Micro 1006 | Hydrogen-9121 | The End

[RationalMadman]

I want Robert to answer the questions I asked at some point.

[Enchant]

If you think Robert us town, unvote him btw

No. There's point, where i don't want him alive regardless of alignment.

If he is Town, he probably will become shapegoat, probably will not help later and also never will be nightkilled.
There's still high possibility he is just mafia.

Either way, this is not person, for which i want give future of town.

[RationalMadman]

My current reads are that of Robert flips town, the team is Vander with one of Hydra/Not_Mafia. I do not believe both the Hydra and Not_Mafia are scum. I strongly recommend if I die Night One, to base the day two vote on this. I wput seriously take a look at Vander and the Hydra as well as townread AoC if Robert flips town.

At this point, I firmly believe there's little to gain but I will wait to see if Robert answers my questions, it cannot hurt to hear further reads and logic.

[RationalMadman]

If not of*

[RationalMadman]

To be clear either way around, I don't townread Vander. That said, the one thing thatakese feel Vander isn't a partner with Robert is how little Robert cares. It imolies Robert's partner doesn't care about this game either.

[RationalMadman]

So Robert's flip is indeed important to structure any day 2 reads and is safest to still eliminate, I will revote after Robert outs reads or when time demands

[Not_Mafia]

My current reads are that of Robert flips town, the team is Vander with one of Hydra/Not_Mafia. I do not believe both the Hydra and Not_Mafia are scum. I strongly recommend if I die Night One, to base the day two vote on this. I wput seriously take a look at Vander and the Hydra as well as townread AoC if Robert flips town.

At this point, I firmly believe there's little to gain but I will wait to see if Robert answers my questions, it cannot hurt to hear further reads and logic.

You won't die

[RationalMadman]

Why is that?

[Not_Mafia]

You're not a good NK

[Robert M Hunter]

So Robert's flip is indeed important to structure any day 2 reads and is safest to still eliminate, I will revote after Robert outs reads or when time demands

You just decided I'd be the easiest townie to slay on my second post and you've been piling on nonstop ever since, hoping to bamboozle the other players into submitting to your will, like the good little scum that you are.

[xijinping]

Sorry guys I'll get to this. Been a really busy week.

-Xi

[xijinping]

Okay I can read a 5 post ISO at least.

Robert, the problem I have with you is that your self-proclaimed noobishness starkly contrasts with your sudden jarring confidence on RM being scum. Can you explain why you're so confident in this read? It looks like a blanket narrative accusation from you without much substance.

-Xi

[xijinping]

To be clear either way around, I don't townread Vander. That said, the one thing thatakese feel Vander isn't a partner with Robert is how little Robert cares. It imolies Robert's partner doesn't care about this game either.

Can you explain how you get to the conclusion that if scum!Robert doesn't care, his partner doesn't care either? Who would you consider "doesn't care about this game"?

-Xi

[xijinping]

RM, why do you keep talking about Robert's flip as if it's for sure going to happen, call Vander scum, and not have a vote down?

-Xi

[Vanderscamp]

I haven't read any of their posts

Why are you playing this game?

[RationalMadman]

So Robert's flip is indeed important to structure any day 2 reads and is safest to still eliminate, I will revote after Robert outs reads or when time demands

You just decided I'd be the easiest townie to slay on my second post and you've been piling on nonstop ever since, hoping to bamboozle the other players into submitting to your will, like the good little scum that you are.

I asked you several questions, please answer them.

At the very least, explain your reads on any player except me.

[RationalMadman]

RM, why do you keep talking about Robert's flip as if it's for sure going to happen, call Vander scum, and not have a vote down?

Don't want to risk outing a town role, moving the target away from someone who claimed vanilla is suboptimal when we have a free mis-elimination and when the targeted player is being totally unhelpful throughout.

[Vanderscamp]

I think vander is scum in this game potentially (not just potentially but you get the point).

Assuming they/them pronouns here.

Vander seems to be asking questions to players and voting the path of least resistance without having a hard stance of their own from what I see.

There is something off about it because I sense that Vander is capable of a lot more aggression in cross-examining than what's been done so far. On the other hand, Vander is one of the only players actively doing it so I not sure how to justify a vote but I'm outing this vibe/gut read here and now.

I do think they easily are scum WITH Robert. That team isn't unthinkable. Vander could be throwing Robert under the bus here out of self-preservation as they see a bad long-term outcome of teaming with Robert. Actually, Vander could be with anyone at all because of how neutral the core stance is. I ask Vander to make clear the reads they have and reasoning behind each. Nullreads are fine but I'm unclear who Vander townreads, only clear that voting Robert through to elimination is supported.

I use male pronouns.

I think my reads have been extremely clear this game!
I've outlined them all already.

I thought Robert was null leaning scummy until his bigger post where he goes after you, and I think that post was very scummy and probably the scummiest thing anyone has posted this game.

I think you are towny because of how hard you seem to be trying.

I think your town reads on Enchant and AoC are poor, particularly the AoC one.
Despite being consistently present, I think AoC has contributed literally nothing of value the entire game, and the only thing I've liked from that seat was the dumbtell about day chat for scum.
I think it's very easy for scum to post what Enchant has said so far, but given that he's basically the only person other than you or me who is trying to provide actual content he is basically off the table for me until he starts to sound actively scummy.

Everyone else is null.

I don't think it's particularly useful to cross examine or have strong reads this early in the game, unless something is super obvious, because it just leads to tunneling.
For example I think what you did with Robert's initial entrance posts is in general pretty counterproductive (even though I think in this case you are town and were correct with your read) because it makes it much harder to objectively evaluate people. As an example of this, Robert claimed VT and you had this claim as an unbelievable claim and a clever bluff, which are both things that are essentially never true about a VT claim in a situation like this.



I'll accept not being town read by you, or even scum read, that's fine; I think I'm definitely within my scum range this game.
What I won't accept is me being one of the only seats that is trying so far, with one of us posting shit like "I think this makes sense coming from wolves, but not necessarily mafia" or whatever the fuck it was, and you deciding you would rather flip my seat over either AoC or the scummy nulls.

[RationalMadman]

Can you explain how you get to the conclusion that if scum!Robert doesn't care, his partner doesn't care either? Who would you consider "doesn't care about this game"?

Until your most recent posts, I considered you and Not_Mafia as extremely high candidates in that spectrum as well as AoC being within it but over time AoC has moved into proactive territory after some contributions following faes unvoting of Robert.

As for the first question, it's very simple, I do not believe that the safer bet/assumption/conclusion to make if Robert is scum, is that his partner is in any shape or form playing well. The kind of partner that would inspire Robert to play how he's playing is one that has somehow tilted Robert into feeling 'screw this game'.

That said, it's a weak conditional read, not a strong one.

A strong conditional read is that if Robert is town, AoC is town for how AoC reacted to Robert claiming vanilla.

[Vanderscamp]

If you think Robert us town, unvote him btw

No. There's point, where i don't want him alive regardless of alignment.

If he is Town, he probably will become shapegoat, probably will not help later and also never will be nightkilled.
There's still high possibility he is just mafia.

Either way, this is not person, for which i want give future of town.

I do think this is a mildly towny stance, I think scum would be more likely to just call him scum.

[Vanderscamp]

To be clear either way around, I don't townread Vander. That said, the one thing thatakese feel Vander isn't a partner with Robert is how little Robert cares. It imolies Robert's partner doesn't care about this game either.

So Robert's flip is indeed important to structure any day 2 reads and is safest to still eliminate, I will revote after Robert outs reads or when time demands

You just decided I'd be the easiest townie to slay on my second post and you've been piling on nonstop ever since, hoping to bamboozle the other players into submitting to your will, like the good little scum that you are.

This is extremely scummy imo

I very much do not believe this is genuine from Robert, I think he is just retaliating.

[Vanderscamp]

Can you explain how you get to the conclusion that if scum!Robert doesn't care, his partner doesn't care either? Who would you consider "doesn't care about this game"?

Until your most recent posts, I considered you and Not_Mafia as extremely high candidates in that spectrum as well as AoC being within it but over time AoC has moved into proactive territory after some contributions following faes unvoting of Robert.

As for the first question, it's very simple, I do not believe that the safer bet/assumption/conclusion to make if Robert is scum, is that his partner is in any shape or form playing well. The kind of partner that would inspire Robert to play how he's playing is one that has somehow tilted Robert into feeling 'screw this game'.

That said, it's a weak conditional read, not a strong one.

A strong conditional read is that if Robert is town, AoC is town for how AoC reacted to Robert claiming vanilla.

Can you talk more why this is the case?
Because I don't understand why it's towny for anyone to have voted Robert up until that point, see a VT claim, and then decide to move elsewhere, particularly if Robert is town.
Why wouldn't scum be incentivized to try to run up other people once they see a VT claim from Robert in the hopes of outing PRs?

[RationalMadman]

Spoiler: I am quoting Vanderscamp

I use male pronouns.

I think my reads have been extremely clear this game!
I've outlined them all already.

I thought Robert was null leaning scummy until his bigger post where he goes after you, and I think that post was very scummy and probably the scummiest thing anyone has posted this game.

I think you are towny because of how hard you seem to be trying.

I think your town reads on Enchant and AoC are poor, particularly the AoC one.
Despite being consistently present, I think AoC has contributed literally nothing of value the entire game, and the only thing I've liked from that seat was the dumbtell about day chat for scum.
I think it's very easy for scum to post what Enchant has said so far, but given that he's basically the only person other than you or me who is trying to provide actual content he is basically off the table for me until he starts to sound actively scummy.

Everyone else is null.

I don't think it's particularly useful to cross examine or have strong reads this early in the game, unless something is super obvious, because it just leads to tunneling.
For example I think what you did with Robert's initial entrance posts is in general pretty counterproductive (even though I think in this case you are town and were correct with your read) because it makes it much harder to objectively evaluate people. As an example of this, Robert claimed VT and you had this claim as an unbelievable claim and a clever bluff, which are both things that are essentially never true about a VT claim in a situation like this.



I'll accept not being town read by you, or even scum read, that's fine; I think I'm definitely within my scum range this game.
What I won't accept is me being one of the only seats that is trying so far, with one of us posting shit like "I think this makes sense coming from wolves, but not necessarily mafia" or whatever the fuck it was, and you deciding you would rather flip my seat over either AoC or the scummy nulls.

I didn't just disbelieve the vanilla claim because of what the role was, if that was my reasoning I'd scumread myself even. My reasoning was how laid back he did it and how thoroughly 'IDGAF' he has been about the game.

I don't really know what you expected me to say or do, I definitely had and still have no motive or genuine basis to townread Robert whatsoever. The one thing about Robert that made me unvote him was I didn't want a quickhammer to occur before he had a chance to properly out reads and perhaps have others react to said reads. I think I am dying in the night phase and want to extract as much information as possible.

I firmly scumread Robert even now, at this very point, however the 'firm' isn't absolute. Robert could indeed act this way as a vanilla townie who doesn't give a damn about the game.

I don't believe there is ever a 'too soon' moment to make reads. Even if they're semi-forced and stated only for a reaction, I am a proponent of having reads and pressure ASAP on everyone in a game. The more ruthless the game pressure atmosphere, the better it is for town if you play such a scenario out over many games. Pressure is where scumtells

and also towntells

happen.

[RationalMadman]

Why wouldn't scum be incentivized to try to run up other people once they see a VT claim from Robert in the hopes of outing PRs?

The third question is very pertinent. AoC didn't and hasn't even slightly moved on from unvoting Robert to pushing for another lynch in this day phase. Fae hasn't even threatened it. This is extremely important in understanding what the 'nature of' the unvote was, simply to give Robert breathing room, let the day drag on and let us perhaps get reads on the 2 lurkers.

As scum, AoC would probably (if Robert isn't his partner) sit there giggling and wait for someone to hammer. At the very least, there's no real reason for AoC to suddenly not just unvote but take the game seriously after that point. I read the change in attitude as very towny if Robert is town. If Robert is scum, AoC could have acted in all those ways as the partner.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't understand what's happening this game if you are town, not_mafia.

You came into this game with energy and a self vote and since your first post your energy has been zero.

Why are you even playing this game if you have no interest in hunting at all?
Why is this not you as scum seeing that your partner Robert is likely going down and losing all motivation?

I think we are in quite a good spot because I am quite confident Robert is mafia and we'll be able to kill him without needing any town to claim.