Mini Theme 2198: Animals Upick 2 [Game Over]

[Xtoxm]

Votecount 1.9

mastina(5)

~ April Ludgate, Korina, Rathe, Whemestar, Noraabear

Korina(2)

~ Smoke and Mirrors, mastina

Battle Mage(2)

~ PenguinPower, TheFuzzylogic99

PenguinPower(1)

~ Battle Mage

TheFuzzylogic99(1)

~ Superb Subtlety

Not Voting (2)

: Raya36, Mad Hatters Tea Party

With 13 alive it takes 7 to FLIP.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2021-03-07 15:12:44)

[PenguinPower]

So proud - this is a good mod

[Raya36]

Just notice all of the Rathe votes minus wheme have suddenly jumped on the BM wagon and I am not sure what to make of that

Well if we're going with Rathe is lhf and everyone moved to Battle Mage I guess we could come to the conclusion mafia are also fine with a battle mage elim.
UNVOTE:

That would imply mastina scum

I do think mastina is scum but I have enough doubt that I don't want to eliminate mastina D1 after her softclaims

Mastina’s currently a null for me. Can someone tell me why she’s scum here?

Her play has felt really weird and tonally off. I have noticed a few times she would post long contentless posts. The first half of 328 as an example. Also 411 really bothered me because it was a super long post avoiding my actual question. It felt like she was hoping I would take it for an answer and let her skate by without actually explaining that read. I also very much do not agree with her most recent readslist.

[mastina]

Oh I forgot to mention: reminder that I am V/LA and reminder that I am also depressed and don't truly want to post here but I feel obligated to in a moment like this where I can squeeze it in.

VOTE: penguinpower

(For the record I do think that BM v PP is TvT here--the push from Battle Mage looks town but PP's response to it also looks town in a way I don't think he can make if he were scum.)

[Raya36]

I don't like all this softclaiming of having such a super strong role. This isn't how town handles having a strong PR on day 1

It is when you know what the role is and the player handling it.

I can get away with softing it because scum can't do anything about it.

Claiming the role is sub-optimal D1, but it doesn't really matter

that

much--the play is mostly the same regardless of whether I claim it, don't claim it with softclaims, or don't claim it with no claims. I just prefer the middle option because I like to.

I guarantee that were I to claim you would know why I've said everything I have and agree with it, that everything I said was true, that there isn't MUCH of a difference between me claiming it and not claiming it, but that I am right in my assessment that while it doesn't matter much, claiming it on D1 is still notably suboptimal to not claiming it.

Plus, scum aren't gonna

actually

guess my role in spite of the softclaims. They can't. I am so confident that they can't guess my role that it allows me that freedom to softclaim all I like. I can be as blatant as I want with my soft; the scum still won't know what hits 'em until I fullclaim.

If you're scum and using this for survival then I'm fine with leaving you be until D2, but I still think you're scummy so maybe D2 would be a good day to claim considering it doesn't make much of a difference

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Oh I forgot to mention: reminder that I am V/LA and reminder that I am also depressed and don't truly want to post here but I feel obligated to in a moment like this where I can squeeze it in.

VOTE: penguinpower

(For the record I do think that BM v PP is TvT here--the push from Battle Mage looks town but PP's response to it also looks town in a way I don't think he can make if he were scum.)

I hope you feel better soon Mastina!

Here is a Koala Hug for you!

[mastina]

which means mastina and rathe wagons both on town. to revisit

It's possible rathe is town but rathe is a poe scumread of mine.

I realize rathe is LHF--but the poe is the poe.

Smoke and Mirrors are town by play and town by claim. Their play more recently is less town than I'd prefer, but their early play radiated town in a way I don't think is scum. Even without that, their role is one that I don't think is scum, and we have mod confirmation that it IS a real role. Or close enough. (The mod has confirmed the existence of koalawang being a game mechanic; the prizes for it aren't confirmed but the mod-confirmation of koalawang being a thing confirms the role, the details of the role are frankly irrelevant.)

Superb Subtlety are clearly town here--given my slight doubt in Smoke/Mirrors, I actually am thinking of backing them up. In many ways, they're the inverse to Smoke/Mirrors: instead of starting strong and degrading to 'okay', they started 'okay' and have gotten stronger and stronger later into the day.

WhemeStar's play has radiated town and his claim looks incredibly town.

Raya seems incredibly town by play, natural, at ease, reasonable, having good stances and opinions.

Mad Hatters Tea Party also has looked incredibly town the entire time, start to finish.

Noraabear's play could be scum, but I don't think it is; Noraabear's play overall looks town and the claim is also one that I think is town. Noraabear was dead on the money even if she insists she didn't have a real point when she said that the reactions in that area damn Korina because she handled that area in an incredibly town manner and Korina bluntly, didn't.

PenguinPower and Battle Mage are lesser townreads but still look more town than not.

Which leaves a POE of {TFL, Rathe, Korina, April Ludgate}. Of the four, TFL looks vaguely town albeit not enough to be a real solid townread.

So the POE is {Rathe, Korina, April Ludgate}.

I realize for D1 this is probably not a perfect solve, but perfect is the enemy of good and this is good enough of a solve for D1.

Feel like this is important enough to next-page.

[Raya36]

Superb Subtlety are clearly town here--given my slight doubt in Smoke/Mirrors, I actually am thinking of backing them up. In many ways, they're the inverse to Smoke/Mirrors: instead of starting strong and degrading to 'okay', they started 'okay' and have gotten stronger and stronger later into the day.

Can you explain what's clearly town about superb subtlety?

[Raya36]

Oh I forgot to mention: reminder that I am V/LA and reminder that I am also depressed and don't truly want to post here but I feel obligated to in a moment like this where I can squeeze it in.

Wishing you well

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: penguinpower

(For the record I do think that BM v PP is TvT here--the push from Battle Mage looks town but PP's response to it also looks town in a way I don't think he can make if he were scum.)

No! not TvT!

PP's response was to initially dismiss it because it was a limited sample (in my view, implying the observations were valid based on the evidence) and didn't count, and then tried to argue that the observations were not valid. It's inconsistent, clutching at straws, and in general PP's response to me has just been to ignore the game-related stuff and be more personal. The player is demonstrably capable of that as scum - I even referenced a game where that was the case. Would quotes help?

[mastina]

If you're scum and using this for survival then I'm fine with leaving you be until D2, but I still think you're scummy so maybe D2 would be a good day to claim considering it doesn't make much of a difference

I mean there's a chance I won't need to--if the mod confirms my claim publicly inthread for me, no need for me to do so.

It's not a surefire thing to happen, but there's a reasonably decent chance of it happening.

Superb Subtlety are clearly town here--given my slight doubt in Smoke/Mirrors, I actually am thinking of backing them up. In many ways, they're the inverse to Smoke/Mirrors: instead of starting strong and degrading to 'okay', they started 'okay' and have gotten stronger and stronger later into the day.

Can you explain what's clearly town about superb subtlety?

Well in short: dozens of dozens of games with jjh, but also: the later and later into the day we go, the stronger and stronger his play becomes. The early push on Korina was incredibly promising, and it is one that he clearly believed was good, and kept on going about.

The superb subtlety - smoke/mirrors bout was another thing that looked incredibly town. The needling and prodding from jjh was in a way that I don't think is from scum. The interaction was one that just evolved in a way that makes me think town. jjh has been consistently pushing people, and ironically, doing so in a way that's similar to you. Look at your iso and the way you've pushed people like Rathe. Then look at jjh's iso and see how he's pushed players, including Rathe. It's not identical but it is incredibly similar. If you're town as I am assuming, you should have a basic grasp on why your pushes look town, so apply that logic to jjh's pushes and it becomes more clear.

[Raya36]

If you're scum and using this for survival then I'm fine with leaving you be until D2, but I still think you're scummy so maybe D2 would be a good day to claim considering it doesn't make much of a difference

I mean there's a chance I won't need to--if the mod confirms my claim publicly inthread for me, no need for me to do so.

It's not a surefire thing to happen, but there's a reasonably decent chance of it happening.

Well, in that case if there is no confirmation of your role then I'd like you to claim D2.

Superb Subtlety are clearly town here--given my slight doubt in Smoke/Mirrors, I actually am thinking of backing them up. In many ways, they're the inverse to Smoke/Mirrors: instead of starting strong and degrading to 'okay', they started 'okay' and have gotten stronger and stronger later into the day.

Can you explain what's clearly town about superb subtlety?

Well in short: dozens of dozens of games with jjh, but also: the later and later into the day we go, the stronger and stronger his play becomes. The early push on Korina was incredibly promising, and it is one that he clearly believed was good, and kept on going about.

The superb subtlety - smoke/mirrors bout was another thing that looked incredibly town. The needling and prodding from jjh was in a way that I don't think is from scum. The interaction was one that just evolved in a way that makes me think town. jjh has been consistently pushing people, and ironically, doing so in a way that's similar to you. Look at your iso and the way you've pushed people like Rathe. Then look at jjh's iso and see how he's pushed players, including Rathe. It's not identical but it is incredibly similar. If you're town as I am assuming, you should have a basic grasp on why your pushes look town, so apply that logic to jjh's pushes and it becomes more clear.

Alright, I'll take that into consideration when reading the slot from here on out. Thanks for the explanation!

[TheFuzzylogic99]

out of game comment
@Mastina..... sorry you are having a rough time. I hope you will feel better soon



take care my good friend........

[Smoke and Mirrors]

where mastina declared immortality

Funny you should mention immortality given my role.
(I gave Krazy three picks, my first which he went with has a strong association with that word.)

VOTE: Mastina
this is town and anyone not agreeing with it will be looked at tomorrow after her green flip/scum shot.

Fixed that for you.

I don't like all this softclaiming of having such a super strong role. This isn't how town handles having a strong PR on day 1

It is when you know what the role is and the player handling it.

I can get away with softing it because scum can't do anything about it.

Claiming the role is sub-optimal D1, but it doesn't really matter

that

much--the play is mostly the same regardless of whether I claim it, don't claim it with softclaims, or don't claim it with no claims. I just prefer the middle option because I like to.

I guarantee that were I to claim you would know why I've said everything I have and agree with it, that everything I said was true, that there isn't MUCH of a difference between me claiming it and not claiming it, but that I am right in my assessment that while it doesn't matter much, claiming it on D1 is still notably suboptimal to not claiming it.

Plus, scum aren't gonna

actually

guess my role in spite of the softclaims. They can't. I am so confident that they can't guess my role that it allows me that freedom to softclaim all I like. I can be as blatant as I want with my soft; the scum still won't know what hits 'em until I fullclaim.

If anyone else votes there I will hold you personally accountable for what happens afterwards

I mean.

mastina(5)

~ April Ludgate, Korina, Rathe, Whemestar, Noraabear

The slot has my three scumreads on it in the order of strength on them (April > Korina > Rather strongest to weakest), plus a player who I initially scumread that's prone to OMGUS'ing and tunneling even if the player who scumread them later revisits that read and thinks it to not be true anymore (Noraabear); the only vote there which is clearly town and yet not easily explained is Whemestar.

which means mastina and rathe wagons both on town. to revisit

It's possible rathe is town but rathe is a poe scumread of mine.

I realize rathe is LHF--but the poe is the poe.

Smoke and Mirrors are town by play and town by claim. Their play more recently is less town than I'd prefer, but their early play radiated town in a way I don't think is scum. Even without that, their role is one that I don't think is scum, and we have mod confirmation that it IS a real role. Or close enough. (The mod has confirmed the existence of koalawang being a game mechanic; the prizes for it aren't confirmed but the mod-confirmation of koalawang being a thing confirms the role, the details of the role are frankly irrelevant.)

Superb Subtlety are clearly town here--given my slight doubt in Smoke/Mirrors, I actually am thinking of backing them up. In many ways, they're the inverse to Smoke/Mirrors: instead of starting strong and degrading to 'okay', they started 'okay' and have gotten stronger and stronger later into the day.

WhemeStar's play has radiated town and his claim looks incredibly town.

Raya seems incredibly town by play, natural, at ease, reasonable, having good stances and opinions.

Mad Hatters Tea Party also has looked incredibly town the entire time, start to finish.

Noraabear's play could be scum, but I don't think it is; Noraabear's play overall looks town and the claim is also one that I think is town. Noraabear was dead on the money even if she insists she didn't have a real point when she said that the reactions in that area damn Korina because she handled that area in an incredibly town manner and Korina bluntly, didn't.

PenguinPower and Battle Mage are lesser townreads but still look more town than not.

Which leaves a POE of {TFL, Rathe, Korina, April Ludgate}. Of the four, TFL looks vaguely town albeit not enough to be a real solid townread.

So the POE is {Rathe, Korina, April Ludgate}.

I realize for D1 this is probably not a perfect solve, but perfect is the enemy of good and this is good enough of a solve for D1.

@Mastina I don’t understand why your read on us is less strong because given my recent posting, I would expect the exact opposite, so can you explain this? I had some initial paranoia that you might possibly be setting us up similarly to MBoS but I obviously no longer think that’s the case but I still don’t understand why SS is currently stronger for you than us?

I also don’t understand why Korina is scum here?

[PenguinPower]

Yeah - I disagree with and don’t understand the wheme thing

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Back to the game.......

I dont like subtle reaction to my comment. It was not I was pushing just because of her vote. Hers and Penguin non-comment vote on their vote is bad and doesn't help town, I liked Penguin response which was rational and logical . Subtle was over the top and seemed overdramatic.

I think both Subtle and Penguin need to explain their vote on BM. If Power or Subtle is town not explaining their vote is being anti town imho.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Just notice all of the Rathe votes minus wheme have suddenly jumped on the BM wagon and I am not sure what to make of that

Well if we're going with Rathe is lhf and everyone moved to Battle Mage I guess we could come to the conclusion mafia are also fine with a battle mage elim.
UNVOTE:

That would imply mastina scum

I do think mastina is scum but I have enough doubt that I don't want to eliminate mastina D1 after her softclaims

Mastina’s currently a null for me. Can someone tell me why she’s scum here?

Her play has felt really weird and tonally off. I have noticed a few times she would post long contentless posts. The first half of 328 as an example. Also 411 really bothered me because it was a super long post avoiding my actual question. It felt like she was hoping I would take it for an answer and let her skate by without actually explaining that read. I also very much do not agree with her most recent readslist.

Which reads specifically? That list didn’t help me at all. I also don’t understand her tr me because mod confirmed role but practically locktowning slots who are questioning it.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

edit
They need to explain thier vote on every player as any player who is in town needs do in my opinion

[PenguinPower]

I think both Subtle and Penguin need to explain their vote on BM. If Power or Subtle is town not explaining their vote is being anti town imho.

My vote has been explained.

[PenguinPower]

Since when did towns get so needy?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Yeah - I disagree with and don’t understand the wheme thing

Missed this. Yes, I don’t understand why she tr him but sr Korina. I thought the way Korina claimed sounded really townie to me. He’s probably one of my top trs rn.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Superb Subtlety are clearly town here--given my slight doubt in Smoke/Mirrors, I actually am thinking of backing them up. In many ways, they're the inverse to Smoke/Mirrors: instead of starting strong and degrading to 'okay', they started 'okay' and have gotten stronger and stronger later into the day.

Can you explain what's clearly town about superb subtlety?

+1

They’re another null for me rn.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: penguinpower

(For the record I do think that BM v PP is TvT here--the push from Battle Mage looks town but PP's response to it also looks town in a way I don't think he can make if he were scum.)

No! not TvT!

PP's response was to initially dismiss it because it was a limited sample (in my view, implying the observations were valid based on the evidence) and didn't count, and then tried to argue that the observations were not valid. It's inconsistent, clutching at straws, and in general PP's response to me has just been to ignore the game-related stuff and be more personal. The player is demonstrably capable of that as scum - I even referenced a game where that was the case. Would quotes help?

Can you link/quote that again for me because I think I missed it? My experience with scum!Penguin is he pretty much does nothing but coast and he doesn’t seem to be doing that here.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Im always needy

[Raya36]

Just notice all of the Rathe votes minus wheme have suddenly jumped on the BM wagon and I am not sure what to make of that

Well if we're going with Rathe is lhf and everyone moved to Battle Mage I guess we could come to the conclusion mafia are also fine with a battle mage elim.
UNVOTE:

That would imply mastina scum

I do think mastina is scum but I have enough doubt that I don't want to eliminate mastina D1 after her softclaims

Mastina’s currently a null for me. Can someone tell me why she’s scum here?

Her play has felt really weird and tonally off. I have noticed a few times she would post long contentless posts. The first half of 328 as an example. Also 411 really bothered me because it was a super long post avoiding my actual question. It felt like she was hoping I would take it for an answer and let her skate by without actually explaining that read. I also very much do not agree with her most recent readslist.

Which reads specifically? That list didn’t help me at all. I also don’t understand her tr me because mod confirmed role but practically locktowning slots who are questioning it.

S&M, and SS as locktown
Penguin as a townlean
Fuzzy as null (I TR)
Rathe as a scumlean
Don't feel like Korina or April have done anything significantly scummy