Mini Normal 2190 | Baby Animals | Game Over

[tris]

hello, i am the new Esooa

[tris]

UNVOTE:

[tris]

UNVOTE:

[tris]

oops. i somehow doubleposted

[tris]

hello, i am the new Esooa

what are ur flashreads

haven't started reading yet. so, unless you want me to pull stuff out of thin air.

[tris]

first VOTE: esooa

omgus, dkkoba is scum

[tris]

haven't started reading yet. so, unless you want me to pull stuff out of thin air.

actually i do, i want u to skim and give me ur impressions

tris u poofing on me?

i'm now at the start of page 8, and i see you having a pointless argument which is probably just nai. there's a lot of goofing around. multiple players haven't done much yet. cook is weird. don't actually have any real reads yet.

[tris]

well, egix is ok

[tris]

VOTE: Esooa

PLEASE just SHUT UP for once. Arguments are only going to inch us closer to deadline and means more wasted time not scumhunting.
This game will go better if you aren't part of it, you understand? Same thing goes for you too Dk. Stop talking about each other and start talking about the game.

If you're looking for scum, here it is.

My Reads

Scum

(-5, -4),

Scumlean

(-3 to 0),

Null

(-),

Townlean

(0 to 3),

Town

(4 to 5)

Andresvmb

,

Prince Zuko

,

Facebones

,

DkKoba

,

Esooa

,

nopointinactingup

,

bugspray

,

Jim Hawkins

,

geraintm

,

Cook

,

RLotus

,

Egix96

,

Polaris

Nullpoint right now:

-0.5

.

Spoiler: What I Mean By All Of This

• Those numbers are ones I'll be referencing when I'm talking about changing my reads. The lower the number the scummier you are.
• The "nullpoint" is roughly where I gauge all my null reads at.

Post 263 and on bump DkKoba from a 2 to a 1 due to anger behind the post.

Nullreads better start posting more.

i do not like this post and will go into more detail when i'm caught up

[tris]

looks like koba is already pressing on some aspects of it

[tris]

UNVOTE: Tris

Don't intend to keep a vote on a fresh replacement.
Tris reverts to a 0 (null) read.

what happened to your read on esooa?

[tris]

@cook

two things pop out for me.

why was esooa the scummy participant in the argument while koba was townie?

why is anger a scummy trait?

more content = less scummy right now.

i don't think this is true.

[tris]

VOTE: cook to show you i'm SERIOUS

[tris]

Also, yes, when a new person comes in, I revert a read to null. I feel like this is fairly-self-explanatory, but if not, I can explain.

sure. go ahead.

pedit: because one of them had to be scum and one of them had to be town and I was more confident in Koba.

why does one of them have to be scum?

why is anger scummy? why

isn't

anger scummy? this is a game. why get upset about it?

welcome to https://forum.mafiascum.net/

is it more likely that scum would be angry?

PEDIT: what bugspray just said

[tris]

actually, i mean what RLotus said. i saw bugspray's name on the first post and thought they were both bugspray.

[tris]

why do u scumread esooa so much? I think she is null here so far, which is where my frustration lies.

I want to flip her is the short answer. It's closer to a 3.5ish thing so it's more on the low end of my reads but I still just want to not deal with her.

so was this not fully true?

[tris]

why do u scumread esooa so much? I think she is null here so far, which is where my frustration lies.

I want to flip her is the short answer. It's closer to a 3.5ish thing so it's more on the low end of my reads but I still just want to not deal with her.

so was this not fully true?

i'd like an answer to this bit

[tris]

gotta go

[tris]

catching up: zuko is reading as town.

[tris]

well, egix is ok

why?

not sure. it was a vague notion when i was reading through the first time. koba wanted my impressions, and that was something that came to mind, but looking back over his iso, i'm not sure what it was.

[tris]

ok im drunk and im gona just out it

the read i didnt like is that i kinda started to townread cook???


idk i jujst felt likje theyre being bad and its that they are town here but not havng good reads lol


but investigatives pls still check em if ur not jujst a tracker .

i'm leaning koba town a little more with this

[tris]

I am following Dk right now, yes.

Okay, then I am also following Dk:

VOTE: Cook

VOTE: Cook

[tris]

why do u scumread esooa so much? I think she is null here so far, which is where my frustration lies.

I want to flip her is the short answer. It's closer to a 3.5ish thing so it's more on the low end of my reads but I still just want to not deal with her.

so was this not fully true?

i'd like an answer to this bit

what exactly do you want an answer to? I made a newbie mistake — trying to "scumread" someone to get them policy elimmed.

what i want you to explain is:
in that post, you were saying that you were exaggerating your scumread for policy reasons, but than later you say that the read was entirely made up. Which is it? Was there a scumread but it was exaggerated, so was there no scumread at all?

[tris]

i would agree that jim is not looking good, but i want to stay on cook with my vote because i'm still trying to figure him out.

[tris]

actually, i can still ask him questions while i do this VOTE: jim

[tris]

Okay we’re definitely getting somewhere. That completely survivalist and Scummy vote means we might actually be right here.

I'm not even sure what Dk's justification was, other than being drunk.

what is your opinion on andres on the wagon?

[tris]

what is your opinion on andres on the wagon?

It looks like he's voting for me for being both unremarkable while also speculating too much about Esooa's request for replacement. Honestly, I think it's a weak case, since everything for town on D1 is speculation. I think it was an easy wagon to jump on.

so is that a scumread or what.

[tris]

gotcha, I ask cos im having a hard time placing him, not as hard as cook tho. Something is telling me cook is sorted by day two for sure, if not by the end of day 1

i think you're right

do y'all tr lotus?

shrug. pretty null so far.

Reads

Town

: Prince Zuko

Likely Town

: Andre, Koba, Nopoint, Egix96

Null

: Tris, Bugspray, Jim

Likely Scum

: none

Scum

: none

Start Posting More

: Facebones, Geraint, RLotus, Polaris

what happened to your bugspray read.

Personally, I'm not so interested on a Jim elim. I initially townleaned him because of him going against the grain on his cook read, and I think he's made reasonable rebuttals since then. I can definitely understand him jumping on cook after town reading him being strange, but the explanation of his progression was fine, so meh. Probably controversial, but I don't see what you guys see. Although I will say my top 3 towns being on this wagon gives me a bit of doubt. The scum could easily be one of Cook and Tris tho, so idk.

Cook has been quite awkward as has been pointed out many times. Not sure if that is just how he plays as town, but still a reasonable chance we just hit scum there. This is where my vote is going if it is between Jim and Cook.

I'd like to see Polaris pressured before the end of the day. Same with FB.

Egix, Zuko, tris, and geraintam are nullish to me, but they've felt good enough to where I'm not really interested in them for today. Nopointactingup is similarly in the null territory, but hasn't felt as good, wouldn't be upset at an elim here. I guess that's a scumlean.

So at the moment, I want to take a shot inside of Cook, nopoint, Polaris, or FB.

why nopoint? i think nopoint's alright.
i'm not a fan of this post generally.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey, Cook! I asked you for further clarification over here!

[tris]

i don't think it was a particularly risky stance to take

[tris]

i don't think it was a particularly risky stance to take

but why push back on a seemingly easy mis elim?

i don't think it was an easy mis elim. and, i don't know about jim, but i often defend some townies that are being pushed when i'm scum.

[tris]

semi-scumread. i both thought that esooa was a bit scummy during argument as a general aura, but not strong enough to be a leading scumread like 4.0 scum. yes, it's scummy. no, I won't be doing it again.

you don't have to keep apologizing.

i think i understand how you were thinking now even though it was odd.

[tris]

VOTE: Facebones could you give me a narrative of the game so far?

[tris]

should i be afraid

[tris]

Oh wow cook rage from nowhere. Weird reads list. appears to be kinda "i want town to like me" list, honestly.

ya know. this reminds me of that aspect of my dislike for that reads list. i had kind of forgotten that part. thanks for reminding me.

[tris]

And we have a tris, hey gorgeous

hello : )

[tris]

should be in bed by now...

but i don't wanna go to bed

[tris]

Justification: I'm sheeping because I trust DkKoba with two votes.

Also, yeah, this is my first Town forum game. First-game scum is a good experience but it means that anything you do as newbtown immediately looks suspicious since there's nothing else to compare you to.

Fortunately, I have a lot of time on my hands and a lot of patience for this so I'll keep playing and trying I guess.

i'd like it better if you would vote where your heart leads.

[tris]

Fluffy sheepy wool coating? Nah fam it's warm and fuzzy why would I take it off?

esooa if u keep just saying things and then refusing to answer ur just gonna tank ur credibility even if ur right. like relax and actually realize that u know some of us here don't know the alignment of ur role PM and are reasonably paranoid of u and need proof and cant just take u on face value.

Strongest Townread: DkKoba for post above. While the credibility of this could be debated as it was directed towards a participant in a fight it's the best I've got so far.

Scumread? GtH, I'd say look further into Facebones. There's something I can't quite put my finger on, will iso in a short while, but leads are now drying up and I need activity for good reads.

Now, I see someone wants to grill me. Snag this pixellated hat and make it into a panini.

wanna vote for facebones with me?

[tris]

VOTE: Facebones could you give me a narrative of the game so far?

eh, i don't think this was a good question, but i'm too tired to think any better on this.

see you in the future, which will be sooner than it has before

[tris]

Egix is lean town

[tris]

people i've had reason to think are town so far: Zuko, Koba, Lotus, Egix, Flea

[tris]

i don't know where i'm going with FB. well, i know it was something about his description of the cook and jim wagons, but i'm gonna just help egix out right now

VOTE: Andres

[tris]

that post reminds me of town egix in the past

[tris]

oh, somehow i forgot there were already other votes there. nice

[tris]

Well if we're doing a wagon I might as well jump on.

VOTE: Andrewsvmb

Deadline soon and I don't want to end the day on a noelim.

Who is more likely to be scum, Jim or Andres?

[tris]

last time you said anything about andres, you had them as likely town. what happened?

[tris]

This game does not feel like it has thirteen players in it.

[tris]

VOTE: cook

[tris]

flea

[tris]

why?

[tris]

?

[tris]

makes sense.

[tris]

Why flea?

because flea is good at poking in the right ways and being thoughtful

[tris]

Lotus, how do you feel about facebones?

He's a townlean for me. I quited liked his analysis of the Jim/Cook competing wagons.

do you agree with with it?
if you do, could you put it in your own words?
if you don't, could you explain what you like about it?

[tris]

Why flea?

because flea is good at poking in the right ways and being thoughtful

Have you ever played with scum flea? If so what are they like then?

no

[tris]

I guess I didn’t formally request a VLA until today - I had a crazy week at work.

what's a thought that you're thinking about the game about the game right now?

[tris]

nvm. i should have looked at the pedit before i clicked submit again

[tris]

doesn't matter anymore

[tris]

But, the idea is so novel that I think it is harder for mafia to fake this and fake the paranoia, so more likely town.

maybe

[tris]

i don't think i ever believed it was scummy really, but it was strange, and i wanted to understand why he was thinking that way, but i just wasn't finding the right way to go about it.

[tris]

makes sense.

Was actually me just shooting out a random team read.

oh really. I was expecting that someone might pair me with jim. i guess nopoint was a little random

[tris]

Like what changed in 200 posts where I’ve been mostly absent?

mmhmm

[tris]

For what it’s worth I think geraintm is saying more than usual.

In my one prior game with him (here) he posted about 5x as much as here within the first 600 posts so I find that kinda surprising.

I should have phrased it more carefully.

I have seen geraintm take some stances as Town, and get shot for it. I have seen geraintm take basically no stances at all, be Town, and survive until the end of the game. But what I’ve mostly seen from geraintm are acknowledgments that early reads are bad, Town basically tends to function with very little early in the game, and that their vote is a crapshoot. Is geraintm playing like that here? I actually don’t think so.

Hasn't he said stuff like this?

[tris]

do you think geraintm is scum?

[tris]

if you do, i notice you're scumreading him for the exact opposite reason as andres

[tris]

i know that. i just wanted to clarify your position here since it was at odds with the perspective that andres had just proffered

[tris]

if it was a full on scumread, i was going to try to get you to explain why you differ from that argument.

[tris]

is it normal to have nights where scum can't nk

i don't think so

[tris]

i am opposed to flipping egix

[tris]

that post reminds me of town egix in the past

this here.

[tris]

Which is why im kinda here for a no-elim.

hottest take is we should not eliminate anyone today.

bad idea

[tris]

no-elim just lets mafia kill for us

[tris]

did tris say they wanted a no elim? 793 to me implies that they don't see the logic behind one

yeah

[tris]

pedit: a no-elim makes it to where only one of town dies if we kill town, which feels likely. and I really have no clue who scum is right now. I have a feeling if we flip cook we see green. but he might be the kinda player that we just won't know till we flip him. But I do want to see what scum do with us not mis-eliming someone. I mean, i'm sure their kill will be the same no matter if we use ours or not but still.

the thing is, if we no-elim, we lose one of our shots at mafia. assuming three mafia, we currently have 4 mis-elims to spare; that goes down to 3 if we no-elim

[tris]

in the long run, if no kills are stopped, a no-elim does amount to one less elimination, and one more mafia-kill

[tris]

a mis-elim on some who is likely to be mis-elimmed down the road is actually better than no-elim.

[tris]

Just read through and thoughts are not connecting to my head properly. Can someone summarize?

summarize what??

[tris]

cook, tell me. why are you voting andres when you townleaned him before?

[tris]

cook, tell me. why are you voting andres when you townleaned him before?

That's the most-voted wagon right now, and deadline is (expired on 2021-01-20 07:44:00) away.

At the time you switched your vote, the cook wagon, and the jim wagon were tied.

[tris]

VOTE: nopoint do you have any other scumreads?

[tris]

Cook scum implies dk scum 90% of the time. If you are town and think the last wagon of a series of flash wagon (jim) is on scum you’re really bad at this game.

Your read on cook has no development, your only point on cook is cook responded = cook town, and you’re chainsawing me for thinking he’a scummy.

thanks for TMIing cook as town <3

huh?

[tris]

oh cool

[tris]

lol

[tris]

So stop doing it.

And I don’t want to be rude or anything, but I will absolutely explain my reasoning for voting you and for why I think others should, since you know this is a game of Mafia. Would you prefer I didn’t play the game?

uh, i think the stop doing it was in reference to you supposedly skipping over his explanation.

[tris]

triscuits aren't triangle though

[tris]

I was going back and ISO’ing Tris, and I find 660 to be strange. They had shaded Cook in 659, 577, and 306, and had been pressing them on something they thought Cook had been lying about (see 539), but then they ask Cook to vote with them onto Facebones?

I was trying to get them to vote for someone that they apparently scumread.

@Tris, can you give me an updated view of the game from your POV? And do you think between Cook/nopoint, nopoint is the better vote?

at this point, i think cook is making it clear that they are scum, so that lol.
but, even before i would have said cook. i voted for nopoint because i wanted to see what would happen with this flashwagon koba wanted to do. the results of that have strengthened my koba townread. i'll have to take a look over nopoint. if cook really is flipping scum here, that's probably a good sign, but i'll to see if i think it could be a bus.

my view of the game generally. well, i listed my towns. not sure who the other mafs are yet. gonna go take a look. if had to guess a name right now, i'd say... maybe facebones after all.

[tris]

koba is clearly town

[tris]

um, i think VOTE: gerian has decent chance

[tris]

Facebones is always town.

why is this?

[tris]

i still think egix is town. and i think him defending koba is a sign of that. (assuming koba really is town)

[tris]

soon i will i have something i need to do first

[tris]

koba is clearly town

Two confirmed town is calling him scum so do you mind outlining the reason why you think this is the case?

*them

here are some things that make me townread them.

the fight with esooa was at least very in character for town koba.
207 gives me the sense that cook knew that they were both town.
947
the mason fakeclaim i think is more likely to come from town.
and, generally, their progression on cook seems authentic.

[tris]

so you don't have credibility?

does that make them not town?

[tris]

ok but theres something really wrong with the way ur pushing me here and i cant put my finger on it

this and previous posts like it is also town.

[tris]

I also have a feeling that Koba starting arguing forcefully for me as Town (to Cook) in thread because they felt it would be far more beneficial for them if Cook pushed something else, potentially to get me to focus less on them (after all, part of my analysis did have to do with their bad vote on my slot).

couldn't this be done in a scum pt?

[tris]

koba is clearly town

Two confirmed town is calling him scum so do you mind outlining the reason why you think this is the case?

*them

here are some things that make me townread them.

the fight with esooa was at least very in character for town koba.
207 gives me the sense that cook knew that they were both town.
947
the mason fakeclaim i think is more likely to come from town.
and, generally, their progression on cook seems authentic.

I don’t have any sense as to why you seem to think that the switch onto Cook is authentic. It happened when momentum was clearly moving against Cook. There’s a very clear self-interest there to avoid looking like you were against a Scum execution the whole time. If anything, I think Town!Koba probably persists with that Read until the end of the day, instead of flipping at a convenient time.

I like the explanation in 947

[tris]

koba is clearly town

Two confirmed town is calling him scum so do you mind outlining the reason why you think this is the case?

*them

here are some things that make me townread them.

the fight with esooa was at least very in character for town koba.
207 gives me the sense that cook knew that they were both town.
947
the mason fakeclaim i think is more likely to come from town.
and, generally, their progression on cook seems authentic.

I don’t have any sense as to why you seem to think that the switch onto Cook is authentic. It happened when momentum was clearly moving against Cook. There’s a very clear self-interest there to avoid looking like you were against a Scum execution the whole time. If anything, I think Town!Koba probably persists with that Read until the end of the day, instead of flipping at a convenient time.

why does scum!koba jump onboard the cook wagon for town credit if, as we can see right now, it's not earning them much, and they could have used the excuse of how how town!them does sometimes stick with bad reads like that.

[tris]

idk why everyone off the fucking wagon get a pass why do i need to be held to these ridiculous standards every fucking game im town

When did anyone say this? There's almost always at least one scum on a scum elim d1 so it makes sense to Poe either people on the wagon or people off the wagon and right now we have an unconscious consensus that we can more easily find the scum on in the wagon

is there >rand?

[tris]

Facebones is always town.

Esooa slot is always town.

Nopoint is cleared.

Andres is prob town but im concerned with how hes approaching me rn cuz if u actually look at my d1 im pretty confidently spewed town by how cook interacts with me but i guess thags just my pov that its obvious.

facebones could be scum if bugspray flips scum here imo btw ^^ just in case for the future.

dont like the angleshoot at all but bugspray would do it which is lowkey grimy and i dont like it.

angleshoot?

[tris]

oh oh the townslip stuff

[tris]

It was just something I found interesting. I'm sure we'll find out if it's relevant or not in due time.

you can always just get a personal pt from the mod and then quote all these little things there so it doesnt clog up your iso

I wasn't exactly sure how to get myself a notes PT, thanks for the advice. Should make life a bit easier

actually, how is this a townslip at all?

[tris]

idk why everyone off the fucking wagon get a pass why do i need to be held to these ridiculous standards every fucking game im town

When did anyone say this? There's almost always at least one scum on a scum elim d1 so it makes sense to Poe either people on the wagon or people off the wagon and right now we have an unconscious consensus that we can more easily find the scum on in the wagon

is there >rand?

No but I literally do not remember being in a game where there wasn't scum on the wagon that eliminates the first scum

if you don't think it happens >rand, then how is it a meaningful category?

[tris]

oh, i forgot to mention this earlier. the fact that cook wouldn't vote for facebones even after my prompting even though he was his only expressed scumread at the time that wasn't just sheeping someone could be a scum indication.

[tris]

i need to read up on facebones again.

[tris]

how is having the wrong impression of how people will view you scum indicative?

[tris]

god i am in such a love/hate relationship with being pushed cause on one hand its like i have a green check on my own slot ofc and i know that anyone pushing me is wrong therefore i can be like huh why are u pushing on someone town lets see ur reasoning ..

idk lol weird thoughspew and i have a headache and grr

i like being pushed for this same reason. sometimes it helps engage when i feel a bit lost.

[tris]

@backupmod you have some invisible non-voters

[tris]

haven't actually read the iso like i've intended yet, but i want my vote here. mostly due to the point i brought up earlier.

VOTE: facebones

[tris]

how am i supposed to read you then?

[tris]

oh, i forgot to mention this earlier. the fact that cook wouldn't vote for facebones even after my prompting even though he was his only expressed scumread at the time that wasn't just sheeping someone could be a scum indication.

Is this the point you were referring to?
If I was his scum buddy, surely he would've tried harder to make sure his play more consistent, especially on D1.

I don't know what you mean by this sentence. Why would you being his scumbuddy make his play more consistent?

I think I was his main or only scum read? And he still didn't vote me, even after some gentle persuasion?

that's exactly my point. he didn't vote for you even though you were his only scumread.

These inconsistencies just make it seem like I was an afterthought when he had somewhat accepted his fate- one last ditch attempt to try and line up a mis-elimination.

If he had accepted his fate, that makes it more likely to be distancing does it not?

[tris]

Town:
No Point
Flea
RLotus

Null:
Tris
Jim
Geraintim

Scum:
DkKobra
Andre
Egix

I find it interesting that you have both andre and koba in your scum pile. could you tell me more about that?

[tris]

i don't think locknull is a thing and it's definitely not desirable to be locknull as any alignment

I know I am town. So I am happy right now if people put me in a box like that where I won't cause any trouble. I will just be happier to contribute more once people decide to move on from dkkoba or not

I do realise that my playtime isn't very helpful

i'm moving on from talking about koba at atm

[tris]

It was just something I found interesting. I'm sure we'll find out if it's relevant or not in due time.

is it due time yet?

[tris]

In case I didnt make it obvious enough: My interpretation is I think scum want to get out the only voice who was somewhat verbally opposed to their agenda of eliminating Cook

At what point did you stop believing this?

[tris]

is there anybody out there?

[tris]

but considering Cook was buddying up to Dk almost all D1,

isn't this something scum does with town??

[tris]

I hope you're alright flea

[tris]

Flea, is your lowering of the koba townread just for today's events?

[tris]

VOTE: geriantm

how about my vote's on you until you give a few reads.

[tris]

i thought you were saying that that was a reason to scumread?

[tris]

or rather to lower townread

[tris]

VOTE: geriantm

how about my vote's on you until you give a few reads.

Reads you say....

I know I am an easy elimination, dkkoba was too. People voting these 2 slots are suspicious in my book....

that's everyone who is voting.

[tris]

VOTE: geriantm

how about my vote's on you until you give a few reads.

Reads you say....

I know I am an easy elimination, dkkoba was too. People voting these 2 slots are suspicious in my book....

that's everyone who is voting.

basically everyone except you and koba.

[tris]

are any of the votes more suspicious?

[tris]

oh wait i'm wrong. facebones isn't voting, and neither is bugspray. but my question still stands. which of those 6 votes do you find more suspicious

[tris]

the people voting for you do not think koba is scum.

you know, i forgot that you said said that you were townreading them. although you did it in a way where it doesn't look like you actually have a townread. you're just passing it on to the future
"I am going to read dkkoba as town for the time being but hope someone else can solve them properly before the end of the game."

[tris]

hi gamma!

[tris]

i think that's a fair assumption to make.

[tris]

are you going to respond to me or anything?

[tris]

what is a nullslip?

[tris]

In case I didnt make it obvious enough: My interpretation is I think scum want to get out the only voice who was somewhat verbally opposed to their agenda of eliminating Cook

At what point did you stop believing this?

I don't understand the point of this question? It feels like shading.

it is not. it's an honest question. trying to understand your thought process, and how it has shifted.

[tris]

Gammmaaaaaaaa

[tris]

you don't want to wait for gamma or 2nd replacement anymore? what happened to seeing if he'd spew town?

[tris]

blehhhh

[tris]

sure whatever.

[tris]

i hope you guys are actually right on this

[tris]

cause that would be pretty awesome

[tris]

oh i thought that was a hammer.

[tris]

so you're not doing anything gamma?

[tris]

in that case i'll hammer i guess

[tris]

i knew egix was town. didn't know anything else. but, i knew that

[tris]

it's funny how my two strongest townreads both got strongly pushed by a mason.

[tris]

i like how the only thing the roleblocker could do is block fruit