Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[Pyro]

I feel rather confident on Pyro being town, we had the same reads for the most part save for some variances. Paranoia there should not be tolerated, really.

[Pyro]

One last thing:

Fey had the exact same read on Starcrossed and was actually the one that got them to claim. Please don't be selective about your evidence that Fey is doing it while town but it makes me scum. Additionally, it's not me piggybacking off her read either - I was the first to suspect and push Starcrossed.

Nancy, please listen to Fey when she drilled into you over and over again that I was town. She's genuinely never been more sure I'm town in any other game (you can check)

[Pyro]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well, N2, Titus obviously thought Morty and Rick were my mason. N3 REK died because of role cop. N4, Koba outing the bus driver made them the #1 threat in the game. N5, Starcrossed claimed vig and Sarah gambit made it clear that scum thought I had a mason in the vts but I guess since they weren’t sure there wasn’t, they killed Fey, which probably wasn’t smart if Pyro is scum here but It’s obviously not you, Kid flip backs up Dunn’s even night claim, since we know bus driver is ungated. PB’s ISO is so townie it hurts plus strong anti associatives with both S & W/W & P. Kanna was right on Kid and she was even more confident on Clidd. In our mason discord, she was practically begging me to never elim Clidd.

There was no gambit by sara, you need to forget about that idea. There is no such thing as fakeclaiming mason lul

Dunn is odd night, and Kid doesn't back up his claim because Dunn claimed second.. Dunn backed up Kid, actually...

Sarah fakeclaimed mason because Titus thought there was a mason amongst the vt claims.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes exactly, why would Alisae have one even night role but no odd night anything? Sure it’s possible but in most games, you don’t have one without the other.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Fey died > you I think because I’ve made it clear from the getgo that I’m never eliming her, so scum maybe thought you were more pushable? Also no actual evidence of bus driver N5, since you reached your target. However, you were locktown after Sarah flipped.

If thats the theory you're running with, it makes Pyro seem more innocent because it is practically impossible for him to be able to turn on me. Someone else would have to scumread me for him.

I feel as if Star, Fey, and I were all similar levels of unpushable, even if you didn't townread us which is unlikely, our mech made us very likely town as well

Scum killed Fey > you for reasons and my working theory is, to frame Clidd, because VCA spews him town but the fact that apparently no bus drive occurred on N5 might also have been a factor. But we can go around in circles on this but only Titus will be able to 100% answer this right?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Last scum being either Dunn/Pyro rather than PB/clidd seems correct, which contradicts my PB/clidd/Sara PoE from a long ways back but i think it makes wayyyy more sense that the driver isn't clidd or Saudade/PB now

Well, PB/Clidd both have strong anti associatives with Krazy definitely. PB with with both S & W and W & P. The thing is why no bus drive last night?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well, N2, Titus obviously thought Morty and Rick were my mason. N3 REK died because of role cop. N4, Koba outing the bus driver made them the #1 threat in the game. N5, Starcrossed claimed vig and Sarah gambit made it clear that scum thought I had a mason in the vts but I guess since they weren’t sure there wasn’t, they killed Fey, which probably wasn’t smart if Pyro is scum here but It’s obviously not you, Kid flip backs up Dunn’s even night claim, since we know bus driver is ungated. PB’s ISO is so townie it hurts plus strong anti associatives with both S & W/W & P. Kanna was right on Kid and she was even more confident on Clidd. In our mason discord, she was practically begging me to never elim Clidd.

Oh to actually respond more to this post -- I agree that there were better nightkills than Star even if scum realized they were mason (which they really should have). DKKoba and Fey were both at least as valuable as Star.

What i mean though is, what is the point for pressuring Star to claim exactly? I believe Pyro did this far past when it was clear likely to everyone that Star was at least *important*. They were the only unclaimed player. So what's the idea behind it?

I didn’t have a hood with Fey though or you for that matter. Only Koba was a bigger threat than Starcrossed because of role.

If Dunn is scum, why couldn’t he have bus drove Starcrossed with Fey then and still killed them? He obviously doesn’t get any towncred for Starcrossed not dying. So, only reason that makes sense is that scum desperately wanted Clidd limmed > Kid, so why? Kid would have obviously been on Starcrossed last night and they still probably would have died, so it’s in scum!Dunn’s disadvantage to have killed Fey > Starcrossed because it clearly made Clidd look bad, which made him far more likely to be yesterday’s elim > Kid. Like I know Titus has a rep for being moonlogicky but killing Fey > Starcrossed is seriously dumb if Dunn is last scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Kanna and Nancy at least have mentioned that Pyro wouldn't point out townslips or possible masons or whatnot when it's better to keep his mouth shut as town.. but in a game I moderated, Pyro blurted out that he had noticed a dead gunsmith's inno crumb.. when Pyro was a commuter and that was his last chance to draw a nightkill -- so that was kind of a mistake in the same category. I wouldn't discount the possibility just yet.

Can you elaborate on this some more since I obviously lack context? Thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Honestly, I would never talk about masons openly as scum, it looks very scummy on a surface level. I was seriously scumreading Starcrossed and thought if they were town, it was exactly as a mason- Pooky and Kanna were simply not talking to Nancy enough in thread and it meant they were scum or a Mason. I thought scum though which is why I kept talking about it and honestly just wanted a claim because I was like 70/30 on it

What else... oh, after the vig claim, I was sure Starcrossed was a mason because there wasn't enough room for 2 masons + a vig being alive, and it didn't explain why they weren't talking to Nancy in-thread. I played along with the vig claim though

Why then did you ask me yesterday if there was both a vig and a mason in this game? I don’t understand what you mean by this? Starcrossed wasn’t avoiding me at all, nor did I instruct them (or REK for that matter) to do that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

[/quote="In post 6846, Pyro"]Kanna's post actually infuriates me and I'm not even sure why, maybe it's the confidence

To quickly address the points:
1) Mason hunting theory is ridiculous. You were absolutely mason or scum to me very early on, and if I were scum, I would've killed you very early on. I thought you were scum or mason from lack of motivation to post in-thread and I was leaning scum (partly because of a tinfoil reason I can't talk about). My scumgame is not one where I openwolf and hunt for masons openly. I play it safe and aim to look towny, and appearing to hunt for masons is very scummy on a surface level

5) Gonna go to this point next just to emphasize on how contradictory it is with 1). I've played "conventionally" and done nothing to stick my neck out, but I've also been openly mason hunting at the same time? And pushing and casing people is not conventional/safe, I've cased several people this game whenever I've been feeling it (including clidd, War and Peace, Sarah)

I've explained 2 and 4

Regarding 3) This is just a "you disagree with me on a read so you're scum"
clidd's early playstyle was evey reminiscent of his scumplay in Ultimate Conspiracy. Strong takes and opinions, but not much reasoning - that's why I cased him. Since then, his play has improved with more solving and yesterday, I wasn't sure who scum was because I didn't believe in anyone being scum. clidd was in the PoE but eh basically

Finally, regarding the Fey kill: I absolutely, absolutely do not kill Fey

first

out of the Morning/Starcrossed/Fey pool of conftown, and you can theorize all you want that it technically doesn't matter when it comes done to final 3, but I never ever make that kill first.

Having Fey alive in final 7 and final 5 when I'm scum and she's been screaming I'm town all game is so incredibly valuable, and no amount of WIFOM would make me make that kill going into final 7. From your perspective, it's a possibility scum!Pyro does it for WIFOM - but I'm just being honest with you, I never actually do. I don't value WIFOM very highly in practice, and usually opt to make the logical kills which benefit me most in gamestate

(still love you btw, Kanna <3)[/quote]

You do realize that both Kanna, Pooky and me were heavily discussing all of this in the mason Discord right? What Kanna was super confident on is we should never lim Clidd. She was convinced that he was town by play and that both Fey and Tweetie was mech cleared because of bus driver.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway:

clidd is town because Sarah was seriously trying to push for him to be killed over her in final 9, ot would essentially be scum TMIing on her partner if clidd was scum regarding the whole Krazy push reasoning, and I believe Sarah is smarter than that

Additionally, I bothered to look back and Krazy was onboard and encouraging killing clidd *after* Nancy had in the launch pool and was voting him

Finally, his play yesterday really seemed to hinge on the game ending with KidAmn's death - I think he genuinely believed in it and it doesn't feel like he's playing with a plan in mind for endgame

Pink Ball;
Sarah stated that he was town for a "trust tell level replace out from Saudade" and I think scum!Sarah actually believes in that and it's TMIing him town.
His interactions with Nancy upon replacing in were very genuine and appeared in good faith, and his tone has been excellent

Morning Tweet;
Bats are evil, this could be the serial killer but this is a problem for final 3

Dunny;
The last wolf! I don't want to list the reasons because I don't want Dunny to try and refute them while they're in lazy bullet point form

I'll get to it, dw

Seriously, why does scum!Tweetie hang out Sarah to die like she did? Remember she claimed to have targeted her and thought she got switched with Koba. Sarah unlike Clidd, basically never responded to her message. So I’d really like to know why you would think Tweetie would treat a buddy like that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

One last thing:

Fey had the exact same read on Starcrossed and was actually the one that got them to claim. Please don't be selective about your evidence that Fey is doing it while town but it makes me scum. Additionally, it's not me piggybacking off her read either - I was the first to suspect and push Starcrossed.

Nancy, please listen to Fey when she drilled into you over and over again that I was town. She's genuinely never been more sure I'm town in any other game (you can check)

I had her as locktown for many reasons: She was mech cleared by role claim, obvtown by play, very clear anti associatives with all 3 flipped scum, plus I thought Titus was extremely unlikely to draft her, etc.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway:

clidd is town because Sarah was seriously trying to push for him to be killed over her in final 9, ot would essentially be scum TMIing on her partner if clidd was scum regarding the whole Krazy push reasoning, and I believe Sarah is smarter than that

Additionally, I bothered to look back and Krazy was onboard and encouraging killing clidd *after* Nancy had in the launch pool and was voting him

Finally, his play yesterday really seemed to hinge on the game ending with KidAmn's death - I think he genuinely believed in it and it doesn't feel like he's playing with a plan in mind for endgame

Pink Ball;
Sarah stated that he was town for a "trust tell level replace out from Saudade" and I think scum!Sarah actually believes in that and it's TMIing him town.
His interactions with Nancy upon replacing in were very genuine and appeared in good faith, and his tone has been excellent

Morning Tweet;
Bats are evil, this could be the serial killer but this is a problem for final 3

Dunny;
The last wolf! I don't want to list the reasons because I don't want Dunny to try and refute them while they're in lazy bullet point form

I'll get to it, dw

Seriously, why does scum!Tweetie hang out Sarah to DRY like she did? Remember she claimed to have targeted her and thought she got switched with Koba. Sarah unlike Clidd, basically never responded to her message. So I’d really like to know why you would think Tweetie would treat a buddy like that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

For Tweetie to actually be scum here, Titus would have had to have her deliberately set up Sarah for towncred post-flip, so unless you’re theory is that scum had already decided Sarah was going down anyway and wanted to guarantee Tweetie the towncred for making her look really really bad, I don’t see how she’s possibly ever scum here?

Because Sarah not responding to Tweetie’s clue was a major factor for her being elimed. I think that is indisputable.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also when Krazy townlocked Sam for posting that scummy kitty pic, Noraa debunked it. Also, it’s hella unusual for one scum to push another scum’s read to get [them] out of [their] head.

But why does scum!Noraa contradict the reason for him locktowning Sam?

[Dunnstral]

I mean, it's not me and I was thinking of following what fey was pushing today instead of going on her tr

Nancy, tweetie can't be scum because she's a messenger, and the last scum is a bus driver

[Dunnstral]

The thing is why no bus drive last night?

We killed kidamn so there was no reason to bus drive

[Nancy Drew 39]

Vig should kill

Clidd or

Ircher

or Saudade.
Clidd has high chances of being scum

Ircher flip is filled with juicy info

Saudade keeps distracting Nancy

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't want W&P to claim

remove us from vig targets thx

No. Your death is beneficial to town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sam how are you?

Spoiler:

Sam just hardclaimed town

-S

Sam also posted that gif in booney where she was scum

[clidd]

I don't get what Morning is doing/saying. It looks robotic and not very gamesolving, but from what I understand the slot is mechanically town, so I will ignore those impressions.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

Pyro missing how my plan to clear Kid was faulty and also hand-waving the "Even-night" problem are both kind of odd. Of course, I agree the Fey kill was quite agiven for scum to make.

I suppose if you want to explain the bussing [disclaimer: not entirely sure but i am under the impression Pyro bussed at least War and Peace hard] -- the bus driver is the scumteam's most important member, after all. Perhaps it wasn't by chance.

I am inclined to agree with the deceased mason off the bat here, but we'll see what happens

I wasn't aware whether scum were multitasking or not, 2 versus games ago they were, last one they weren't

I looked through the rules and it didn't seem to be stated whether or not they were, so your plan would've cleared KidAmn if they weren't (which I was hoping for). It then got clarified they were though and Alisae publicly told us.

Regarding the even-night thing: Whenever you as scum claim something, you have the option to add a odd/even3night modifier to it. I know I myself and others have tacked on one of those when fakeclaiming as scum, and in many of those instances, the modifier itself doesn't have anything to do with the setup or playing around 1 specific role, it just soemthing to nerf the role's power level/a decision to balance it and make it look realistic by scum

So, although it would be an interesting coincidence if Dunny was actually an odd night doc after KidAmn claimed even night Rolestopper, it's entirely possible scum!KidAmn just got lucky that they happened to claim even night and not odd night, and that it lined up with Dunny's claim

It'd be somewhat lucky and coincidental, but they happen. And I wasn't confident regardless of flip yesterday btw, you can probably tell from my play that I didn't REALLY believe in anyone flipping scum, but just thought KidAmn was our best bet

I've felt

confident

on scum at 2 points during this game; once on War and Peace which made me case them until Nancy would listen to me and get them out. And secondly on Sarah, after she claimed to have thought War and Peace may have been a mason, which I absolutely did not believe and expressed many times, but that one required less convincing since most people seemed sold

I am now as confident on Dunny being scum as I was in either of those two instances

Kanna's post actually infuriates me and I'm not even sure why, maybe it's the confidence

To quickly address the points:
1) Mason hunting theory is ridiculous. You were absolutely mason or scum to me very early on, and if I were scum, I would've killed you very early on. I thought you were scum or mason from lack of motivation to post in-thread and I was leaning scum (partly because of a tinfoil reason I can't talk about). My scumgame is not one where I openwolf and hunt for masons openly. I play it safe and aim to look towny, and appearing to hunt for masons is very scummy on a surface level

5) Gonna go to this point next just to emphasize on how contradictory it is with 1). I've played "conventionally" and done nothing to stick my neck out, but I've also been openly mason hunting at the same time? And pushing and casing people is not conventional/safe, I've cased several people this game whenever I've been feeling it (including clidd, War and Peace, Sarah)

I've explained 2 and 4

Regarding 3) This is just a "you disagree with me on a read so you're scum"
clidd's early playstyle was evey reminiscent of his scumplay in Ultimate Conspiracy. Strong takes and opinions, but not much reasoning - that's why I cased him. Since then, his play has improved with more solving and yesterday, I wasn't sure who scum was because I didn't believe in anyone being scum. clidd was in the PoE but eh basically

Finally, regarding the Fey kill: I absolutely, absolutely do not kill Fey

first

out of the Morning/Starcrossed/Fey pool of conftown, and you can theorize all you want that it technically doesn't matter when it comes done to final 3, but I never ever make that kill first.

Having Fey alive in final 7 and final 5 when I'm scum and she's been screaming I'm town all game is so incredibly valuable, and no amount of WIFOM would make me make that kill going into final 7. From your perspective, it's a possibility scum!Pyro does it for WIFOM - but I'm just being honest with you, I never actually do. I don't value WIFOM very highly in practice, and usually opt to make the logical kills which benefit me most in gamestate

(still love you btw, Kanna <3)

Anyway:

clidd is town because Sarah was seriously trying to push for him to be killed over her in final 9, ot would essentially be scum TMIing on her partner if clidd was scum regarding the whole Krazy push reasoning, and I believe Sarah is smarter than that

Additionally, I bothered to look back and Krazy was onboard and encouraging killing clidd *after* Nancy had in the launch pool and was voting him

Finally, his play yesterday really seemed to hinge on the game ending with KidAmn's death - I think he genuinely believed in it and it doesn't feel like he's playing with a plan in mind for endgame

Pink Ball;
Sarah stated that he was town for a "trust tell level replace out from Saudade" and I think scum!Sarah actually believes in that and it's TMIing him town.
His interactions with Nancy upon replacing in were very genuine and appeared in good faith, and his tone has been excellent

Morning Tweet;
Bats are evil, this could be the serial killer but this is a problem for final 3

Dunny;
The last wolf! I don't want to list the reasons because I don't want Dunny to try and refute them while they're in lazy bullet point form

I'll get to it, dw

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

I'm saying this more for Pyro's benefit, honestly! I don't want him to get scumread in the game I really, really think he's town.

I feel rather confident on Pyro being town, we had the same reads for the most part save for some variances. Paranoia there should not be tolerated, really.

One last thing:

Fey had the exact same read on Starcrossed and was actually the one that got them to claim. Please don't be selective about your evidence that Fey is doing it while town but it makes me scum. Additionally, it's not me piggybacking off her read either - I was the first to suspect and push Starcrossed.

Nancy, please listen to Fey when she drilled into you over and over again that I was town. She's genuinely never been more sure I'm town in any other game (you can check)

Alright, thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean, it's not me and I was thinking of following what fey was pushing today instead of going on her tr

Nancy, tweetie can't be scum because she's a messenger, and the last scum is a bus driver

Tweetie is obviously not scum because she hung Sarah out to dry and unless Titus actually wanted Sarah elimed, why would Tweetie treat her buddy like that?

What do you mean? Titus never voted a single scum all game, are you suggesting that Clidd is the one exception?

[clidd]

I mean, it's not me and I was thinking of following what fey was pushing today instead of going on her tr

Nancy, tweetie can't be scum because she's a messenger, and the last scum is a bus driver

So you have no reads + do you interpret Pyro as town pushing you?