Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[ItalianoVD]

I've been keeping up with thread off and on today. I'd like for us to be able to end this day ASAP because I think we all need a break. I feel like I've caught on to something with RTP and feel like maybe there was possibly some theatre involved, but then again maybe I'm being unreasonable. I don't really feel like it right now, but I'll look at your iso and interactions again. But it looks like a lot of people can/will compromise for midway. Midway is a slot I haven't felt good about since he replaced in. I don't know about Elements, I'ma bit torn there, I can hammer if it gets to that point. Anything to end this day, but I generally feel the best about eliminating midway.

VOTE: midwaybear

I'm off to bed. I'll holla at y'all later.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh my bad, I mixed up midway with maxwell. I think people were compromising on maxwell not midway. But come on, we keep disintegrating these wagons just to run up another one to do it again.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I've been keeping up with thread off and on today. I'd like for us to be able to end this day ASAP because I think we all need a break. I feel like I've caught on to something with RTP and feel like maybe there was possibly some theatre involved, but then again maybe I'm being unreasonable. I don't really feel like it right now, but I'll look at your iso and interactions again. But it looks like a lot of people can/will compromise for midway. Midway is a slot I haven't felt good about since he replaced in. I don't know about Elements, I'ma bit torn there, I can hammer if it gets to that point. Anything to end this day, but I generally feel the best about eliminating midway.

VOTE: midwaybear

I'm off to bed. I'll holla at y'all later.

what made you not feel good about midway. how did you feel about lunar martian?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

btw been lurking thread the past hour or so, was just watching cause I didn't wanna consume the thread with my presence since ive been extra active the night before and i wanted to give others a chance to talk more (i literally have 1/5th of the posts in this thread)

[Andresvmb]

Which brings me to Andre who was seemingly trying to take advantage of town's division. His stubbornness when chatting with RTP and I gave me a bad initial vibe. It seems like he is deadset on scumreading the two of us rather than even entertaining that we are town. Some people just do this (me at times), but the impression I got from him in the last game I played with him is he spends a lot of time weighing both scenarios. Another thing is I get the impression that he pops in, does his due diligence to stay soemwhat townread, and dips out. As if he is maintaining his image rather than trying to solve the game.

Just, no. How am I trying to take advantage of Town’s division? This is a complete nonsense argument. I have NOT been stubborn about RTP. I think you’re purposefully attaching yourself to RTP here, since they’re always going to attract more attention than you and are far more likely to piss other players off. But I have been very much oscillating on my read on RTP and that is completely obvious. Like what a horrendous way of portraying my play.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

Btw I really do think Lotus is just Scum here.

can you just trust that we can sort that more in the long run - if they stay alive for a while they will show their colors more obviously - i do trust they are newer.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

im leaning town there - at the very least if they are scum they're pocketing me and i like having the extra vote

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I've been keeping up with thread off and on today. I'd like for us to be able to end this day ASAP because I think we all need a break. I feel like I've caught on to something with RTP and feel like maybe there was possibly some theatre involved, but then again maybe I'm being unreasonable. I don't really feel like it right now, but I'll look at your iso and interactions again. But it looks like a lot of people can/will compromise for midway. Midway is a slot I haven't felt good about since he replaced in. I don't know about Elements, I'ma bit torn there, I can hammer if it gets to that point. Anything to end this day, but I generally feel the best about eliminating midway.

VOTE: midwaybear

I'm off to bed. I'll holla at y'all later.

what made you not feel good about midway. how did you feel about lunar martian?

btw i dont mean this as a "i think you're scum" kinda question - i mean it as a "hey lets dissect your thought process bc I disagree" kinda question.

[RLotus]

Which brings me to Andre who was seemingly trying to take advantage of town's division. His stubbornness when chatting with RTP and I gave me a bad initial vibe. It seems like he is deadset on scumreading the two of us rather than even entertaining that we are town. Some people just do this (me at times), but the impression I got from him in the last game I played with him is he spends a lot of time weighing both scenarios. Another thing is I get the impression that he pops in, does his due diligence to stay soemwhat townread, and dips out. As if he is maintaining his image rather than trying to solve the game.

Just, no. How am I trying to take advantage of Town’s division? This is a complete nonsense argument. I have NOT been stubborn about RTP. I think you’re purposefully attaching yourself to RTP here, since they’re always going to attract more attention than you and are far more likely to piss other players off. But I have been very much oscillating on my read on RTP and that is completely obvious. Like what a horrendous way of portraying my play.

In the conversation about RTP before you were indeed being stubborn about them. Recently yeah you've flipped so that read is void now

[Andresvmb]

Btw I really do think Lotus is just Scum here.

can you just trust that we can sort that more in the long run - if they stay alive for a while they will show their colors more obviously - i do trust they are newer.

Honestly? No, I think you’re giving RLotus the benefit of the doubt because they’ve defended you, and you got sensitive about the attacks you’ve been getting from Battle Mage, but for example I don’t think Elements flips Scum (so why in the world would I compromise there), and I don’t really think VPB makes any sense right now (if anything I think that’s one slot that makes a lot of sense to wait on, and I’m TR’ing right now). Maxwell printed basically the same reads I have (so that seems entirely silly to me), so where exactly do you want me to vote?

[ItalianoVD]

what made you not feel good about midway. how did you feel about lunar martian?

Spoiler:

Sorry midway as much as you’ve looked like town, you’ve replaced into a slot that I feel/felt is scum. Lunar was playing very different than the two games I played with him. As a townie, even on day one, way more involved and none of those goofy one liners and short answers.

[Andresvmb]

But the way you are pushing onto me seems like you aren't giving me a fair shake, like you are confident. This is why it feels bad to me, like you are pushing me for an agenda reason rather than actually trying to evaluate me. Why don't you express deliberation if you aren't sure, rather than attacking everything I post at you?

I have disagreed with basically every major action and push you’ve made this game. And I’ve explained why. I really don’t care how you feel about my slot or if it makes you think I have an agenda. It is what it is. I have a whole view of the game, and you make a decent amount of sense to me as Scum. I don’t know if it’s exactly you, but I don’t really know what else to do.

[ItalianoVD]

btw i dont mean this as a "i think you're scum" kinda question - i mean it as a "hey lets dissect your thought process bc I disagree" kinda question.

Where should I be voting then? Get someone, anyone to E-1 and I'll hammer. Is that okay?

[ItalianoVD]

^That's not a troll, that's serious.

[RLotus]

But the way you are pushing onto me seems like you aren't giving me a fair shake, like you are confident. This is why it feels bad to me, like you are pushing me for an agenda reason rather than actually trying to evaluate me. Why don't you express deliberation if you aren't sure, rather than attacking everything I post at you?

I have disagreed with basically every major action and push you’ve made this game. And I’ve explained why. I really don’t care how you feel about my slot or if it makes you think I have an agenda. It is what it is. I have a whole view of the game, and you make a decent amount of sense to me as Scum. I don’t know if it’s exactly you, but I don’t really know what else to do.

So, your scum read of me boils down to disagreeing with my actions this game. Namely, my push on Italiano and then VPB, which you read them both town or not scum at least. Is that a fair summarization?

[Andresvmb]

But the way you are pushing onto me seems like you aren't giving me a fair shake, like you are confident. This is why it feels bad to me, like you are pushing me for an agenda reason rather than actually trying to evaluate me. Why don't you express deliberation if you aren't sure, rather than attacking everything I post at you?

I have disagreed with basically every major action and push you’ve made this game. And I’ve explained why. I really don’t care how you feel about my slot or if it makes you think I have an agenda. It is what it is. I have a whole view of the game, and you make a decent amount of sense to me as Scum. I don’t know if it’s exactly you, but I don’t really know what else to do.

So, your scum read of me boils down to disagreeing with my actions this game. Namely, my push on Italiano and then VPB, which you read them both town or not scum at least. Is that a fair summarization?

Somewhat. I think your arguments against VPB for example were bad (VPB went through them in detail and generally speaking I agree - you stated multiple times that they weren’t trying to solve for example which just rang like a generality and false), and your tunnel of Italiano (which you admitted but more recently seem to have backed off somewhat) just didn’t feel right to me. And since I’m TR’ing Elements and I know my alignment, I can’t say I think you’re Town.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I don't see how lunar has been scummy - can you explain?

i've played with votato a lot - learning that the slot was votato actually clarified my read there.

[Andresvmb]

I don't see how lunar has been scummy - can you explain?

i've played with votato a lot - learning that the slot was votato actually clarified my read there.

That was so early and they just posted some reads flatly and then got replaced. Why are you so sure of that read? I don’t know if this is meant for me (probably Italiano) but I’m mighty confused as to why you’re holding on to that read so hard.

[RLotus]

But the way you are pushing onto me seems like you aren't giving me a fair shake, like you are confident. This is why it feels bad to me, like you are pushing me for an agenda reason rather than actually trying to evaluate me. Why don't you express deliberation if you aren't sure, rather than attacking everything I post at you?

I have disagreed with basically every major action and push you’ve made this game. And I’ve explained why. I really don’t care how you feel about my slot or if it makes you think I have an agenda. It is what it is. I have a whole view of the game, and you make a decent amount of sense to me as Scum. I don’t know if it’s exactly you, but I don’t really know what else to do.

So, your scum read of me boils down to disagreeing with my actions this game. Namely, my push on Italiano and then VPB, which you read them both town or not scum at least. Is that a fair summarization?

Somewhat. I think your arguments against VPB for example were bad (VPB went through them in detail and generally speaking I agree - you stated multiple times that they weren’t trying to solve for example which just rang like a generality and false), and your tunnel of Italiano (which you admitted but more recently seem to have backed off somewhat) just didn’t feel right to me. And since I’m TR’ing Elements and I know my alignment, I can’t say I think you’re Town.

First, I will say I do think VPB was indeed not trying to solve the game up until a point sometime after I made that read of him. Later it became apparent that he was trying to figure people out, put the game together. Admittedly, I was too locked in on him to notice. I don't know if you are fully caught up but I did say this.

Anyhow, I'm going to be blunt with you. I know on day 1 I am certainly not batting 100 at finding scum. Every read of mine will not be correct. You said the same thing about yourself. I do not think that scum reading people because they have reads you disagree with and scum read people you find town is an effective strategy at finding scum.

I know we had a brief discussion about this before, but I highlight this because I do not think we are going to find a middle ground because of this difference in opinion.

[RLotus]

First, I will say I do think VPB was indeed not trying to solve the game up until a point sometime after I made that read of him.

Eh, I should clarify and say he did not appear to be solving the game.

[maxwell]

couching an attack as "don't understand" + "not sure I like" = fence sitting. it isn't a full commitment to the attack.

this is a weird thing to bring up. did Duchess and I even argue over it? I don't recall doing so.

That seemed to be the cause of them accusing you of asking loaded questions. And I disagree with your assessment, it struck me as trying to make a great deal out of a fairly innocuous statement, one of the few things that stood out to me in my read.

uh my Elements and RTP reads aren't gradations of the same alignment. i'm reading Elements as on the town side of the alignment line, RTP on the scum side. so RTP asking why he is "below" elements = RTP asking why he's being scumread.

And i (1) answered that by linking to Post 462, which started my prior explanation for why i was reading RTP as scum--so, yes, I didn't repeat my reasons but I linked to them, and (2) simultaneously noted RTP's inaccurate projection of his own suspicious play onto my play (the notion that I was scumreading him only bc he FOS'd me)

I don't know, it again seemed more like you were invested in scoring points by "winning" an argument, so to speak, rather than trying to read alignment, and doing so involved pulling out of context quotes to score points on RTP, say they're projecting, I've just not felt that accusations you've thrown at them were believable.

not overly swayed by maxwell's case, in any direction. max, you read the full game yet?

That's fine, it's not really meant to be persuasive and I don't put full confidence in the read but it's what I have. I have read the full game, unfortunately I don't have anything revelatory to say at this time, I'd probably have to re-read it again to produce a solid readlist, not trying to use that as a stalling tactic, just a fact that the game, at this point, is long and confusing and reading 12 people over the span of a couple days isn't easy (when I've gotten reads off a replace in it's usually because I only had to sort something like half that number).

[ItalianoVD]

I don't see how lunar has been scummy - can you explain?

I did

Spoiler:

Lunar was playing very different than the two games I played with him. As a townie, even on day one, way more involved and none of those goofy one liners and short answers.

[Andresvmb]

I do not think that scum reading people because they have reads you disagree with and scum read people you find town is an effective strategy at finding scum.

Sure. But this is (again) mischaracterizing how I’m approaching the game. And you’re doing this a lot, frankly. I guess that’s the biggest reason I find you Scummy. You did this with VPB, you’ve done it to me, and you’ve done it with Italiano too. I am quite obviously trying to read through emotion as well (I’ve made multiple statements around this, and it’s obviously impacting my reads of Italiano and RTP), what I’m perceiving as sensible, honest arguments (I made this point about maxwell, I feel this way in a lot of instances when I’m reading Battle Mage, and I sense it coming from some of the discussions I’ve read from Elements and Datisi for instance), and I’m trying to make sense of positioning (which I’m noticing from you and actually, Green Crayons). If I was going to compromise anywhere, it would be there actually - I would vote for Green Crayons here too.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I don't see how lunar has been scummy - can you explain?

I did

Spoiler:

Lunar was playing very different than the two games I played with him. As a townie, even on day one, way more involved and none of those goofy one liners and short answers.

why do you keep spoilering your quotes?

also i dont think thats an effective way of reading votato?? ur talking to someone whos played more games with the person in question - as they were a bypassing banned user.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I don't see how lunar has been scummy - can you explain?

i've played with votato a lot - learning that the slot was votato actually clarified my read there.

That was so early and they just posted some reads flatly and then got replaced. Why are you so sure of that read? I don’t know if this is meant for me (probably Italiano) but I’m mighty confused as to why you’re holding on to that read so hard.

I have a certain confidence in reading that player - and midway has done nothing that pings me.