TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Pine]

It’s described exactly the same way a Strongman is.

Commuter is not a protective ability. Even if it were, as it only self-targets, it is extremely weak. Even if we include it in the numbers, four remains smaller than five.

[Pine]

The evidence is pretty damn clear cut that you're wrong but you are wanting to drown me out with enough bullshit that everyone glazes over it.

I’m not trying to drown you out, I’m trying to CONVINCE you, but you’re so damn suspicious you’re not listening!

[Pine]

I’m not throwing up static, here, I’m doing actual research, providing basis for my arguments. I’m not trying to stifle you, I’m trying to persuade you.

LISTEN to me, please!

[Pine]

You gave us a shot at winning this with your vig shot, and I’m worried that we’re just throwing it down the drain with the constant paranoia and tunnel vision.

I said some pretty trashy things earlier in the game, but I’m trying to get through to you now. Just...come on.

Listen to me

[Akarin]

I'll come back to this tomorrow, because you're right, tonight there's like 0 chance I'm going to believe anything you say.

But you are 1000% wrong about the roles in the last game.

[Akarin]

And you should really admit that if you want to be treated like an adult.

[Pine]

I have admitted several times that it is entirely possible that I am wrong. For all I know, hitogoroshi got the role PM, checked with Penguin, and Penguin replied “yeah, it’s a 3x 1-shot JOAT”. The action resolution certainly supports that interpretation.

A straight reading of the role PM, however, does not.

So yeah - I could be wrong here.

However.

Even if wrong, that’s five strong protective shots to two, or two strong and two weak if you want to insist on including Commuter shots. They are not equivalent. A jailkeeper, which is notorious for providing negative utility to Town if used improperly, brings this back into balance.

[Pine]

I will also come back to this tomorrow because my spoons for this game are more than spent.

[Pine]

Because it reads like your approach is discredit first, doublecheck the end of game action resolution stuff later.

Listen, before I sleep I want to address this more directly after a bit of a cool down.

I get that you are primed for an attack. I was shitty earlier on, but I’m trying to change my approach.

I haven’t actually been attacking you tonight. Defending my position, even when we strongly disagree, isn’t personal. It’s about facts and evidence, and we don’t see eye to eye on what those facts are. That’s okay. It’s the core of this game - people hashing out their interpretations of things until one makes more sense than the other.

Go back over the last couple of pages. I’m not attacking you, I’m attacking your argument. And I think I lost. A plain reading of the flip supports my position, but the action resolution post in endgame supports yours. Probably more strongly. Penguin’s stated policy on answering questions publicly means we’re going to have to wait until post-game to find out who is right here.

Like I said, I said some shitty, condescending things earlier in the game, and I’m trying to walk them back. Part of that is admitting you’ve gotten the better of me here - not through shouting louder or being more hurtful, just through having better facts and arguments.

Now I’m asking that you look at my response to those facts - that even if you’re right, there is a significant protective disparity between these two games, and a Strongman is not justified by the two JOATs alone.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hitogoroshi’s role was like a JOAT with 3 1-shot abilities. It was not described perfectly well in their role pm but if you read the game you will find out that is how their role worked. To say he was ungated but chose to not act on N4 and N5 is pretty clearly an falsification.
The reason Pine argues so hard for this is because he genuinely knows his claim is fake and he needs to prove it’s not a made up claim.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Action resolution sheet for reference.

Event/Action Summary

Day 1

Reundo

- (

DAAC Member; Domokun

) - lynched Day 1

Night 1

Chemist1422

- Watches Menalque - No one targeted Menalque.

mastina

- Neighborizes Menalque - failed due to Loyal modifier.

Klick

- Protects noone - success, Klick is lazy.

jjh927

- Aliens Klick - success, Klick is aliened.

hitogoroshi

- Gifts Bulletproof talisman to mastina - success

Kerset

- Activates Ninja, kills jjh927 - success, jjh927 (

MAARF Member; Untrod Tripod

) is killed

Day 2

Menalque

- (

DAAC Member; Hakuryū Ren

) - lynched Day 2

Night 2

Chemist1422

- Tracks Kerset - No result due to Kerset ascetic ability

Klick

- Protects mastina - Success, mastina is protected from one kill

mastina

- Bulletproof due to Talisman

ofrhz

- Targets Alisae - success, Alisae is killed

hitogoroshi

- Gifts Hated talisman to Bitmap - success

Kerset

- Activates Ascetic ability and kills Alisae - success & success, rendered untargetable and Alisae is super killed

Day 3

Bitmap

- (

MAARF Member; Princess of the Crystal

) - lynched Day 3

Night 3

Chemist1422

- Follows Klick - success

hitogoroshi

- Gifts Loved talisman to Kerset - success

Klick

- Protects Chemist1422 - success

Kerset

- Watches Chemist and Kills mastina - success Klick targeted Chemist and mastina dies

Day 4

ofrhz

- (

MAARF Member; Mami Tomoe

) - lynched Day 4

Night 4

Kerset

- Kills Klick - success Klick dies

Day 5

Shadoweh

- (

MAARF Member; Ahiru Arima

) - lynched Day 5

Night 5

Kerset

- Kills hitogoroshi - success hitogoroshi dies

All players request a fast night

Day 6

Kerset

- (

DAAC Member - Natsu Dragneel

) - lynched Day 6

Hitogoroshi uses 1 shot of each ability on N1/N2/N3. Does not use any shot on N4/N5 because his role is gated and he ran empty.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I say again that all previous roles in TM20 was gated. All flipped and claimed roles in this game except for Pine’s full on Jailkeeper claim is gated.
Jailkeeper is the odd man out, Pine lied. And therefore he is scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Not only did he lie, but he is not town lying but specifically scum lying. This is because he is arguing that me trying to eliminate him is because i’m scum afraid of his role, but i think it’s pretty obvious his role is a complete lie. So even if i was scum here it doesn’t change the fact that his role is fake. And if he was town that knew he lied about his role then he would rather just admit it instead of doubling down in this way to get me mislimmed when i genuinely caught him out on this.

[Flavor Leaf]

Norwegian's just scum essentially giving his life to get rid of the JK.

[Flavor Leaf]

he's banking on the Ramcius/Status 1v1 to win the game

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwegian's just scum essentially giving his life to get rid of the JK.

You’re being a bit of a clown. I hope you’ll reflect on it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Norwegian's just scum essentially giving his life to get rid of the JK.

But Akarin is agreeing with him and she’s confitown.

[Flavor Leaf]

Conftown does not mean reads are right, but i know you know that, so what did you mean by that comment?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Conftown does not mean reads are right, but i know you know that, so what did you mean by that comment?

I mean she’s obviously not scum, so her reads can’t be misinterpreted as such.

[Flavor Leaf]

Right.

In my experience, conf town reads are usually wrong because it’s where scum spend their effort trying to convince

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m also obv biased here.

But idk, people don’t wanna listen to me even though even Norwegian sees that I’m obv town at this point

[Flavor Leaf]

The only people who don’t see me as obv town are Nancy, Mistyx, and Akarin, the 3 people who are gonna misfade me anyways

[Mistyx]

remember when this was supposed to be the slow TM game

[NorwegianboyEE]

But idk, people don’t wanna listen to me even though even Norwegian sees that I’m obv town at this point

Vote Pine then. They are clearly scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Last year I slip as mafia, the one before that like 3-4 years ago, I get worlds most terrible rand as scum in the Large Theme and still nearly go all the way solo, this year I solve as town early and get misfaded

I must have some type of Team Mafia curse