Newbie 2061 | Views of Tallinn | Town wins

[Meuh]

ayyyy juicy posts
this is why i like when replacements show up, we get a bunch of content

[Pearofclubs]

I think I may have just caught a scum making a slip during my read through!

I would like everyone to compare PearfoClubs posts 124 and post 419. I think you might find some harsh inconsistencies.

I actually was explicitly suspicious of someone in my last game because they were super helpful. I thought it was them trying to steer suspicions away from themselves and appear nice and helpful. Turns out it was just a helpful person.
Shame we lost because of that suspicion, but live and learn, right?

Basically, he claims, that in his last game, he scum read someone for being helpful, but they were actually

town

, and therefore lost the game.

This means that people are, at least to some degree, suspecting him less because he's giving gameplay advice and assistance. My last game a very helpful and nice player that I townread early on turned out to be scum. Perspectives get tainted by appreciating things like that

Basically, he claims, that in his last game, he townread someone for being helpful, but they were actually

scum

, and therefore lost the game.

Hopefully, everyone sees the discrepancy here. So it seems to me, like he was making up a story to try and get people to agree with his push at the time, and did not realize that he had already made up the exact opposite story. This reeks of scum trying to manipulate town.

I would very much like to go ahead and drop a vote here on Pear, but I am going to get fully caught up before I cast any votes. I am going to step a way for a bit to take a break, but I will be caught up before I go to bed tonight!

To put names to the people you're talking about, I was suspicious of Word because he was publicly helpful to everyone early on- in particular, telling people how to scumhunt. I suspected he was scum for that reason.
Notscience was nice and encouraging to me specifically, and I ended up liking him more than I should have. I missed scumtells that were obvious in retrospect.
The last three players were myself, Word and Notscience.
Here's the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83818&start=1600

[Pearofclubs]

It occurs to me that you might not be entirely done yet, I'll let you finish

[Meuh]

[*]Post 381, Meuh losing more town points. "I think he is scum, because he is scum reading me" is a really weak stance to take, especially given the fact that she clearly has some mafia experience

That wasn't the stance I was taking in that post though? I acknowledge in the post itself I

dislike

my mentality against Norwee because of potential bias I have due to the appeal of OMGUSing. My gut was screaming that Norwee was scum, but my brain was against it, partially because Norwee was scumreading me in the first place.
Feeling less good about me in the second half of day 1 is reasonable though, I hit a lack of motivation and confidence (partially due to irl stuff, partially because of the less active gamestate, partially just cause it's like that for no real reason sometimes) which leads to a shift in mentality from "Let's get scum elimed!" to "Let's just get this day over with and end up with a decent outcome", if that hadn't happened I think I would've played the whole thing pretty differently

[catboi]

I think I may have just caught a scum making a slip during my read through!

I would like everyone to compare PearfoClubs posts 124 and post 419. I think you might find some harsh inconsistencies.

I actually was explicitly suspicious of someone in my last game because they were super helpful. I thought it was them trying to steer suspicions away from themselves and appear nice and helpful. Turns out it was just a helpful person.
Shame we lost because of that suspicion, but live and learn, right?

Basically, he claims, that in his last game, he scum read someone for being helpful, but they were actually

town

, and therefore lost the game.

This means that people are, at least to some degree, suspecting him less because he's giving gameplay advice and assistance. My last game a very helpful and nice player that I townread early on turned out to be scum. Perspectives get tainted by appreciating things like that

Basically, he claims, that in his last game, he townread someone for being helpful, but they were actually

scum

, and therefore lost the game.

Hopefully, everyone sees the discrepancy here. So it seems to me, like he was making up a story to try and get people to agree with his push at the time, and did not realize that he had already made up the exact opposite story. This reeks of scum trying to manipulate town.

I would very much like to go ahead and drop a vote here on Pear, but I am going to get fully caught up before I cast any votes. I am going to step a way for a bit to take a break, but I will be caught up before I go to bed tonight!

This is such a cheap attempt at a "gotcha!" case. I really hate it. What reason would pear have to lie about their last game here?

[Lukewarm]

To put names to the people you're talking about, I was suspicious of Word because he was publicly helpful to everyone early on- in particular, telling people how to scumhunt. I suspected he was scum for that reason.
Notscience was nice and encouraging to me specifically, and I ended up liking him more than I should have. I missed scumtells that were obvious in retrospect.
The last three players were myself, Word and Notscience.
Here's the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83818&start=1600

Hmm, I will take this into consideration as I continue to build my final reads, but to be up front with you, I am not a player who is interested in reading through other games. If someone can't convince me in thread, then they are missing the entire purpose of this game imo. So noted, your explanation is that you were referencing two different players from the same game.

[Lukewarm]

This is such a cheap attempt at a "gotcha!" case. I really hate it. What reason would pear have to lie about their last game here?

I did not think that the goal was ever to lie about a prior game. I felt like the goal was "let me convince people to listen to my push, by giving a personal anecdotal example of why this logic should/should not be applied." And then he did that twice, using contradictory stories. Which feels to me like manipulation. And manipulation is a hard scum tell imo.

I wanted to explain my reading of it a bit more, but I am still not caught up (but working on it), so I am still holding out judgement until then.

[Pearofclubs]

Hmm, I will take this into consideration as I continue to build my final reads, but to be up front with you, I am not a player who is interested in reading through other games. If someone can't convince me in thread, then they are missing the entire purpose of this game imo. So noted, your explanation is that you were referencing two different players from the same game.

That's fair, and i don't expect you to fish through other threads, but I figured I would straighten that out.
It hadn't even occurred to me that I'd mentioned both this game so there was initially some confusion

[Lukewarm]

Here is my final read list as of the end of Day 1. Then I will work my way through Day 2.

(My strong town read tier is empty)

Meuh

- Meuh was one tier up as of like 80% of the way through Day 1, like almost every post from the beginning of the day just screamed town at me, but they did fall slightly at the end of the day because they came across like they were okay with almost every elim option presented

Not Mafia

- They were yellow, with a note :"if Norwee flips red/green move Not_mafia one tier in that direction" so now they are hanging out here

Marcistar

- I have had mixed reactions to them throughout day 1. They have defenitly been green at various points for me, but they have kind of bounced back and forth between green and yellow..

Samawoodo

- I have gotten mostly negative reactions to their posts, but mainly in a "gut feeling" kind of way, but I did not really spot anything I could pin point as to why I felt that way
(These are the two who I think have the highest potential to move once I do ISOs on them. This is mainly a "need to give them a second look tier atm)

Norwegianboy

- this is where he was for me at the end of the day. I probably would have been on his wagon tbh

Catboi

- Over all not a good vibe from this guy. For the first half of the day, seemed too hesitant to voice their opinion. And when they finally did voice their opinion, they landed on Not_Mafia which seems like the easy way out for a scum imo.

Tori/T3

- to be fair to T3, they mainly get this ranking from the Tori post, but T3 did not really give me anything to pull them back up from where Tori left him

Pearofclubs

- they were a slight scum lean (same as norwegianboy and catboi) even before I read the posts I pointed out, but once I noticed it, it really screamed to me "he is trying to manipulate me" which says scum to me, so he dropped down here.

(I put pearofclubs at the bottom before he responded, and this is supposed to be "where I stood at the end of day 1 anyways. I am going to mull over his response as I read through Day 2).

Looking at it, I am actually surprised how many names I have as red/orange. I feel like I generally end up going the other way with too many town reads. This leaves me with much to think about moving forward.

[Lukewarm]

[*]Post 381, Meuh losing more town points. "I think he is scum, because he is scum reading me" is a really weak stance to take, especially given the fact that she clearly has some mafia experience

That wasn't the stance I was taking in that post though? I acknowledge in the post itself I

dislike

my mentality against Norwee because of potential bias I have due to the appeal of OMGUSing. My gut was screaming that Norwee was scum, but my brain was against it, partially because Norwee was scumreading me in the first place.
Feeling less good about me in the second half of day 1 is reasonable though, I hit a lack of motivation and confidence (partially due to irl stuff, partially because of the less active gamestate, partially just cause it's like that for no real reason sometimes) which leads to a shift in mentality from "Let's get scum elimed!" to "Let's just get this day over with and end up with a decent outcome", if that hadn't happened I think I would've played the whole thing pretty differently

Don't feel too bad, you still ended up as the top of my town read list apparently. It was more of a "in the first half of the day, you reached a, in my mind this person is 100% town" and that second half of the day just moved you down to "probably town" haha

But I still felt like mentioning, because that it was enough for me to make a slight adjustment to my read of you. And I am trying to get like 18 game days worth of thoughts and reactions out there, so people can have as clear of a picture of where I am at, as they have of everyone else in the game.

[Lukewarm]

Okay, I am officially caught up, but also desperately in need of some sleep, so I don't think I can work through too long of a post rn, but am more then happy to elaborate more tomorrow. Basically VOTE: pearofclubs

I was already suspicious of him Day 1, even before the anecdotal inconsistency thing, like I had him in my scum reads list at least by post 376. And then, after I had him in my scum pile already, I saw the anecdotal inconsistency thing, and then after that I saw the Norwegianboy flip, both of which don't help my read of him. And then reading through today, I'm still getting a feeling that he is scum. I wish I was not so tired, because I really would like to get into the nitty gritty of his posts for Day 2, but I just need sleep at this point.

Spoiler:

I have mulled over his "I was referring to two different people from the same game" defense, and I don't think it got rid of this feeling for me. It just feels like he was typing those posts with the mind set of "what could manipulate the thread" as opposed to "how can we win as town." This is partly because the anecdote#2 (offered in post 419) would have actually made more sense in the first post (124) then anecdote #1 did originally, but either would have been acceptable to make the point he was trying to make. But then in the second post, anecdote #1 just would not have worked, it would have actually made the opposite point he was trying to make. So it feels like anecdote #1 is real, but when he was typing the second post, he thought "hmmm, my anecdote does not quite lend to the point I am trying to make, so I am going to tweak it slightly so that I can make the point I want to make." Which just feels super scummy to me. So this is where I am ending on the issue, but I don't really plan on pushing this angle any more atm, because I feel like he is scum even without it.

[VFP]

Hopefully, everyone sees the discrepancy here. So it seems to me, like he was making up a story to try and get people to agree with his push at the time, and did not realize that he had already made up the exact opposite story. This reeks of scum trying to manipulate town.

This is a really good post and a good spot.
If you read the context to Pear's posts they are even worse. It's the before and after having NorwegianboyEE as scum.
Just adapting the comment to suit their agenda.

[VFP]

Why do you see this game as similar to pear's scum game but not their town game? I looked at the two and I can't see any obvious differences at a glance.

This has already been commented on in 527
As stated I though, they only had 1 completed game due to the title not being updated.
I havent read the town game yet and therefore I'm not using this as a push now until I do.

[VFP]

I wouldn't rule out that scumteam.

I would.
The fact you use the posting else where argument is also scummy and really doesn't go down too well for me.

I'm still waiting for your read on iN3krO
Can you give the read based on before Lukewarm joined and then after Lukewarm joined?

To put names to the people you're talking about, I was suspicious of Word because he was publicly helpful to everyone early on- in particular, telling people how to scumhunt. I suspected he was scum for that reason.
Notscience was nice and encouraging to me specifically, and I ended up liking him more than I should have. I missed scumtells that were obvious in retrospect.
The last three players were myself, Word and Notscience.
Here's the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83818&start=1600

The problem with this is it still meets what Lukewarm said and is manipulative. In both comments you say hour last game. You are using this vague information to justify your read on someone, and using the same argument just flipped to justify.

[Not_Mafia]

Hopefully, everyone sees the discrepancy here. So it seems to me, like he was making up a story to try and get people to agree with his push at the time, and did not realize that he had already made up the exact opposite story. This reeks of scum trying to manipulate town.

This is a really good post and a good spot.
If you read the context to Pear's posts they are even worse. It's the before and after having NorwegianboyEE as scum.
Just adapting the comment to suit their agenda.

It's not, both of those thing can be true

[VFP]

It's not, both of those thing can be true

And yet both are used to justify a read just reversed.
Why is Pear town to you?

Pear shading you without pushing you as scum or voting concerns me here.

[T3]

Deadline i n 5 hours.
Everyone willing to have a marci or pear flashwagon?

[lendunistus]

Newbie 2061 - Votecount 2.3

Votecount

marcistar (3):

catboi, Pearofclubs, T3

Pearofclubs (2):

VFP, Lukewarm

VFP (1):

Not_Mafia

Not_Mafia (1):

Meuh

Not Voting (1):

marcistar

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate a player.

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-04-27 14:30:00)

Vote history

Spoiler:

T3 votes iN3krO: Post #435
iN3krO votes Samawoodo: Post #436
Not_Mafia votes catboi: Post #440
Meuh votes Samawoodo: Post #470
T3 votes marcistar: Post #471
Not_Mafia votes Samawoodo: Post #473
Meuh unvotes Samawoodo: Post #478
catboi votes marcistar: Post #482
VFP votes Pearofclubs: Post #501
Pearofclubs votes marcistar: Post #516
Meuh votes Not_Mafia: Post #521
T3 votes Pearofclubs: Post #538
Lukewarm unvotes VFP: Post #555
T3 votes marcistar: Post #563
Lukewarm votes Pearofclubs: Post #585

[catboi]

Okay, the deadline is extended so it's not as bad, but we still need to consolidate on someone and get a claim

[catboi]

I'd vote Lukewarm, I really don't like catch-up posts at all. Know that's not a viable wagon right now, but still

[Not_Mafia]

Why aren't you trying to get people on marci, the leading wagon

[Meuh]

I'm willing to vote Marci
Will vote Marci over Pear
We do need to consolidate on something, I'd say Marci should probably claim? Not that much time left

[Meuh]

I'd vote Lukewarm, I really don't like catch-up posts at all. Know that's not a viable wagon right now, but still

A Lukewarm wagon sounds bad to me tbh
I don't necessarily agree with all the points made in their catchup but I don't find them very scummy and I felt pretty decent about the Ink spot before they were replaced, I really don't see why we should be eliming them here

[Not_Mafia]

Meuh vote marci

[marcistar]

We do need to consolidate on something, I'd say Marci should probably claim? Not that much time left

How much times left..? I'm so confused because my forum times show up different from irl time so im not sure about that IWOHFDS