Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Anastasia]

Actually, it's probably better for Ana to pick who she wants in the final slot? If she's in fact wanting to vote someone other than herself it should be someone she's confident in.

I am confident in you and Absinthe

[Something_Smart]

I do trust Ana's faith in her absinthe read, for what that's worth.

Do you know Ana's main?

[Lukewarm]

Question for the thread. Should I vote myself into the keep? Like can I get a count on who is on board with that?

I think that that is the best place to put me, and Briar made a decent case for me going there as well. But now that 2 of the slots are locked in, I am worried that if I wait, I will end up somewhere else.

Are you not paying attention to what's being said right now when it comes to the swap mechanic?

I know the swap mechanic exists, however, the majority of town players are going to end up where they vote today. Mafia can swap either 1 or 2 town players, dependent on if they manage to get an even spread today. So 66-83% of all town players are going to end up where they vote today.

I'm not sure where this ties in with why you wanted to move to the Keep

Then maybe I am missing something from the discussion about the swap mechanic. I have said I wanted to end up in the keep since like page 6 of the thread. I thought you were saying "you know, you might be swapped out even if you go there." and my response was "I know that that is a possibility, but I am most likely to end up there if I start there.

[Briar]

Actually, it's probably better for Ana to pick who she wants in the final slot? If she's in fact wanting to vote someone other than herself it should be someone she's confident in.

I am confident in you and Absinthe

In that case I think we should have absinthe then? And if there's a swap we go from there.

(I'm basically treating you like conf-town with one super weird restriction where I can't actually do the thing and vote you at this point.)

[Briar]

I do trust Ana's faith in her absinthe read, for what that's worth.

Do you know Ana's main?

I figured it out, yes.

[Briar]

Briar learns to bite her tongue today. She is good at it. She does not say what she wants to say.

[unwnd]

Question for the thread. Should I vote myself into the keep? Like can I get a count on who is on board with that?

I think that that is the best place to put me, and Briar made a decent case for me going there as well. But now that 2 of the slots are locked in, I am worried that if I wait, I will end up somewhere else.

Are you not paying attention to what's being said right now when it comes to the swap mechanic?

I know the swap mechanic exists, however, the majority of town players are going to end up where they vote today. Mafia can swap either 1 or 2 town players, dependent on if they manage to get an even spread today. So 66-83% of all town players are going to end up where they vote today.

I'm not sure where this ties in with why you wanted to move to the Keep

Then maybe I am missing something from the discussion about the swap mechanic. I have said I wanted to end up in the keep since like page 6 of the thread. I thought you were saying "you know, you might be swapped out even if you go there." and my response was "I know that that is a possibility, but I am most likely to end up there if I start there.

Yeah I didn't register that initial need, and instead took you as wanting to move into Keep due to Ana's behavior towards you

I need to give this thread some needed breathing room and not completely burn out on D1, so stepping away for now

[Something_Smart]

I figured it out, yes.

Mm.

I'll take your word for it. I also townread absinthe for the same reason Ana does.

[Briar]

I think the worlds where you're town went up slightly, S_S!

[Briar]

And on that note, good night.

[Anastasia]

Good Night Briar!

[Lukewarm]

Actually, it's probably better for Ana to pick who she wants in the final slot? If she's in fact wanting to vote someone other than herself it should be someone she's confident in.

Okay, I ran through all of the possibilities if we now commit to this plan - Ana choses the 3rd player to enter the Keep, and commits to voting which ever of the two is left with her in the Keep after the switch (and if she tries to back out, we all assume she is scum claiming) - to see how it would play out.

Like I considered all of the combinations of Briar, Ana, and Ana's 3rd choice being town/scum

Spoiler:

If Briar is

town

and Ana is

town

, and choses another

town

, we win this mini-game, regardless of the swap.
and Ana is

town

, and chooses

scum

, we lose this minigame (Briar is swapped out, Ana votes her 2nd choice, we lose)

and Ana is

scum

, and choses a

town

player, we win this mini-game, regardless of the swap.
and Ana is

scum

, and chooses another

scum

player, we win this mini game (they can't swap out Briar, so we just vote for her)

If Briar is

scum

, I think we now lose this minigame, regardless of Ana's alignment.

and Ana is

town

, they swap Ana's 2nd choice, and we lose this mini game

and Ana is

scum

. This is the strangest one to parse out, but we probably lose??

My conclusion, is that Ana is almost certainly town, because the scenarios with town!Briar + scum!Ana means scumAna is giving us the win for this minigame.

But I am still incredibly frustrated by her locking herself in without letting the thread talk about it. Because it seems to me, that this minigame now hinges entirely on her being able to have successfully town read 2 different players Day 1. Like she took a lot of agency away from the whole team by making her play.

[Dunnstral]

Ultimately I don't really care about what group I get put in that much, I'll fill whatever is open.

I don't think this PList is one that is full of numbskulls. I am enjoying the nuance of the conversations but don't want to just make this about winning arguments. Catboi came in and felt very polarized by the thread, and I imagine that behavior will be similar to any potential scum who are just idly sitting by. Infinity also proclaimed that catboi had an awkwardness to him and if I'm not wrong she kept it to herself because it seemed like it was just being swallowed in the greater battle going on.

Noted

What are your thoughts about how to use the 3 minigames?

I got into that in 167, put your townreads in the keep, do whatever for the others. I think trying to game the IC at the gate is a bit of a waste of time, mafia are going to choose who they want as IC no matter what so it's not like they can be forced into making a bad choice. I'm mostly indifferent to how people arrange themselves in the other two.

I was actually going to type a bit more but I want to save those thoughts until after the assignments are finalized.

As Briar and unwnd have demonstrated, for the most part there's no "putting" townreads or scumreads anywhere, unless they buy in.

Well, I think people should cooperate and collaborate and would have said so if I'd been here at the start. Is there some point you're trying to make?

Not really. Just feeling a little deflated that it could be really easy for things to go south in this phase without town cooperation, and feeling that day 1 can be warped more than I'd initially thought by the presence of 3 scum instead of 2.

My optimism's taking some hits.

There was never a way to force people to go places, most people on this site won't policy elim for anything

[Dunnstral]

Thinking a bit, in a perfect world I think my groups right now would look like this:

Gate: Absinthe/Anastasia/Catboi
Wall: Unwnd/Dunnstral/Something_Smart
Keep: Briar/Lukewarm/Infinity

I think Unwnd/Infinity are interchangeable for the last two, but the Gate group would resolve a few of my reads? Like, confirming whether or not absinthe/Ana is T/T or T/S (because if it's S/S What The Fuck) would be important to me, and also it'd be nice if that was the case because I haven't gotten anything really Good from catboi yet and seeing whether or not he was confirmed would be cool. (This is also the assumption that the mafia would make the conversation between the former keep on going to the death? I think? Like there's already some uh, doubts between absinthe/Ana that they've vocalized so duh mafia preys on that.) This is the group with maximum WIFOM fuckery though so I worry that I'd get snowed pretty fast were mafia to divert from this but I'm gonna assume they'd play it sort of straightforward despite me talking about all this stuff out loud.

For the wall group, that's honestly the group where I'm like... could be any alignment, and I wouldn't be too surprised? I lean town on unwnd, actually, I townread unwnd now that I think about it a little bit just from how he's been playing even if I was questioning the 'why' he was trying to be so... diplomatic? I guess? It doesn't feel slimy like he's trying to placate people so much as just... figure shit out, so far. Which is nice. The latter two I have less experience with and in general don't find easy reads, so resolving that is a bit out of my paygrade. I am curious still about S_S's guess on me and why it bothered him, because he didn't say anything about it more and while I appreciate him not outting it for fear it's correct, it's a little... IDK. I guess my expectation was that he'd engage me even if my reply to him was very silly, because if it's something he was worrying about a bit he'd attempt to resolve it somehow.

And the last group, I Am Town, Luke has felt good so far and I do think that like, while he's not new to the site, the format itself is something he's still adjusting to and trying to keep up as mafia while in a group playing the Townie Pageant Game would probably be hell for him. If he's town he feels like he's the safest vote for us to pick and if he's scum he'll probably slip or something and we just vote either myself or Infinity if she's in here with us, and it's easy from there on.

As for order of who we let stay first, I think that (in the little world I am creating here) I'd let Wall > Keep > Gate do their votes? Actually, uh, probably Keep first now that I am thinking about it because if we're all voting for townreads and this is somehow the group that gets messed up and votes mafia, it'd be important to reset assuming we'd placed at that point a decent amount of trust into their reads. The IC should stick around as long as needed to dictate everything obviously, but now that I'm working through it I am very much into the Keep going first unless we all collectively agree one person is /disgustingly/ townie (sidenote: hey I'm the disgustingly townie one lol) and wanna see their reads or something pending a Wall-flip.

My brain is not functioning after typing this. Please enjoy.

This is a lot of wrong.

What we do isn't locked in, it depends on everyone's location and who gets swapped. We should probably solve one of the swapped groups first. Probably the IC group or the keep group if applicable, because those are the easier groups for town.

Wall group should go last, it is the hardest for town.

I don't think that wall grouping is a good idea but that's just my opinion

[Dunnstral]

The

Gate

is where we should have/should put the towniest members, for obvious reasons, except for 1 person we are voting at the keep

[Dunnstral]

I don't want to tell the scumteam how to play but it's pretty obvious they're going to send briar into the gate and then ic her

[Dunnstral]

Actually, it's probably better for Ana to pick who she wants in the final slot? If she's in fact wanting to vote someone other than herself it should be someone she's confident in.

Yes, because I'm not feeling good about voting for Ana in the keep at the moment, I'd like if she did this.

[Dunnstral]

Which means that townies shouldn't yeet themselves into the keep right now as it can make a sort of easy win turn much harder

[Dunnstral]

Actually, it's probably better for Ana to pick who she wants in the final slot? If she's in fact wanting to vote someone other than herself it should be someone she's confident in.

Okay, I ran through all of the possibilities if we now commit to this plan - Ana choses the 3rd player to enter the Keep, and commits to voting which ever of the two is left with her in the Keep after the switch (and if she tries to back out, we all assume she is scum claiming) - to see how it would play out.

Like I considered all of the combinations of Briar, Ana, and Ana's 3rd choice being town/scum

Spoiler:

If Briar is

town

and Ana is

town

, and choses another

town

, we win this mini-game, regardless of the swap.
and Ana is

town

, and chooses

scum

, we lose this minigame (Briar is swapped out, Ana votes her 2nd choice, we lose)

and Ana is

scum

, and choses a

town

player, we win this mini-game, regardless of the swap.
and Ana is

scum

, and chooses another

scum

player, we win this mini game (they can't swap out Briar, so we just vote for her)

If Briar is

scum

, I think we now lose this minigame, regardless of Ana's alignment.

and Ana is

town

, they swap Ana's 2nd choice, and we lose this mini game

and Ana is

scum

. This is the strangest one to parse out, but we probably lose??

My conclusion, is that Ana is almost certainly town, because the scenarios with town!Briar + scum!Ana means scumAna is giving us the win for this minigame.

But I am still incredibly frustrated by her locking herself in without letting the thread talk about it. Because it seems to me, that this minigame now hinges entirely on her being able to have successfully town read 2 different players Day 1. Like she took a lot of agency away from the whole team by making her play.

This seems pretty town

[Infinity 324]

In my last scum game, which was abandoned by the mod, I was probably getting day-1 elimmed, which would have lost the game for my team.

I don't agree with this fwiw, but maybe the circumstances would've been different if people were actually motivated to post

[Infinity 324]

My point is that your townread on Dunnstral is nonsense and he would say the same thing regardless of alignment, but that's not why I was pressing you... I wanted to understand your thought process to see if I thought it was genuine.

Do you really think you were getting more out of ana than you already got? Idk this feels like scum!you so far

[Infinity 324]

I guess I do kind of think you are town now because of the incredibly cruel way you are treating me.

I'm not sure you're capable of doing this as scum.

I guess I will learn something new this game.

I don't agree, the reaction feels disproportionate to me and I think being scum frustrated with a BoP fits with that. I think ffery probably believes the gist of what she's saying, but yeah

[Infinity 324]

she kept it to herself because it seemed like it was just being swallowed in the greater battle going on.

I kept it to myself because it was very weak, but it's gotten stronger the more catboi has posted.

[Infinity 324]

Granted, the one game I played with her she was scum

We also played in pokemon battles

[Infinity 324]

Maybe that logic makes no sense, and I am over thinking it, but the idea of "just doing whatever" feels wrong to me

I was thinking mostly the same thing