Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[Pyro]

Okay, first things first: The case isn't on Dunnstral. It's on Morning Tweet. I initially stated it was on Dunnstral for reactions from the table, and they've been relatively useful. It's the bat though, she's played a really damn good game and the mech has been applied perfectly to make her look conftown, but there's an obvious explanation for why she's the last scum and damn, Morning, you almost got away with it. But not with PYRO on the case.

Spoiler: here's the case

pranked

[Pyro]

Anyway, let me know when you wanna see it. I'm not presenting to an empty table smh

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy: Thank you for reconsidering and finding that vanilla cop thing!

I was initially convinced it was you but yeah, I’m like a dog with a bone, if evidence exsts, bank on I’ll be the one who probably stumbles on it.

While I do think PB’s point is obviously valid, it’s extremely obvious that Krazy wanted to be rolestopped. He also wanted PB vanilla copped but was extremely insistent on having Morty and Rick be. so while it’s obviously possible that you self-targeted with M & R, Krazy arguing so hard for M & R to be vanilla copped makes me think it’s obvious possible but is it likely? Krazy obviously was pushing for a slot he wanted dead vanilla copped, so why bother with any of it because of bus driver?

I’m sure that pretty much the last thing scum wanted N2 was to show their bus driver. I still don’t understand why Koba got notified they targeted Toog as opposed to just getting a straight up vt result though.

[clidd]

clidd, do you still drink coffee while winding down to do some solving? I miss your old mentions of that.

(I'm doing it now as we speak)

Yes, I do (less often now), but I stopped mentioning when I'm drinking. I don't remember exactly why, but it was probably just a habit that I unconsciously lost.

[clidd]

WHERE IS EVERYONE

I REQUIRE GOOD COMPANY, IMMEDIATELY

[Pyro]

Ah, I feel much more at ease now

[clidd]

Anyway, let me know when you wanna see it. I'm not presenting to an empty table smh

Your case is still about Dunn and Morning was a joke or just the explanation of your case on Morning was a joke but are you still going to present a case about scum!Morning?

[Pyro]

@Nancy: Thank you for reconsidering and finding that vanilla cop thing!

I was initially convinced it was you but yeah, I’m like a dog with a bone, if evidence exsts, bank on I’ll be the one who probably stumbles on it.

While I do think PB’s point is obviously valid, it’s extremely obvious that Krazy wanted to be rolestopped. He also wanted PB vanilla copped but was extremely insistent on having Morty and Rick be. so while it’s obviously possible that you self-targeted with M & R, Krazy arguing so hard for M & R to be vanilla copped makes me think it’s obvious possible but is it likely? Krazy obviously was pushing for a slot he wanted dead vanilla copped, so why bother with any of it because of bus driver?

I’m sure that pretty much the last thing scum wanted N2 was to show their bus driver. I still don’t understand why Koba got notified they targeted Toog as opposed to just getting a straight up vt result though.

Also, I claimed VT while knowing there was a vanilla cop, and they easily could've checked me any of the nights. That's pretty stupid to do as a bus driver.

[Pyro]

Anyway, let me know when you wanna see it. I'm not presenting to an empty table smh

Your case is still about Dunn and Morning was a joke or just the explanation of your case on Morning was a joke but are you still going to present a case about scum!Morning?

It's about Dunny, Morning is a bus driver at heart, but not in this game.

[clidd]

Sounds good, although I'm semi-paranoid about you.

Not because you're scummy or something like that, but because of the quality of your scumgame + for what Kanna said.

But if you're town, I should be able to see that today.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy: Thank you for reconsidering and finding that vanilla cop thing!

I was initially convinced it was you but yeah, I’m like a dog with a bone, if evidence exsts, bank on I’ll be the one who probably stumbles on it.

While I do think PB’s point is obviously valid, it’s extremely obvious that Krazy wanted to be rolestopped. He also wanted PB vanilla copped but was extremely insistent on having Morty and Rick be. so while it’s obviously possible that you self-targeted with M & R, Krazy arguing so hard for M & R to be vanilla copped makes me think it’s obvious possible but is it likely? Krazy obviously was pushing for a slot he wanted dead vanilla copped, so why bother with any of it because of bus driver?

I’m sure that pretty much the last thing scum wanted N2 was to show their bus driver. I still don’t understand why Koba got notified they targeted Toog as opposed to just getting a straight up vt result though.

Also, I claimed VT while knowing there was a vanilla cop, and they easily could've checked me any of the nights. That's pretty stupid to do as a bus driver.

Pooky thought you were a PT cop because of the mason or scum thing.

[Pink Ball]

Sorry to ask this, just paranoia hitting: what's all the evidence we actually have about the existence of a bus driver? Just the list, no analysis

[Pink Ball]

Oh, right, Koba knew it was Toog.

That's still odd, but ok I'll take it as Koba wasn't making a gamble or something.

[Pink Ball]

Moving on

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sounds good, although I'm semi-paranoid about you.

Not because you're scummy or something like that, but because of the quality of your scumgame + for what Kanna said.

But if you're town, I should be able to see that today.

Clidd’s so very obviously town and he’s 100% not wrong about your scumgame either but innoing Clidd seems extremely counterintuitive here if it’s you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh, right, Koba knew it was Toog.

That's still odd, but ok I'll take it as Koba wasn't making a gamble or something.

Sarah being switched with Koba N4 and obviously Morty and Rick dying despite KidAmn RSing them but yeah mainly Koba, so bus driver - not strongman. However my 1 shot vig on Krazy would have overrode everything including both bus driver and role stop.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah it definitely is. I really want an explanation for this post-game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway, let me know when you wanna see it. I'm not presenting to an empty table smh

Your case is still about Dunn and Morning was a joke or just the explanation of your case on Morning was a joke but are you still going to present a case about scum!Morning?

It's about Dunny, Morning is a bus driver at heart, but not in this game.

But seriously wtf was that even about? She’d have to be double stacked to be bus driver in this game.

[Pyro]

Sounds good, although I'm semi-paranoid about you.

Not because you're scummy or something like that, but because of the quality of your scumgame + for what Kanna said.

But if you're town, I should be able to see that today.

I'll take it as a compliment <3

[Pyro]

Anyway, let me know when you wanna see it. I'm not presenting to an empty table smh

Your case is still about Dunn and Morning was a joke or just the explanation of your case on Morning was a joke but are you still going to present a case about scum!Morning?

It's about Dunny, Morning is a bus driver at heart, but not in this game.

But seriously wtf was that even about? She’d have to be double stacked to be bus driver in this game.

Have you seen Morning drive a bus irl? She's completely insane with the drifts and wheelies she pulls off. It's hard to believe until you actually see it

[Pyro]

A comprehensive guide on why Dunnstral is scum

SMITHING WITH GUNS

I'm an odd-night doctor

Night 1 was skipped

Night 3 I was on Starcrossed

I didn't get any kind of notification that I was redirected

Because of my role I thought that Kidamn's claim was very believable (it was claimed before the rolecop could do anything, too)

I argued against mafia having a doctor, but my own role and the vanilla cop claim made me think the gunsmith claim was more believable as well

Dunny claims odd-night doc in this post, stating that his own role and the vanilla cop claims made the gunsmith claim

more

believable.

I immediately question him on this - a gunsmith is a strong role, and to believe an odd night doc + even night rolestopper exist to create a follow the cop scenario to protect the gunsmith is very dubious. It's so much town power if you account for those 3 roles + the vanilla cop + the vig + the night skip + 2 or 3 masons. It's absolutely ridiculous from a balance standpoint. Remember, people were doubting War and Peace's claim because they thought a gunsmith + just the even night rolestopper may have been too dangerous of a combo, and Dunny has this information about his own role, and it makes him believe the gunsmith

more

, and not less.

There's a very simple explanation for why Dunny didn't think of how this was far, far too much power for town to have - and it's because he's scum with War and Peace.

I immediately question him on this, doubting how he could believe what he did:

you thought both protectives with an ungated gunsmith made the gunsmith claim more believable?
you didn't think that was too much power?
also what do you mean the vanilla cop claim made you think the gunsmith was more believable as well?

Vanilla cop carries a gun. i.e. false guilty
Doctor is a role that never has a gun, which is why I thought gunsmith felt believeable (even though I'm town and don't have a gun, it made sense to me that I'd be made to look suspicious for being doctor with a gs in the game)

I argued against mafia having a doctor, but my own role and the vanilla cop claim made me think the gunsmith claim was more believable as well

this makes no sense to me Dunny
you really need to explain why you thought two protectives that can cover all nights made you think the gunsmith was MORE believable and not less

Roleblockers, strongmans. And especially the day vig flipped. I think that was after the claim though, but I was thinking about that

He responds by saying scum could have a roleblocker/strongman. Scum

could

have these things, but even with them, town have far too much power at their disposal. I eventually pushed out War and Peace using this same logic. I'm very confident that town!Dunny does not see all this power and think it makes sense because scum

could

have certain roles, and because a gunsmith can get a false guilty on a vanilla cop, and a false inno on a doc, and ignore the glaring reasoning about how it creates a follow the cop scenario and how it's far too much power.

WAR BUT ULTIMATELY PEACE

This is all before any gunsmith claims:

97 - Dunny votes for WP
379 - WP have 3 votes and Dunny goes to vanity vote Sherlock instead (this is safe because they aren't a realistic wagon by any means right now)
404 - VC
486 - WP have received 2 more votes and are now at 4 with no real counter, Dunny moves back to vote them
535 - VC
657 - VC
770 - Dunny unvotes WP
1961 - WP are his SECOND TOP scumread

I'm not even going to try and assign an exact scum motivation behind this behaviour, but one thing is for sure, it's not natural and normal. Dunny is constantly shifting on and off the War and Peace wagon, and every single one of the votes are naked without any reasoning attached. This is scum!Dunny positioning himself on/off the wagon based on whether he wants to bus, and unvoting when he thinks they have a chance of survival. The thing that makes absolutely no sense with this uncertain behavior, however, is the fact that War and Peace have been a

solid

scumread for Dunny, as evidence by his readlist in the final post. This is scum behaving around a partner getting wagoned.

THE SHIP SAILS

During day 3, we're finally making this wagon on War and Peace go through. I've been pushing for them all game and we're finally making it happen. Where is Dunny while this happens?
4880 5595 - Dunny clearly still thinks War and Peace are scummy during this time, and has had that opinion for most of the game, but his actions simply do not match his words, and he remains stubbornly voting Toogeloo for the entire phase. This by itself isn't sooo bad, he may just be very confident Toogeloo is scum, however, what is bad is the fact he does not comment on any of the arguments made on War and Peace being scum even

once

.

No mention of how he still thinks their claim makes them town because of him being a doc, no mention that he thinks they might be scum because of this or that... nothing. It's classical scum behaviour around a partner.

SORROWS OF SARAH

4106 - Dunny townreads Sarah
4364 - Dunny townreads Sarah
6177 - Dunny votes for Sarah when she's essentially decided to be the launch

Once again, there's no progression from Dunny townreading Sarah to eventually voting for her. He claims later that he liked the cases put against her in 6303, but again, the fact he doesn't care to comment on the cases

while

they're being made, whether with agreement or disagreement, is incredibly scum-indicative. He's seeing whether the cases against her will stick or not and staying out of it completely. Also, it's funny that the reason we thought Sarah was scum (bad progression on War and Peace - from townreading them to randomly having them in PoE) is the exact same thing Dunny is doing to Sarah here. Pretty good scumtell, huh?

THE WAR THAT KEEPS ON GIVING

VOTE: Dunnstral
War and Peace's push onto him is really weird if he's town and does them no favours because it was an unpopular push
BUT if he's scum then maybe the logic they were using makes sense to them and they thought it'd make them look towny because they're technically correct
also they get some distancing in

War and Peace's push onto Dunny in 5519 really is strange if Dunny is town. Dunny at that point is close to UTR, and a very unpopular push for scum to make. Does scum!War really opt to push a townie like that who will only make them look worse? Absolutely not. Does scum!War opt to push a

partner

which they can distance from and that they actually believe the reasoning for? Absolutely.

SOMETHING SMELLS FISHY

1008 1092 6300

There were more instances of this but every time Dunny posted something like this, it just felt off and gave me pocketing vibes. I've felt that way towards Dunny all game - something about his tone is off and different from his play in Pooky v Flava. In that game, he was visibly irritated and almost antagonistic, getting annoyed at Noraa, as well as pichu and Ydrasse for their silly antics. There has been none of that this game, and his tone is night and day.

RETURN OF THE FELLOWSHIP

That concludes things. I want to thank my keyboard for allowing me this amazing opportunity, and I want to thank Dunny for being a good deepwolf for giving us this challenge at the end. Games aren't always fun being townstomps, so I appreciate the work you've put in, my friend.

[Pink Ball]

Your case relies too much in two factors: associations that the most powerful scum role would avoid having; and your own charisma.

I'll make a case on both of you and decide who we are eliminating today.

[Pyro]

Why Pyro can't be scum:
-Would have had to hard bus War and Peace and caused them to be launched
-Would have had to bus Sarah
-Had Sherlock suggest vanilla cop be locked to checking Pyro
-Claimed VT with a known vanilla cop around, and not nightkill that vanilla cop for several nights

Why Dunny can't be scum:
-???

[Pyro]

associations that the most powerful scum role would avoid having;

This is assuming Dunny would play perfectly and simply "avoid" having bad associations. He's scum, and scum lie and look scummy, and I've outlined the exact reasons why. It's on War and Peace's side too.

[Pyro]

Ftr, I'd feel a lot better about this game if you didn't have to randomly mislaunch me before launching Dunny the next day. The win would feel a lot more rewarding for me if we could just get him today. It's why I have a vested interest in flipping him today, even though I hope(?) you guys would flip Dunny and sheep deadtown!me the next day.