Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Marashu]

Official Vote Count 2.01

---

Gate

catboi (0):
Something_Smart (0):
absinthe (0):
Not Voting (3): catboi, Something_Smart, absinthe

Wall

unwnd (0):
Lukewarm (0):
Dunnstral (0):
Not Voting (3): unwnd, Lukewarm, Dunnstral

Keep

Briar (0):
Anastasia (0):
Infinity 324(0):
Not Voting (3): Briar, Anastasia, Infinity 324

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-22 23:00:54).

Mod notes:

You may only vote within your location

[catboi]

@Mod

Does the thread lock if a minigame is hammered? Or do we just keep going

I'll lock the thread very briefly to resolve the hammer, then discussion can continue.

Alright so popcorn

I want to hear people which group should be flipped first

keep > gate > wall, descending order of best odds.

Although if we wanna get fancy we do keep > IC calls for a crossvote at the wall > then we can choose either gate or wall

[Dunnstral]

okay the anime avis are starting to get to me ngl

This is ironic because your avatar is also anime <3

Wow am I really alone as a non-anime avi? >.<

I don't wanna say this game could be that easy because it is, in fact, never that easy. But is the simple answer that Dunn hopped in that group to avoid auto-lose and we should just not waste our time here?

This game seems pretty bleak for scum.

p-edit: Have you explained the 'weird' parts of Luke, and if not can you, Dunn? I had him as town, albeit not absinthe/Ana levels.

He focuses too much on the keep. Specifically, he is seeing if, were briar to be swapped out, he could finangle a victory based on existing suspicions of aAnastasia.

He doesn't seem to acknowledge infinity or S_S, except for what looks like a gambit where infinity mentions there being no other non-anime avatars

[Briar]

I'm going to reread catboi/S_S, because I had it the other way around versus Ana yesterday and with the switch happening as it did I feel even more confident in like... trying to collaborate and listen.

Can you explain why? You kept saying you thought I might be scum yesterday but it never really went beyond "not towny enough" and "reacted to me moving funny"

Mmm. I really just didn't like the way you responded to how I was behaving, honestly? It doesn't make sense to me for you to have that sort of reaction -- like, I dunno, you can just... challenge me yourself if you're town? Like, it felt emotionally out of place more than anything, disconnected from what you could have done. And in general I'm gonna be real, I can't remember much else you did beyond that but that's generally a sign to me that scum is like, either failing to keep up or is making content up that's passable.

But, knowing that you are a good scum player, I think I should give you some benefit that you could do more than passable; in the moment, my read is also somewhat anchored on the fact that you're fighting S_S who I thought was town yesterday which makes me wanna hunker down and just throw you out right now.

I don't understand whaat you mean. By "challenge you" do you mean go to the keep myself? Because I didn't think you were automatically scum for it, I just didn't understand wat you were doing and was...a little frustrated I guess because I'd had a plan for how I wanted to do things and you disrupted it before I had a chance to post. So everything in my reaction after was trying to understand why you did it because I wasn'tgoing to assume you wer town, I wanted to question you to figure out if what you were doing made sense. And ultimately I concluded that I didn't see scum motivation in your play. But it feels like you're hung up on the severity of that initial reaction and, uh, maybe a little upset by it and looking at things objectively? Because I have no idea how you'd categorize me as "less memorable" than something_smart, really.

And, uh, thank for the compliment but I don't think I'm

that

good considering my recent games. (also this narrows your identity down to a few people but none of them seem to quite fit >_>)

Okay, so, for me I scumread that frustration; my assumption was that it was more the sort of frustration that comes from scum who's pissed off frankly that town has jumped the gun and has suddenly limited the options for scum to weasel in. This also compounded with the fact that I believe you were later to get into things, even just by a little bit, and lost an important moment that comes with the very beginning of games.

I wasn't upset by it and I don't think I'm hung up; frankly it was the scummiest thing that I could recall from D1. I was townreading Ana/absinthe hard, Luke/Unwnd/S_S to varying degrees, leaving you/Dunn/Infinity as the three and with you having the singular Thing that was like, the worst to me. Maybe I was being too harsh on that when it was happening because it was easy to latch onto, but I dunno. I want to believe that maybe somehow I am a good player and can get things right with my reads sometimes.

S_S was rather active mechanically, and I remembered that. Like, it made an impact on me. Maybe it was being recent that sort of... blurred my memory of you, but right now I'm trying to figure out between you two and I'm willing to take a step away from my read from yesterday.

What do you think about the Wall right now? Who would you vote out?

(And hehe.)

[Something_Smart]

Does anyone know if catboi likes to bus/distance?

[Dunnstral]

Dunn I have an itch that's it you based on the way the night went down but I'm willing to be reasonable

Did you go to the wall with me because you thought Luke was scum and you could convince me? I don't remember if you answered your intent yet

No, I didn't have that level of confidence on you being town over Luke, and wasn't really thinking about that. It was in my mind that we could win without dealing with my own group, if necessary

[Anastasia]

@Catboi/SS

You two have a valuable piece of information none of the rest of us have.

You know for certain the identity of a mafia player between the two of you.

You should be trying to look at the ISO to use that information to help us solve the Wall <3

[unwnd]

I think this table is pretty much filled with good players so while I'm excited I don't want to be overly lol

[Briar]

okay the anime avis are starting to get to me ngl

This is ironic because your avatar is also anime <3

Wow am I really alone as a non-anime avi? >.<

I don't wanna say this game could be that easy because it is, in fact, never that easy. But is the simple answer that Dunn hopped in that group to avoid auto-lose and we should just not waste our time here?

This game seems pretty bleak for scum.

p-edit: Have you explained the 'weird' parts of Luke, and if not can you, Dunn? I had him as town, albeit not absinthe/Ana levels.

He focuses too much on the keep. Specifically, he is seeing if, were briar to be swapped out, he could finangle a victory based on existing suspicions of aAnastasia.

He doesn't seem to acknowledge infinity or S_S, except for what looks like a gambit where infinity mentions there being no other non-anime avatars

I'll read over him, then, regarding the associatives.

[Dunnstral]

I think we're making a mistake in focusing on me over catboi/ss right now

[unwnd]

Dunn I have an itch that's it you based on the way the night went down but I'm willing to be reasonable

Did you go to the wall with me because you thought Luke was scum and you could convince me? I don't remember if you answered your intent yet

No, I didn't have that level of confidence on you being town over Luke, and wasn't really thinking about that. It was in my mind that we could win without dealing with my own group, if necessary

So your preference assuming is Keep > Gate > Wall then for flip order? Unless you'd rather solve in catboi/S_S first which is pretty much where I am too

[Something_Smart]

You two have a valuable piece of information none of the rest of us have.

Well, ish. Catboi and I also have the highest prior chance of being scum (aside from Infinity, of course), so our thoughts should be trusted the least before we've flipped. And after we've flipped, then everyone will have the information that we had.

[Anastasia]

the way you two solve for the wall is pretty important for figuring out the right one between the two of you to flip

remember the scum on the Gate can't really bus the scum on the Wall if the Keep is already townsided.

[Something_Smart]

I think Lukewarm's posts have been solidly town and he'd be my first pick for someone to send to the wall right now

Hm

[Briar]

Okay, Ana, hear me out...

I think that S_S might be town for how Infinity was pushing him versus catboi.

(I'm treating Infinity like she's flipped scum currently which, maybe is not the best method but it's the likely outcome here.)

[Dunnstral]

Dunn I have an itch that's it you based on the way the night went down but I'm willing to be reasonable

Did you go to the wall with me because you thought Luke was scum and you could convince me? I don't remember if you answered your intent yet

No, I didn't have that level of confidence on you being town over Luke, and wasn't really thinking about that. It was in my mind that we could win without dealing with my own group, if necessary

So your preference assuming is Keep > Gate > Wall then for flip order? Unless you'd rather solve in catboi/S_S first which is pretty much where I am too

In my mind, I already know the deal with Keep and don't see a need to flip it right away. I'm looking at the Gate right now, and if it's a scum elim, do Keep next. If not, we can work on Wall

[Something_Smart]

remember the scum on the Gate can't really bus the scum on the Wall if the Keep is already townsided.

I mean they can if they don't expect to be believed...

Right now I'm leaning unwnd scum at the Wall

[unwnd]

Okay, Ana, hear me out...

I think that S_S might be town for how Infinity was pushing him versus catboi.

(I'm treating Infinity like she's flipped scum currently which, maybe is not the best method but it's the likely outcome here.)

Re: S_S town, I was recently there with you but not anymore

[Anastasia]

Okay, Ana, hear me out...

I think that S_S might be town for how Infinity was pushing him versus catboi.

(I'm treating Infinity like she's flipped scum currently which, maybe is not the best method but it's the likely outcome here.)

that's a great point <3

I think we should keep hammering SS tho cuz Catboi is way smoother than him as scum and there's a chance we can get SS to towntell

[unwnd]

@Mod

What happens if deadline is met and no decision is made for any minigame?

[Briar]

Spoiler:

Okay, thoughts readswise:

I like unwnd's early energy

I townread Infinity's 52 - something about that mindset fees like it's coming from town

I think Lukewarm's posts have been solidly town and he'd be my first pick for someone to send to the wall right now

No particular scum pings yet

Why do you think that? Why would you not wait to see if other people are okay with it?

Why should I care about what other people think in the moment? Like, if people don't think that I'm towny enough there are two other slots that they can assign to other people and vote them instead, and I'll vote whoever I think is town of those two if no one wants me. I'm just hamstringing myself if I'm scum by putting the pressure on myself to compete with them but that isn't the case this game, so /shrug. It's a bit shitty of me to not care if other people agree

now

but they will in time.

Hmm, okay. I don't really understand this mindset at all but it'd be an unusually gutsy play for scum.

These posts felt a bit careful? Trying to look town? The opposite of whismical? Idk, it's pretty weak anyway.

she kept it to herself because it seemed like it was just being swallowed in the greater battle going on.

I kept it to myself because it was very weak, but it's gotten stronger the more catboi has posted.

vs

Spoiler:

My point is that your townread on Dunnstral is nonsense and he would say the same thing regardless of alignment, but that's not why I was pressing you... I wanted to understand your thought process to see if I thought it was genuine.

Do you really think you were getting more out of ana than you already got? Idk this feels like scum!you so far

only if my reads are wrong

I think it's pretty silly to have a value judgement on play that is only determined after the game is over. We want to know now what's good and what isn't; so I think that it is bad play to commit yourself to a read like that, even if the read turns out to be right in the end.

I think you are stuck in a weird place where you can't decide whether you want to shade me as bold genius scum gambitter or bad town tunnel reader and it makes you sound funny

since I think you are scummy it makes me feel I'm on the right track with this briar/absinthe plan

I think you're probably approaching reading s_s not great, though he's still leaning scum for me atm. Like, he loves to talk about things in a vacuum and not come to firm conclusions, though the way he's doing it here I feel is +scum for him.

@s_s Why would ana make up a reason for a read she can't justify as scum?

Because she wouldn't expect to be interrogated this deeply.

I mean, scum have two kinds of reads: tactical and genuine. Town have only genuine reads. Tactical reads are top-down instead of bottom-up (the read comes first, then the justification), so they may not be justifiable in the same way that genuine reads are.

I don't really see why you'd expect scum to have a tactical read at this point in the game. If it was to pocket dunn, ana could've just found a townread she genuinely believe in to pocket then instead. Idk

If it helps your meta ffery, s_s felt similar to this when he was scum in PyP

I don't have a large sample on s_s (at least that I can remember), but I think he does seem a bit more goal-directed as town and I can see the purpose of his questioning a bit more easily.

My motivation to play mafia comes in waves and right now it's at a low point

(532 also reads as a pseudo-defense to me.)

[Briar]

Like, reading over this it feels like Infinity actually wants S_S dead versus catboi who is a scumread but like, not a lot of meat there?

[Marashu]

@Mod

What happens if deadline is met and no decision is made for any minigame?

Elapsed deadline results in a Mafia win.

[Dunnstral]

@Mod

What happens if deadline is met and no decision is made for any minigame?

Pacifist ending

[Something_Smart]

How's this for a towntell

If I'm scum then we had six options and this seems like the literal worst one. Not only would we have chosen me over Infinity to try to carry the Gate, but we would have picked the IC to be someone who has demolished scum-me before and whose towngame I respect immensely. I don't know who Briar and Ana are but I highly doubt that I would be more scared of them as scum than I would be of ffery.