TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Bell]

VOTE: Agar

Wagon totally pure. Not locktowning Agar.

Q. Why this wording for voting Agar?

[AGar]

Why do you think Hopkirk would lie about something highly provable

Buying time is always pretty good for scum power. This is, idk, fucking basic.

maybe we should just give scum a list of nk targets at this point

Look who's talking, The very same person that insisted I should target outside of a 6-names list, thus giving scum 6 clear targets (well, 6 minus the number of scums in it).

Speaking of, who'd you target last night, scum? Not sure why we're just letting your ass slide by like a greased sled.

Agar specifically took something that was clearly intended between a joke and used it to try and start conflict between me/LLD – a TvT. Like it’s clearly just outright attempting to stir up issues between town

This is really the only thing worth addressing in here: I very specifically did not attempt to bring LLD into this. I very specifically only called you out for this because it was scummy as shit. Whether you think that means I think you're a dickbag is not relevant to me. Scum play to win this game, and derailing a strong town player is a strategy that is just as prevelant as players like Xtoxm simply not playing the game when they pull a scum role PM.

Also Keely has pointed out that a lot of your case revolves on me not trying to solve you via directly engaging with you. Newsflash: That's not really my preferred method and never has been.

hey agar what does your team think about your case, specifically the bit about the RC joke?

Well I'm never fucking listening to my teammates again.

(I have to ask them, Keely has mentioned that he thinks it's entirely possible Hopkirk is just high strung very incorrect town, but there's not much commentary beyond that)

UNVOTE:
VOTE: mastina

Oka, I am w/ you, despite how much I'm gonna die.

Also Bell brings up a good point in 4925 - I would hope someone voting me isn't "locktowning" me.

[jjh927]

So, you think it would be good scumplay for someone to claim something that would be disproven the following dayphase? And you believe this to such an extent as to call it "fucking basic"?

Tbh, I'd say that NOT doing things that will definitely get you elimed before the end of the game is fucking basic


Is it unreasonable for me to expect you to think things through a bit here? If it's a scum strategy then it's such an overwhelmingly abysmal scum strategy that it's still +town to let it play out, which is itself a reason why it's not a scum strat.

[Cephrir]

Buying time is always pretty good for scum power. This is, idk, fucking basic.

Have u heard of cost benefit analysid

[implosion]

40

Some Russians, Bulgarians, and Serbs believe that ghosts of the dead linger at the site of their death for forty days. After the forty days, additional prayers are performed at the grave (parastos (парастос) or panihida (панихида)), to escort the soul on its way to God's court.

Vote Count 3.5

AGar

(5): Hopkirk, Almost50, Xtoxm, Titus, mastina

Winter Flakes

(2): Cephrir, jjh927

jjh927

(2): innocentvillager, Winter Flakes

mastina

(2): OkaPoka, AGar

Not Voting

(2): Ythan, Bell

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Prodding Ythan.

[Ythan]

I guess I'll look at this AGar wagon.

[Winter Flakes]

I have decided to do grace you with a readslist but in a new format because I have decided that henceforth I will be either chumreading, ummreading, or scumreading people. I believe this system is self explanatory.

Chums

mastina
Xtoxm
Okapoka
Dannflor
hercule
DrippingGoofball
Winter flakes
InnocentVillager
Hopkirk
Almost50

Umms

Titus
LLD
Cephrir
Ythan

Scums

the worst
AGar
Dunnstral

Disclaimer: The categories of this readslist do not represent a level of confidence on any of these reads. Reads are not ordered by confidence. This is not actually a hard commitment to the CUS system because future me might decide it's stupid.

so jjh would you like to pretend to have any form of trajectory at all and give us some insight on what changed from here onward? because you dont bring me up in any meaningful way after this until i get voted by other people and you all of a sudden find me to be the most likely scum flip

[Winter Flakes]

like this definitely just reads as a vote/push of convenience for jjh rather than anything with actual substance behind it

i was of zero interest to jjh prior to getting voted by ceph or xtoxm (can't remember who specifically) said i'd be a good person to push on and now out of nowhere i'm the top suspect and best chance of a red flip.

also xtoxm interested as to why you found it so terrible that i "sheeped" a dead person (which btw ended up being the first vote on a wagon that elimmed scum) but you're not giving jjh any flak for sheeping when his literal only mention of me in his ISO was that i'm town? lmao

[OkaPoka]

wf what are your thoughts on mastina, more specifically:

Fair warning: will be fairly V/LA due to lifeguard training stuff. Can post right now tho, so...

No one ever fucking considered that scum might *gasp*

lie

.

To be fair.
I presented doubt towards Titus for that exact reason.

However.

This is a roleclaim that will literally be confirmed by another player. It's not something scum will lie about, especially not in the way Hopkirk did. The evolution of the claimed result was incredibly genuine.

VOTE: AGar

I'd actually prefer OkaPoka > Bell > AGar > WinterFlakes so AGar's not my first choice, but he's infinitesimally a better elimination than jjh and has a high chance of flipping scum, soooooooo.

are we going to ignore how bad this post is

lmao so mastina is playing politics

jjh is at 2 votes and iv just expressed apprehension about keeping his vote there - are you really claiming this agar vote has anything to do with jjh's wagon?

in fact

i agree mastina isn't a political player

she's just open wolfing

VOTE: mastina

no shot she votes scumread no 3 and tries to disguise it using jjh especially at this stage

[innocentvillager]

hi I’m here kinda

just moved in for the most part

no WiFi for now so data phone posting

[innocentvillager]

lmao so mastina is playing politics

jjh is at 2 votes and iv just expressed apprehension about keeping his vote there - are you really claiming this agar vote has anything to do with jjh's wagon?

in fact

i agree mastina isn't a political player

she's just open wolfing

VOTE: mastina
can you expand on this more? I’m dumb and can’t read between the lines
no shot she votes scumread no 3 and tries to disguise it using jjh especially at this stage

[innocentvillager]

when mastina says “AGar is an infinitesimally better elim than jjh” does she mean way better or barely better

I’m pretty sure it means the latter but that doesn’t square up with her stated reads really?

[innocentvillager]

oh wtf

@Oka I quoted those 3 and tried to ask you to expand on that bc I’m dumb and can’t read between the lines

[innocentvillager]

i feel like I can’t get inside AGar’s head so frankly I have no fucking idea how to read him at this point

hop seems convinced that the arguments are so wrong and twisted that they can’t be made in good faith ( I think)

I just tend to throw my hands up in the air when I can’t really get a grasp on their process and see it very nai but I’ll keep thinking I guess

[innocentvillager]

mastina I am gonna want to see some thoughts about the jjh wagon when you have time if you haven’t already given thme

[innocentvillager]

specifically reasons on town him lol bc again no one has been able to provide

[AGar]

Tbh, I'd say that NOT doing things that will definitely get you elimed before the end of the game is fucking basic

Do you really think Hopkirk was making it to endgame?

[OkaPoka]

oh wtf

@Oka I quoted those 3 and tried to ask you to expand on that bc I’m dumb and can’t read between the lines

Look at the gamestate when mastina voted AGar. AGar was at 4 votes and jjh was at 2, except AGar was also a building wagon and jjh had you expressing uncertainty.

So what mastina is basically saying is she wants to vote her third scumread rather than pushing me or bell because she is scared of jjh being eliminated? Mind you we had 10 days left on the deadline as well so this isn't a deadline thing. And we know mastina doesn't like playing politics, she explicitly said so d1 if you remember. So why is she putting AGar @ e2, scumread n3 with so much time left on the deadline? Well, I think it's because she's just trying to pull a fast one tbh, disguising it as 'protecting' jjh is extremely wolfy imo because its a lie. JJH doesn't need protection, she's not playing politics, she's openwolfing it.

[OkaPoka]

(it's a highly opportunistic vote and I caught her dead to rights for the opportunism because jjh thing, though it sounds good, is a lie if you think for more than a minute about it)

[Bell]

VOTE: Mastina

@Hopkirk, what's your opinion on Mastina?

[mastina]

jjh is at 2 votes and iv just expressed apprehension about keeping his vote there - are you really claiming this agar vote has anything to do with jjh's wagon?

It both does and doesn't.

jjh is definitely town here, like, 100% town here--I am absolutely sure of it. jjh dropped a sign that he is town that I very very very much do not want to out, but it is a surefire 100% guaranteed towntell here. (Even saying this much is too much imo, but when I said to trust me, it apparently wasn't enough. But I very damn well bloody mean that you need to TRUST ME HERE DAMMIT because jjh is definitely town.)

There is a jjh wagon--joining an alternative wagon helps alleviate the pressure on him.

But more than that.

I have three scumreads: OkaPoka (strongest), Bell (second strongest), AGar (third), with Winter Flakes in the backup if one of those is wrong. (Thus, Oka > Bell > AGar > Winter Flakes.)

However.

Do you see any votes for you, OkaPoka?
I do not.
Do you see any votes for Bell? I was, until my vote change, vanity voting there.

If I have three scumreads but there's a wagon on the third-strongest and absolutely zero votes on either my strongest OR second-strongest scumreads.

Why

wouldn't

I vote for the third-strongest scumread? It's still a scumread. It's not as confident of a scumread. It's not as assured of a scumread. It's a scumread with a higher chance of being wrong. But it's still a

scumread

, but just a weaker one.

I can thus, when switching, both state:
-It is a much, much, much better wagon than jjh, and,
-I would rather OkaPoka > Bell over it.

Because both are true.

[OkaPoka]

then you say that and not some bs about jjh

[mastina]

VOTE: jjh
pretty sure this is scum

I know for a 100% fact that jjh is not.

Right now my list of possible scum is something like titus, mastina, hopkirk (off limits today), jjh and you, and while I don't have the massive hubris to think I've caught everyone with that list, getting a handle on you would be helpful in narrowing things down

Well, jjh isn't scum and Hopkirk is off the table today.

So from the remainder you get 3 scum with reads on {Titus, mastina, Winter Flakes} and I know that at least one of those names is definitely town.

So there's a guarantee of a minimum of 1 scum being out of your readslist.

If Titus is town which I strongly believe she is, that's a minimum of 2 scum being outside your readslist.

So your possible scum list has at most 1 scum in it, quite possibly having none if Winter Flakes is town.

[mastina]

jjh is going down and down for me this doesnt look like his town game

It very very VERY much is his towngame.

gut is worried agar is obstinate town

Not impossible (he's my weakest scumread because of my paranoia of exactly that pretty much), but pretty much requires Winter Flakes to be scum, since there are, legitimately, only four possible scum candidates as of today, and with three scum left, if AGar isn't scum then the rest are by default scum.

[OkaPoka]

If I have three scumreads but there's a wagon on the third-strongest and absolutely zero votes on either my strongest OR second-strongest scumreads.

Why wouldn't I vote for the third-strongest scumread? It's still a scumread. It's not as confident of a scumread. It's not as assured of a scumread. It's a scumread with a higher chance of being wrong. But it's still a scumread, but just a weaker one.

this is the 'legitimate' reason for voting agar

but you didn't mention it, you chose to mention

I'd actually prefer OkaPoka > Bell > AGar > WinterFlakes so AGar's not my first choice, but

he's infinitesimally a better elimination than jjh

and has a high chance of flipping scum, soooooooo.

besides we aren't at deadline and you are compromising to go door no 3?