Open 807 | Town Win

[Morning Tweet]

hiya SS and A50! been a minute

And hello implosion n Scipio as well!

[Morning Tweet]

That wasn't a scum concession due to frustration by Salsa which is definitely what I was figuring as an observer that read only like the last 2 pages

it looks like if one of SS/implo/A50 quickhammered Salsa it'd be weird, I guess? How long has this day been going on? A week I see. Has SS been at sufficient risk to get hammered, I assume yes considering my slot so that really begs the question why he didn't move. This is interesting!

I also understand that apparently she's been at E-1 for a while, did she keep this "giving up" attitude the whole way through? That's seriously easy to miselim, I really wonder if scum could restrain themselves but *especially* SS

asking "is arte scum" and "are you scum" to the two of you, in the same post

I have to go through

PookytheMagicalBear

's ISO, but if this post is the only post from their ISO indicates

traitor hint

, then I think

Something_Smart

is the scum.

Why the fuck am I alive?

I think if scum!SS has at least 1 person who townread him or is at least not the very bottom of PoE, it's beneficial for him to keep himself alive here and play out the last day against a scummy towny or with someone who leantowns him. again salsa comes across like conceding scum to me I don't think a quickhammer would be super devastating to him

Unless

if SS is bottom of PoE right now, if he is then I suppose it makes sense to sow WIFOM and try to get something going. Cause if it's fairly close-and-shut that he dies after Salsa, then quickhammering Salsa does NOT help with that. At least abstaining and seeing what happens could potentially create an advantage for him (Such as if Salsa dies without his help, then the next day it can be argued "Why wouldn't I kill Salsa when I'm on the brink of dying?"

[Morning Tweet]

maybe

but i still think it's just salsa here

like implo makes a case and salsa immediately throwing her reads upside down and agreeing with it isn't a good look

also pooky hard townreading salsa d2-d4 for 'enthusiasm' or whatever reason could be considered just as much of a soft

That Pooky SS conversation is kinda decent though

The odds of him referring kinda oddly to scum/SS exactly don't seem terribly high -- and additionally, Pooky is definitely the kind of player to go for softing traitor. I am nearly certain he did it somewhere if not there

Unless I suppose implo had other points that Salsa fell head over heels for earlier. But that right off the bat is fairly convincing to me

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Salsabil Faria

I want to see how you guys (town) save your a** now. GG.

This is the lamest post regardless of your alignment. really.

Of Scum, you seem to have given up (or maybe you are playing the "I am a pissed townie" card??).

If Town, then WHERE IS YOUR SOLVE? Self-voting without making any attempts to defend yourself and/or make a case on someone is BAD PLAY, plain and simple.

MY PERSONA: TAKE: Salsa feels bad already for having shot her traitor, and has indeed given up. Given that we are 4-1 now I have no problem removing her anyway, and IF I am mistaking then we still have another shot tomorrow.

VOTE: salsabil

(I don't really remember if I had already done that, but if I did then this is my confirmation)

Definitely agreed with this solve until I joined the game (traitor kill thing included)

The scum kill on Pooky has some interesting implications. It implies that scum thought they weren't the traitor; this means either some combination of they had a genuine townread on Pooky, and Pooky didn't look like the traitor to them. In this situation I feel like going for the safest possible not-the-traitor kill would be a pretty reasonable position, and I also think Pooky is the kind of player who would happily bus as a traitor (especially given 1, we already saw this, and 2, the traitor apparently could inherit the kill). Moreover in this situation with 1 scum + traitor alive going into night compounding with probably fear that they'll shoot the traitor, scum is pretty unlikely to kill someone that's adamantly calling them town.

Oh also I just realized that assuming A50 is town, we can now read Pooky's reaction to the fake neap guilty as possibly a genuine reaction to thinking he'd been guiltied. There's not a ton there from that reading that I see but it is amusing. The main thing is just that Pooky had pretty adamantly been calling Salsabil town near the end of the day. It seems a little wild for scum-Salsabil to shoot Pooky here. Maybe she was convinced I was the traitor or something but even then if Pooky's gonna support her then idk.

i am curious to hear possible explanations (from SS or Scipio I assume) for why Salsa would ever kill Pooky in that case

So you do agree it's salsabil.... or scipio. Yes??

Yeah.

My reads right now are (town) implosion - A50 - (sizable gap) - Scipio - (reasonable gap) - Salsa (scum).

@Mod, I hurt my right hand pretty badly by doing a household chores :cry: and I'm a right handed person :facepalm: which makes typing from the left hand very hard for me :( I want to take 24 hours V/LA to see if my hand is getting better durning this time. Sorry for the trouble again. :(

I think I was actually leaning Scipio scum over Salsa before Salsa went V/LA.

Now I think we just have to wait for the replacement.

Are you referring to a different VLA? If not, what's up with this "I was leaning Scipio scum before" comment?

you mention Salsa as your strongest scum by a reasonable gap, is there a reason in particular you didn't vote for her? She was at 0 votes until just a bit before the V/la and to be honest I was somewhat sold she was scum myself

[Morning Tweet]

A50 seems like town to me and it doesn't seem like anyone feels to the contrary

a50 is pretty much always town from that flip

I also trust whatever this refers to is correct

Spoiler:

we are definitely going off-wagon for the elim today.

VC 1.17

Not voting (2):

Something_Smart, implosion

Not_Mafia (1):

Minimegabyte

Dunnstral (1):

Salsabil Faria

Battle Mage (1):

Artemiana

Artemiana (7) (HAMMER)

:

Battle Mage, Not_Mafia, PenguinPower, PookyTheMagicalBear, Scipio1, Almost50, Save The Dragons

Something_Smart (1):

Dunnstral

With 7 votes, Artemiana has been eliminated. They were a

Mafia Goon

Night 1 ends in (expired on 2021-03-20 00:21:14)

Who do you suspicious of most from the off-wagon?

This is probably what tricked salsabil into shooting Pooky.

she killed pooky for saying he preferred an off-wagon elim that included her early in the game, even though he (so I'm told) hard townread her later in the game? Unsure that'd happen

[Morning Tweet]

hi MT!

Are you referring to a different VLA? If not, what's up with this "I was leaning Scipio scum before" comment?

No I was not, and I think it's pretty self-explanatory? I was leaning Scipio scum before Salsa's V/LA. I didn't say anything about it.

you mention Salsa as your strongest scum by a reasonable gap, is there a reason in particular you didn't vote for her?

because I like taking my time and hate making decisions?

You had Salsa as scum over Scipio with a "reasonable gap" before Salsa went V/ka, that's what I'm referring to. I ask because it seems potentially helpful for you to pivot here while still keeping Scipio in your sights

And I suppose that's fair, although I was under the impression new content wasn't really poppin off so if you had her by a decent margin, well.. it'd be better than you being eliminated

[Morning Tweet]

wtf do you mean by "the traitor is hiding purposely" isn't that like... the point of the game???

lmfao

I don't know what this (presumably) neapolitan - traitor fake claim reaction test whatever business by A50 is but i think there's more evidence for him being town in those pages

Is this allowed that the last scum and the traitor can give hints to each other in the day phase?

..

it's too obvious an answer to be true i promise you hahaha

At the moment it comes across to me as most likely SS but i have paranoia for implosion as so far I mostly noticed him defend Salsa which is correct but also interestingly is a take that seems unique to him. I wonder just how scummy Salsa has been (or what implo's reasoning for TRing there is). i must learn more!!

And Scipio i thought came across as genuine in areas

STD is a really unfortunate name acronym, i like dragons a lot more for them

[Morning Tweet]

it's between implo and dunn for me

implo cuz battle mage got shot last night and he was all up for killing implo

dunn cuz he's literally done nothing except push town.

maybe they're both baddies who knows.

let's wait for Sergeant Salsa to check in and then pick one of these two to yeet.

I see that Pooky would be distancing implo. I wish i knew whether or not he'd do that to a partner, cause apparently Pooky was so widely townread the mafia were fooled so it *is* possible he thought he could win on his own if the bus went all the way through

HEy! I just realized this is sort of a second 1v1 situation between me and S_S coming just a single game after the last one. Well kinda. I guess im not sure it's him yet although i'm getting the impression it'd be a lot simpler for it to be him rather than implo

SS makes a lot of succinct observations, statements and the like, there's just nothing that really gives him negative equity with flipped scum nor anything that seems hard to fake that ive seen so far. But to be fair, it's the way SS usually plays

Spoiler:

Follower
N1 followed STD and they went nowhere

wait then why do you think i'm scum?

Cause there is still a possibilty

You could be the traitor or the other scum and you had your buddy do the kill it doesn't clear you

err the buddy was dead though?

Now this is something special

I see pooky did more to bus implo, like he was on implo even before the BM nightkill happened. On day two! Was Pooky so townread then that he'd have the confidence to go it alone as a traitor? he did seem like he was trying to get that thru asap to me and that is also coming off of bussing the last one. Could pooky do it, totally, although thats a lot less simple than he tried to soft to SS and Art exactly and thats it

I presume that Art was really scummy or a big candidate at the time, so asking SS if Art is scum just makes sense as a question. adding on "Are you scum?" seems so pointless for that stage in the game. But Pooky jests so you wouldnt really think about it

good cop...ok....

"Golly gosh, gee whiz, I didn't mean to offend with my vote! You're innocent until proven guilty, and I'll give you every chance to get yourself off the hook. But you need to help me, help you. Otherwise I won't be able to keep you safe from that trolly Penguin and the Pookster. Just confide in me, tell me the truth - are you scum? Is that why you've been brazenly trying to kill the good guys? I can get you a good lawyer, maybe just a suspended sentence. But you need to start talking."

I love this

[Morning Tweet]

Detective Mage Cow is a natural at this

This might be the best Animal Police Department I've ever been a part of

does that mean i might have been a part of it!!? Nooooo, i show up late and now the department is completely vacated!

I'm just now realizing I have accidentally skipped really far back, that or ive just been plowing through these pages but somehow i dont think i got this far

Damn its just now hitting me how often Pooky busses for someone who proclaims to never sell out his fellow partners when its possible for him to do anything else. Like he doesnt bus like mad but he totally does ive seen it like at least two times which isnt that many but it is when he says he will never bus

I dont know my main thought through reading through here is that im jealous i didnt get to be in the fanfiction really. All the talkative players are fucking dead too bro

i would have definitely bought this Mini case by implo myself to be honest. That's the kind of tell (engagement and activity) that will get me as mafia and i would probably guess it applies to Mini

I think it was highly likely Artemiana was getting run up as soon as the Pooky-Penguin-NotMafia-BM block all voted there. There was no alternative wagon of any consequence. It was incredibly predictable, and I think a scum PR probably wants to be jumping on there late to get some cred which they will need to see them through.

You're right it would be really bad for their partner to lose them, but it was also looking inevitable earlier than you suggest.

yea but it makes no sense for SS-scum to soft-defend the latewagoners - he needs every mis-elim he can get at this point

scum should be trying to broaden POE not shrink it.

I'd kill Implo over SS any day of the week tho I'm not even sure I want to limit the elim to those two slots.

Think, think, think..

I think you are underestimating how bad it is for scum to lose a member D1. Follower becomes a cop. Jailkeeper becomes even stronger than a cop. Artemiana wasn't a consensus execution until those late people jumped on-- she hadn't even given any content.

I think it was highly likely Artemiana was getting run up as soon as the Pooky-Penguin-NotMafia-BM block all voted there. There was no alternative wagon of any consequence. It was incredibly predictable, and I think a scum PR probably wants to be jumping on there late to get some cred which they will need to see them through.

You're right it would be really bad for their partner to lose them, but it was also looking inevitable earlier than you suggest.

Mindmelding w/ BM on this one. At least, I'm guessing i would have, i havent actually read that far back yet. When a block of trustable townies vote somebody (even just a few) and theres no CW in sight without u having to create your own case, votes on that wagon after that point do not matter one way or the other. It's like a formality in my opinion

I was willing to believe that Salsa's first dumbtell could be faked but this one seems quite unlikely to be fake. I think she's probably just town.

agreed
UNVOTE:

Whatever this is not true anymore?

Artemiana being so pissed off makes me think it slightly more likely they were being bussed.

This is actually an interesting theory

I would say that the most likely busser (aside from STD who doesn't count) is you, but I'm not sure I feel that way now because you were the first one to bring this up.

You talk a lot like i do when I'm scum, although I'm starting to head into confirm bias

(I see the townslips now, I certainly buy them at least (・ω<) I honestly dont think Salsa would try that as a scum tactic. Seems that you dont feel so strongly about it anymore?)

[Morning Tweet]

damn this thread is hoppin' need to go back and reread all that's been posted since day 2 before i vote, but...

in hindsight, i think it's likely that penguin hid behind n_m after crumbing it

i'd like to go off wagon today

What does this

crumbing

mean exactly? And where did he do that on

Not_Mafia

? Cause I'm thinking it's

implosion

?

crumbing (from bread crumbing, the hansel and gretal story) means leaving behind a hint about a role. this is the crumb i think

Artemiana, more like LyingClodpole.

where he uses n_m verbiage of "clodpole" from the beginning of the day to indicate where he is hiding. an astute scum may have actually figured that out...

Oh yes that is right, the N1 NM nightkill. If NM played d1 to his typical m.o. (and i mean he did talk more than im used to but he certainly wasnt the one to catch Art), why would Salsa ever kill there, I wonder? Would be open to hearing others thoughts on that

Also, it was completely necessary for Penguin to crumb the visit as a weak role and that was p much undisputedly the crumb. Does scum know the exact power roles town has ? Yes they do, well, the ones town "can have" anyway.

- Neopolitan
- Jailkeeper
- Follower
- Doctor
- Weak Hider
- Innocent Child (revealed start of Day 1)

Only one of these always crumbs a visit. Dragons is definitely on the mark with this, I mean i guess that was obvious given the night kill was not mafia but whatever -- my greater point being that I don't think Salsa would have realized the clodpole idea nor would she have the familiarity with the setup to know to even look for someone saying they're about to visit someone. Thats something a really savvy goon would do cause Weak Hider should ALWAYS crumb their visit, that just makes sense

Additionally given that she apparently didnt realize traitors are allowed to secretly communicate, I dont think she knows what crumbing is at all anyway

So the kill on the traitor? Seems really bad for Salsa (esp given that she didnt know the traitor and maf could communicate!) and convinced me as an outsider. But this one? No, it'd never happen because in part that she couldn't have read a crumb! And that would mean that she

just happened

to attack Not Mafia of all people (I guarantee you there were better, like BM and Dragons for instance if they were townread D1 like they are later ??) when it

just happened

to be the perfectly optimal play for a savvy mafia to make. i dont see this possibility.

And this was stuff that was agreed on by both SS and Scipio! Until the elim pool got reduced down, anyway. Enough talking about Salsa though

@implo: Why speak against it when it works directly against him if he is scum? I mean, the "tone" of that post sounds "unpleased" with it

I feel like you're demonstrating exactly why he would do that

Especially considering what SS thinks about how the traitor works wont change how it works

we are definitely going off-wagon for the elim today.

I can't find it now but whoever used this as speculation for why Salsa kills Pooky, it just seems so.. 'particular'. This was days before Pooky was killed, not directed at Salsa in particular, never caused anything bad for Salsa, and also Pooky advocated for Salsa being town at least a couple times in the days to follow. I would never come to the conclusion that this makes Salsa feel he's a good kill when he explicitly calls her town and this only calls her out in the most indirect of ways AND was on a previous day anyway! This was day two, no?

[Morning Tweet]

yes i do feel accomplished solving that Salsa is not mafia thank you for asking

[Morning Tweet]

Although I guess this answers my implo question earlier, I do think i would find Salsa as comparable to A50 towniness-wise in my own reads at this point in the game. I do not find this unusual from implo

I instead find it somewhat unusual that Scipio/SS discard their previous feelings

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler:

Not_Mafia was killed Night 1. They were a

Vanilla Townie

PenguinPower was found dead Day 2. They were a

Town Weak Hider

Day 2 begins.

EXACTLY! This is PROOF he didn't die hiding behind N_M

Uh... Show your work?

What do you mean? N_M died at night, PP died at the start of the day. The two did not die "simultaneously". I thought YOU should explain that as a member of the NRG.

Lol wat since when is that how it works

What is this though why is the kill flavour different? I see now it was confirmed to not be anything. Still I guess i can never be too sure A50 is town

I don't really see anything that looks like a crumb in Penguin's recent posting but I didn't look all that far back. It's entirely possible he'd hide behind N_M tbh.

My soul wants to believe thissss

I'm at BM 463 for real now ahahaha

Wheres that post by Dragons where they mention SS being frustrated with the minimal amount of shitposting is peculiar? Is that usually something you care about, or was it this game in particular? It hasnt really seemed so bad to me

Does seem kind of annoying that everyone kinda just trickles on Art and joke around as they do I guess, right around that wagon forming it was probably at its peak from what ive read so far

Oh I see the part where the three pillars of town vote Art and basically sentence her to death. Still have not seen a single gameplay related post from Art yet, was she actually in this game? Funny though -- only BM gives reasoning and it aint bad but it *is* only one person with a bunch of basically sheep votes and the reasoning relies on Art being absent/weakly present. A strong voice could have started suspicion somewhere if they really wanted.

Although if Art doesnt start playing I guess she really was dead, that would be pretty annoying to play. Also it kind of made Pooky just seem like a town block bro and not the traitor

Like, seriously.. SIX players have posted less than N_M??

Why is that something worth mentioning

Because nm is a notoriously low content player.

Holy shit how does that happen

There must have been quite some time to get a wagon going on anyone other than Art surely? So much time to speak up and be listened to by less than active players, right?

Actually kind of serious question to the audience (or Implo themself):

Is implo that type of player?

As in, are you likely to take control and get your own reads pushed through if it's beneficial to you, or are you more likely to make observations and really only take control when you're quite certain (so more passive). I ask because it feels like when a mafia elim based on like relatively nothing early goes through, a strong mafia voice could have prevented it if they like, but if the other mafia is passive, they cant really do much at all

I want to say implo had a hand in Dunn/Mini getting axed (especially Mini i remember a large case!). So if implo is scum, why doesnt something come out early game? They're not even voting page 14 of d1 (a few pages b4 art wagon starts)

VC 1.12

Not voting (2):

Something_Smart, implosion

beep.
I agree artemiana is wrong that it's wrong to wagon someone who's V/LA but like, from a pragmatics perspective it's sort of wrong (in that it's less useful) and I don't think her reaction is especially scum-indicative.

@STD: I probably will vote at some point idk. But also I think it's a pretty good meme if I don't until S_S does. If there's something that tickles my fancy enough I could.

lul

and it appears they didnt reallly have any plans to do anything after the wagon either, unless they really felt the need to

(im not asking this stuff for SS as I already know he's more of an observant player than one who usually throws his vote around to get stuff going)

[Morning Tweet]

This game's been going on since the beginning of march? how come i can read it all in like 3 hours

im a wolf

Isnt wolf another word for scum? If so that’s a very open scum claim

lmao i'm a furry dude

I am really surprised nobody else pushed that as a traitor crumb, holy hell. master splinter is no wolf

imploscum can't keep up with our good vibes so he's putting up the white flag and bailing hard.

I dont know i feel like this is Pooky genuinely poking at a townie implo here and generally in the early game (Granted yes this is stupid early lol, but pooky continues trying to suspect / get implo killed to his death does he not?)

Maybe could argue the early joking was Pooky trying to show he "knew" implo was scum but like he was trying to kill implo for real later in the game so :I

Obviously he was on Art too, but that wasn't his own choice, that was BM's. Implo was fully his choice and he was pooky's first

Alright that's the whole thing. I've been mafia starved

[Morning Tweet]

So as it stands I think A50 and Salsa(from an outside perspective) are the towniest. If you only focus on the traitor kill and Salsa's concession, she's a very sensible suspect, however, look at the slips that *we all seemed to agree* she did and compare that to the NM kill. Does that ever happen?

Scipio is like a soul townread, I dont have a solid case but he comes across as genuine to me.

Implosion I do want to hear more about their playstyle -- but from what I can tell from their approach to Mini/Dunn, why couldnt they have been actively doing something D1? Art could have lived considering she basically went down to next to nothing. Yeah it got snowballed out of control I suppose and the "townblock" of sorts had a solid grasp on her, but a second wagon? A second suspect of sorts? Anything? No one was playing d1 apparently! Implo could do it on the other days, so why not there i suppose. If it is more typical for implo to take a back seat though, then this point is perhaps less strong

The traitorrrr crumbbbb. Pooky would have tried to signal the mafia in the four days he spent living, I have no doubt in my mind he tried. Does it seem like he was trying to signal to implo, or does it seem like he was trying to kill implo at every opportunity (yes "kill" is a bit dramatic, but relative to how strong pushes seem to be this game)? it seemed like the second to me. And he doesnt do much with SS besides mention he greatly prefers implo to him once and also maybe maybe mayyybe signal traitor to him.

Who is agreeing with me on Salsa, well just implo it seems. Kind of surprising although again, if you forget those particular bits I think she comes off like a really sensible kill. Still! Why are we forgetting those parts?

As for why SS doesn't just off her while he can -- SS isn't lying about being pretty laid back with his vote, i can buy it I think. He would have had to start the wagon or quickhammer it. Probably neutral on that overall

i cannot wait to talk to somebody sometime! Well, this is like my most active time frame i can play and if nobody's around now... (・・;) oh well I'm sure it'll be alright!

[Morning Tweet]

I mean implo also tried to argue that Pooky pushing me was a soft so like

excuse me for not totally trusting his judgement there

Hold on, "Pooky pushing you"?

The closest Pooky got to pushing you the entire game was here (you're at 1 vote at the time):

Spoiler:

SS putting on his detective hat now

I like it.

who's scum here SS?

It sounds like you don't want to join the townblock :O

wait wtf you answered maybe to "are you scum?"

VOTE: SS

LOLOLOL

Which is followed immediately by this return to Art and more favourable stance on you anyway:

Ok let's give her a nice welcome home from Vacay

VOTE: Artemiana

SS putting on his detective hat now

I like it.

who's scum here SS?

He never talks about you ever again from this point on except once to say this:

SS townbinned for trying to nerf the mafia team midgame lololololol

-

And about the soft itself -- he wasn't pushing you. The first time he ever engages with you is this:

are you being pushed by scum?

is arte scum?

are you scum?

answer at least one of the above.

Which led into the aforementioend shit-push that lasted all of 30 seconds. This is his first engagement with you, and i've now listed every other interaction he ever had with you in this post of mine

So what exactly about implo's stance seems untrustworthy here? I feel like your portrayal of it as "Pooky pushing you" is somewhat disingenuous and not really true. 384 is an odd thing to randomly ask. Especially combined with how Pooky would almost certainly try to signal his buddies *somewhere*, I am convinced of that

[Morning Tweet]

I think it was highly likely Artemiana was getting run up as soon as the Pooky-Penguin-NotMafia-BM block all voted there. There was no alternative wagon of any consequence. It was incredibly predictable, and I think a scum PR probably wants to be jumping on there late to get some cred which they will need to see them through.

You're right it would be really bad for their partner to lose them, but it was also looking inevitable earlier than you suggest.

yea but it makes no sense for SS-scum to soft-defend the latewagoners - he needs every mis-elim he can get at this point

scum should be trying to broaden POE not shrink it.

I'd kill Implo over SS any day of the week tho I'm not even sure I want to limit the elim to those two slots.

okayyy i forgot about these pooky mentions of SS but neither of these are pushing SS either

Point is, there's more to the soft than "pushing SS" -- calling it simply "pushing SS" makes it sound weak (since pooky pushes a lot of people), but in reality he never pushed SS + that's not even why the soft is odd

[Morning Tweet]

i'm so tempted to just hammer s_s rn

mt who do you think is scummier between implo and s_s?

It seems most likely to me that SS is last scum standing

i find it more likely right now that scum would take advantage of A50's SR on Salsa here than TR Salsa strongly as implo does. I think SS has the most convenient/odd approach to Salsa overall:

Umm, but if he targeted Not_Mafia at N1, then why he isn't alive?

...Because N_M died?

I was willing to believe that Salsa's first dumbtell could be faked but this one seems quite unlikely to be fake. I think she's probably just town.

This is the tell that *strongly* implies that Salsa wouldn't make the NM kill. She seems to have no idea how Hider works

AND we learn later she doesn't know how crumbing works (since she thinks it's not allowed) so how in god's name would she know to look for a hider visit crumb anyway?

I am taking this as confirmation SS agrees with that not being faked. However..

Salsa -> me -> Scipio for the remaining claim order?

I see why Scipio would be spewed town.

I do not see why Salsa would be spewed town.

Seems to have Salsa at the lowest back here

s_s who do you think is scum

Neither Salsa nor A50 are making a lot of sense to me right now. I think I would favor Salsa being scum because A50 is known not to make sense as town, and he was on the Artemiana wagon besides.

So you do agree it's salsabil.... or scipio. Yes??

Yeah.

My reads right now are (town) implosion - A50 - (sizable gap) - Scipio - (reasonable gap) - Salsa (scum).

And he consistently does have her lowest. Even though he finds that A50 isn't making sense the day before pooky dies, he does agree with him that Salsa is scummiest the following day -- i assume cause of this:

Spoiler:

we are definitely going off-wagon for the elim today.

VC 1.17

Not voting (2):

Something_Smart, implosion

Not_Mafia (1):

Minimegabyte

Dunnstral (1):

Salsabil Faria

Battle Mage (1):

Artemiana

Artemiana (7) (HAMMER)

:

Battle Mage, Not_Mafia, PenguinPower, PookyTheMagicalBear, Scipio1, Almost50, Save The Dragons

Something_Smart (1):

Dunnstral

With 7 votes, Artemiana has been eliminated. They were a

Mafia Goon

Night 1 ends in (expired on 2021-03-20 00:21:14)

Who do you suspicious of most from the off-wagon?

This is probably what tricked salsabil into shooting Pooky.

Scipio also agrees Salsa scummiest right after, momentum against was fantastic here and i dont think it would have been hard to notice (i did as an observer assume she was scum)

Salsa votes herself, A50 votes, A50 unvotes, A50 revotes, then implo starts a wagon on S_S that A50 joins. Scipio puts Salsa to E-1.

That all happens over the span of 4ish days and there is very little content in there. Notably S_S had ~2-3 days to vote Salsa (his strongest scumread) or mention anything about her, but chooses not to

The only thing he does in this time frame is say "Don't rush it", argue against the potential pooky traitor soft to him, appeal to A50 a bit, and then ask Scipio why he's rushing it

There's like 2 extra days where nothing happens from anybody, THEN and only then does Salsa rep out and SS like, immediately comments on it being frustrating

Now granted Salsa isn't doing anything and he's probably interested in primarily observing her I suppose, but he doesn't actively put anything out for her to respond to as far as I can see. Also, Salsa straight up asks to be eliminated and SS doesn't vote or comment on that -- he instead kinda-shades Scipio for voting her in response and says nothing else

Afterward the rep out SS says he was actually preferring Scipio over Salsa so i think the idea here is pretty clear; have Salsa die and then have Scipio take the fall for it. I think the hope is A50 decides to axe Salsa (And A50 has been very adamant about that read thus far) and then 1v1 Scipio tomorrow. SS probably loses if he kills off Salsa himself I think, so he's banking on that happening.

I feel like this has a decent chance of being true because SS just doesnt give the appearance of someone who's sold Salsa is scum (he's at 2 votes and he never votes even when salsa is at 0-1!) nor that of someone who is truly suspicious of Scipio either. If he really were thinking Scipio was the true scum (or that there's a sizable chance of that), then where's the energy? Why does he even think it could be Scipio now (overriding his "sizable gap" between Salsa and Scipio earlier), is it just because of 1378? Cause nothing else seemed to have happened and if SS did his own independent analysis you'd think he'd show something of it

and again why are we forgetting that Salsa couldn't have killed NM?!?!?!

[Morning Tweet]

Uh as for implo, Pooky's somewhat bussy stances towards him, him not forgetting why Salsa is town, and mm I kind of want to say he would have had any kind of scumread D1 during the period where Art was being (mainly) shitpushed cause anything would have worked there. But gotta see if implo is a player who would be more likely to do that first

Actually kind of serious question to the audience (or Implo themself): Is implo that type of player? As in, are you likely to take control and get your own reads pushed through if it's beneficial to you, or are you more likely to make observations and really only take control when you're quite certain (so more passive). I ask because it feels like when a mafia elim based on like relatively nothing early goes through, a strong mafia voice could have prevented it if they like, but if the other mafia is passive, they cant really do much at all

As scum I mostly just try to get by and do whatever I can that looks town. I am quite sure that I would not have tried to come to Artemiana's defense in this game as scum. I feel like scum probably felt like she was dead weight with how she reacted to the v/la pressure. That said, I also wouldn't describe what I did as coming to her defense and it might be something I'd have done as scum. Tbh it's hard to be sure bc she was the only other non-traitor scum in the game and I'm not sure if I would have tried to join the crusade or whatever.

also jesus you have so much more motivation than anyone else alive right now lol

I don't mean so much come to Art's defense (I mean, there really was no defense there) as actually be a strong voice doing anything anywhere. Like, i could imagine a louder push overriding the Art one since there wasn't really too much substance behind it early (just 1 post by BM and that was IT for a long time until there was a little more by either BM or NM i forget) and the voters were pretty volatile (at least Pooky and NM). Combine that with how 6-7 players had less posts than NM? The game was pretty much begging for someone to take control of it but scum seemed to be content letting it progress naturally and that got Art killed

What made me think you'd be capable of doing this was that pretty lengthy and convincing case on Mini on a later day. I strongly get the impression had scum done something like that D1, heat would have gone off of Art. Or it at least would have been a fairly decent plan of attack

^w^

[Morning Tweet]

hiya SS and A50! been a minute

And hello implosion n Scipio as well!

Hi there. IF you're Town; I sure hope you can convince me. Unfortunately your predecessor couldn't.

Hmmmmm, well lemme grab the stuff tailored to convincing you that it is in fact not me/Salsa

i've been super rambly and I can't imagine anyone is actually bothering to read everything I'm saying so here's the important bits on that topic:

damn this thread is hoppin' need to go back and reread all that's been posted since day 2 before i vote, but...

in hindsight, i think it's likely that penguin hid behind n_m after crumbing it

i'd like to go off wagon today

What does this

crumbing

mean exactly? And where did he do that on

Not_Mafia

? Cause I'm thinking it's

implosion

?

crumbing (from bread crumbing, the hansel and gretal story) means leaving behind a hint about a role. this is the crumb i think

Artemiana, more like LyingClodpole.

where he uses n_m verbiage of "clodpole" from the beginning of the day to indicate where he is hiding. an astute scum may have actually figured that out...

Oh yes that is right, the N1 NM nightkill. If NM played d1 to his typical m.o. (and i mean he did talk more than im used to but he certainly wasnt the one to catch Art), why would Salsa ever kill there, I wonder? Would be open to hearing others thoughts on that

Also, it was completely necessary for Penguin to crumb the visit as a weak role and that was p much undisputedly the crumb. Does scum know the exact power roles town has ? Yes they do, well, the ones town "can have" anyway.

- Neopolitan
- Jailkeeper
- Follower
- Doctor
- Weak Hider
- Innocent Child (revealed start of Day 1)

Only one of these always crumbs a visit. Dragons is definitely on the mark with this, I mean i guess that was obvious given the night kill was not mafia but whatever -- my greater point being that I don't think Salsa would have realized the clodpole idea nor would she have the familiarity with the setup to know to even look for someone saying they're about to visit someone. Thats something a really savvy goon would do cause Weak Hider should ALWAYS crumb their visit, that just makes sense

Additionally given that she apparently didnt realize traitors are allowed to secretly communicate, I dont think she knows what crumbing is at all anyway

So the kill on the traitor? Seems really bad for Salsa (esp given that she didnt know the traitor and maf could communicate!) and convinced me as an outsider. But this one? No, it'd never happen because in part that she couldn't have read a crumb! And that would mean that she

just happened

to attack Not Mafia of all people (I guarantee you there were better, like BM and Dragons for instance if they were townread D1 like they are later ??) when it

just happened

to be the perfectly optimal play for a savvy mafia to make. i dont see this possibility.

And this was stuff that was agreed on by both SS and Scipio! Until the elim pool got reduced down, anyway. Enough talking about Salsa though

we are definitely going off-wagon for the elim today.

I can't find it now but whoever used this as speculation for why Salsa kills Pooky, it just seems so.. 'particular'. This was days before Pooky was killed, not directed at Salsa in particular, never caused anything bad for Salsa, and also Pooky advocated for Salsa being town at least a couple times in the days to follow. I would never come to the conclusion that this makes Salsa feel he's a good kill when he explicitly calls her town and this only calls her out in the most indirect of ways AND was on a previous day anyway! This was day two, no?

So as it stands I think A50 and Salsa(from an outside perspective) are the towniest. If you only focus on the traitor kill and Salsa's concession, she's a very sensible suspect, however, look at the slips that *we all seemed to agree* she did and compare that to the NM kill. Does that ever happen?

[Morning Tweet]

for the record i too want to hammer SS but i also want to actually have some time to talk, see what I'm understanding correctly about the game and what I'm not.

in particular i don't want to miss something that i should have noticed incriminating scipio or implo cause I don't have them perfectly set away in my mind like I do A50/Salsa. Implo maybe getting there

[Morning Tweet]

This is the tell that *strongly* implies that Salsa wouldn't make the NM kill. She seems to have no idea how Hider works AND we learn later she doesn't know how crumbing works (since she thinks it's not allowed) so how in god's name would she know to look for a hider visit crumb anyway?

is there a reason Salsa couldn't have killed NM for a reason other than the crumb?

Why would you ever kill NM over Penguin/BM/Pooky/Dragons though? Especially BM and Dragons who were already valid kills at the time and remained valid kills on the later nights so the killer wasnt keeping them alive intentionally or anything. There might even be more players im missing but you get the idea, there were quite a few active targets on Art and in the town bloc bros

even if you're not familiar with him, NM had less presence than all those players and when he was there he wasn't really scumhunting much. Yeah he got Art right by joining the wagon but he was poised to go after Mini next

I mean just playing the odds here, what are the chances Salsa kills NM on whatever whim and that just also accidentally happens to be the smartest move possible -- versus someone killing NM because they

knew

it was correct? The kill in of itself heavily suggests that mafia knew to me, there were at least 5-6 reasonable targets!

If there is potentially a good reason for someone to kill NM (outside of the crumb) or a good reason for Salsa specifically that you have in mind, that would be good to hear cause it makes your position more believable. However as it is I feel that if mafia spots the crumb they kill NM 100% (no other role would crumb visit so hard end of day really) and there isn't a good reason to kill him outside of that

[Morning Tweet]

i am glad i could remind everyone of the N1 kill, i suppose it's been a while

I am on S_S already, so there's not much I can do in this regard. implo -in my own PoV- is 100% clear (an additional reason is him going against the flow and pushing S_S instead of just accepting the Salsa lim)

Why's implo clear for you? But if that is really so that's good enough for me then

just scipio and SS

Although i dont really think it's scipio

[Morning Tweet]

I see my predecessor thought it was scipio so ill look at that

Spoiler:

salsa why do you townread s_s and pooky

I'm sheeping

PookytheMagicalBear

here, also I played with them in another game where they were a town, their playstyle seems the same.

Something_Smart

's posts don't give me any scum/negative vibe yet, seems town to me.

So you think s_s is town because he hasn’t done anything scummy? In that case what have implo and I done that’s scummy to you?

Well, your lack of

genuine

scum-hunting. While I go through your ISO, I'll find a bunch of questions but no follow-up later. The rest of your posts don't give me town vibes. Examples:

63, 65: bad reason to townread anyone fmpov.

215: didn't state any reason.

258: maybe you started to push

Artemiana

here but didn't continue and after that you voted

Minimegabyte/the worst

slot on 278.

289: again

subtle

push to

Artemiana

and again not strongly follow that later but continue to stuck with

Minimegabyte/the worst

slot on 290.

291, 333, 365, 423: bunch of questions which I don't know lead you where as you didn't share with the rest of us.

435, 491: switched to

Artemiana

without giving any reason/read why you thought she could be scum.

660: voted me without giving any reason.

662: questioned me for the sake of questioning, why didn't you engage with me or anyone in particular throughout the whole game??

716: don't know how to feel about this post yet.

743: as usual, didn't give any reason for this read either.

751: then why

implosion

was on your FOS pool?

928, 1136, 1142, 1154, 1157: in these posts, you

thought

implosion

and

Dunnstral

have a decent chance to flip scum(s) but yet, you didn't voted them. Especially, with the

Dunnstral

wagon, when some of us asking you why you didn't vote

Dunnstral

, your answers were not townie at all. Now that I'm thinking again, I feel you (scum) and

Almost50

(traitor) is the solve.

983, 1001: these 2 posts makes thinks about the possibility of

implosion

being town here. Though I'm sheeping

PookytheMagicalBear

in this game,

implosion

actually is in my null list. I'll go through his ISO later, my health condition isn't fully improved yet.

1004: shading

implosion

without giving proper reason.

1095: voted

Minimegabyte/the worst

slot, even if the slot claimed TPR (there was not cc and

Almost50

was leading this slot's wagon in the meantime) and as usual not personal pov was given.

1163, 1176: throughout the game, you didn't say anything about suspecting

Something_Smart

, even you said on 743 that you're hard mindmelding with him, then suddenly what happened that you started to suspect him before you moved your target over me?

In the rest of the posts, you're townreading

Almost50

and scumreading me for that.

I'll ISO diving on

implosion

later and hopefully, the mod'll still keep the thread open until then.

sure but you literally mentioned stuff from d1 and d2

258/259: mini was scummy imo, i don't see what's wrong with the fact that i pushed her d1

291/333/365/423: yeah, they didn't lead anywhere really. so what?

435/491: i said i agreed with the points and also i said earlier that her push on pooky was bad

660: you saying "i didn't have a chance to have interactions with art because i was busy" just makes it sound like you would only had them for the sake of it

751: townier than two others doesn't make him town

928/1136/1142/1154/1157: first one i didn't vote because he wasn't a viable wagon, others i didn't vote because of l-1 and hammers, etc.

983/1001: confbiased logic

1095: calling only me out for it when both s_s and std did the same thing... also a50's logic made sense even though it was wrong

1163/1176: mindmeld doesn't mean town, and poe

I thought 258/259 were fairly natural looking. Also if Scipio wanted to distance a partner here i think he would have voted them, not shade her then start a wagon elsewhere. And he didnt do that to try and distract from Art's wagon -- there was no Art wagon at the time nor really that much heat on her. Nothing strong here though

Null on the question chain, thats probably more playstyle than anything so cant really say

435/491 -- No one gave reasoning for Art being scum really aside from BM. After all, she was gone for the duration of the wagon so there wasn't really anything else to add

660 -- That's actually a really interesting take, Salsa somewhat comes off like she was planning to or was otherwise fairly aware of having / not having interactions with Art. Idk how to explain but i think Scipios response to this suggests solving

928/1136/1142/1154/1157 -- Well it comes off like Dunn is an empty slot, so not a lot to contribute to that and voting there would have been somewhat less useful

I feel like Salsa needs to take larger context into mind when analyzing player motivations, just going down an ISO isn't enough you gotta look at the areas around the posts. Implo was the only one with a wagon anyway other than Mini

1095 -- mini was scummy

1163/1176 -- These are literally posts where Scipio has SS above other slots so idk what the point is here. SS seems like someone who got some townleans early but never fully infiltrated the town bloc and now he's slipping down PoE as suspects disappear

Not really getting any red flags here

[Morning Tweet]

idk man I'm kinda sold on 1420 and if nobody has anything to say that probably doesnt change

It also doesnt hurt that implo already thought it was SS and now just about everyone does

[Morning Tweet]

Oh yeah and the soft i forgot about that

[Morning Tweet]

Coulda just voted SS and done nothing else.

[Morning Tweet]

oki well

[Morning Tweet]

good enough fr me

[Morning Tweet]

ok well does anyone have anything left they wanna say

[Morning Tweet]

that was mineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Morning Tweet]

Ah, that traitor stuff was really unfortunate in that case :I

also <3 Tweetie for coming in and avenging me :)

you're welcome, i think? (xωx)

Thanks for modding Rockhopper! I had fun