Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[catboi]

What are your thoughts about how to use the 3 minigames?

I got into that in 167, put your townreads in the keep, do whatever for the others. I think trying to game the IC at the gate is a bit of a waste of time, mafia are going to choose who they want as IC no matter what so it's not like they can be forced into making a bad choice. I'm mostly indifferent to how people arrange themselves in the other two.

I was actually going to type a bit more but I want to save those thoughts until after the assignments are finalized.

I don't know that I agree that it only matters where we put out top town reads. I was thinking about how we can organize the groups, and if we put our collective top scum reads in the same area, we can analyze the mafia switch.

I don't know how it is best to distribute the scum reads, like should we pick out our top 3, or just put our top 2 in the same area, and I'm still thinking about which area would be best to do this experiment. Would love for us to talk about this lol

But basically, I don't like the idea

I got into that in 167, put your townreads in the keep, do whatever for the others.

I suppose you can try, but I'm not sure how useful it's likely to be. But I'm a little bit fatalistic about the idea of trying to corral scumreads in this phase. I suppose it can't hurt to try?

[Something_Smart]

I am curious still about S_S's guess on me and why it bothered him, because he didn't say anything about it more and while I appreciate him not outting it for fear it's correct

It was probably a rude thing to say regardless of whether it was right. Sorry.

I'm thinking it wasn't right though because if it was then you'd probably know why I said it.

[unwnd]

I don't think this PList is one that is full of numbskulls. I am enjoying the nuance of the conversations but don't want to just make this about winning arguments. Catboi came in and felt very polarized by the thread, and I imagine that behavior will be similar to any potential scum who are just idly sitting by. Infinity also proclaimed that catboi had an awkwardness to him and if I'm not wrong she kept it to herself because it seemed like it was just being swallowed in the greater battle going on.

I don't understand what "polarized" is supposed to mean

Your comments to me implied you weren't going to involve yourself with what was going on prior and instead talk around it, as suggested by you feeling it was a headache lol

I wasn't trying to stay out of it, it was merely that I had a hard time grasping what the substance of the argument was actually about in my initial reading. The words seemed to quickly lose meaning. Anastasia's post about your response to absinthe brought some clarity in that regard, and I felt like it was notable your response to absinthe early was fairly casual - not to suggest that you should be inherently distrustful of her, but there seemed to be something of a lack of inquisitiveness into what she was saying.

As strange as it sounds I actually had a pretty hard time grasping it myself. I feel my behavior is becoming a bit exhaustive. I wouldn't lie that it's not making me a bit self-conscious but I'm powering through that feeling because I do still have a lot of energy. Breaks and not just exasperating yourself with constant mafia games can do that, I guess. It's aside the point. I noted that you were TRing Infinity despite her own disapproval of your posts. Do you still hold to that despite her lack of presence?

I had mostly felt the attitude in the post I highlighted was a towny one. Granted, the one game I played with her she was scum and my reading of her posts was "fine" for the most part and I only really caught her in connection with her partners, so I plan to be judicious with that read rather than taking it for granted, but for early in the game it's a start.

Why would you expect me to retract a read just because she disliked some of my posts? I don't townread people based on reciprocity.

You also seem to have sidestepped the point from Anastasia I was reiterating. Why did you take absinthe's confidence in "being transparent" at face value? It felt a bit too trusting.

For me her behavior feels more telling the more it goes on. Her posts were very tangible but I don't know if there was much to process. Now is this an effect because of the..other stuff going on? I don't know. Point is you're here and responding and infinity has proclaimed even from the first post that's she's a bit burnt out. I'm not going to prod at her in the same way I would you.

For me (outside of yourself) I think scum commonly in-thread don't really want to engage an argument if they don't have to. They want to slip a 'oh well I'm not a bad guy' and be all silver tongued. The action of just going 'well meh you're still town' just felt off to me.

As for why I ignored your comment on Absin-- It's because I talked enough about it. You have 50 something posts to go through if you want.

[Briar]

I am curious still about S_S's guess on me and why it bothered him, because he didn't say anything about it more and while I appreciate him not outting it for fear it's correct

It was probably a rude thing to say regardless of whether it was right. Sorry.

I'm thinking it wasn't right though because if it was then you'd probably know why I said it.

You don't have to be sorry; I had a guess or two and it was more along the lines of like, you didn't like it because you didn't like the implications it made about me playing here, rather than something personal, but all the same don't worry about being rude. <3

[Briar]

I am curious still about S_S's guess on me and why it bothered him, because he didn't say anything about it more and while I appreciate him not outting it for fear it's correct

It was probably a rude thing to say regardless of whether it was right. Sorry.

I'm thinking it wasn't right though because if it was then you'd probably know why I said it.

You don't have to be sorry; I had a guess or two and it was more along the lines of like, you didn't like it because you didn't like the implications it made about me playing here, rather than something personal, but all the same don't worry about being rude. <3

Though, I do want to ask to clarify @S_S: was it a game thing or a more personal/player thing that you were thinking?

[Lukewarm]

Thinking a bit, in a perfect world I think my groups right now would look like this:

Gate: Absinthe/Anastasia/Catboi
Wall: Unwnd/Dunnstral/Something_Smart
Keep: Briar/Lukewarm/Infinity

I think Unwnd/Infinity are interchangeable for the last two, but the Gate group would resolve a few of my reads? Like, confirming whether or not absinthe/Ana is T/T or T/S (because if it's S/S What The Fuck) would be important to me, and also it'd be nice if that was the case because I haven't gotten anything really Good from catboi yet and seeing whether or not he was confirmed would be cool. (This is also the assumption that the mafia would make the conversation between the former keep on going to the death? I think? Like there's already some uh, doubts between absinthe/Ana that they've vocalized so duh mafia preys on that.) This is the group with maximum WIFOM fuckery though so I worry that I'd get snowed pretty fast were mafia to divert from this but I'm gonna assume they'd play it sort of straightforward despite me talking about all this stuff out loud.

For the wall group, that's honestly the group where I'm like... could be any alignment, and I wouldn't be too surprised? I lean town on unwnd, actually, I townread unwnd now that I think about it a little bit just from how he's been playing even if I was questioning the 'why' he was trying to be so... diplomatic? I guess? It doesn't feel slimy like he's trying to placate people so much as just... figure shit out, so far. Which is nice. The latter two I have less experience with and in general don't find easy reads, so resolving that is a bit out of my paygrade. I am curious still about S_S's guess on me and why it bothered him, because he didn't say anything about it more and while I appreciate him not outting it for fear it's correct, it's a little... IDK. I guess my expectation was that he'd engage me even if my reply to him was very silly, because if it's something he was worrying about a bit he'd attempt to resolve it somehow.

And the last group, I Am Town, Luke has felt good so far and I do think that like, while he's not new to the site, the format itself is something he's still adjusting to and trying to keep up as mafia while in a group playing the Townie Pageant Game would probably be hell for him. If he's town he feels like he's the safest vote for us to pick and if he's scum he'll probably slip or something and we just vote either myself or Infinity if she's in here with us, and it's easy from there on.

As for order of who we let stay first, I think that (in the little world I am creating here) I'd let Wall > Keep > Gate do their votes? Actually, uh, probably Keep first now that I am thinking about it because if we're all voting for townreads and this is somehow the group that gets messed up and votes mafia, it'd be important to reset assuming we'd placed at that point a decent amount of trust into their reads. The IC should stick around as long as needed to dictate everything obviously, but now that I'm working through it I am very much into the Keep going first unless we all collectively agree one person is /disgustingly/ townie (sidenote: hey I'm the disgustingly townie one lol) and wanna see their reads or something pending a Wall-flip.

My brain is not functioning after typing this. Please enjoy.

Hmmm. The fact that you are already locked into the Keep, makes me apprehensive for you to pick the other people in the Keep with you. Because, if you are scum, that means you are picking out the the people you think you can most trick into town reading you.

I personally want to go to the keep as well, but I think that means we should let the rest of the thread pick our third.

[Something_Smart]

Though, I do want to ask to clarify @S_S: was it a game thing or a more personal/player thing that you were thinking?

Not sure exactly what you mean by this, but the last time I played with the player I thought you were we had a pretty unpleasant conflict.

[Briar]

Hmmm. The fact that you are already locked into the Keep, makes me apprehensive for you to pick the other people in the Keep with you. Because, if you are scum, that means you are picking out the the people you think you can most trick into town reading you.

I personally want to go to the keep as well, but I think that means we should let the rest of the thread pick our third.

I mean, I don't expect everyone to go 9/9 with my same exact reads, but it's the configuration I think gives us the best odds right now of sorting the trickier spots in this game.

Are you apprehensive about me picking you? My assumption would be that if you're town that wouldn't be as much of a worry for you -- as a less experienced player (but still one who has experience with mafia) you shouldn't fumble I think? As town to the point where other people don't townread you, and I've already ceded the fact that as it stands I'd be fine voting you if that was the consensus. Also, do you have any read on me independent of me picking these things? (I think I prodded at this earlier but I am a little too lazy to go back through your ISO right now to see if you said anything about it.)

[Briar]

Though, I do want to ask to clarify @S_S: was it a game thing or a more personal/player thing that you were thinking?

Not sure exactly what you mean by this, but the last time I played with the player I thought you were we had a pretty unpleasant conflict.

Oh, okay!

We've never had any sort of unpleasant interaction, rest assured. <3

[Briar]

And what I was asking was more if you were worrying because you held my game in some regard that it had implications on what I was doing here, or if you were worrying because I was someone you disliked on a personal level/didn't wanna share a game-space with.

[Briar]

The former clearly is like, something I'd wanna tiptoe around in vague questioning to flesh out but it's moot now that I know.

[Briar]

Completely random side note: I'm using the Sepia theme for this account and I thought it was ugly when I picked it but it's really grown on me.

[unwnd]

I would be fine with Briar being treated as IC, her thoughts are very potent and I'm greatly enjoying her presence this game.

Maybe I am smitten, who the fuck knows

[Anastasia]

My jealousy is like a stormy sea as I had joined this game with hopes of seducing unwnd but it seems his heart has been taken by another.

[Lukewarm]

What are your thoughts about how to use the 3 minigames?

I got into that in 167, put your townreads in the keep, do whatever for the others. I think trying to game the IC at the gate is a bit of a waste of time, mafia are going to choose who they want as IC no matter what so it's not like they can be forced into making a bad choice. I'm mostly indifferent to how people arrange themselves in the other two.

I was actually going to type a bit more but I want to save those thoughts until after the assignments are finalized.

I don't know that I agree that it only matters where we put out top town reads. I was thinking about how we can organize the groups, and if we put our collective top scum reads in the same area, we can analyze the mafia switch.

I don't know how it is best to distribute the scum reads, like should we pick out our top 3, or just put our top 2 in the same area, and I'm still thinking about which area would be best to do this experiment. Would love for us to talk about this lol

But basically, I don't like the idea

I got into that in 167, put your townreads in the keep, do whatever for the others.

I suppose you can try, but I'm not sure how useful it's likely to be. But I'm a little bit fatalistic about the idea of trying to corral scumreads in this phase. I suppose it can't hurt to try?

I'm thinking of it more as an information gathering strategy.

Like as a thought experiment, with the scum swap, they have 3 things to juggle. They must put 1 mafia in every zone. They want to cherry pick an IC, and put them into the Gate if they are not there already. And they want to murky the read in the zones.

If we just go with "do whatever" for the others, then we might let them achieve all of those goals more easily.


And If we put our scum reads all at the wall, lets say we get 2 right and 1 wrong. Suddenly, they don't have free choice of swapping any more, we force their hand. They must target a town player, and move them to the wall to swap with the mafia there. Which means they have 0 ability to cherry pick an IC, because they cannot move a town player to the Gate.

[absinthe]

What are your thoughts about how to use the 3 minigames?

I got into that in 167, put your townreads in the keep, do whatever for the others. I think trying to game the IC at the gate is a bit of a waste of time, mafia are going to choose who they want as IC no matter what so it's not like they can be forced into making a bad choice. I'm mostly indifferent to how people arrange themselves in the other two.

I was actually going to type a bit more but I want to save those thoughts until after the assignments are finalized.

I don't know that I agree that it only matters where we put out top town reads. I was thinking about how we can organize the groups, and if we put our collective top scum reads in the same area, we can analyze the mafia switch.

I don't know how it is best to distribute the scum reads, like should we pick out our top 3, or just put our top 2 in the same area, and I'm still thinking about which area would be best to do this experiment. Would love for us to talk about this lol

But basically, I don't like the idea

I got into that in 167, put your townreads in the keep, do whatever for the others.

I suppose you can try, but I'm not sure how useful it's likely to be. But I'm a little bit fatalistic about the idea of trying to corral scumreads in this phase. I suppose it can't hurt to try?

I'm thinking of it more as an information gathering strategy.

Like as a thought experiment, with the scum swap, they have 3 things to juggle. They must put 1 mafia in every zone. They want to cherry pick an IC, and put them into the Gate if they are not there already. And they want to murky the read in the zones.

If we just go with "do whatever" for the others, then we might let them achieve all of those goals more easily.


And If we put our scum reads all at the wall, lets say we get 2 right and 1 wrong. Suddenly, they don't have free choice of swapping any more, we force their hand. They must target a town player, and move them to the wall to swap with the mafia there. Which means they have 0 ability to cherry pick an IC, because they cannot move a town player to the Gate.

<3

[Lukewarm]

Maybe that logic makes no sense, and I am over thinking it, but the idea of "just doing whatever" feels wrong to me

[Briar]

I would be fine with Briar being treated as IC, her thoughts are very potent and I'm greatly enjoying her presence this game.

Maybe I am smitten, who the fuck knows

<3 <3 <3

[unwnd]

My jealousy is like a stormy sea as I had joined this game with hopes of seducing unwnd but it seems his heart has been taken by another.

You tried to kill me! Or suggesting you'd be fine with killing me

You both seem like good people and I'm enjoying myself, though I didn't expect to garner this type of attention

[Briar]

It's about time you get the support and kindness you deserve, dammit.

[absinthe]

Maybe that logic makes no sense, and I am over thinking it, but the idea of "just doing whatever" feels wrong to me

I like it. Making it happen is non-trivial, but I like it.

[Anastasia]

My jealousy is like a stormy sea as I had joined this game with hopes of seducing unwnd but it seems his heart has been taken by another.

You tried to kill me! Or suggesting you'd be fine with killing me

You both seem like good people and I'm enjoying myself, though I didn't expect to garner this type of attention

We're not really at the killing part of the game yet, I just wanted to figure out if I could trust you with my heart <3

[Briar]

Is it non-trivial currently? I mean, we do have one group still that has 3/3 spaces in it and in theory if we blitz the other two groups full with snapshot townreads we'd leave them all in the Gate, which I don't think is the worst group to have at least 1 conftown come out of.

I don't think it's a winning strategy because getting 3/3 sounds far-fetched though and I'd rather have like, 1 scummy person in each group if possible for obvious reasons. Save for the Keep.

Actually I don't know why I'm speculating about this, it's fun but not gonna happen realistically.

[unwnd]

My jealousy is like a stormy sea as I had joined this game with hopes of seducing unwnd but it seems his heart has been taken by another.

You tried to kill me! Or suggesting you'd be fine with killing me

You both seem like good people and I'm enjoying myself, though I didn't expect to garner this type of attention

We're not really at the killing part of the game yet, I just wanted to figure out if I could trust you with my heart <3

When it comes down to it my true feelings are with the game of Mafia itself

If your heart is one that is the same as mine (in terms of alignment) then my answer is yes

[Lukewarm]

Hmmm. The fact that you are already locked into the Keep, makes me apprehensive for you to pick the other people in the Keep with you. Because, if you are scum, that means you are picking out the the people you think you can most trick into town reading you.

I personally want to go to the keep as well, but I think that means we should let the rest of the thread pick our third.

I mean, I don't expect everyone to go 9/9 with my same exact reads, but it's the configuration I think gives us the best odds right now of sorting the trickier spots in this game.

Are you apprehensive about me picking you? My assumption would be that if you're town that wouldn't be as much of a worry for you -- as a less experienced player (but still one who has experience with mafia) you shouldn't fumble I think? As town to the point where other people don't townread you, and I've already ceded the fact that as it stands I'd be fine voting you if that was the consensus. Also, do you have any read on me independent of me picking these things? (I think I prodded at this earlier but I am a little too lazy to go back through your ISO right now to see if you said anything about it.)

I don't think I responded before. I feel like there is a lot of noise in the thread, making it hard for me to get a read on several people on a blind read through, so I wasn't sure what I thought when you asked me the first time.

Since you asked me twice now, I stopped to look at your iso lol. I would say that I am tentatively giving you a town reading atm.