DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[Mognet]

Looking back over VFP the entity had them as a scumread yes. But they were never critical of them other than vibes. Again lack of reasoning. Meets criteria A.
Point B in defense << The conversation is about VFP and Marry.

So both match up and therefore both can be chainsaws and require investigation and reasoning whether I agree with the read or not to help ascertain whether I am being duped

[Bell]

Mognet are you saying that VFP is scum and that the entity is scum with him or that Marry is scum, that the Entity is attacking VFP to save marry or what?

[The Entity]

I don't think VFP is a good vote here.

I'm getting deja vu. I think VFP is a good vote here. Why do you think he isn't?

Not to uh, throw too much salt around here because I agree with you, but to my knowledge none of us VFP voters have provided a case/reasoning as to why they are scum, so why is there an expectation that Titus would have to explain why they are town??

[Mognet]

Mognet are you saying that VFP is scum and that the entity is scum with him or that Marry is scum, that the Entity is attacking VFP to save marry or what?

I am saying that Titus being scum with Et Al and Entity being scum with Marry need investigating.

I am of the opinion Titus + Et Al or Titus white knighting is more likely
However the Entity’s vote matches the definition of chainsaw and must be examined and the Entity needs to flesh out the read to have criteria to not be a chainsaw.

[The Entity]

Mognet are you saying that VFP is scum and that the entity is scum with him or that Marry is scum, that the Entity is attacking VFP to save marry or what?

Mognet has no coherent point to make and is just navel-gazing at this point. They blatantly said they thought marry was town in the very post where they accused us of chainsaw defending marry by voting for VFP.

[Bell]

I did just provide a case.
He ad hommed me, argued I was being unreasonable, and then unsubtly tried to shift focus back to Marry.
He has a plan and he's sticking to it.

[The Entity]

Then that's fine, continue about your business.

[Mognet]

Mognet are you saying that VFP is scum and that the entity is scum with him or that Marry is scum, that the Entity is attacking VFP to save marry or what?

Mognet has no coherent point to make and is just navel-gazing at this point. They blatantly said they thought marry was town in the very post where they accused us of chainsaw defending marry by voting for VFP.

Again
My reads do not matter in whether something should be investigated because I am a fallible Kupo.

If I see something that meets the definition of a scum tell it’s bad play not to poke it

[Mognet]

It’s the same thing if a cop claims a guilty. You have an opinion either way but you poke both sides and then see if your initial read was right.

[The Entity]

If I see something that meets the definition of a scum tell it’s bad play not to poke it

[The Entity]

...you do realize not every vote against someone else when there's a primary wagon is a chainsaw, right?

That's the internal logic you'd have to follow here to say that it's worth pushing us/investigating if we're scum with marry when you have a townread on marry.

Are you committing to that logic? Because if so, I'm about to go back and find every single instance in this very game alone where other people have done the exact same thing that we did (vote for their scumread when their scumread wasn't the leading wagon) and I'm going to ask you why you didn't give every single one of those people the third degree the same way you're doing right now.

[The Entity]

Also, for someone who wants to cite the wiki and outdated tells developed by someone who thought he was much better than he was at playing mafia, you sure do want to ignore the errata edited in by the author after the fact:

UPDATE: After further analysis, Tarhalindur has determined that the Chainsaw Defense is only trustworthy once the player defended has been revealed to be group scum (once the player defended is proved to be Mafia, any player that used Chainsaw Defense on the dead scum should be scrutinized). Otherwise, it is a null tell.

[Mognet]

...you do realize not every vote against someone else when there's a primary wagon is a chainsaw, right?

That's the internal logic you'd have to follow here to say that it's worth pushing us/investigating if we're scum with marry when you have a townread on marry.

Are you committing to that logic? Because if so, I'm about to go back and find every single instance in this very game alone where other people have done the exact same thing that we did (vote for their scumread when their scumread wasn't the leading wagon) and I'm going to ask you why you didn't give every single one of those people the third degree the same way you're doing right now.

Correct on the first part. Those have reasons though. The lack of reasoning (just being in a scum pool and vibes and no stated reasons) is the issue.

I am committing to if a vote is naked and does not have reasoning and attacked one of the two sides and there is no prior active scrutiny then yes I should have also have given it the third degree and if I did not that would be a mistake.

[Et Al]

I think anything that fits this criteria should be pushed.

What Titus did doesn't fit the criteria, though. The criteria require defending someone by attacking their attacker; Titus never defended us anywhere. There's no reason to believe that her vote on Nexus is related to Nexus's vote on us.

-S

[Mognet]

Also, for someone who wants to cite the wiki and outdated tells developed by someone who thought he was much better than he was at playing mafia, you sure do want to ignore the errata edited in by the author after the fact:

UPDATE: After further analysis, Tarhalindur has determined that the Chainsaw Defense is only trustworthy once the player defended has been revealed to be group scum (once the player defended is proved to be Mafia, any player that used Chainsaw Defense on the dead scum should be scrutinized). Otherwise, it is a null tell.

I don’t agree with the update. I find it much better to pressure in the moment to see if it’s null or scum.

[Mognet]

I think anything that fits this criteria should be pushed.

What Titus did doesn't fit the criteria, though. The criteria require defending someone by attacking their attacker; Titus never defended us anywhere. There's no reason to believe that her vote on Nexus is related to Nexus's vote on us.

-S

The vote is the defense. It attacks Nexus with no explanation and no mention of suspicion in her ISO.

[Mognet]

Then when asked for reasoning she provided none.

[The Entity]

I think I'll refuse to elaborate on my vote just on principle at this point.

[Mognet]

I think I'll refuse to elaborate on my vote just on principle at this point.

Okay then I still have to do my best to evaluate your actions without it but it’s still scummy not to explain your votes. It may be right but it’s still scummy to do.

[Titus]

Hey, let's keep having esoteric debates about the meaning of chainsaw because we expect M to be capable of admitting his strategies need changing. He's not going to admit that though. Rather than spam more pages, let's just get more wagons going on people who might be scum.

[Mognet]

Hey let’s say M’s strategies suck so we don’t have to provide reasoning for what we’re doing << That is what you sound like to me Titus.

[Mognet]

VOTE: Titus

[The Church of Skitter]

meh im too impatient I'll probably just vote what I want to do right now ig
VOTE: mognet

I really hate this in particular

talking about ldd being mafia is a lot more productive than trying to shut down wagons in their infancy while talking about not having any reads somehow, and not being sure if mastina was bussed

if you can't express yourself why someone is mafia then at least let things play out without putting your fingers in the pie

I have a read now.
You’re seriously scum.

LLD lead the wagon on Mastina.
It’s very rare for someone to control the game state and have no other competing wagons when attempting a bus.
Between your bad push and not dropping a vote on someone in your own words probably right,
Means you’re probably scum.

I’ll take a Sam wagon please.

Any takers?

Sam isn't in the wrong for suggesting that LLD could have bussed mastina. While at this moment I am unsure if LLD actually did bus mastina, it's LLD and I assume Sam understands that LLD is one of the strongest scumplayers on site and as such, probably thinks that LLD could bus mastina like that if she wanted to. While I really don't like how as soon as the idea comes up its being shut down as soon as possible because I think the concern coming from sam is reasonable for her to have.

[Titus]

...you do realize not every vote against someone else when there's a primary wagon is a chainsaw, right?

That's the internal logic you'd have to follow here to say that it's worth pushing us/investigating if we're scum with marry when you have a townread on marry.

Are you committing to that logic? Because if so, I'm about to go back and find every single instance in this very game alone where other people have done the exact same thing that we did (vote for their scumread when their scumread wasn't the leading wagon) and I'm going to ask you why you didn't give every single one of those people the third degree the same way you're doing right now.

It's just bias.
M has been projecting bias onto other people.
M argued the mastina wagon was biased, despite being provided with evidence to the contrary.
Those pushing mastina were scummy because "there was no case".
In reality, M wanted to be the whiteknighting savior of mastina.
When mastina flipped scum, he's still picking the same fights with the same people.
He'd decided (for his ego) that I was scummy for pushing mastina.

Now he just is trying to sell himself on me being scummy so he doesn't have to change a thing or admit he's being antitown. We all know the chainsaw thing is ridiculous. The question is why.

It's all about M's ego. Such ego driven nonsense is usually town though.

[Cephrir]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... aw_Defense

I don’t think so smiley face Kupo.

I think anything that fits this criteria should be pushed. Does it work always? Of course not. But by pushing I find out if it does or not.

yeah where the fuck are you getting any of that from naked votes???? i guess i'm chainsawing for titus right now too huh? maybe we can make a circle of chainsaws