Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[catboi]

catboi.

I'm sorry! I went to watch something rather than typing a response right away. o(_ _;o)

[catboi]

My read on infinity degraded a bit when catching up. unwnd's read on something_smart almost feels like he's trying to tie them together, almost, in the way it's being presented. Beyond that I'm not sure anything in the pages since I left off changed my views all that significantly.

[absinthe]

In terms of generalised strategy or particular people?

either.

both.

any.

talk to me.

Hmm, my feeling was that I was content to slot townreads in the keep and then to let the chips fall where they may - I felt like there wasn't a lot of point in trying to micromanage everyone and I felt like letting peopl decide on their own might be more revealing. It's easy for scum to simply defer their decision to others and thereby abdicate responsibility for their actions, whereas here they'd have to justify it. Having read a lot of the arguments about straegy on the previous pages, I would agree that putting multiple scumreads in one location seems preferable - although trying to force a 3/3 is impossible, any potential swap is valuable in terms of the information it provides. As thngs stand now though, unwnd is feeling a bit...cornered in his responses. I don't mind ana's suggested groupings although I'd probably swap in dunn at the wall in place of something_smart. I'm fine with either you or Luke being at the keep.

Where do you want to be?

[catboi]

I'm fine with the gate. I'd do the keep but like I said I selfishly want to play longer and think we always resolve the keep first. Do you have an objection to this?

[absinthe]

I don't have an objection.

I feel like players are getting poe'd into minigames and I'm curious if they're copacetic.

[catboi]

In fact, I feel like I should live my own words - after spending several hours reading and catching up, I felt a significant part of the discussion had devolved into strategic minutiae and awkward jockeying for position and I feel the productiveness of such discussion is limited. It's very easy to get lost in the weeds of such arguments and they cease to be particularly illuminating. I think actions speak louder and I want less idle shuffling of the feet.


VOTE: Gate

[Marashu]

Official Vote Count 1.05

---

Preparation

Gate

(1): catboi

Wall

(1): unwnd

Keep

(2): Briar, Anastasia

Unassigned

(5): Dunnstral, Infinity 324, absinthe, Lukewarm, Something_Smart

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-18 18:31:49).

Mod notes:

Only votes for the Gate, Wall, or Keep will be counted.

[Infinity 324]

And if I do scum claim, what are you going to do about it?

It gives us a lot of useful associatives and a free win (I don't think it's necessarily free rn if briar and ana are town) so there's definitely a downside

It also doesn't prevent a 2 scum/0 scum split at the other 2 locations

[Infinity 324]

That there's scum in those 3? Logically yes, but it feels like nobody understands what I'm getting at, so actually no.

I understand what you're getting at, you think scum would go to the keep so that they have more flexibility in swapping.

[absinthe]

absinthe - in 54 you said you were cautiously optimistic about unwnd's alignment, but in 120 you suggested Dunn saying he "feels" town is "a little premature". What's the difference there, exactly?

I answered this directly to Dunn.

Unwnd feels town to me

Sure this isn't a little premature?

Why would it be?

That was a gentle jibe about your objections to me being townread quickly in WH13. And a note-to-self that you've put out an early townread on a skilled player.

Dunn and I went back and forth for much of the Warehouse 13 Day 1 about which early-early townreads on me he was calling weird and why, among other things. He thought the townreads on my hydra with Nacho were incautious and unwarranted.

It's basically a meme that I give out easy townreads during the first few pages of a game. It's very rare for me to get a scumread that quickly. So rare that I'm not even sure what my accuracy rate is. I have no idea who anastasia is, but she's obviously familiar enough with me to string together some exaggerations that don't look too off base to players who don't have a lot of with me.

Mostly I was heckling him, but I do wonder about the ease of that read.

I don't think it's hypocritical, all I said was they feel town, I didn't assert that they're for sure town like people were doing in W 13.

In W13, the town needed to decide who would get an artifact (an invention of unknown benefits and drawbacks) during the first 48 hours of every game day. On day 1, there was very little data upon which to make those decisions, and I think that alone led to more emphatic reads (or at least more emphatic written expressions of reads) than would be typical during early-early day 1.

There were a few strongly stated reads early on in this game and they didn't seem to bother you. This is a totally different sort of setup, but the stakes are also pretty high.

I'm not shading you here, particularly for having different behaviors, just noting the differences and wondering what I can do with that info. I wish I had more of a read of you.

[Lukewarm]

My head hurts from trying to figure this out. Can someone I TR just tell me what location to lock myself into (personally preference of keep>wall>gate)

[absinthe]

I feel like the chances are low, even though I think your solve is probably close.

I can't believe I need to suggest both of you that it isn't lol

This stance is balanced on your S_S read. :/

[absinthe]

My head hurts from trying to figure this out. Can someone I TR just tell me what location to lock myself into (personally preference of keep>wall>gate)

This is what I'm waiting to see from Briar.

[unwnd]

I feel like the chances are low, even though I think your solve is probably close.

I can't believe I need to suggest both of you that it isn't lol

This stance is balanced on your S_S read. :/

It..does?

[absinthe]

I feel like the chances are low, even though I think your solve is probably close.

I can't believe I need to suggest both of you that it isn't lol

This stance is balanced on your S_S read. :/

It..does?

I don't think my comment was earthshaking. more like, so trivial why did I even post it?

"close" implies at most 1 bad read in the 3p solve.

You say anastasia's solve isn't close.

From your perspective, if you're town, the solve not being close means you're townreading at least one other person in the solve.

You've expressed a townread of S_S.

[unwnd]

I feel like the chances are low, even though I think your solve is probably close.

I can't believe I need to suggest both of you that it isn't lol

This stance is balanced on your S_S read. :/

It..does?

I don't think my comment was earthshaking. more like, so trivial why did I even post it?

"close" implies at most 1 bad read in the 3p solve.

You say anastasia's solve isn't close.

From your perspective, if you're town, the solve not being close means you're townreading at least one other person in the solve.

You've expressed a townread of S_S.

My response was more selfish actually

I looked at like 'well I'm town' so there's no way it could possibly exist lol

[Something_Smart]

Looks to me like the misunderstanding here is that absinthe said the solve was probably "close" which to me means 2/3 or better. For you to say that it isn't close means that you'd think at least 2 of the people in the solve are town which is predicated on your townread of me. Is that the way you meant it?

[unwnd]

My response to Ana was very literal. I've felt for a good while she's only insistent upon this to see if she's right and nothing else

All I can continue to do is take a firm stance and say no, it wasn't related to how I read you

[unwnd]

In fact, I feel like I should live my own words - after spending several hours reading and catching up, I felt a significant part of the discussion had devolved into strategic minutiae and awkward jockeying for position and I feel the productiveness of such discussion is limited. It's very easy to get lost in the weeds of such arguments and they cease to be particularly illuminating. I think actions speak louder and I want less idle shuffling of the feet.


VOTE: Gate

I'm a little annoyed by this post, because it seems like I'm not being heard despite being dangerously close to the one of the top posters

[unwnd]

When I said 'I impulsively voted on the wall and don't want others doing it' I meant it. I can't really get a read out of you deciding why you wanted to be at the Gate. I would say Ana probably had the most natural conclusion as to why she chose the people she wanted, what she felt about that pairing, and then acted on her decisions. It's why I relented my own read and I'm an asshat. I don't want to become the standard of selfishness

[absinthe]

I'm finding it kinda hard to pull out the main points/themes of your iso. Maybe it's a leftover impression from when you were rainchecking.

[unwnd]

I genuinely don't blame you and felt prior that I didn't really have a direction myself

I just didn't have the nerve to admit it

[unwnd]

If I had to summarize myself up until this point however it'd be something like

1) Impulse voting is bad, Briar following my lead struck me but her posting has been townie
2) Ana trying to build a case on me based on expectation annoyed me, and I got obsessed with trying to explain why it was wrong
3) S_S's more grounded approach to using the setup to our benefit left me with good impressions, and his need to explain why Ana just for lack of a better term yolo'ing it is a bad idea even more so

[absinthe]

if you have one now, what is your direction?

[unwnd]

I think right now I should stop trying to force an outcome. My direction is basically just respond naturally to things instead of proving points and getting into 10 page arguments over expectation

I'm turning a new leaf, my reads haven't changed regardless