TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Thestatusquo]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

I do not believe JJH endorsed that. Full stop.

That’s why my team is reacessing now because once I explained to Math about the strongman, he realized a you/FL team along with a DEB strongman and no other counterbalancing TPR roles, makes absolutely no sense with just a 1 shot doc and Shea has modded games so I don’t understand how he can honestly believe this.

I've modded games with gunsmith with no guns in them. Shrug.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

I do not believe JJH endorsed that. Full stop.

That’s why my team is reacessing now because once I explained to Math about the strongman, he realized a you/FL team along with a DEB strongman and no other counterbalancing TPR roles, makes absolutely no sense with just a 1 shot doc and Shea has modded games so I don’t understand how he can honestly believe this.

I've modded games with gunsmith with no guns in them. Shrug.

Why would you have gunsmith as role without guns? It’s similar to having a miller/godfather without an AC, loyal/disloyal or desperado in the setup or a ninja with no tracker.

[Thestatusquo]

because good setup design means players can't figure out which roles are or are not in the game based on flips. I personally like things like that in games I design. I've definitely had godfathers with no investigative roles too.

[Thestatusquo]

VOTE: no elim

Let's get back to odd numbers, I doubt we'll achieve anything this day phase anyway

i agree

VOTE: mistyx

i think this is roughly 0% to happen.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

I do not believe JJH endorsed that. Full stop.

That’s why my team is reacessing now because once I explained to Math about the strongman, he realized a you/FL team along with a DEB strongman and no other counterbalancing TPR roles, makes absolutely no sense with just a 1 shot doc and Shea has modded games so I don’t understand how he can honestly believe this.

I've modded games with gunsmith with no guns in them. Shrug.

Why would you have gunsmith as role without guns? It’s similar to having a miller/godfather without an AC, loyal/disloyal or desperado in the setup or a ninja with no tracker.

JJ claims it's a mod meta thing. As a moderator who mods lots of games, you build things into your setups specifically to remind people from time to time that they shouldn't make assumptions about your setups. I've put a scum miller into my setup before and a town rolecop assumed it was an inno.
If you don't do things like that then your setups become more predictable and therefore more town-sided.

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJ put scum miller*

[Mistyx]

VOTE: no elim

Let's get back to odd numbers, I doubt we'll achieve anything this day phase anyway

i agree

VOTE: mistyx

i think this is roughly 0% to happen.

perhaps

[NorwegianboyEE]

JJ claims it's a mod meta thing. As a moderator who mods lots of games, you build things into your setups specifically to remind people from time to time that they shouldn't make assumptions about your setups. JJ put a scum miller into his setup before and a town rolecop assumed it was an inno.
If mods don't do things like that then the setups become more predictable and therefore more town-sided.

Ebwop

[Thestatusquo]

Like I tend to treat setup spec mostly as a red herring, because as a mod I design games that can't be solved by setup spec because that's what good setups look like. I know jingle knows this, because he's been involved in designing games with me, so its wild to me to hear him claim that somehow pine is cleared by mech spec when I know for a fact that in no game he designed would that be true.

[Thestatusquo]

This is what i'm talking about when I say I think pine has been making disingenuous arguments.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like, even from a scum strategy point.
It's so obvious that one of the unique viable ways for a scum win for Pine, is to miseliminate someone else today.
And do another 1v1 with me tomorrow. And all we gained from it later is the fact we can't eliminate both Ramcius/FL anymore, and the Pine partner is likely there, so they have at least a 50% chance of victory in that world.
He also can kill Akarin off so it's Mistyx/Nancy/Ramcius/FL. All of which are very indecisive towards him.
It’s genuinely mafia 101.
If it's Pine/FL for example, that's a straight up scum win if they manage to do Status today.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Even if it's Pine/Ramcius, they have 50% chance of victory at minimum if they miseliminate Status today, 1v1 me tomorrow again, and try to incriminate town!FL in final day.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If Pine is scum, not eliminating him today is the unique viable way for us to not have enough to eliminate both his most likely partners. Which is the the biggest reason for why i’m fighting for an elimination on him today and not believing in the "let’s not kill Pine yet" plan.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The unique way Pine's plan actually works in town favor is if we both hit scum today, and Pine is town, and if Pine is scum he of course isn't gonna agree with eliminating his partner today, so Status would be guaranteed to flip town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

tl;dr if pine is scum it always work in his favor to miseliminate status today, it goes from 0% chance of winning to 50% chance of winning the game if his partner is in FL/Ramcius.

[Mistyx]

so norwee

how do you feel about a ramicus elim then

[Pine]

Pine's buddy is Ram. jjh927 specifically told me to say that the deb strongman does not rule out a Pine/FL team. It indicates with some fairly weak setup spec that it's not Pine/FL, but it's not conclusive owing to this being weak setup spec

I do not believe JJH endorsed that. Full stop.

JJH is asking me why you don’t believe he said that.

Because that suggests a Strongman with only a 1-shot Doc in the setup.

Bull

Shit

[Mistyx]

Okay you know what

The strongman doesn't matter

It's all WIFOM and no one's going to convince anyone

Drop that point, all of you

[Pine]

Like, are we really saying red herring > Occam's Razor?

Are you listening to yourselves?

[NorwegianboyEE]

It wouldn’t be awful but i strongly prefer Pine.

[Pine]

Okay you know what

The strongman doesn't matter

It's all WIFOM and no one's going to convince anyone

Drop that point, all of you

You're not going today.

Ramcius isn't going today.

I'm not going today.

Akarin is confTown.

Nancy is obvTown.

I don't think votes exist for a Flavor Leaf elim, and would fight it tooth and nail.

I feel a no-elim is a massive mistake.

Of the remaining choices, thestatusquo is mechanically a better choice.

[Mistyx]

Ramcius isn't going today.

I'm not going today.

I disagree on these two points

[NorwegianboyEE]

Because that suggests a Strongman with only a 1-shot Doc in the setup.

1 shot strongman with 2 protective JOATS.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why didn’t you count Flavour?

[Mistyx]

Why didn’t you count Flavour?

because thats in the condition that its a pine/fl team

can you answer my question