla) was not confirmed until he crumbed himself. Does make sense for scum!FL to do.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Sure he can be town. But that means this setup is an highly unusual one with 3 town JOAT's just to mess with town. So it's your choice, is the setup weird as hell or is FL simply lying?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Because scum!FL I would have expected to catch that molla crumb so his flip looks really terrible for him with that claim.

So you'd think scum!FL would let a town JOAT live, even if their flip might make him look bad?

[NorwegianboyEE]

*Because their flip would make him look bad?

Killing PR's are a priority regardless so to say FL wouldn't shoot a PR is not a very good defense.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I...don't really think I agree with this logic.

Yeah, i do not find myself agreeing with the notion that given the choice between killing a potentially powerful town PR and letting them live to keep your own crumb safe, it's so much more likely FL would just not shoot the JOAT.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This is assuming he even expected anyone to bring up his crumb in the first place without his prior planning to.

[NorwegianboyEE]

For me today just boils down to this: I think JK makes much more sense as a scum claim than a town claim in this game and I think pine has done very little to indicate he's town.

I don't like his response of "THINK I'M THE ONLY TOWN PROTECTIVE POWER" as if that clears him when a) It's not true there are two town claimed/flipped roles with protective abilities and b) setups get run without town protective all the time.

Hell, akarin just finished playing a game I ran without a real town protective role.

Yeah i think we can all keep arguing about FL tommorow, but Pine has just not been playing town. He's kept his same stance on me since like day 1? His reads don't even evolve even giving the flips. It's pretty clear to me he is both lying about his claim and doesn't care about the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I really don't care if it's terrible play for him, he can still be scum regardless.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can I just say, I

really

think we should end our last day with eliminating Misty first and letting her vig the consensus scum read?

Misty is actually a pretty high town read for me at this point, but I initially didn't like her interactions with DEB and I don't want this to be the kind of claim scum can get away with gambitting and then never getting called on.

Maybe it's paranoid, but if we do it last there's no cost and it removes one possible losing scenario.

I don't think doing it on the last day if we end up there is an inherently bad idea. But not today obviously.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think if anyone was scum here with the information that Molla is Joat they would shoot Molla. I don't see why on earth not.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Concurrent scum eliminations should be
Pine -> FL
And if one of those are town (which i don't think, but assuming they are. Maybe take another look at Ramcius or TSQ. Everyone else are townie to me. Maybe have MistyX use his vengekill if we're in ElO. That's it.)

[NorwegianboyEE]

I DIDNT DROP OFF I WENT TO SLEEP

Just waking up.

Is Pine sleeping too?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwegian's setting a misfade chain on Pine and I up it feels like

You're practically setting up a chain yourself if Pine is scum here with how much you're defending them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwegian's setting a misfade chain on Pine and I up it feels like

You're practically setting up a chain yourself if Pine is scum here with how much you're defending them.

Yeah, sure, but I don't believe he is scum.

I think that you have setup a situation where if Pine flips town or scum, you can use that as a reason to push me.

It did turn out that way, yes.
Mainly because i find it extremely unlikely that both you and Pine are town. Yet that is the direction you seem to be going with. Either you both are scum, or one of you are scum that is using the other as a complete tool.

[NorwegianboyEE]

status/ramcius could be a team i havent been considering as much, i guess, i did tinfoil it earlier.

Their interactions between each other don't ping me as scum/scum.
Do you have examples of posts you think makes it likely?

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwee not going anywhere isn't a clear, Pine said he jailed ICO meaning DEB made the kill. I think DEB made the kill even if Pine is scum because he said that

PR claims aren't a clear, so you clearing Pine is bad enough in itself. If i was the third JOAT and the second one with a protective shot i would be EXTREMELY suspicious of a claimed full ungated "Jailkeeper".

[NorwegianboyEE]

i thought they were specifically anti associative at first too, but it kinda looks like scum theatre now that im looking back, maybe im tinfoiling. i also thought you and ramcius tinfoil scum theatre, which is still my #1 choice. Ramcius and you both moving to TGP is what set me off, and i never remembered what your ramcius/norwegian argument was about

Honestly, all i hear is just noise and excuses to not vote Pine.

[NorwegianboyEE]

You're now talking of a Ramcius/me and a Ramcius/TSQ team when i've specifically outlined and you've agreed to my points of why Pine is very likely scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I don't care what you think either. I just want you to move out of the way so Pine can die. But you insist on obstructing this Pine elimination. And then you question why i find you a likely partner.