TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[Aristophanes]

I did vote Ydrasse D1 which DV left out of his catch up

He thought Ydrasse was scummy enough to vote for her Day 1

...?

[Aristophanes]

My preferred vote for today would be Aristophanes because on the off chance he is town I'd rather make that mistake now and not in LYLO for obvious reasons.

This admits to a world where DV and I are both town, because if I am town the only way to mislim me in Elo, assuming your plan is followed, is for DV to also be town.

This statement is incongruent with your stated stance.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh I misread that, I thought DV said "He thought Ydrasse wasn't scummy enough to vote for her" mb

My assumption, Ari, is that the plan wouldn't be followed thru tomorrow bc xof and I seemingly disagree on Adorable vs DV

[xofelf]

I'll give more in a little bit(today has been a rollercoaster of *gestures vaguely* and a surprise computer) so I'm not fully here. I do want you to give a little more to DV's post if you can, Reck. Adorable has been in my PoE since Day 1, and a fair bit has been her interactions with Ydrasse, and Ydrasse flipping scum has not cleared Adorable for me either. She's still... doing some weird shit that I don't understand. She was someone Datisi and I talked at length about as was Ydrasse. I wanna go back over some of that when the first Ydrasse wagon fizzled, cuz I remember coming to some conclusion about what it meant re Adorable that is escaping me right this second. Like there's a possibility I've just had these blinders on all game, but they kept me focused on Ydrasse all game and I was right so *shrugs*.

DV just feels like he's being super stubborn, that's what it feels like more than anything else. Like sure, he could be wrong on it, but I don't think he's scum for making it. Even the parts that he forgot that Reck brought up, those just feel like the kind of thing DV would have forgotten about in a natural way. It just feels like an attempt at solid analysis and from the perspective of trying to solve this game so we win.

So for me, I wanna solve Ari and Adorable. But I wanna look at them before just yeeting them into the sun. I could see a world in which either of Reck or DV are the last and I am made of dumbs, but at the very least, I don't know that the flips we've had actually say much either way about either of you.

[Aristophanes]

Oh I misread that, I thought DV said "He thought Ydrasse wasn't scummy enough to vote for her" mb

My assumption, Ari, is that the plan wouldn't be followed thru tomorrow bc xof and I seemingly disagree on Adorable vs DV

xof likely dies tn if we MisLim, leaving (by your plan) either Reck/Ari/Adorable or Reck/DV/Adorable in ELo

It would be up to adorable in either situation, not xof

[xRECKONERx]

oh right xof would die, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I mean even in that situation I have no idea what Adorable thinks re: DV, basically the people who agreed to "the plan" would be gone (me n bulge mostly with a splash of xof for good measure)

Ari if you ARE town then my biggest fear is being set up to mislim you in endgame and throw the game away like, that's been eating away at me since you said it. My team is completely checked out of the game now, nobody's posted in our Discord in days and it has been like 10 days since anyone said anything about my game, and given certain things going on rn I don't really have the mental energy to reread anything atm.

weirdly enough trying to lim Ari today leaves me more vulnerable to being the final mislim actually tomorrow if Ari is town i think

[xofelf]

That's why I want to be very very careful before we do *anything*. Like, if we fuck up, I am definitely dead, no question. It's not nearly so easy as it appeared. The plan *is* good to look at a very specific pool, BUT we need to be very very careful in the shot that we take. And yeah, shit's on fire, so it'll be a little hard to have spoons for some of it. It's the top of my pile tomorrow to look over shit now that we have Ydrasse flip.

[Aristophanes]

Guys, I'm totally okay with us sitting on our hands for a week while other stuff is figured out. I mean it's not like this game is active anyway.

I promise that if you guys V/LA for it I will not vote until everyone is back.

[xofelf]

You'd best not or I will come up to Canada and kick you in the shins and FROWN at you.

[Aristophanes]

oh right xof would die, mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I mean even in that situation I have no idea what Adorable thinks re: DV, basically the people who agreed to "the plan" would be gone (me n bulge mostly with a splash of xof for good measure)

Ari if you ARE town then my biggest fear is being set up to mislim you in endgame and throw the game away like, that's been eating away at me since you said it. My team is completely checked out of the game now, nobody's posted in our Discord in days and it has been like 10 days since anyone said anything about my game, and given certain things going on rn I don't really have the mental energy to reread anything atm.

weirdly enough trying to lim Ari today leaves me more vulnerable to being the final mislim actually tomorrow if Ari is town i think

Interestingly, my team has been active and does have reads here, ones which you will not like in any conceivable universe.

If the two of us live through today for whatever reason, and the lim is on town, I need you no not quickvote me tomorrow.
I'm sorry I instilled the mislim setup as an anxiety but it's happening today/tomorrow if you let it and I can only do so much to stop this.

That's why I want to be very very careful before we do *anything*. Like, if we fuck up, I am definitely dead, no question. It's not nearly so easy as it appeared. The plan *is* good to look at a very specific pool, BUT we need to be very very careful in the shot that we take. And yeah, shit's on fire, so it'll be a little hard to have spoons for some of it. It's the top of my pile tomorrow to look over shit now that we have Ydrasse flip.

xof, I'm not saying this for pressure but the vote today probably hinges entirely on where you vote. When you have the time and energy, I hope you do some figuring out here. I'll be around to talk with you and help get to a conclusion whenever I can be.

[Aristophanes]

You'd best not or I will come up to Canada and kick you in the shins and FROWN at you.

Love you too xof <3

[Aristophanes]

I think that's the best threat I've ever gotten XD

[xofelf]

xofelf wrote:
That's why I want to be very very careful before we do *anything*. Like, if we fuck up, I am definitely dead, no question. It's not nearly so easy as it appeared. The plan *is* good to look at a very specific pool, BUT we need to be very very careful in the shot that we take. And yeah, shit's on fire, so it'll be a little hard to have spoons for some of it. It's the top of my pile tomorrow to look over shit now that we have Ydrasse flip.
xof, I'm not saying this for pressure but the vote today probably hinges entirely on where you vote. When you have the time and energy, I hope you do some figuring out here. I'll be around to talk with you and help get to a conclusion whenever I can be.

Oh I know that. 100%. I am *aware*. There's a duty with being seen as conftown, and I intend to do something with that.

It's gonna sound stupid but like, I may wanna like...... Schedule when I plan to do this so I can have the most of y'all around for it and maybe we can talk shit out live? Is that stupid/doable?

Also good, it was crafted just to you <3

[xRECKONERx]

per xof's request:

Okay I quite strongly believe that Reck is scum.

Approach to Ydrasse-slot:

- Reck consistently throughout the game throws shade at Ydrasse's slot but hardly ever does he actually

do anything

with it.
- He thought Ydrasse was scummy enough to vote for her Day 1. 1187, 1426, 2431 are all posts expressing feels about Ydrasse being scum. BUT in this time there is no actual consideration that Ydrasse may be worth eliminating. He doesn't do anything with this until voting her in the previous day phase when the tide was obviously turning against her. Bringing me too....

I'm not sure if it's unique to me feeling that way, but uh, every time I spoke up and said Ydrasse was pinging me funny there was an army of people it felt like shouting about how town she was for her blatant AtE. I tried to call attention to it, nobody bit on it. I outright warned people if Ydrasse got to L-1 I was snap hammering. Granted it wasn't really due to a scumread, it was due to me finding her fucking annoying as fuck to play with, and I stand by that. It's also because I constantly felt like Ari was the best elimination while I was feeling Ydrasse was our second best shot, I told people I would hammer and be down for an Ydrasse wagon if I couldn't get Ari, but it was hard as fuck to get anyone to stay focused anyway, I wasn't going to willingly kill momentum on my top suspect to go after Ydrasse, my second suspect.

Reck's Day 4 play makes no sense as town:

- Notable that in 2706 Reck supports Ydrasse's bad case on Ari. This is despite having thought Ydrasse suspicious for a large portion of the game, and not taking into account the problematic parts of Ydrasse's posting that I brought up in 2701.

I thought Ydrasse caught Ari scum slipping. I'm honestly still not convinced she didn't. It was such a very specific call out to point out someone would have too much knowledge and Ari's fuck up about Ydrasse absolutely read like someone who forgot they had more information than they should. It's entirely possible that Ydrasse was trying to bet the game on a bus on Ari here or something. Like thinking out loud here, I don't see why this couldn't have been a bus. Scum would have to know that Ari would be dead at some point as long as I'm in the game, and they know about the existing PRs, so they know that they can't waste a kill on me to get me off Ari's case. The only doubts you brought up in 2701 were that Ydrasse was "too sure". Ok great, why is that supposed to be a "problematic" part of it? I read it as someone feeling like they caught someone. Why is being sure of her read a reason to doubt her??

- And then Reck just.... votes Ydrasse... because the game seems simple... despite having expressed suspicion of Ari and me. Oh BY THE WAY, what is Reck's read of Adorable anyway. Was it really confident enough for him to willingly just elim Ydrasse because whatevs? Despite seemingly not really thinking her to be scum. Oh here's a quote

Honestly Adorable just kind of evaporated from me as a scum candidate and dropped off my radar at some point. Huh.

Hmmmmm

I voted Ydrasse bc the game seemed open and shut. I wrote Adorable off as scum a long time ago, for whatever reason. I can probably look back and find posts, but the odds of Adorable-scum seemed super low from about D2ish onwards. It's just play that is so bizarre I have a hard time seeing anything calculated behind it, and writing Adorable off was easier, esp with dead town having solid townreads on Adorable based on play. I still think the game is in the pool of you/Ari as the last buddy. Once I had that pool narrowed down and Bulge agreed it literally does not matter to me who goes when, the game is guaranteed over.

- And how does Reck go from strongly townreading me early in the game and fighting against my wagons to thinking I'm scum Day 4. It makes the early townread on me feel like posturing, especially with the completely bizarre line of posts that Reck uses to try and convince people that he thinks my posting is weird. Boo-hoo, he can't prove that my reasons for suspecting him are wrong? When can you ever disprove someone's reasons for suspecting you??? (Reck should know this) Why was this a thing?? How has it contributed to a change in read of me?

Well, you fell into the PoE. And we were mind melding a lot more early on in the game, which was the primary reason I was town reading you, along with your immediate unvote of RCE after the bad claim. I sort of filed you away and forgot and it wasn't until Hectic started listing "strong townreads" and I was sus of Hectic that I started to evaluate. I thought Hectic's reasons for townreading you were extremely flimsy, which subconsciously moved you outta the "will not touch bucket" for me. I thought your insistence on massclaiming looked really weird. You'll also note that I dropped a full catchup and reread of RCE in 2596, wherein I said if I'm pegging anyone for turbobussing RCE, it's you. This didn't come from "out of nowhere", my progression on you is there. Then you came out of the woodwork with the flimsy shitslinging at me because my team wasn't engaged which consciously moved you fully into the PoE for me. The rest of the claims we got also helped narrow it down as it confirmed Bulge's claim to me, which was something that was floating in my brain as a possible fake out the whole time.

Lastly, in what world does town-Reck ever think this:

hmmm good question, I think a couple townie sounding posts must have gotten to me earlier this evening, or my train of thought slipped the tracks at some point, because looking back now on the last 8 pages I read before posting earlier, I don't know what to tell you lol. DV's energy around Ari this phase reads to me like town with a confident townread, but I can't find whatever it is that prompted me to remove him from my PoE. I don't think he's scum with Ari, though, with the way they ran the massclaim. I didn't make it clear before but I'm down for an Ydrasse elim, and I haven't done any recent ISOdives or anything but from the events of toDay and what I can remember of earlier in the game, DV/Ydrasse doesn't sound all that improbable.

I feel you

I think we just yeet Ydrasse and then run down the list. Ydrasse's flip should clear something up either way though I don't really care what she flips I'm going to support a lim on Ari/DV tomorrow and it'll take a lot to sway me from that

My slot and Ari's slot had so much interaction with Ydrasse that it couldn't possibly not matter what Ydrasse were to end up flipping. Obviously Ydrasse's alignment was going to have some impact.

--

I think I am alone in thinking that reck is scum, but that's okay. I will keep posting about it until he is eliminated, or people say something convincing that doesn't amount to "reck feels town". (though I'll probably keep pushing Reck anyway because he's scum)

I mean, I didn't care what Ydrasse flipped, and I still don't? My point wasn't "well there's literally nothing to glean from an Ydrasse flip". My point was "whatever Ydrasse flips might add clear something up but it won't change my PoE pool at the end of the day". Like the PoE was you/Ari/Ydrasse, those were my three lims, the point of the PoE is that I believe there are two scum in that group of three. Why did you expect that to change if I am proven RIGHT on 1 scum?

[Aristophanes]

Oh I know that. 100%. I am *aware*. There's a duty with being seen as conftown, and I intend to do something with that.

It's gonna sound stupid but like, I may wanna like...... Schedule when I plan to do this so I can have the most of y'all around for it and maybe we can talk shit out live? Is that stupid/doable?

Also good, it was crafted just to you <3

That's definitely something we can do!

[xRECKONERx]

I can probably be around most nights just lmk when we all wanna pow wow

[xRECKONERx]

If the two of us live through today for whatever reason, and the lim is on town, I need you no not quickvote me tomorrow.

God fucking dammit

Yes, I can promise that if we mislim today I won't quickvote ANYONE tomorrow not just you

[Aristophanes]

If the two of us live through today for whatever reason, and the lim is on town, I need you no not quickvote me tomorrow.

God fucking dammit

Yes, I can promise that if we mislim today I won't quickvote ANYONE tomorrow not just you

Thanks Reck <3

[xofelf]

Okay so... not tonight.. Thursday night? I may post some more shit before then, but like... I'd love to have people actively around say......... 9ish EDT?

[xRECKONERx]

lol when I said "most nights" I was explicitly excluding thurs in my head cuz that's my weekly date night with the hubband

[xofelf]

Hahahaha. I can also do Friday.

I just know tonight is nope, and I want to give myself a couple days to dive in, maybe post in between.

[Aristophanes]

That should work for me

[xofelf]

Like, if y'all can also look at shit in the meantime, that would be great.

Also talk to your teams, will be trying with mine. We're real close to solving this completely. We could just be done with it today, let's make it happen.

[Adorable]

Here is the iso on Ari that looked suspicious to me. This will probably come out messy since I'm not good with multiquoting.

Sure, what's up?

What don't you like?

I've been talking with the team and well, I tihnk we've landed on an Ydrasse townread. Her posts are just too laid back in a lot of ways to be coming from scum, almost as if she's not worried about how she looks.

I get that she's a lot of filler fluff but there's also a lot there to work with and I don't think this is a game where filler fluff is a good idea for scum. I just don't really see it after looking at it with this in mind.

It shows here Ari is town reading Ydrasse with his team on day 2.

Deas is town. What can we do now with a tight time?

VOTE: Ydrasse?

Out of nowhere Ari votes Ydrasse on day 2 when he earlier put Ydrasse as town. There was two votes on Ydrasse on day 2 earlier and why vote Ydrasse at this point when the votes got switched to someone else?

Well that's a flip I didn't see coming.

Uhmm...what does it say about Bulge, both having Psychs?

Hectic was an outside scumread but still.
The recent deaths lwave {adorable, xof, ydrasse} which isna weird trio.
Ydrasse seems both likely and unlikely, the latter due to Hectic's flip.

Imma think on this.

This was after Hectic's death and I find this strange Ari said Ydrasse seems both likely and unlikely due to Hectic's flip when on day 3 Hectic said I am definitely not poe consensus and he slowly started to consider Ydrasse as poe.

@Aristophanes Are you even reading my iso or not? I have talked about xofelf so many times in past days and how many times do I have to keep repeating myself? xofelf's approach has been careful and cautious, they're not interacting much with the players, xofelf was evasive towards me on day 2 which was scummy, I also didn't like it when they said on day 1 their reads are gut reads because that can be an easy way for scum to throw out a read.

I even quoted you back on 1609 which was on day 2 I think it was I said I didn't know what to make of RCEnigma's iso of xofelf when he was asking them questions. On one of my completed scum games from another site before I got lynched with a wagon leading on me I did an iso of my scum buddy and this was for to make my scum buddy look town.

I have been consistent for the most part and I don't like it when players keep changing their reads because it confuses me and I have already had to deal with scum players before who change their reads so much.

This is all great and I appreciate the reiteration of the reasons for the read. I was basically asking why and if anything had changed, which it obviously has not. Thanks!

I don't think it's very common for scum to do that Iso strat and it's a lot of Wine which I don't think is worth reading into but I guess it's fine that you stuck with it. I was hoping for something more recent/relevant but so be it.

As for changing reads, I mean, uh...Like honestly I don't know what to tell you here. My reads have been fluid and have been evolving. It's a good sign from most players when that happens. Like , I'm sorry that it confuses you, honestly. And I'm sorry you scumread it due to past experience, just like the Iso thing. But like, I'm not changing reads in order to confuse anyone, and if anything it leaves me more open to scrutiny. If I hadn't changed these reads, I'dstill be null on xof, you and Ydrasse would still be town, Reck would be lockscum, as would Bulge, etc.
Like, is that a healthy gamestate? Is that really what towns should do??

I really don't like this at all tbh and I think you may be the best elim for today, all things considered.
Consider this a vote for you, which is more being placed officially yet such that massclaim can happen when more people finally get here.

This was on day 4 and why did Ari feel the need to be so defensive towards me? Ari has been changing his reads too much while I have been consistent on my reads and Ari said that I am the best elim for day 4 because of this. How is being consistent scummy?

i am vt, ari, where did you think i claimed at?

Honestly I don't know. I just thought you had claimed VT already.

The following I had redacted earlier:
"Honestly I wasn't expecting the mason claim from you xof, I was wrong. But this is good shit and takes one more slot out of consideration. It makes a lot of sense with your play

It's Adorable/Ydrasse but we need the final claim."

I'll chat with the team here but the claims make Bulge's seem legit and I really thought Reck was the mason but he's town regardless. DV is strongly town and Xof is obvtown. For me it has to be Adorable/Ydrasse.

Ari putting me in front of Ydrasse making it look like Adorable/Ydrasse instead of Ydrasse/Adorable is also suspicious. When scum makes a list of team pairings they would often put town on the left and their scum buddy on the right.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82679 In this game I linked where I was scum who made fake team pairing I literally put a town player on the left and my scum buddy on the right.

I'm to the point that I'm not sure what to do here.

Bulge and xof are off the table entirely. I'm obviously not including myself in the scumpool.

Out of DV, Reck, Ydrasse, and Adorable, it seems so obvious to me.
Reck was town enough I thought he was the Mason, as did just about everyone here. I know he's eligible for scum, but that's not something I ever see here.
DV could be scum I guess, but he's not even someone we should consider for today because he has been very towny throughout the game with his thoughts, input, questioning, etc.
Ydrasse has been scummy all game. Countless times I've had scumreads on her and I can find multiple examples of her being scumread by my team as well.

Ari said on day 4 Ydrasse has been scummy all game saying countless times you had scumreads on her and by your team but on day 2 you said you and your team mate had a town read on Ydrasse and I quoted this above earlier so what you are saying in this post is a lie.

[Adorable]

On day 1 after RCEnigma fake claimed vig DV and Reckoner both unvoted him and voted Ydrasse. I think it would make more sense for scum to not vote Ydrasse after RCEnigma's fake claim because if Ydrasse did get eliminated on day 1 then that would mean RCEnigma would have been outed on day 2 which would mean the last scum would most likely have to solo for so many days and this makes me think Ari is the last scum because of this. There were some posts Ari made that were really suspicious and I'll do an iso of them when I'm done with work since I'm on my work break right now.

Ari looks like the last scum to me because of this post and the iso I made. My team also agree with me.