Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[Briar]

Hey Ana watch this.

[Briar]

VOTE: Briar

[Dunnstral]

Like, reading over this it feels like Infinity actually wants S_S dead versus catboi who is a scumread but like, not a lot of meat there?

There was no elimination during day 1.

[Briar]

UNVOTE:

[Briar]

How's this for a towntell

If I'm scum then we had six options and this seems like the literal worst one. Not only would we have chosen me over Infinity to try to carry the Gate, but we would have picked the IC to be someone who has demolished scum-me before and whose towngame I respect immensely. I don't know who Briar and Ana are but I highly doubt that I would be more scared of them as scum than I would be of ffery.

(I don't want this to get lost for my dumb joke.)

[Anastasia]

I'm pretty sure I was far more hostile towards infinity-SS scum pairing than Absinthe was?

[Anastasia]

aaaaaah you are scaring me :<

[unwnd]

Infinity literally had to go somewhere and scum can't be in the same minigame so I'm not sure where that resolves

[Briar]

I'm sorry but I felt a big need to do that and that made me laugh really hard.

[catboi]

Okay, so, for me I scumread that frustration; my assumption was that it was more the sort of frustration that comes from scum who's pissed off frankly that town has jumped the gun and has suddenly limited the options for scum to weasel in. This also compounded with the fact that I believe you were later to get into things, even just by a little bit, and lost an important moment that comes with the very beginning of games.

I wasn't upset by it and I don't think I'm hung up; frankly it was the scummiest thing that I could recall from D1. I was townreading Ana/absinthe hard, Luke/Unwnd/S_S to varying degrees, leaving you/Dunn/Infinity as the three and with you having the singular Thing that was like, the worst to me. Maybe I was being too harsh on that when it was happening because it was easy to latch onto, but I dunno. I want to believe that maybe somehow I am a good player and can get things right with my reads sometimes.

S_S was rather active mechanically, and I remembered that. Like, it made an impact on me. Maybe it was being recent that sort of... blurred my memory of you, but right now I'm trying to figure out between you two and I'm willing to take a step away from my read from yesterday.

What do you think about the Wall right now? Who would you vote out?

(And hehe.)

I mean the thing is I'm way more likely to have a restrained reaction in that situation as scum, I don't let my real feelings leak out into the game because that gets me judged. Flipping out at a townie establishing themselves as town only ends up reflecting poorly on me. Like if I were scum I'd probably come in, question you coolly, and then just gradually turn up the heat and start undermining you. But my goal isn't to do that, it's to solve whether you are town and I feel like that was reflected in my approach, I wasn't coming at you with a predetermined conclusion. In general I have a harder time keeping my emotions in check as town, it's not good thing but it just tends to happen with me.

From everything I understand of something_smart, him being active mechanically is completely and utterly NAI. Why would you treat it as a towntell?

Right now as a GTH answer I'd say unwnd at the wall based on my gut feelings from day 1 but that's not a super confident read.

[Something_Smart]

This is actually kind of interesting and vaguely Monty Hall-ish.

If we assume that a me/Infinity team has an equal chance of sending either one of us to the Keep (seems plausible), and a catboi/Infinity team always sends Infinity to the Keep (also plausible), then my chances of being scum should have dropped about 33% overnight.

[Anastasia]

Infinity does seem kind of burned out tho

I think she gets sent to the keep regardless of her partner?

[Something_Smart]

Perhaps.

[unwnd]

Okay, so, for me I scumread that frustration; my assumption was that it was more the sort of frustration that comes from scum who's pissed off frankly that town has jumped the gun and has suddenly limited the options for scum to weasel in. This also compounded with the fact that I believe you were later to get into things, even just by a little bit, and lost an important moment that comes with the very beginning of games.

I wasn't upset by it and I don't think I'm hung up; frankly it was the scummiest thing that I could recall from D1. I was townreading Ana/absinthe hard, Luke/Unwnd/S_S to varying degrees, leaving you/Dunn/Infinity as the three and with you having the singular Thing that was like, the worst to me. Maybe I was being too harsh on that when it was happening because it was easy to latch onto, but I dunno. I want to believe that maybe somehow I am a good player and can get things right with my reads sometimes.

S_S was rather active mechanically, and I remembered that. Like, it made an impact on me. Maybe it was being recent that sort of... blurred my memory of you, but right now I'm trying to figure out between you two and I'm willing to take a step away from my read from yesterday.

What do you think about the Wall right now? Who would you vote out?

(And hehe.)

I mean the thing is I'm way more likely to have a restrained reaction in that situation as scum, I don't let my real feelings leak out into the game because that gets me judged. Flipping out at a townie establishing themselves as town only ends up reflecting poorly on me. Like if I were scum I'd probably come in, question you coolly, and then just gradually turn up the heat and start undermining you. But my goal isn't to do that, it's to solve whether you are town and I feel like that was reflected in my approach, I wasn't coming at you with a predetermined conclusion. In general I have a harder time keeping my emotions in check as town, it's not good thing but it just tends to happen with me.

From everything I understand of something_smart, him being active mechanically is completely and utterly NAI. Why would you treat it as a towntell?

Right now as a GTH answer I'd say unwnd at the wall based on my gut feelings from day 1 but that's not a super confident read.

You're wrong about me and a lot of things between us feel unresolved in general

[Something_Smart]

Also re 1130 I think WIOFM cancels that out in theory because if you ended up deciding between me/catboi you would have to take into account the possibility that you're being set up. Maybe not in practice, but I think I would still certainly prefer to have Briar decide than absinthe.

[absinthe]

Hahaha, okay.

I miss you absinthe, and I am so sorry Infinity.

Can I still have a glass of wine?

[unwnd]

I mean both of the two people who has to contain scum are both scumreading me so like am I just chopped liver lol

[Dunnstral]

So Catboi and S_S both think Unwnd at the wall... why?

[unwnd]

I've gotten so much attention this game from wanting to be killed and loved at the same

[Briar]

Okay, so, for me I scumread that frustration; my assumption was that it was more the sort of frustration that comes from scum who's pissed off frankly that town has jumped the gun and has suddenly limited the options for scum to weasel in. This also compounded with the fact that I believe you were later to get into things, even just by a little bit, and lost an important moment that comes with the very beginning of games.

I wasn't upset by it and I don't think I'm hung up; frankly it was the scummiest thing that I could recall from D1. I was townreading Ana/absinthe hard, Luke/Unwnd/S_S to varying degrees, leaving you/Dunn/Infinity as the three and with you having the singular Thing that was like, the worst to me. Maybe I was being too harsh on that when it was happening because it was easy to latch onto, but I dunno. I want to believe that maybe somehow I am a good player and can get things right with my reads sometimes.

S_S was rather active mechanically, and I remembered that. Like, it made an impact on me. Maybe it was being recent that sort of... blurred my memory of you, but right now I'm trying to figure out between you two and I'm willing to take a step away from my read from yesterday.

What do you think about the Wall right now? Who would you vote out?

(And hehe.)

I mean the thing is I'm way more likely to have a restrained reaction in that situation as scum, I don't let my real feelings leak out into the game because that gets me judged. Flipping out at a townie establishing themselves as town only ends up reflecting poorly on me. Like if I were scum I'd probably come in, question you coolly, and then just gradually turn up the heat and start undermining you. But my goal isn't to do that, it's to solve whether you are town and I feel like that was reflected in my approach, I wasn't coming at you with a predetermined conclusion. In general I have a harder time keeping my emotions in check as town, it's not good thing but it just tends to happen with me.

From everything I understand of something_smart, him being active mechanically is completely and utterly NAI. Why would you treat it as a towntell?

Right now as a GTH answer I'd say unwnd at the wall based on my gut feelings from day 1 but that's not a super confident read.

Okay, well, I wouldn't say you flipped out or anything for sure, but to me it did feel like your emotions seeped out a little bit despite you trying to keep them in check since you were frustrated. I don't know how I feel about you saying that you have a harder time keeping yourself in line as town though if that's the case... OTL Ugh. Okay. WHat do you think about what I said WRT Infinity/S_S not being paired? Since the implication is that you fill up the slot and, yeah.

Do you think that whenever S_S posts about mechanics, his alignment stops existing? I remembered it, which (and this is a shortcoming of mine as a player) meant I was prone more to townreading him, and it was not just for the fact he was active but I liked how he sounded while he was talking about those mechanics. I'm not treating him posting about mechanics alone as a towntell and I'm unsure if something was lost in translation there.

Okay, has anything today been influential on you yet?

[unwnd]

time

[catboi]

How's this for a towntell

If I'm scum then we had six options and this seems like the literal worst one. Not only would we have chosen me over Infinity to try to carry the Gate, but we would have picked the IC to be someone who has demolished scum-me before and whose towngame I respect immensely. I don't know who Briar and Ana are but I highly doubt that I would be more scared of them as scum than I would be of ffery.

I mean, I can think of some good reasons:

Although I'm not seeing the stuff I noticed about his scum game when I meta'd him a few months ago, I'm also not seeing some of the stuff I associate with his towngame.

Maybe my glasses need adjustment.

Compare with:

only if my reads are wrong

I think it's pretty silly to have a value judgement on play that is only determined after the game is over. We want to know now what's good and what isn't; so I think that it is bad play to commit yourself to a read like that, even if the read turns out to be right in the end.

I think you are stuck in a weird place where you can't decide whether you want to shade me as bold genius scum gambitter or bad town tunnel reader and it makes you sound funny

since I think you are scummy it makes me feel I'm on the right track with this briar/absinthe plan

I think you're probably approaching reading s_s not great, though he's still leaning scum for me atm. Like, he loves to talk about things in a vacuum and not come to firm conclusions,

though the way he's doing it here I feel is +scum for him.

Re the bolded what makes the way he's doing it +scum? How does it vary from his townplay?

Also, you've repeatedly said that you're not motivated enough to obvtown this game.

What's dampening your motivation?

Honestly I feel pretty good about my TRs on briar and ana, which means I think I like putting someone I also TR strongly at the keep. Absinthe would not be that player for me, but I do feel better about her than I did before.

The chances of any specific group of 3 being town is about 18% if I did my math right, which seems like something that's reasonable to try and go for. I also feel like it's reasonable to try and go for putting 2 scum in the same group (probably the wall) if we can. Then the gate could contain some null reads. Thoughts?

I'm having difficulty engaging readswise and my reads feel pretty stagnant though I feel like some are wrong. (To summarize, that's unwnd, absinthe, ana, luke and briar as town, dunn as null, and s_s and catboi as scumleans).

So let me try to work through the mechanics at least. If we try to put a third townread at the keep, we have a decent chance of putting 3 town in there. Say it's ana, briar, and absinthe. If we succeed, the best swap scum can do is probably putting one of those 3 into the gate. Ideally we'd put 2 scum in the wall if that's the case, which lets us have an extra townie in the wall and some WIFOM info about who we think scum would swap. I think I've talked myself into wanting a scummy player in the keep though, because if we have 3 town in the keep and 2 scum at the gate it's not great for us anyway. Especially since I TR unwnd and they're already at the wall.

Infinity, your read of me changes. Your strategy for how to stack the keep changes, and all of the changes seem to come down to the same answer for you.

[Briar]

Infinity does seem kind of burned out tho

I think she gets sent to the keep regardless of her partner?

Stop stealing my thoughts, thief.

I think it makes sense, send people with more WIM to other places to fight.

[Briar]

Hahaha, okay.

I miss you absinthe, and I am so sorry Infinity.

Can I still have a glass of wine?

Yes. <3

[catboi]

You're wrong about me and a lot of things between us feel unresolved in general

That feels like your fault tbh