Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Also I think I'm changing my mind on elements and that they aren't a good d1 elimination anymore.

[VP Baltar]

his lack of solving effort.

Dude, I have posted a full reads list that is very clear and I've done far more to advance the game than you have. That's indisputable.

Meanwhile, I bring you live coverage of RLotus' game prior to trying to walk out some fabricated BS on me:

Scum
Italiano

[VP Baltar]

RTP - help me here. Am I falling into the same toxic bullshit that I got into with Taylor? I'm trying to be reasonable here, but I have a hard time when people are clearly selectively picking posts.

[Green Crayons]

Umm I suppose he could throw one of his partners in there as well. The behavior looks bad + his lack of solving effort. I'm not necessarily trying to put the whole puzzle together at this point, as it were.

fair enough on not trying to solve, but it was an initial problem that came to mind when i read his posts with my Baltar!scum goggles on

i'm not seeing the AI that can be gleaned from taking these posts altogether. several posts are him having conversations about game events/players, which is productive even if not in itself AI. there's a couple of "what do you think about X" posts, which isn't damming but certainly would be if that was the majority of his play.

i hear you on him not really leading the charge on folks outside of Dunn, but i'm not seeing how that's AI when he's got these side conversations about other players/events. doesn't seem to be a lack of solving effort in my view, just that you read his effort as suspicious.

[Green Crayons]

You are taking advantage of the scumreads other people have rather than solving the game on your own. The easiest example to see is your absolute lack of progression of RTP. You kinda just were not talking about them then suddenly you scumread them after BM puts a vote there. Also, you looked willing to do the same with elements and myself. That's what is scummy.

I'm curious: did you have problems with Baltar's play before his RTP vote, and that was the last straw and so you laid out this case against Baltar, or did his RTP vote bother you so you went to go back and look to see if there was something suspicious about his play, and that's when you saw these problems that led to your long post?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

RTP - help me here. Am I falling into the same toxic bullshit that I got into with Taylor? I'm trying to be reasonable here, but I have a hard time when people are clearly selectively picking posts.

i dont know but everyone needs to take a step back right now bc this isn't helpful.

can you post an updated reads list for me? preferably with some reasoning.

RLlotus, you too since i havent seen much in terms of reads from you.

[Green Crayons]

i'm rereading 869

then i'm rereading this page

and i'm wondering if lotus is town here, for the sole reason of "is scum really *this* tone-deaf?"

can you explain this reaction to 869?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Also I think I'm changing my mind on elements and that they aren't a good d1 elimination anymore.

This is like due to recent elements interactions -> something I think I am seeing but don't have the votes to help get it through it feels because it feels people are too scared to go that way.

[Green Crayons]

hellooooooooooooooo i'm here do i really have to read 12 pages?

someone give me cliff notes. who are we wagoning?

It's a fast read. There is some thread spam you can move quickly through

alright, caught up to this point and just want to say


Baltar lies

[VP Baltar]

RTP - help me here. Am I falling into the same toxic bullshit that I got into with Taylor? I'm trying to be reasonable here, but I have a hard time when people are clearly selectively picking posts.

i dont know but everyone needs to take a step back right now bc this isn't helpful.

can you post an updated reads list for me? preferably with some reasoning.

RLlotus, you too since i havent seen much in terms of reads from you.

I've signed off my computer and I'm back on my phone, so I probably won't post a full list tonight, but I can get this up tomorrow.

You're probably in my some reservations, but not into yeeting category. I think your response to pressure has come off townie.

I still need to read this exchange you had with GC.

Also waiting for maxwell to catch up so I can get a read on the Harumi slot. Elements fell some for buying a bad argument from duchess without reading it closely.

Duchess is I don't even fucking know. It's a stupid level of aggression that would just be terrible scum play, but I have zero experience with them. Lotus and Duchess feeding off each other's garbage isn't great, but could be just the blind leading the blind like Taylor and whoever that other person was in our shared game.

[VP Baltar]

hellooooooooooooooo i'm here do i really have to read 12 pages?

someone give me cliff notes. who are we wagoning?

It's a fast read. There is some thread spam you can move quickly through

alright, caught up to this point and just want to say


Baltar lies

Haha, sorry

[Green Crayons]

the vibe i'm getting from duchess' 989 is town who gets super fixated on things that are important to them, then gets frustrated when other people don't see it that way / don't pay attention to same details and mistake that for scum

how are you slotting this as town rather than NAI?

[Andresvmb]

"there's scum pushing italiano, if italiano flips town these people are +scum" while not actually getting to any conclusions who it is and why. though i admit this is way too surface-level than i'd like, so i'll reread/reskim his iso again Soon(tm) and see what i find.

I need to read (I’m doing that now so give me like an hour or two to update all of my reads), but it’s really hard to pinpoint exact Scum on a wagon for a player you think is Town yeah? I may think I’m decent but that’s quite the ask. Here it’s probably a player that’s in the background. So if I had to take an early guess, I would say RLotus is maybe more likely than you are to be Scum upon an Italiano Town flip.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hi andres - i eagerly await your input.

[RLotus]

Why is that taking advantage you ask? I don't know. I made a comment on what I saw taking place. Duchess has been an absolute shit to me as well recently, so clearly I wasn't just making this up out of thin air, but rather pointing out a pattern of behavior. In said shitfest from Duchess, there is a post where I point out that faked aggression can come from scum who mistake bravado for scum hunting.

It's not that specific action that is so blatantly taking advantage. In fact, I was leaning you town for interactions like this. But, when this is a repeating pattern of you pushing slots that are easy to push and are already under fire, it looks opportunistic. Well when I say push I mean sitting on the sideline throwing shade, egging it on, without ever really coming to a conclusion.

He says I'm "gauging interest" on IVD here. Cool story, except I was clearly asking andres for a reason: Understanding his thoughts and positions on the key topic of the game at that point: Duchess v. GC

The follow up posts ARE LITERALLY RIGHT THERE IF YOU DON'T CHERRY PICK:

Hm yeah I probably misread the context here, I can buy that it was apart of a conversation and not trying to push IVD.

Like, duh. do you understand anything about using rhetoric? I'm directly jabbing at Italiano there. Am I not allowed to find a response by Italiano to be scummy because I'm not working the wagon as my primary source? This is nonsense.

He even says me pressuring Italiano is scummy in this post!

In post 546, VP Baltar wrote:
Italiano, can you respond specifically to this contradiction Lotus has highlighted around your own views of your scum ability?


It's fair to say I'm not pursuing Italiano as my main at that point, but I'm assisting in pressure to a what I saw as a good point. If Lotus really believes Italiano is scum (as he tunneled all game), this point is nonsensical. Particularly when I don't see him scouring pages for every time someone applies pressure to a wagon they are not actively on. Again, this is cherry picking. It also selectively ignores posts like 417 and 430 and 436 and etc where I'm actively pushing on Italiano on my own.

This isn't hard to fact check. I went to my ISO and ctrl+f'ed "Italiano". I actually talk about him a decent amount.

Again, it's not poking IVD that is scummy in itself, it is that you are throwing shade at a slot that was under fire and never really coming to a conclusion. As if to egg it on.

[Andresvmb]

Yeah I mean my nulls haven’t done anything to warrant movement. Harumi and testa fell off the face of the earth, dunn and elements lurks as usual.

I will say i did waiver on my andre townlean, because reading testarossa town is absurd to me, but I liked his explanation on how he goes about day 1s, felt towny.

And yeah I’m pretty much fixated on Italiano for now

Defeatism isn't towny. Yall are letting him off way too easily. At most that post should be NAI.

I’m not sure how I feel about this. Lotus you’re very critical of Italiano’s AtE and defeatism, but up until this point (I’m not fully read up so give me some room here), you haven’t commented on the fact (as far as I can tell) that Elements had

repeatedly

self-voted, leaving them at null. I think that’s interesting.

[RLotus]

his lack of solving effort.

Dude, I have posted a full reads list that is very clear and I've done far more to advance the game than you have. That's indisputable.

Meanwhile, I bring you live coverage of RLotus' game prior to trying to walk out some fabricated BS on me:

Scum
Italiano

Yes you posted a reads list after I criticized you for not trying to solve the game, and I believe being prompted by someone else to make one.

Also, I don't want this to get too emotionally charged, but it's either disingenuous or an oversight on your part to summarize my gameplay with a simple post where I put Italiano as a scum read. You must have missed the several detailed accusations I made of him and held my conviction on him and kept generating content around that slot. Furthermore, I made a post about a strong townread I had, RTP, with detailed reasoning. And, obviously my push on you.

Now, for the reads that you have shown the most conviction on.

Dunn- Scum because he is lurking
RLotus- scum because he is bad faith pushing on me

Shallow.

[Andresvmb]

Meh. I need to move my vote.

I’ll sit here for now.

VOTE: RLotus

[RLotus]

Meh. I need to move my vote.

I’ll sit here for now.

VOTE: RLotus

Have you finished catching up?

[RLotus]

You are taking advantage of the scumreads other people have rather than solving the game on your own. The easiest example to see is your absolute lack of progression of RTP. You kinda just were not talking about them then suddenly you scumread them after BM puts a vote there. Also, you looked willing to do the same with elements and myself. That's what is scummy.

I'm curious: did you have problems with Baltar's play before his RTP vote, and that was the last straw and so you laid out this case against Baltar, or did his RTP vote bother you so you went to go back and look to see if there was something suspicious about his play, and that's when you saw these problems that led to your long post?

Initially, I read these side questions/him pushing people from the side as towny. It wasn't until his interactions with BM did I realize that he kept poking at slots without trying to solve them.

i'd do elements today if we could get a majority

I'm listening. What are you seeing?

Also is dunn at E-1 now?

there is a distinct lack of progression in RLotus' ISO. Started with townreads on RTP and Duchess...and they remain the top 2 townreads. and has been only really focussed on Italiano since a few days ago.

I have been thinking this as well. It is very one dimensional.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RTP

Down2Clown

This series of posts in particular

[Andresvmb]

Meh. I need to move my vote.

I’ll sit here for now.

VOTE: RLotus

Have you finished catching up?

Not completely. But VPB sounds like Town to me, and your push there seems bad (around 869). If you flip Scum I would flip RTP too actually. You guys seemed overly aligned there for a bit. If VPB is onto something, he’s being sidelined in a rather aggressive way.

[Andresvmb]

RTP is pushing {GC, Elements}, and you RLotus are pushing {VPB, ItalianoVD} while leaving Elements at null and attacking some of the “lurker” slots. Somethings not right. I would gamble Datisi is siding somewhat incorrectly? But is maybe too transparent with their logic and reads for Scum. I also thought Battle Mage was Town and don’t understand the discredit there from RTP.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Meh. I need to move my vote.

I’ll sit here for now.

VOTE: RLotus

Have you finished catching up?

Not completely. But VPB sounds like Town to me, and your push there seems bad (around 869). If you flip Scum I would flip RTP too actually. You guys seemed overly aligned there for a bit. If VPB is onto something, he’s being sidelined in a rather aggressive way.

excuse me?

[Andresvmb]

This game man. I honestly feel I’m flip flopping a bit hard since I had RTP as my top TR but I feel like Koba would maintain their SR of my slot instead of beginning to reverse it just because I expressed positive feelings there. Where’s the stubborn self-confident Koba I know?

[RLotus]

Meh. I need to move my vote.

I’ll sit here for now.

VOTE: RLotus

Have you finished catching up?

Not completely. But VPB sounds like Town to me, and your push there seems bad (around 869). If you flip Scum I would flip RTP too actually. You guys seemed overly aligned there for a bit. If VPB is onto something, he’s being sidelined in a rather aggressive way.

Hum well I guess it would be natural for you to have paranoia about me bussing now