Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Andresvmb]

@andre: how does your momrangal vote align with the fact you seem to be dead certain betting the game on scum in me/vpb

I’m going to say this one last time, and I really hope that this, as a general theme, just dies.

I will always try and execute the person I find has the highest chance of flipping Scum. Clear? Just because I feel quite certain that there’s 1 Scum among you and VPB, does not mean that I know for sure which one of you is Scum. I’ve said repeatedly throughout this game now that {VPB, Datisi, RLotus} contains one Scum, and that it needed to be narrowed down. Unfortunately, VPB has tied himself so closely to you Datisi that it’s still hard for me to completely differentiate between the two. But the push against Italiano was far more aggressive from you for example than VPB, who initially thought it was Town but joined later. And VPB’s softening stance as it pertains to Dunn is still puzzling to me coming from Scum.

[Andresvmb]

again, that is literally. how i play town. build a blocc, work with it. also i never voted for cookie monster?

I’ll also make this general point.

Voting isn’t the only way of influencing the game. If Scum was just going around voting everybody who was Town and avoiding their Partners, they would make it too easy for the Town. So nobody does that. I really find this to be obnoxious and an easy way to avoid accountability. You greatly attacked Cookie Monster’s claim, did you not? You can at least be upfront about that.

[Andresvmb]

I think I want an attempt at a solve from Datisi and VPB. A ranking, something. Something I can use to better understand what sort of universe you’re seeing.

[Andresvmb]

Look, I get it from your perspective. I don't quite agree with some of your characterizations of my play, but I'd be suspicious in your shoes. I really thought midway had to be the on-wagon scum, and I was totally going to rub your face in it today. Shoe is on the other foot now.

And btw, this, right here, is mostly why I would vote Datisi over VPB if forced to choose right now.

VPB and I have had very strong disagreements this game. But VPB is clearly recognizing that suspicions in his direction are at least sensible. Wrong from his perspective, obviously, and he has no reason to suggest otherwise, but reasonable. The amount of bad pushes at this point strongly suggest that a loud voice in the game is driving the Town straight downhill. If it weren’t the case, we wouldn’t have ended up on midway, not after how much I kept insisting it was wrong, and we sure as hell would not have executed Italiano after the wagon there died down.

[Andresvmb]

is there like, anything that you're finding actually scummy about my play or is it just ~*paranoia*~? what do you think about lotus' case?

Datisi, however, thinks it’s just paranoia but we should continue listening to them because, well, we’re SR’ing their play style and not really their content or something. C’mon now, this is absurd. You’re defending Momrangal who btw went from a SR to screaming Scum to me, and you seem to think that any potential suspicion thrown your way is just Town game throwing or Scum playing tricks. How can you at least not admit some responsibility for the shit situation we’re in right now? I definitely felt you were particularly obstinate yesterday about midway, in a rather nonsensical way. You basically suggested that a rather marginal case you had experienced in a different game applied here, instead of ignoring possibilities and focusing on what was most likely. And you know, at the very core, this is what Scum do. They throw out possibilities to distract and confuse, and stop focusing on the most likely.

[Green Crayons]

Momrangal who btw went from a SR to screaming Scum to me

what does this mean


what is the mom case?

[VP Baltar]

I think I want an attempt at a solve from Datisi and VPB. A ranking, something. Something I can use to better understand what sort of universe you’re seeing.

Sure, I can do this probably later tonight or tomorrow.

Like I said before, I'm trying to back off driving a little bit since I was wrong, but I do have thoughts on where I could be wrong.

[Andresvmb]

Because I could very well put an argument out there for example that in a game I played a long time ago, against a particularly skilled Scum Team, they all avoided every single Town wagon and shit push, and were impossible to figure out because of it. But all in all, big picture, how many games have you played where this is the case? Versus the amount of times you’ve seen Scum end up on Town and help push those executions along? It’s definitely more of the latter than the former. But of course, the easiest way of creating paranoia about Town players is to suggest that we’re in a game where the former is happening. That’s fundamentally what I’m seeing you do Datisi.

[VP Baltar]

That’s fundamentally what I’m seeing you do Datisi.

Tbf, Datisi said it just happened to him. It hurts when that's the case and certainly makes a person paranoid.

[Andresvmb]

Momrangal who btw went from a SR to screaming Scum to me

what does this mean


what is the mom case?

See my 2747. I also, looking back, didn’t like Battle Mage’s push on RTP. You’ll notice that RTP SR there, and then backed off because it seemed to be veering in a toxic direction. I think Scum definitely pushed RTP as well obviously, and Battle Mage was the more obvious proponent of it. Ultimately it’s a bit hard to figure out because they replaced out, but that’s part of it.

[Andresvmb]

That’s fundamentally what I’m seeing you do Datisi.

Tbf, Datisi said it just happened to him. It hurts when that's the case and certainly makes a person paranoid.

Yeah but what indication is there this game that this is what we’re seeing, exactly? Are you of the mindset that you, me, RLotus and Datisi are all Town? Because if you exclude maxwell from the pool (and give Green Crayons the benefit of the doubt from their claim for example), you have what... a Scum Team of {DGB, Dunn, Momrangal}? Does that seem like it makes sense?

[Green Crayons]

Momrangal who btw went from a SR to screaming Scum to me

See my 2747.

What am I leaving out? I asked you multiple times for the reasoning behind you SR me. The reasoning after your vote is the first time I can remember that you verbalized it. And it’s just so vague and nonsensical that it’s screams of bad faith. And do you just listen to whatever people tell you to do? Because that’s just a really bad way of covering a hammer for Town.

i still don't understand what 2754 means.

what does it mean that

mom went from a scum read to a screaming scum (idk what that is) to Andres?

is a screaming scum a scum that's screaming bad faith (pulling from 2747)? if so, i still don't understand what you're saying about SR to screaming scum to Andres.

[Andresvmb]

mom went from a scum read to a screaming scum (idk what that is) to Andres?

is a screaming scum a scum that's screaming bad faith (pulling from 2747)? if so, i still don't understand what you're saying about SR to screaming scum to Andres.

From a player I SR, but maybe wasn’t all that focused on, to a player I think will surely flip Scum. Screaming Scum as in obvious Scum.

[Green Crayons]

I also, looking back, didn’t like Battle Mage’s push on RTP. You’ll notice that RTP SR there, and then backed off because it seemed to be veering in a toxic direction. I think Scum definitely pushed RTP as well obviously, and Battle Mage was the more obvious proponent of it. Ultimately it’s a bit hard to figure out because they replaced out, but that’s part of it.

i'll reread BM entirely but i remember being on that vote and it feeling right

[Green Crayons]

mom went from a scum read to a screaming scum (idk what that is) to Andres?

is a screaming scum a scum that's screaming bad faith (pulling from 2747)? if so, i still don't understand what you're saying about SR to screaming scum to Andres.

From a player I SR, but maybe wasn’t all that focused on, to a player I think will surely flip Scum. Screaming Scum as in obvious Scum.

oh you're talking about how you were slotting her. sorry i wasn't following your phrasing. ty

[Andresvmb]

a Scum Team of {DGB, Dunn, Momrangal}? Does that seem like it makes sense?

It would mean they all avoided Italiano, but landed on various players that are possibly Town, and then two of them pushed midwaybear over the finish line while letting you and Datisi take the bulk of the blame. I’ll be honest, it’s actually not insane. But it also means that we need to execute correctly to maybe break the cycle a bit.

[Green Crayons]

since ive got your attention, why did you think you were the obv pick for the neighborhood?

[Andresvmb]

Elements (1): Battle Mage

Except Battle Mage ended on Elements, so maybe would have to look a little closer at that association and how strong that push was.

[VP Baltar]

Because if you exclude maxwell from the pool (and give Green Crayons the benefit of the doubt from their claim for example),

I'm not sold on maxwell and GC being town. I'm weighing the possibility momrangal is scum as well. Datisi could be.

Some combination of that with you as an outside dark horse seems like a reasonable combination.

If it is those first three (and I haven't checked their intergroup interactions to see whether that is true), that makes more sense on the RTP kill given they suspected all those slots at various times D1.

[VP Baltar]

Elements (1): Battle Mage

Except Battle Mage ended on Elements, so maybe would have to look a little closer at that association and how strong that push was.

I broke down BM's vote in my wagon analysis

[Andresvmb]

since ive got your attention, why did you think you were the obv pick for the neighborhood?

Datisi made a point about this, in that nobody needs to coerce me to get me to put content out there. But this is also true of VPB. So why VPB over me? Datisi seems convinced VPB is Town, but just looking at the objective facts, there are more indicators that would suggest that I’m Town here over VPB, I would humbly argue.

It just depends on what you prioritize I guess. If you’re worried about bringing in a sinister influence into the neighborhood (and Green Crayons you directly quoted this as a priority to you), would you suggest slots (DGB, Momrangal) where it’s really not obvious that they’re Town? And what makes Datisi think that you can get more out of them if they join the Neighborhood, when you can’t get them to share much already? Datisi clearly decided to ignore your stated concerns about what you wanted to do with your role. I just felt that given what you had said, you would look for the Towniest players in the game to bring into the neighborhood. I can’t square the choice of Momrangal with that.

[Momrangal]

I iz dead

Baltyyy

I think the hood is a standard hood. GC. seems to be keen use it as a conditional Mason thread which matches up with what he was saying here.

I still don't get a sense of pocketing from either end so yeah

They seem to be prett friendly for neighbors

[Andresvmb]

I'm not sold on maxwell and GC being town.

I had maxwell in my earlier solve. But I think Town is somewhat underpowered without what I think their role is, which is why I’m thinking they’re somewhat clear. I also think that the paranoia surrounding GC that RLotus and I expressed earlier could have easily resulted in a push for GC’s head. Unless maxwell and GC are aligned, does maxwell at this stage have much of an incentive to do that? They could have said absolutely nothing, and GC could theoretically have been pushed to execution. If GC is Town, at that point we’ve probably lost.

[VP Baltar]

I iz dead

Baltyyy

I think the hood is a standard hood. GC. seems to be keen use it as a conditional Mason thread which matches up with what he was saying here.

I still don't get a sense of pocketing from either end so yeah

They seem to be prett friendly for neighbors

Why are you appealing to me on this? I'm confused

[Momrangal]

I think today would be a good day for a mass claim I think. From a glance, we got most of the claims out already

Pedir: that's an answer to your question?