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[Iconeum]

what's making you think samantha is scum?

you realize this isn't a sudden thing that just happened right?

[Iconeum]

it's now the 2 day anniversary of umlaut being in snipe range

which means absolutely nothing so please start working with whoever the fuck you think is town?

[Iconeum]

i mean, it means *something*

i'm not scum with datisi
i'm not scum with outworld
datisi isn't scum with outworld

something like that, sure

[Iconeum]

who's the last scum then?

can you make a case on scumlaut rather then 'omg its obvious'?

[Iconeum]

i've went thru llama's iso a couple times already and it's

well

not really glaringly Obvious that umlaut is partner

there was exactly 1 post in there that makes me believe you aren't partnered with llama

[Iconeum]

I'm not gonna give mafia a roadmap for who to nightkill

sugar please

everyone and their mother knows i'm the nightkill

and i am going to solve this game before i am deadened

so don't give me crap about not giving your thoughts
you said the same thing yesterday, today that won't be allowed

[Iconeum]

if you say it's so Obvious that umlaut is partnered with llama

simply quote me the posts that make it so Obvious?

[Iconeum]

i don't know why Obvious gets auto capitalized every time

[Iconeum]

if you think i'm town

and you want me to vote umlaut

show me why

[Iconeum]

@umlaut

no response to my other posts?
just taking the Samantha 1v1?

what changed?

[Iconeum]

because your keyboard is telling you to capitalize on my vote

i'll even allow the not spewing your other thoughts part

so just quote me the damning posts in llama iso please?

[Iconeum]

Samantha

ur either bullshitting your read on umlaut, and your take that the link with llama is 'obvious' is bullshit too then

or it's genuine, and you should have no problem just quoting a few of the damning posts if it's that easy to find anyway

you can multiquote easy enough on this forum, shouldn't take you more then a minute or two

[Iconeum]

maybe you don't wanna give reads and thoughts about tomorrow because you hope there won't be a tomorrow?

[Iconeum]

like I said I have no interest in broadcasting my thoughts about tomorrow before tomorrow

I'm not gonna give mafia a roadmap for who to nightkill

as for why umlaut, I already did

umlaut was -1 and llama didn't hammer
umlaut was also absent from the llama wagon
llama also never even spoke to umlaut until after he was outed by anya

if you want more details check my recent posts

oh and both umlaut and llama have had no reads in the entire game, plus umlaut thought llama's nonsensical point about me saying not to lynch before a roleclaim was good lol

also i completely missed these posts

i'll check this first

[Iconeum]

I'm still VT.

I don't follow why Datisi gets townpoints for Ico being alive considering after Rathe elim the only function Ico had was as a named townie and he didn't use that to throw any weight around.

As for my suspicions on this terrible Elo: Umlaut/Samantha feels way too easy but my brain tells me that's where it should go. I didn't like Umlaut yesterday and I haven't like Samantha all game.

I'm very paranoid of Datisi after my experience modding 2195 but tbh I'm checked out of this game and kinda want to just defer to Ico's experience with Datisi on this. I'll still him a lookover though.

outworld expand on this now?
you think Samantha + umlaut is actually plausible? Samantha/umlaut just straight out hard counter bussing in lylo?
and you also throw some shade in on datisi, with only me as a 'deferred' townread?

are these reads still up to date?

[Iconeum]

imagine thinking i have actual tangible thoughts processes that i can explain on how my reads are formed

but i could probably quote you relevant posts if you like

[Iconeum]

and also i am not so very sure about scum!samantha at this point

[Iconeum]

Spoiler:

can you all promise to not wait until deadline tomorrow cause this is definitely gonna be a town lynch no matter who it is

This is weird given you then vote a PR claim

If you really believed this then you'd have insisted on limming the VT claim (who you SR btw) instead of a PR clam D1

what ya gotta say about this one, sam

if that even is your real name

town mailman enabler

One fucking minute later

VOTE: rathe

Damn, that infuriates me

Maybe Samantha is just scum here, that looks so opportunistic. Scum would know there is a potentially strong Mailman who will be made redundant by this move, and she votes so fast before anyone can unvote or even think about it

ngl, i'm seeing what luca is saying here...

it was deliberately fast since I knew people would unvote

what

Imo the hammer is a little bit less bad than you're making it out to be, luca, because we really just needed an elim, there was a nonzero chance that we would try to get the votes for outworld and not succeed and end the day in a no elim

It was bad, to be clear, but still

the hammer itself… definitely not bad
we did it to ourselves

but everything preceding it what luca is quoting is pinging me

VOTE: samantha

the discrepancy in yeeting the claim is just something i don't see town doing

even in isolation, the 'omg i think it will flip town' is just a scum post distancing from the flip, and when she sees a potential to yeet a pr enabler goes for it under cover of deadline

makes sense

if you look at the kill, both sam and infinity profit from it in a gamestate perspective

sam is key on the rathe exe, and infinity was the instigator

we should yeet in these 2

yes I can see anya as mafia

the problem is I can see you outworlder and umlaut as mafia as well

the only people I actually feel good about being town are koto and something_smart

this is bullshit yeah?

ok shotgun solve here goes

(anya/llama)
(outworlder/Samantha/umlaut)

1 scum in the top
remainder in the bottom

if this is wrong... yeah

it was mainly a sheep of luca's read, where sam's motivation for insta-voting the mailman enabler claim just doesn't come from town
followed by the distancing from the flip 'omg i think this might flip town'
only the 2 townreads and a few naked scumreads

[Iconeum]

outworld with the 'scumread yet deferred townread because ico says so' on datisi
and sam has been shading datisi forever

but they don't need that, they just need umlaut dead which is a real possibility
and sam's rushing this through isn't really vibing well

umlaut + outworld? they just don't give a shit here it's hard to imagine they are not into this game with that position?

sam + umlaut? no way right?

[Iconeum]

is there *any* combination that even makes slight sense?

sam + outworld? with outworld just doing jack shit hoping someone votes umlaut and he can hammer?

sam + datisi? with datisi trying to get me into townreading sam, sheep vote umlaut and hammer for victory?

datisi can only be scum with sam here - or with umlaut i guess???? but then i'd certainly be dead already, even more then i should be
is it even realistic for me to include datisi in a solve? aaaaaaaaaaa

[Iconeum]

who's objectively scummier

outworld?
umlaut?
Samantha?

i can probably case all 3 lol

[Iconeum]

who's objectively townier? is that easier?

[Iconeum]

with who am i scum??????

[Iconeum]

like

ok assume i'm a scum mailman then

it's not with Samantha because she made damn sure the mailman got neutered by slaying the enabler claim
it's not with umlaut - i think you know why
possssibly with outworld? and we aren't taking the win here because??

[Iconeum]

ok lol

[Iconeum]

like who is ico scum with here.

umlaut? probably not, i don't think those interactions are s/s.
samantha? if the remaining townies are me/umlaut/outworld we have lost this game looooong before today.
outworld? even if we assume no daytalk, would it really take them this fucking long to organize a hammer? are they just sitting on their ass waiting?

pedit: funney you ask that lol

these are town!tisi conclusions

[Iconeum]

do you have any idea how much creepers you are giving me with that post

[Iconeum]

holy fuck

[Iconeum]

i mean

overall i think ur town - there is some paranoia but ehh

that last post is just creeping me out

but i'm not voting you today anyway so i don't really care lol

[Iconeum]

if you had all control here

who do you yeet?

[Iconeum]

but i'm not voting you today anyway so i don't really care lol

you do know that scumtisi isn't killing you tonight, right? like if i'm scum, you're gonna have to make the decision at some point

please don't make me consider the possibility of being alive tomorrow

[Iconeum]

Cool

[Iconeum]

well it's been a full day and nobody talked so I'm just gonna yolo

VOTE: Umlaut

if it's wrong at least the pain ends.

So you townread me
And you tdfffdrust my townread of datisi

Which means you think scum are cross voting
In yeelo?

[Iconeum]

does town!umlaut roll over and play dead?

does scum!laut roll over and play dead?

i don't fucking know

[Iconeum]

I don't expect to turn this around.

well you haven't exactly tried either you know

[Iconeum]

but like

why didn't scum!laut just self hammer?
if the goal is to be bussed (sam/outworld as buddy)

[Iconeum]

I reread and Llama's actions on D2 support town!Sam here.

why aren't you fighting my datisi townread here then?

[Iconeum]

because you don't have to?

i die anyway, town!sam thinks datisi is scum anyway

bus umlaut, and bank on sam to vote datisi tomorrow?

how close am i, outworld

[Iconeum]

if i'm right about datisi this game is lost anyway at this point

both sam and outworld will prob vote datisi tomorrow

[Iconeum]

sam's refusal to discuss anything or provide anything is pingy as fuck

outworld has just basicly lurked all lylo and doesn't try to solve this in any way shape or form

and umlaut just gets insta voted and does jack shit about it

[Iconeum]

Im still horribly slammed and probably wont get a chance to fully catchup until around this time tomorrow as I am actually trying to move some work around so I take an afternoon break to do this, go back to work and then record directly after that.

Anyway, I think my big takeaway from a quick read is OW is town. VT claim in this situation to me is a massive towntell, its not like there is no other wagon that things can shift off to. Its almost strong enough that if OW is scum, I think it forces Umulat to be scum because that would have probably been where all the attention went (note that only works one way, OW-town or Umulat-scum by itself doesnt massively impact the other). Unless site meta has massively shifted, a D1 PR claim unless it really makes no sense, gets countered, etc tends to live... VT not so much. So yeah, defense mode on OW activated based on the classic tells.

I know time is short, but I dont love any of the wagons right now. If I missed any important questions let me know because I just absolutely blasted through everything so I can get something in today. Luckily we got more time tomorrow now (even if deadline moved from when I tend to log off for the night to middle of the night). Might be able to cycle back around in 5ish hours tonight.

Spoiler:

VOTE: outworlder

if someone hammers without a claim they should get instalynched tomorrow

last mini normal I played mafia hammered a neighborizer before they could claim, cause they were inactive like outworlder/umlaut

This bothers me (emphasis mine). This *really* bothers me because of the implications of it all. There is a difference between saying "no one hammer without a claim" and "no one hammer or they get ran up tomorrow". The second part, which Samantha decided to use here, includes a direct implication that OW is town, which is a very odd one to make as that flies in the face of their reads. Samantha is approaching OW from two different midsets. The first is that OW is scum and needs to go today. The second one is anyone who hammers without a claim is scum, unless you believe that she is seriously suggesting that if someone hammers without a claim that they are scum regardless of what OW flips. The natural mindset is "that was risky, but lets see what happens" if someone hammers a scumread with no claim. Not "you did X that automatically means Y". Because if OW is scum... hammering without a claim wouldnt be a scumtell unless Samantha is seriously suggesting scum would just hammer a partner without letting them claim.

Vote Samantha

Lets see what type of last minute push we can make.

meh

i don't think i'm gonna get over my OG thoughts that this isn't scum pushing scum

Samantha's probably just the town there
i think datisi is town

scumteam umlaut/outworld?
and it's just outworld bussing umlaut here, seeing there are no real alternatives and just banking on Samantha to vote datisi in final lylo?

probably the read i'm settling on

[Iconeum]

@samantha

you agree with my final solution here?

[Iconeum]

ok, next question: why isn't outworld voting umlaut

Nom

Official Vote Count

samantha97

(1): OutWorldER

Umlaut

(5): Datisi, Iconeum, Momrangal, Infinity 324, Rathe

[E-2]

OutWorldER

(3): Luca Blight, samantha97, esotericzoomer

Rathe

(1): Anya

Not Voting

(3): LlamaFluff, Andresvmb, Umlaut

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-04-02 02:56:32)

at the time that duelling outworld / umlaut wagons were a thing
both umlaut and outworld weren't cross voting

[Iconeum]

umlaut why aren't you voting anyone

Not keen on the OutworldER wagon and didn't see a serious alternative (other than myself, which I'm also not so keen on)

I still don't, but on a hunch I'm going to
VOTE: Infinity

They've established a pattern, with Llama and with me, of quietly supporting wagons while inviting others to take responsibility for them, and I don't like it. Want to get more attention on this.

'not being keen' doesn't matter much to townies who are about to be yeeted
self-preservation etc

[Iconeum]

I'm going to give up on trying to read Anya until we have some flips and in the meantime just enjoy her posts.

pedit: The former. Again, maybe my own perception of things colors it a bit but I've always gotten the feeling (especially after 2185) that scum see me more as an easy target than an asset.

I consider it pretty well-known that town will look for scum on the wagons of "easy targets" and so scum are just as likely to push against those targets as for them, particularly if they aren't feeling like they're in danger of elimination themselves (which they shouldn't be if we're both town right now).

Pedit:

I've avoided interacting with anything just because I was just completely zoinked out of mafia. The past few days of this game from my end have been seeing the thread in my subscriptions, saying "I don't feel like dealing with this right now" and then fucking off. I considered taking V/LA or something but I didn't want to do that for a bullshit reason so I just stayed in.

This is relatable, tbh

umlaut!scum v town!outworld, i really don't see that because why wouldn't scum!laut just pile onto outworld
town!umlaut v scum!outworld, like, maayyyybe? but still, self preservation is a thing
town!umlaut v town!outworld? really? i don't see scum!sam + scum!datisi here? riiiiight?

[Iconeum]

i knew ico was the loyal mailman

this just keeps coming back whenever my mind drifts back to 'what if datisi is scum'
and also i could just *feel* shark!tisi swimming the waters around my claim waiting to pounce lol

[Iconeum]

we've got tonight

who needs tomorrow

datisi is town

scum is outworld/umlaut

we yeet outworld today
and tomorrow you get your umlaut flip

yay or nay?

[Iconeum]

hi I am awake because of a mysterious illness don't leave without voting umlaut so we don't auto lose from a timeout pls

i think ur the town

and you need to start working with me if you think im town

in the case you think i'm scum

you should also probably do something lol

[Iconeum]

i knew ico was the loyal mailman

this just keeps coming back whenever my mind drifts back to 'what if datisi is scum'
and also i could just *feel* shark!tisi swimming the waters around my claim waiting to pounce lol

you do understand why (1) me knowing you're a loyal mailman (2) s_s insisting lm + ta can't both be town (3) s_s being much better at mechanics than me (4) s_s being killed over *the conftown* made me nervous about you, right???

i can't do jack shit about that but yeah

[Iconeum]

tf would we lynch outworlder when umlaut is confirmed mafia

because i seriously think that town!you is gonna throw this game tomorrow

that's why

[Iconeum]

well ostensibly town!you is arguing to throw the game today lol

how

[Iconeum]

because I can make a compelling case for every person here being mafia, including myself

it'd be nice if one of you died thx

i don't need you to scumread everyone

i need you to have an understanding of who the town is

[Iconeum]

like i would legit prefer an outworld flip right now over umlaut just to make sure Samantha votes for actual scum tomorrow

[Iconeum]

like i would legit prefer an outworld flip right now over umlaut just to make sure Samantha votes for actual scum tomorrow

ok now why would you as mafia not ask the same thing?

???????????

[Iconeum]

Samantha

who are your townreads

please

[Iconeum]

you think i'm mafia?

[Iconeum]

you understand that there are more town out here then just you right

why aren't you townbuilding????

[Iconeum]

or

ur just scum

umlaut is your way to winning this right here and now

aaaaaaaa

[Iconeum]

why are you refusing to work with literally anyone here?

[Iconeum]

samantha, his point is that he'd bet the game on me being town right now and he has a very bad feeling you're just gonna lolvote me for the loss tomorrow

this

[Iconeum]

samantha, his point is that he'd bet the game on me being town right now and he has a very bad feeling you're just gonna lolvote me for the loss tomorrow

I fully understand his point

where is your suspicion of him trying to pull one over?

we've had pages of discussion about this
you were nowhere to be seen coming with your opinion

[Iconeum]

in the world where i'm right

this game is literally already lost

[Iconeum]

sam will just completely ignore me, even after seeing my flip

lolvote datisi

and the fucking lurker team is gonna win this doing nothing

[Iconeum]

i've spent a lot of posts this lylo trying to figure out the deelio

did you even respond to a single one?

[Iconeum]

if you want me to read you as town act town thx

i think i'm just gonna go fuck all and not give you your preferred flip

just to spite you

[Iconeum]

ya I did and in reply you gave me more fodder for thinking you were mafia

that's my point

where

[Iconeum]

so i'm scum with umlaut

which means outworld and datisi are town in your eyes

yet you keep expressing scumread on datisi

do you *see* the problem

[Iconeum]

i think she's talking about me, ico

yeah i don't think so

[Iconeum]

again, if you're so concerned about a lurker win this is the opposite of productive

who's town

[Iconeum]

who's town

me

I'm not going to instavote if I'm alive tomorrow anyway

idk why you think I'm some amateur lol

ok who are the other town

[Iconeum]

i don't wanna lose this game

if i don't do this now...

[Iconeum]

this is a tvtvt shitfest

this is my thought yeah

and i'm just extremely frustrated with sam but fuuuckkk

[Iconeum]

it better be

*pedit

gg

[Iconeum]

dats if you wanna hammer go ahead

[Iconeum]

i'm not giving sam the satisfaction

[Iconeum]

outworld isn't happening

yeah

i've done what i can

[Iconeum]

i think this is a loss

[Iconeum]

i have very dirty words for Samantha

i'll just not say them out loud

[Iconeum]

fucking hell

[Iconeum]

at least that saves another phase lol

[Iconeum]

do i buy it? eeeeeeh, not really?

what

[Iconeum]

no

[Iconeum]

i think we made a woopsie lol

[Iconeum]

at least the stubbornness makes more sense coming from scum!antha

[Iconeum]

trolls rule the world my friend

[Iconeum]

do you know da way of da pagetop

[Iconeum]

you do not

[Iconeum]

what's the chance that outworld drops in right after hammer btw lol

[Iconeum]

i'm town

it's illegal to lie in lylo twilight you know

site rules

[Iconeum]

yelo*

sorry

[Iconeum]

VOTE: samantha

[Iconeum]

i do'nt see a point in dragging this out either

[Iconeum]

goooootttemmm

[Iconeum]

hi remember how I said traffic analyst and loyal mailman couldn't exist in the same setup

that was funny wasn't it

you had to be deadened

next time don't solve the game if you want to live

[Iconeum]

Well done Icon, good performance tbf

thanks

i got caught a little with my claim, and end of game play wasn't great

but i had tons of fun