DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[Mognet]

I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

This take is extremely surface level dude.
First off its not a fine method of reading it straight up isn't something that scum actually does and the logic behind it is ass. His play is town motivated if you aren't reading the game closely and you just see his posts on a glance and go "oh ya this is town ig" but to me it reads like he's doing everything to look town. I think his stance on total war comes from scum who wants to stand out in a playerlist where everyone just wants to get to the nukes. I think he's being anti-total war because if ur scum in this pl and you try to hard to actually want to play mafia, you're probably going to get townread by a bunch of people who just want to get to the nukes as quickly as possible. This also allows him to establish a platform or a "bloc" that he can invade to make sure he doesn't get nuked later. It's like the entire theme of his play.

Oh and also joq is probably town which means its more likely for the dude to be scum.

Entire theme of my play Church Kupo?

So now we’ve gone to “Hey I am trying to be town versus being town” to “oh yeah now he’s trying to townblock do he’s scum”

Like then you have to think a majority of Americans are Russians. Each player Russian hunts in their own way Kupo.

[The Church of Skitter]

Haven't been this confident in a scumread in a long time tbh.

On Mognet?

If so, why does Mognet's joqiza case being bad make them scummy?

-S

his body of work reads like he's trying too hard to get recognized as town

Then explain the difference. This seems like a naked claim.

Show and Town
Townies show other townies they're town. They don't need to tell others that they're town or exactly what it is that they're doing that makes them town, they just do and they appear town.
Scum want to tell other townie's that they're town and exactly what it is that they're doing that makes them town.

You read much like the ladder.

Also Townies desire to be right and so far you don't come across as wanting to be right.

[The Church of Skitter]

Show and Tell*

[Mognet]

I'm starting to scumread Mognet, I actually have a really hard time believing that his contributions are coming from town because ever since he replaced in it feels like he has just stayed in the thread ever since and when I actually read his posts I feel like a lot of his contributions are being overplayed and faked. It really looks like he wants to look like town rather than just be town. I also feel like he's using this replace in to try to leave a good impression on people.

1452 also kind of doesn't fly w/ me?

We can use this to validate if you are scum fear pushing Mastina or trying to replicate a “I always push Mastina” habit or an intentional bus or just you hate playing with Mastina enough it clouded your judgment.

Why would LLD fear mastina? I find it hard to believe that LLD as scum would fear anyone.
Why would she try to replicate a "I always push mastina" habit when she could be doing quite possibly anything else? An elim is an elim sure but I'm sure LLD has better options that she look for or create.
Also the "you just hate playing w/ mastina enough it clouded your judgment" seems really silly to me tbh.

Kupo what the fuck is this?
I replace in, poke people and get people to play mafia so I am scum?
Like getting reads or anything was pulling teeth.
And I can’t very well be leaving a good impression if I am not leaving a good impression like that entire paragraph is unintelligible word vomit Church Kupo.

If LLD is scum, then she would have reason to fear Mastina if LLD wants a game where no one is thinking. You’re picking at minutia to avoid the trees. The idea with that list was not to be an exclusive one but to say if/when LLD answers we can use it to sort her.

Ya bro you're trying way too hard and it comes across as scummy.

if LLD wanted a game where no one is thinking there are better players go after than mastina. She has no reason to fear her. It's also a pretty garbage sorting attempt that probably just gets re-evaluated later and does nothing. tbh we'll probably not even come back to it so it actually just does nothing

You have just repeated the same and I’m trying to hard??

Like this is not fruitful. I explain my thoughts Kupo. Then I narrow down on what’s right and wrong. I make hypothesis and adjust as time goes on.

[Mognet]

The issue is not that it is he is uncertain it’s what he is uncertain about. His actions are always inside his control. If we assume Joqiza an American, then alignments and reads are unknown to him. So reads “I think X is an American is fine”. However inability to commit to an action is a common scumtell. So Joqiza is in my pile until Joqiza has something actionable.

"common scumtell"
So you're actually not thinking at all because the game isn't this black and white. There are things like OMGUS and LAMIST and other buzzwords that people have used and historically speaking those things apparently catch scum but now those things end up being used by newer players that don't fundamentally understand how those things work along with other "common scumtells." To me this reads like you're just going after a "common scumtell" over actually use your brain and think "Is what this guy doing actually make him scum? Is this something that scum actually does? Why is he doing it? etc" and if you answered these questions then you'll find that your read is shit because you're going after a "common scumtell." It's a "common scumtell" so its gotta work!

Nothing almost ever is black and white Kupo.

Common scum tells are a great place to start.

Then if Joqiza does something that makes me townread them I reevaluate.

[Mognet]

I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst

Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.

BRO YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CATCHING UP YOU'VE JUST BEEN PLAYING SHUT THE FUCK UP

IF YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH UP AND READ THE GAME, GO FUCKING READ THE GAME INSTEAD OF PLAY

I can do both Kupo.

Read while quiet and respond when I do.

These are not mutually exclusive

[joqiza]

Mognet I guess I don't really understand your issue with me. When I say something like "I think I'll be more expressive" or "I think I'll hammer" it's predicated with "I think" because it's a prediction of future behavior. If I wanted to commit to this I'd say something like "I promise to hammer" (note at this point I have actually gone ahead and given that commitment to hammer.)

At any given point I try to communicate in a way that is accurate to how I feel in the game. It's worth pointing out too that there's nothing prevent scum from saying "I'll do X" and then just... finding a reason not to do it.

As I've said before, if your issue with me is that I'm uncertain in the first place I think that you portraying something which is not scummy as a scumtell. On D1 of any game town is operating with minimal information, and any given player you wagon is likely to flip town just from prior probability. Of course, it's patently ridiculous to use that as a reason not to lim anyone, so the reality is you need to make a judgement call on who at the table is likely to flip +scum above rand. Overall the nature of D1 doesn't justify inaction, but it does justify uncertainty.

To me it feels like you are SR'ing me for the way I express myself which is why I react strongly to it I guess. If that's not your point then please clarify but I'm pretty sure I'm just the kind of person who says "I think I'll do X" rather than "I'll do X" and it's not really like I'm going to change that.

[Mognet]

Moggers might be scum.

Ff9 Kupo say what now?

What are your other reads?

[gorilla]

I think church is trying to string up mognet over an incorrect scumread and it's scummy. I don't scumread joqizahim but mognet picking at someone for hedging is a perfectly fine method of reading and his overall play is very town motivated

Yay! I have erected a house for you to come in for my block. Who else is in it gorilla?

Also let Church do their thing. They’re trying to sort me. I am not sure if it’s a scum thing or not yet but it is weird. I think LLD/Church/Titus has at least one Russian but Titus’s response seems way more scummy than Church’s.

I think Titus seems like disconnected town. I wouldn't take that read to the bank but it's what my gut says

Regarding the block question, I think Bell is town because people who now him have insisted on it + he got up my butt about calling an early post of his scum and asked me about it later, like he didn't want to let go of it. marry made a post where they said they thought they had to submit a list of all the roles in order for the draft and i think that is much more likely to come from a town perspctive.

I understand why you dislike the hedginess of joqiza but he did make posts early where he pointed out the (bad) change to the draft system to be timing based and had wanted to try to exploit it in a protown fashion. Not locktown forever status maybe but I wouldn't want him irradiated early.

I had an early gutread on samantha based on her explanation surrounding voting against total war, didn't feel like something scum would lead off with. But that read is quite stale now, I haven't been paying attention to what she's said since then.

[gorilla]

Also agree with Et Al as town

[The Church of Skitter]

I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst

Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.

BRO YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CATCHING UP YOU'VE JUST BEEN PLAYING SHUT THE FUCK UP

IF YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH UP AND READ THE GAME, GO FUCKING READ THE GAME INSTEAD OF PLAY

I can do both Kupo.

Read while quiet and respond when I do.

These are not mutually exclusive

No you can't because you can't understand how we got to this point in time w/o having read the game.
Most scum say this and never actually read-up.
I want you to shut up.
I want you to read.
I want you to give the thread some fucking space to breathe.

And when you're done, then play.
Because I feel like you're just saying this w/o actually reading up, and its fine to not read the game just be honest with yourself about it. You don't have to read every game you replace into, but saying you will when you're not at all doing that and then accusing someone of limiting your catch-up time is wack

[The Church of Skitter]

I think I'll nuke the Mognet

[Mognet]

Mognet I guess I don't really understand your issue with me. When I say something like "I think I'll be more expressive" or "I think I'll hammer" it's predicated with "I think" because it's a prediction of future behavior. If I wanted to commit to this I'd say something like "I promise to hammer" (note at this point I have actually gone ahead and given that commitment to hammer.)

At any given point I try to communicate in a way that is accurate to how I feel in the game. It's worth pointing out too that there's nothing prevent scum from saying "I'll do X" and then just... finding a reason not to do it.

As I've said before, if your issue with me is that I'm uncertain in the first place I think that you portraying something which is not scummy as a scumtell. On D1 of any game town is operating with minimal information, and any given player you wagon is likely to flip town just from prior probability. Of course, it's patently ridiculous to use that as a reason not to lim anyone, so the reality is you need to make a judgement call on who at the table is likely to flip +scum above rand. Overall the nature of D1 doesn't justify inaction, but it does justify uncertainty.

To me it feels like you are SR'ing me for the way I express myself which is why I react strongly to it I guess. If that's not your point then please clarify but I'm pretty sure I'm just the kind of person who says "I think I'll do X" rather than "I'll do X" and it's not really like I'm going to change that.

Again it’s not your lack of commitment it’s what about.

You are in 100% control of your actions.
Uncertainty about some things is warranted

But “Maybe I will hammer or maybe I will vote” are things in your control. Unprompted maybes are just stretches for content more so than hunting.

[The Church of Skitter]

guys am I scum now?
I said I'll think and therefore am unsure in my action on if I will or will not nuke them

guys
guys
guys

[Mognet]

I think I'll nuke the Mognet

Nuke away Church. I will watch from dead thread assuming I am not saved or some such.

[samantha97]

is this alisae posting btw

[Mognet]

I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst

Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.

BRO YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CATCHING UP YOU'VE JUST BEEN PLAYING SHUT THE FUCK UP

IF YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH UP AND READ THE GAME, GO FUCKING READ THE GAME INSTEAD OF PLAY

I can do both Kupo.

Read while quiet and respond when I do.

These are not mutually exclusive

No you can't because you can't understand how we got to this point in time w/o having read the game.
Most scum say this and never actually read-up.
I want you to shut up.
I want you to read.
I want you to give the thread some fucking space to breathe.

And when you're done, then play.
Because I feel like you're just saying this w/o actually reading up, and its fine to not read the game just be honest with yourself about it. You don't have to read every game you replace into, but saying you will when you're not at all doing that and then accusing someone of limiting your catch-up time is wack

Reads are both high level and in the weeds.

People didn’t care before I posted. Now they do.

I would rather keep to my strategy which works for me.

You’re asking to give space to breathe but yet, there’s no damage to the thread?

So I have to respond to Alexandrian missives now but I am doing both. I just won’t spam the thread with every post like this one dude I know. Omg when he replaces in its sooo annoying. That guy just like posts every damn post of his replace in.

[joqiza]

Mognet when someone says "I think I'll go ahead and get myself a glass of water" do you start wondering "DAMN I wonder if they're going to get themselves a glass of water??? They said 'I think' that's so noncommital to whether they want that water or not."

That's what this push feels like to me.

[The Church of Skitter]

is this alisae posting btw

yes Mena might show up soon actually

[Titus]

Mognet, I am depressed. Me not liking something =/= scum necessarily. It's me seeking feedback.

I don't even read on subbing in. I don't expect you to have read the entire thread but I am annoyed when I have to use what mental energy I do have to do more than you with the data you ask for and I rarely review past games.

Also, by focusing on LLD's perceived bias you are defending mastina because you are attempting to cut down LLD's argument.

[The Church of Skitter]

sup fuckers

[gorilla]

I'll hammer when I get off work today, which should be around 6pm cst

Limiting my catch-up time is scummy Kupo especially with no reads.

BRO YOU HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN CATCHING UP YOU'VE JUST BEEN PLAYING SHUT THE FUCK UP

IF YOU'RE GOING TO CATCH UP AND READ THE GAME, GO FUCKING READ THE GAME INSTEAD OF PLAY

I can do both Kupo.

Read while quiet and respond when I do.

These are not mutually exclusive

No you can't because you can't understand how we got to this point in time w/o having read the game.
Most scum say this and never actually read-up.
I want you to shut up.
I want you to read.
I want you to give the thread some fucking space to breathe.

And when you're done, then play.
Because I feel like you're just saying this w/o actually reading up, and its fine to not read the game just be honest with yourself about it. You don't have to read every game you replace into, but saying you will when you're not at all doing that and then accusing someone of limiting your catch-up time is wack

Why are you talking about "space to breathe" when most of the game has agreed to pile onto mastina and fall asleep otherwise? Who is mognet not allowing to breathe here?

[Mognet]

Mognet when someone says "I think I'll go ahead and get myself a glass of water" do you start wondering "DAMN I wonder if they're going to get themselves a glass of water??? They said 'I think' that's so noncommital to whether they want that water or not."

That's what this push feels like to me.

Then you’re trivializing it Kupo. If someone said that IRL and I was at the fridge I would get it or ask them what they wanted. Again it’s not the uncertainty that is the question. It’s the motivation behind it and the context and the why. “I think I will vote” and “I think I will hammer” are common scum tells and if it’s really so nebulous you’d just move on and just hunt.

[gorilla]

VOTE: T3

I said I'd vote on the largest wagon but you don't need my help to push it through so I'm going to make a symbolic vote.

[The Church of Skitter]

NUKE: POOKYBEAR