Dogs Vs. Cats Mafia | Endgame

[Farkran]

Good morning, i want to let you know that 14 pages overnight are evil to me. Nevertheless, i skimmed them and filtered out the rvs noise to form these reads currently:

Firebringer town
Toadette town
Chara probably town

This is based on posts that i don't remember but sounded town. Discuss why i am wrong.

Also i have an announcement to make: i hate dogs. I am a cat person. I despise dogs deeply and i am glad i rolled some animal that isn't a dog, although i don't think i know what it is, probably a snake. I also like snakes.

[Farkran]

Lizards, and reptiles in general, are fine and on par with cats. I own 5 ground turtles!

[Farkran]

Pooky is also town, probably

Norwee are you town? I need some people to work with

[Farkran]

Oh wait toadette is pops? I'm fucked

I'm not sure she's town anymore, but i do hope she is

[Farkran]

I'm not sure if i like shiro

Shiro make a post that allows me to townread you

[Farkran]

toadette being Isis is an unsurprising development, Chara is just so fun to play with. :>
speaking of, FARKRAN, hello, it's so nice to see you.

HELLO AGAIN MY DEAR SIBLING

[Farkran]

I'm not sure if i like shiro

Shiro make a post that allows me to townread you

You cannot scumread this face now can you ?

Nyan~ i'm not sure, help me more

[Farkran]

Oh a budding wagon that I feel milquetoast about

VOTE: Farkran

why Fark here? was this vote in reaction to xofelf getting some votes?

Sort of

Something doesn't seem right about Fark, the votes on xof aren't terrible but it's a early D1 wagon that doesn't need my added vote.

Uh... we have just played a game together, what feels off about town!me?

[Farkran]

VOTE: Farkran

My heart suddenly broke. I still think you're in good faith though

[Farkran]

I'm assuming both of you disagree on my vote of Fark until proven otherwise

For the record i think this comes from town though, and cakez is also probably town

Why does shiro not ping me as town?

VOTE: shiro this might be an interesting place to start with

[Farkran]

Fark feels kinda stiff in their writing so far, so I get that

I don't think we've played together, we'll see how this develops

[Farkran]

i also thought unwnd's quick defense was kind of weird but the background behind it wasn't bad, not so much as "i also think Ivy is towny from that" but "this feels like a normal opinion", also so far this game no one but Fire has captured my heart (read: felt like their game is going a place)

Everyone's just joshing around at the moment, so there is no one to capture anyone's hearts. I'll probably review the unwnd/Fark thing later, but for today, this game has an incredibly low content-to-pages ratio and it's not actually worth the effort to try to distill anything out of it.

This is entirely correct but not sure if it is a Real Thought, noting this in my iso for later

[Farkran]

trying to get workable content out of the fluff is the quickest way to get out of that phase of the game, though.

True; I'm just not looking forward to reviewing 20 pages of dogposting and multiple layers of irony.

Sort of

Something doesn't seem right about Fark, the votes on xof aren't terrible but it's a early D1 wagon that doesn't need my added vote.

Is this a gut read, or do you have a specific thing that isn't right?

On the other hand this does sound like a real thought

[Farkran]

Oh a budding wagon that I feel milquetoast about

VOTE: Farkran

why Fark here? was this vote in reaction to xofelf getting some votes?

Sort of

Something doesn't seem right about Fark, the votes on xof aren't terrible but it's a early D1 wagon that doesn't need my added vote.

Uh... we have just played a game together, what feels off about town!me?

I think being opposite alignment (and scum) gives me a more direct look into your own behavior, and right now some things aren't lining up. As for what those things are? Guessing and tonal expectation

I will townbin you for today because i think this is a town approach to the current gamestate

[Farkran]

VOTE: Farkran

My heart suddenly broke. I still think you're in good faith though

what are you thinking about me?

pedit: i support you Andante.

Town for now, Chara. But what i said as scum last time still holds true, i have no idea about your townplay. I'll judge you more about things happening around you than your own posts

[Farkran]

Why does shiro not ping me as town?

Why does shiro not ping you as town?

There is less effort to produce town content than i would expect from shiro. The answer they gave to unwnd was uncommitting. Small stuff for now, but i have been strongly town pinged by unwnd and pooky for instance

[Farkran]

I have a lizard meeting to attend to but right now I would vote for Kazyan, Norwee, and Beeboy. Xof is still a decent wagon but it's not my personal interest

Only adding Beeboy if he continues to not play, because it is genuinely a scumclaim for him lol

Why kazyan and norwee?

Beeboy i have absolutely no impression about for now

[Farkran]

Hey Farkran are you with the cats or the dogs?

See my very first post in this game!

CATS DOMINATION

[Farkran]

i'm going to go enjoy some tea and cake, and i will see all of you tonight. <3

i've seen one beeboy game where he didn't play as scum but i thought it was an irl thing.

i also am not really sure of what your towngame is, Fark, but my expectations are

sky high

.

Well i did smash scum in my last game after my comeback! You shouldn't expect d1 solves though because my d1 solves are usually worse than trash.

I am kinda townhunting right now

[Farkran]

not really sure of the point of 526, is the idea that there's one scum in the antiposting camp worth making a list to sort out all the players? and more than that is Andante's idea one that holds water?

pedit: please do, i don't do well under the pressure of having to do it myself. :>

Eh not sure if that's correct but i think it's certainly useful + i like the towny approach, kazyan is very town to me

[Farkran]

I am... not going to be able to keep up with all the stuff, so here's how i'll organize my thoughts from now on

People that made an impression to me:
Unwnd
Chara
Norwee
Kazan
Pooky
Cakez
Toadette?
Shiro*

People who didn't:
Everyone else

I feel like i should have an impression of andante but i don't currently - probably because i have been subconsciously reading posts more attentively from people i already played with. The only one who stood out of those who i don't know is kazyan and that's a strong townping.

? denotes an impression without an alignment ping
* denotes a scumping

Following this up, i really don't understand the scumreads on kazyan, could you all summarize that for me?

[Farkran]

I mean i think unwnd and kazyan are, just like me, trying to put some order in this chaos

And i think that comes from town 100% of the time. It's not easy to keep up with all the posting, so they are trying to create a situation that they can keep up with. Even if they *could* be wrong, their thought process is positive.

[Farkran]

I'm not sure if i like shiro

Shiro make a post that allows me to townread you

You cannot scumread this face now can you ?

Nyan~ i'm not sure, help me more

Farkran i'm heartbroken at Shiro not being who i thought they were.
Will you be my new friend?

Yes, i think we are friends

[Farkran]

People that made an impression to me:
Unwnd
Chara
Norwee
Kazan
Pooky
Cakez
Toadette?
Shiro*

What kind of... "impression"

Impression as in, i remember something from them

Everyone else is a blank up to that point, as if they didn't even post at all. I skimmed through all of their posts and nothing struck me as important. I may be wrong.

That's more a note to me than anything relevant though. It's still early for a true readlist. I will want to reread after some real wagons happened

[Farkran]

I like how xofelf is adjusting to the gamestate instead of going back to rvs-y stuff

I just isoed them since they were top wagon and i don't understand why - if it is even a serious wagon? Which votes on xofelf are actually non-rvs scumreads?

[Farkran]

I like how xofelf is adjusting to the gamestate instead of going back to rvs-y stuff

I just isoed them since they were top wagon and i don't understand why - if it is even a serious wagon? Which votes on xofelf are actually non-rvs scumreads?

The wagon started because they were very defensive upon a couple of votes. Now that they're posting more I'm a bit perplexed on their analysis and as Save said I feel like them and Andante could be connected.

314 and 690 both ping me. 314 is a little jumpy and 587 was a bad post so i'm not sure why xof is calling it out as #goodposting. plus andante/xof are giving me connected vibes. it's not an earth shattering case, i know, but it's better than my random vote.

Liked these posts, although not sure if correct, i will give andante a read

[Farkran]

Oh, wow, andante iso is... not good. Content/posts ratio is really low, and when i met content i don't read it as an attempt to advance the gamestate, rather just to say that something was there. I don't like andante so far.

Based on *only* andante iso though i don't see the connection to xofelf, is it something that happens unilaterally from xofelf?

[Farkran]

VOTE: andante i feel like i can move my vote there

@unwnd why are our reads so clashingly different?

Pedit oh well the wagon grows with a good comp here

[Farkran]

Kaz has loads more content than Andante. I don't like Kaz's posts but acting like Andante's are better is baffling.

Andante takes the initiative by voting bad people, seeking out trouble fearlessly

Kaz sits at their desk writing up tall tales on potential good and bad people

I choose Andante every time

I mean this does not make sense to me, i see things literally opposite

However, i still think unwnd is town so i'd like to understand how we can have such contrast in our gamestate analysis

[Farkran]

VOTE: Andante

This blind vote on a rising wagon is concerning me.

VOTE: Andante

What kind of progression is this?

VOTE: andante
Just because that post they made about us being unable to yeet them pissed me off

"man your Andante progression sucks"

*votes Andante*

how did this happen twice how far down the rabbit hole can we go here

I feel that it could be specifically a reason why both votes come from town

[Farkran]

Yeah cakez ignoring his own hypocrisy is bad

And here's the opposite take lol unwnd whyyyyy

[Farkran]

Kaz has loads more content than Andante. I don't like Kaz's posts but acting like Andante's are better is baffling.

Andante takes the initiative by voting bad people, seeking out trouble fearlessly

Kaz sits at their desk writing up tall tales on potential good and bad people

I choose Andante every time

I mean this does not make sense to me, i see things literally opposite

However, i still think unwnd is town so i'd like to understand how we can have such contrast in our gamestate analysis

why exactly do you scumread Andante? i haven't seen any good reasons and i think she's town.

that's separate from finding Norwee's and then Cakes vote absolutely hilarious however.

Personally, i don't have any strong scumread so far, including andante. However, i dislike the content/posts ratio and the content itself from andante when i isoed her + i decided to move my vote there because the wagon comp isn't bad to me

Pedit: yeah, i townleaned norwee and when i pedited and saw cakez i liked it more

[Farkran]

I would like Fark to tell me more why he thinks Norwee is town.

Meta read, i played with norwee a fair amount of games. I am not 100% sure yet though it sounds like town norwee to me.

[Farkran]

I'm halfway through the game

Undecieded on Kazyanheart

Decidedly town on Dweeheart

Also decidedly town on Farheart

Wait who's farheart if i am farkheart?

[Farkran]

By the way my current opinion is that the kazyan wagon is scumdriven, i cannot believe for a second that he is being scumread for trying to organize the thread

Out of all the possible reasons to vote anyone, choosing to vote for busywork is terrible, and the wagon growing so high is opportunistic at best

Can we have a vc?

[Farkran]

Im ded sry scumteam will do better next time

No seriously though, there is scum on kazyan.

[Farkran]

Anya, that would have been more believable with beeboy still on no vote.

By the way my current opinion is that the kazyan wagon is scumdriven, i cannot believe for a second that he is being scumread for trying to organize the thread

Out of all the possible reasons to vote anyone, choosing to vote for busywork is terrible, and the wagon growing so high is opportunistic at best

Can we have a vc?

I think Kazyan's vote right now is on SirCakez. Bad vote imo. I also hated their sheep of Andante to vote kmdown earlier. Granted, I'm not on the wagon, but the wagon seemed to grow naturally in a response to people catching up with the thread voting for him. Unless you're suggesting Raya is forming a counterwagon to save Andante?

Not necessarily raya. Raya's recent posts weren't bad. But the wagon grew beyond plausibility - i lost track of how many people are there but i think it's about 5-6 now.

I do agree that the vote on sircakez is bad, but is it bad in a scummy way? I don't think so. Kmdown i need to read better.

[Farkran]

@dwlee are there really only 2 votes on kaz? I'm fairly sure i saw several people voting there. Did they all switch later?

[Farkran]

My highest tr right now is dwlee, i like the reasoning and i believe his effort is protown

I still tr kazyan, although some of his takes don't match mine, i think there's value in his approach to the game, scum wouldn't do that

I tr unwnd, he sounds like he really believes what he's saying although i agree with... pretty much nothing he said so far. This could be a bad sign or just a consequence of a large theme d1

Other trs have faded a little but i still want to believe my opinion on xofelf, pooky and firebringer

I need to take a look at kdown, anya, ivyeo. Shiro still a plausible lim for me.

See you all later

[Farkran]

I have taken a look at kdowns and i don't see scumminess. I can relate to their reasoning. That's a townbin for today, we can lim only 1 and he isn't a good candidate

[Farkran]

Read ivyeo iso too, not really a fan of that - not a strong read but it feels like they're attaching to other people's content rather than producing independent thoughts?

Reads also feel non-commital? I'd like to hear more, possibly some ewrly readlist

[Farkran]

good morning thread.

Fark let's talk as motivation for me to leave my warm bed.

Don't count on that, i barely find motivation to leave mine

[Farkran]

not to toot my own horn but I think I've been a big part of d1 so I felt a little left out of your post with reads in it dark. Any reason I'm not there?

It's true but somehow your posts didn't stick to my mind - as i said, could be because i paid more attention to players i already know. I will read you better later.

[Farkran]

@unwnd 1173

I am concerned about your takes because i townread you fairly strong tonally, however i become paranoid when none of our arguments have common ground - as much as i try to keep my mind open, having an opposite standpoint on every subject is a raises flag be wary of.

I didn't put much weight on your initial scumping of me, because i thought you were stirring the waters around a player whom you know to be responsive (me) and see what happens - i find that a good approach. Now i don't understand if you are actually scumreading me or not though, and if so i have yet to understand your reasons.

[Farkran]

Another aspect of it really is the fact I'm pretty sure Beeboy is not posting because he's scum. This is something I'm not really a fan of in general. It's exactly as Pooky said where it's reaching a trust tell and it has to be stopped. I will vote Beeboy every time under this pretense and if people don't see my own interpretations then they could at least have faith that this tell is truth. The people who are skirting around the issue at this point in a confbiased perspective are just potential mates who either A) pissed at him for flaking again B) trying to not lose a partner due to dumb shit. I don't really think all partners would assume the same thing and just tell me 'oh well maybe he's just busy' but I think Norwee and Farkran's response to it was the worst. Seriously Farkran how could you possibly townread Beeboy here for like two fucking posts lol. That immediately just tripped my alarms and Norwee is again playing to the whole latching on aspect.

Wait - i never talked about beeboy. That's one of the players that i didn't even read yet. I do remember people who said beeboy is known for hardlurking as scum, but i have never produced any read about them.

I have never played with beeboy, so i would have to trust other people's read on him, and to trust those reads i have to trust the people first

[Farkran]

Also Beeboy wagon sucks.

Why? This seems to have became a hot topic so please tell me why it sucks?

[Farkran]

It is Unwd. And you're one of the more arrogant players i've met to think you've "caught me" because i made some light jokes in a game.

Also this is 100% town!norwee

[Farkran]

It is Unwd. And you're one of the more arrogant players i've met to think you've "caught me" because i made some light jokes in a game.

Also this is 100% town!norwee

Farkran, my impression of you is that you're townreading basically everyone. Could you sum up who you think are most likely to be scum, if anyone?

I am townhunting, i.e. i can't form strong scumreads so i'm trying to form strong townreads.

Given that premise, there are a lot of people who i don't townread, and a few that scumpinged me, namely andante+shiro+maybe ivyeo

[Farkran]

But what if someone vigs Beeboy and we vote someone that will react more to pressure instead.

this is why i'm proposing a non-beeboy wagon right now. i think Raya's scummy, we can talk about that.

Saving this in my iso

If you could elaborate that would be even better!

[Farkran]

Nvm you already did

[Farkran]

why? what changed?

You did a thing you always do as town and I'm not telling you why

See, this for instance is one thing that scum never does

Raising the degree of certainty that a player is town based on meta memory always comes from town, in the same way of several previous unwnd posts. Scum does not raise or lower certainty because they already have 100% certainty.

unwnd is a strong townread, i just wish we agreed more.

[Farkran]

What are some topics that you are thinking about or believe we could discuss? I am not against you simply for scumreading you for behavior, I am always willing to work with people

I have a fairly strong townread on kaz whereas you have a scumread that i don't understand, based on the infamous "busywork posts" - at least that is my understanding of your position that i don't agree with

Diametrically opposite is our standing on andante - you say he's carefree, willing to put the face in his reads, i read his iso and see surface level content that doesn't sound like coming from town motivation. My read on andante isn't strong at all, but i feel a bit confused by the many people who townread him that strongly (including you)

Last but not least i don't understand your scumread on me, as i said i thought you were trying to start a conversation with me to see how i and other people would react, but recently it seems you actually scumread me and i don't understand why. We have just played together as tvs, i don't feel different than my past town self.

[Farkran]

More importantly though, since i'm fairly confident in my town core, i'd like to start talking about potential lim candidates that we can agree with. Set aside kaz and andante (and myself), who else would do you scumread with significant confidence?

pedit: above @unwnd, but norwee you can answer too since you're town to me

[Farkran]

Actually Unwd makes a good question. Why am i town to you Farkran?

I have already answered this, it's a metaread on your tone. Also when you call someone arrogant for scumreading you, you're town 99.9% of the times. I'm confident in this read.

[Farkran]

More importantly though, since i'm fairly confident in my town core, i'd like to start talking about potential lim candidates that we can agree with. Set aside kaz and andante (and myself), who else would do you scumread with significant confidence?

pedit: above @unwnd, but norwee you can answer too since you're town to me

A lot of the uncommon topics are all just leanings and gut feelings--

I have tinfoil on STD.
Flow trap weirds me out and maybe some pressure there wouldn't hurt. I can't say I definitively scumread them though.
Xof has fallen off the radar.
I don't hate Chara's vote on Raya though I'm a little worried I maybe gave Chara too much credit early; I don't townread Raya.
I miss Ivyeo and hope she isn't overwhelmed.

I think that's it? The problem I'm facing outside of what's being discussed is that it's been discussed so little and I think all the people aforementioned haven't really done anything telling. Ivyeo continues to lessen in my mind but my gut tells me (overwhelmed) may be the case.

I got scumpings from flow trap, but i admittedly didn't read him well yet. I'm trying to alternate isoing and real time conversations to sort people.
Xof is a nulltown to me, nothing strong though
Chara i will never fully townread, but so far i don't scumread either, whereas raya could be nullscum (pending a more attentive read)
Ivyeo could be scum

pedit: yes you should

[Farkran]

I'd like for you to take my #1404 with consideration as well, I would appreciate it immensely

See norwee, I'm not an arrogant SOB

At least not all the time

Kaz is a hot topic so i will be following the situation closely, but i just don't see the scumminess for now. I will reassess later with a clear mind maybe, but i'd rather look elsewhere for this d1. The amount of players is huge, we're probably looking at a 6 or 7 players scumteam(s) and likely at least 2 kills per night? I feel like we should be moving on for now, and return on this topic later if necessary

[Farkran]

VoteCount 1.22

Andante [4]

Nero Cain, dwlee99, farkran, kdowns

Kazyan [4]

raya36, brave heart lion, murdercat, sircakez

Beeboy [4]

pooky, unwnd, kazyan, andante

NorwegianboyEE [3]

shiro, save the dragons, flea

Save the Dragons [2]

norwegianboyee, flow trap

raya36 [2]

chara , anya

xofelf [1]

toadette

anya [1]

firebringer

Not Voting [3]

Beeboy, xofelf, ivyeo

With 24 alive it takes 13 votes to be executed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-05-17 20:33:31)

Hmm. Looking at this, i am thinking that:
1) the wagon on andante still looks good to me
2) the wagon on kazyan is bad
3) the wagon on beeboy could be good if i am to trust andante
4) the wagon on norwee is bad although 3 people barely count as a wagon, and 2 people definitely don't

Can we consolidate a bit more? Out of everyone in this game i am most confident on my dwlee and unwnd townreads, which makes it hard to decide where to go. Personally i'd honestly want andante over beeboy, but i see how beeboy could be scum anyways so i'm willing to compromise there. The wagons on kaz and norwee should not exist tbh.

[Farkran]

Anya's iso is actually quite bad

Votes are all over the place, almost all of them are bad consensus votes, the rest are jokes. I can see scum trying to look like they are doing something but the dots don't actually connect.

[Farkran]

MURDERCAT is also quite bad, only a handful of posts, a bad vote, and a voiced attempt at defending lurkers

That's not how town would approach that, if you think a lhf is being pushed you try to identify who's the scum behind it, you don't just defend the slot - that is only useful to take credit if the flip is town, but doesn't advance the gamestate

[Farkran]

Anya is always like that.

Anya is always like that.

this. my only worry is that her "this feels like 3 scum" might be a kinda slip. like if this is MB then 2 3 man scum teams for a total of 6 scum make sense in a 24 player.

Hmm, ok. I don't know anya. Does this match only their town meta, or both town and scum making it nai?

[Farkran]

pookythemagicalbear
Beeboy (maybe)
Kazyan
Andante
flow trap
Ivyeo
unwnd
firebringer???

I feel like this is where I might want to lynch from today.

Farkran
Brave Heart Lion

I'm someone skeptical of these two for maybe a silly reason. Like I know I'm being full of myself and all here but I think I'm a decent contender for a nightkill and these two not really mentioning me feels like scum that are planning on nking me.

This is a towny post, it makes sense to think that although it isn't correct - as i answered you before, i didn't read you yet, the player pool is large and i'm doing one thing at a time. Can't say much about braveheart, i correctly townreaded him in my last game but here i don't get the same pings, could be alignment indicative or simply the consequence of a different game structure and pace.

The list above is people you'd be willing to lim? i mean pooky beeboy etc

[Farkran]

I'm caught up and have nothing really worth mentioning other than i kinda feel better about andante and i feel like i want to move my vote to shiro if there's any interest.

I believe we're getting into the stage where wagons should be consolidating though and none of the top wagons are interesting to me atm, i already talked a lot about them and i'd like to get more content out of this d1

VOTE: shiro i encourage the growth of this wagon otherwise i'm going to compromise on beeboy by deadline.

[Farkran]

why do you feel better about Andante?

The conviction with which she says to be town actually seems to be coming from town. I would expect scum to give reasons why she's town, not just assert it like that. Also i want to give credit to unwnd and andante could alignspew later with that amount of posts, or be nked

Shiro is a better lim for today imo

[Farkran]

Also farkran should I buy new isaac

Haven't tried it yet but isaac has never let me down

Is there a Switch version? I play isaac on my switch

[Farkran]

why do you feel better about Andante?

The conviction with which she says to be town actually seems to be coming from town. I would expect scum to give reasons why she's town, not just assert it like that. Also i want to give credit to unwnd and andante could alignspew later with that amount of posts, or be nked

Shiro is a better lim for today imo

Do you read me based on my convinction too? <3

I think you are a real girl

Should be enough <3

[Farkran]

It's true that popsette is more hearty as town, i could buy that

But more than anything she's a real girl!!!1!

Serious note @nero 1721: that's something that worries me too but how confident are you about scum!andante over beeboy or shiro?

[Farkran]

Shiro what species of animal are you? For future reference

Also how much experience do you have with norwee and, if you have some, what does sound as scum!norwee here?

[Farkran]

@STD do you have any experience with norwee?

[Farkran]

i do not

Ok, thanks

I townlean you, maybe even a bit higher than a townlean, and wanted to understand your position on the norwee wagon.

I know where you come from since i've been scumreading norwee as town in the past, but i am confident he's town here. I want to learn all the standings on people on wagon if he happens to be flipped - although i suggest that he isn't.

[Farkran]

Loved how flea answered me without even asking! Maximum efficiency <3

Also i have grown enough confidence to call flea town too

[Farkran]

what's between a townlean and a townread? i tried coming up with some options

townglance
townpush
townrest
townsit

Townstand
Townpiece
Townround
Townwish

[Farkran]

fark really likes to ignore me this game. I thought he'd have a reaction to 1728

I mean you sound like me, when people don't put me at the center of their world i feel ignored lol

But really i am giving you the same attention as all players i never played before, which is not much because there are many. You know i share the same opinion on andante, but a lot of people are townreading her instead, and there's a chance i have been missing something that they caught, or vice versa. I used to be immensely more stubborn than this but i changed (improved, i'd like to think) my playstyle over time.

Anyways - i'm not sure andante is scum, i think she could be, but probably not the best d1 lim because she can alignspew later.

[Farkran]

Taking a super quick look at the leading wagons since I don't actually have much for thoughts on a couple.

Norwegian: First content post was voting Andante (which is a wagon I disagree with), second was townreading kazy (which is a townread I disagree with). What was it from xofelf you thought was a dumbtell? Says a blind vote on a rising wagon is concerning although he voted andante blank without caring how many votes were there, and then also blank votes a few posts later. That was already addressed though. I don't really think the pushes he made on Andante are very good. Like the interpretation in 1017. Voted STD for opportunistically joining his wagon (I do think someone mentioned town Norwegian gets defensive like this though). We kind of have the same stance on beeboy.
Shiro: There's not much to say until the readslist. Not that it's necessarily AI, but I do think they genuinely want to participate more. I'd like to see some reasoning on the confident townreads. For the scumreads too.
Andante: I think I've already talked enough about Andante.
Kazyan: I think I've also talked enough about Kazy
Beeboy: Waiting for the replacement would be ideal. I'm just not fully convinced this is scum!beeboy rather than busy and overwhelmed by this massive thread beeboy.

VOTE: norwegian
Gonne move here for a bit

I disagree with this post at least in 4 different instances

1. Andante has been scummy and had a bad iso
2. Kazyan is super towny
3. Norwee is also town
4. Defending beeboy for no reason? Unless you have a different experience with beeboy than the 3 or 4 people who said he's hardlurking as scum - this is not to say beeboy is certainly scum but i dislike the contrast in confidence if there's no reason to justify that

Raya could be scum

[Farkran]

I agree with Cakez. That feels hella weird. What's up with that, Raya?

Eh. I'm catching up and i'm glad to see people who shared the exact same sentiments as i just posted.

Confidence in cakez and xofelf town rising

[Farkran]

Time to catch up on 30 more pages, but I have a feeling we are just gunna yeet Titus?

Kinda a bummer tbh :/

This is also a very bad post :\

I feel murdercat is being sliding utr with little and poor content today, could we talk more about it?

[Farkran]

Alright, done rereading and add Shiro to my TRs,
Looking at Norwee as the biggest wagon, their response to being wagon'd is the only thing that pinged me in their ISO. Things like calling their wagon crappy, and just kinda discrediting it instead of looking for scum on it just doesn't feel like a towny mindset
VOTE: Norwe

what's your proof dwlee

VOTE: Norwegian

Terrible jump-ins

[Farkran]

I don't remember asking you any questions. I'm currently scumreading Andante, Anya, Flow, Raya, Shiro, and maybe Pooky? This list is in no particular order and all have varying degrees of certainty.

My reasoning for Andante is clear I think if you look through my ISO or read Nero's posts. In essence, until maybe the last 10 hours-ish I felt like she wasn't doing anything content-wise. This has since changed (which is why I made my post about not letting her off the hook), but her reactions to the votes were strange and her case against Anya was incredibly hypocritical earlier. She accused Anya of primarily fluff posting when 1. Anya has posted a decent amount of content from what I remember and 2. Andante does not get to accuse others of posting fluff.

Anya bothers me for reasons I've posted on the page and last page. I liked her content when she was pushing Raya earlier because she was saying things I had picked up on that I didn't like about Raya. Now she has moved her vote enough times it feels nonsensical and hasn't actually used her vote to push anyone. She claimed she was switching to Murdercat to pressure him and then moved it before he even came back.

It's been a while since I've really ingested a flow post but I didn't like the general vibes of its posts and itwas on-off the beeboy wagon at some point. If the beeboy slot is scum I think we should look to flow as a possible not really committed busser.

Raya worries me because I remember not liking her reasoning about the Andante wagon. She said it felt opportunistic but didn't really expand on that. I guess this is the reminder she asked for to answer that question @Raya.

I didn't like Shiro's posts before his return from lurkville. Bad vibes it seems. The posts since haven't convinced me of him being town either.

Pooky has a question mark but I feel like they're kind of being disingenuous with their meta read on beeboy. Apparently we just have differing opinions on "trying" from beeboy in some other games, but I felt it was pretty clear that the posting in the games I linked constituted much more than what happened this game. There was a game beeboy replaced in as scum and I believe tried despite being pretty much the guaranteed lynch iirc, and a game where beeboy shitposted as scum quite a bit. As to the latter, I think that beeboy could have easily jumped in early game with all the shit posts. That he didn't indicates to me that the lack of posts is not really alignment indicative, but pooky disagrees on what I feel are dubious grounds which was just this.

we have very different definitions of "trying" since I used those examples as times where I played with scum!beeboy and he didn't try at all lol

After typing this all up I almost want to move Pooky away from the question mark I have associated with them but I'm still not sure if I'm missing something crucial about the Beeboy games that were linked.

I agree a lot with dwlee. Although i don't scumread pooky. It is true that the town!pooky who fought me two games ago was much more active though. I might want to reassess later, but definitely far from my today's favorite lim

[Farkran]

Braveheart also improved a lot

And that concludes my catchup.

I kinda want to vote raya as i get more confident they're scum, i'm... likely more confident on them scum than shiro. If my memory serves and shiro hasn't changed playstyle, probably she wouldn't townread her detractors...?

I'll think over it a bit more, please share your opinions on the subject

[Farkran]

(ot: i apologize for any wrong pronoun i am using, i am trying to use a gender/identity neutral pronoun every time i forget the specific pronoun you wanted. It's very hard to remember everyone when i have never played with you and i can't see or hear you to intuitively guess your status - please take no offense)

[Farkran]

(ot: i apologize for any wrong pronoun i am using, i am trying to use a gender/identity neutral pronoun every time i forget the specific pronoun you wanted. It's very hard to remember everyone when i have never played with you and i can't see or hear you to intuitively guess your status - please take no offense)

(if you heard me you'd get it wrong more )

(Well maybe, but at least i'd have some additional input to work with instead of just the username! Luckily for you though, chrono trigger is one of my all time favorites so your username doesn't fall unnoticed <3)

[Farkran]

I want to vote murdercat. I mean, all my vote switches so far haven't been strong reconsiderations of the slots, rather i moved onto targets that i feel more confident scumreading

I think murdercat has the highest chance to flip scum out of all of them right now, although i could also see a world where all of them are scum. I guess we need a flip.

VOTE: murdercat

Please show me if there is any interest

[Farkran]

Wrt titus i have to say the rep-in didn't make me happy (alignment-wise, i have nothing against titus as a person lol)

It would have been fairly easy to understand why her slot has been run up. The slot was hardlurking with a reported meta of a scum lurker - i don't think it's being used as a counterwagon to scum, at least by those who led the wagon (i.e. pooky, kazyan, unwnd)

Murdercat being there is concerning though.

[Farkran]

Wrt titus i have to say the rep-in didn't make me happy (alignment-wise, i have nothing against titus as a person lol)

It would have been fairly easy to understand why her slot has been run up. The slot was hardlurking with a reported meta of a scum lurker - i don't think it's being used as a counterwagon to scum, at least by those who led the wagon (i.e. pooky, kazyan, unwnd)

Murdercat being there is concerning though.

The hard lurking point should stop at the subout. That indicates IRL. If beeboy was scum hard lurking, he'd post just enough to stay in the game.

There have been people saying he wouldn't and that it's a borderline trust tell. I wouldn't know, but that's what has been said in the thread and it's up to you to change their mind

To be honest though i think murdercat has higher chances to flip red, to answer @ivyeo next post while i am here

[Farkran]

Fark do you still think Norwee is town?

No reason to change my mind, i'm still opposed to his lim

[Farkran]

i will promise to drive the dwlee elim tomm after titus flips red today

Dwlee? Why?

[Farkran]

Ok. I am claiming now.

I am a cop that checks for Aliens.

Oh.

Hmm.

Talking about alien in general (as opposed to earthly animals) or the Alien role? Do you know?

[Farkran]

I think the claim is not beyond plausibility, although i don't know what to make with titus.

I don't townread her, and the lim would be rich. But i don't scumread her as much as other people as well.

Also i townread dwlee a lot

[Farkran]

you guys know that alien is also a role...

I asked titus, she said it's probably not referring to the role

[Farkran]

If there is no interest in murdercat i'll probably switch back to shiro, or probably raya

[Farkran]

Thoughts on a shiro wagon?

Eh, i'm still ok with that. Would rather do murdercat.

[Farkran]

Thoughts on a shiro wagon?

Eh, i'm still ok with that. Would rather do murdercat.

I mean especially in light of the fact that titus could be town, murdercat looks horrible on that wagon.

[Farkran]

Thoughts on a shiro wagon?

Eh, i'm still ok with that. Would rather do murdercat.

Can I hear the murdercat case?

After i read their iso i found nothing worth townreading vs the other people i isoed

The content is little and poor, i pretty much disagree with all of their votes + it's lurky and UTRy

Compared to the alternatives i think this has the highest chances to flip red

[Farkran]

Thoughts on a shiro wagon?

Eh, i'm still ok with that. Would rather do murdercat.

Can I hear the murdercat case?

After i read their iso i found nothing worth townreading vs the other people i isoed

The content is little and poor, i pretty much disagree with all of their votes + it's lurky and UTRy

Compared to the alternatives i think this has the highest chances to flip red

that's fair. so if you compare murder and shiro... do you think shiro is better? the shiro iso is bad...

It is. I did not give up on shiro. I can count as a vote on shiro, although right now i'm less confident.

[Farkran]

I will not lim any of these people: unwnd, kazyan, norwee, cakez, dwlee, nero cain. These are currently my core.

People i'd like to see the flip who also have a significant chance to be scum: murdercat, shiro, ivyeo, raya.

There are very likely more scum than that though, so i won't fight against any of my nullreads.

A note on titus: we have a strong claim, and an active slot in a 24p game. She is never, ever, ever getting to elo. Even moreso if we're in a multiball.

I don't think that's the better lim today.

[Farkran]

I disagree a lot with the current binary options, i'd much rather look elsewhere for today.

I've been insisting on murdercat for a while and most of the playerlist answered, seems that it isn't interesting enough

VOTE: shiro

[Farkran]

More about titus: to be honest i don't think she would have claimed at e-5 (give or take one) with such a strong claim if she was scum. Again, especially in a multiball that's a super suicidal claim to make d1. In a singleball game that would make a lot more sense but that's a risk i'm ok to check later after we've seen flips and nk count. D3 is already enough to assess that.

I only see value in that claim if town and willing to direct the lim on a useful target. We have 4 irl days to decide, it's not too late imo.

[Farkran]

GUYS. YOU ARE LITERALLY ONLY VOTING TITUS BECAUSE OF THE BEEBOY "META" step back for 1 second and consider this being town.

not after the claim

And I'm telling all of you, based on my role pm, I 100% believe Titus. And I'm certain someone here has to also have this info, unless I'm just informed, which could work, idk. I'm not outing stuff. I believe Titus.

I mean i believe this over anything else that has been said so far

EVEN if andante is scum, here she TMIs titus town over protecting her scum!titus partner

If andante is town otoh she has no reason to lie

[Farkran]

I am about to townread andante omg

But i still don't think kazyan is scum, even if i too dislike their votes. I think the mind behind them is town. Town can be wrong. Well, even i can be wrong. But i'm not voting kaz today

[Farkran]

Pooky would you still scumread titus if she started the game instead of replacing beeboy?

[Farkran]

Pooky would you still scumread titus if she started the game instead of replacing beeboy?

95% of the SR is beeboy being a divergent trust-teller who doesn't play when he gets a scum role pm.

5% is I don't believe there's Bojack Horseman Alien Cop in the game.

If Beeboy had never played this game and Titus started in the slot I probably would leave her alone.

Fair enough

Do you have any other scumread right now?

[Farkran]

@dwlee 2481

Maybe i forced a scumtell on raya that actually wasn't real since she wasn't the only one defending the beeboy slot before it became titus

Altough i'm pretty sure that i didn't like it tonally, in contrast to how people like you and norwee asked to wait & reassess later. Now though i think that titus is actually more likely to flip town than scum, so raya is probably less guilty of that particular point, defending a lurker town slot shouldn't come from scum - the other 3 points still stand though and all in all i wouldn't be opposed to a raya lim even if it's not my current fav

[Farkran]

I don't know what to do with this gamestate tbh, i think both top wagons are dirty and the players i believe to be town are not cooperating lol

Like, i'm seriously amazed that there is no wagon going on at least one of my top scumreads, can we consolidate on a wagon that is worth wagoning instead of simply giving up?

My best guess is still murdercat, but i'd be fine with shiro, raya, ivyeo and let's also add anya and flow trap

Can we do it?

[Farkran]

VOTE: murdercat

[Farkran]

I've read very little since my last post

I seek farkran's permission to vote murdercat

Please do

[Farkran]

we can share a laugh when the game is over about how she saved a doomed slot by claiming Bojack Horseman Alien Cop but as it stands I have no more patience left to reason with the people in this game and I pray for a quick bullet in the head.

Anyways this is town pooky, to everyone who believes the contrary

Wouldn't insist so much as scum, regardless of correctness

[Farkran]

Wrt murdercat, idk. The catchup wasn't bad. But it's late to wake up with something good after we had at least 3 high wagons who were not him, and he was just ok to let them go. I still find that approach scummy, we can go ahead.

[Farkran]

I honestly have nothing more to add to this day, i have already said my piece about murdercat, we have a claim and i find no reason to believe it over titus' d1 cop claim + iso is bad + he woke up only after being voted when he let all the other wagons go through

I'm confident in this flip, norwee is not scum, and if i say anything more i'll just repeat myself over and over because Shiro is also scum, probably anya too

[Farkran]

To be clear about it, i too like murdercat after he has been wagoned, but what do you expect? "aw guys you caught me, i'm scum and my partners are x and y"?

He could be town, ok. As anyone else. But this flip still has the highest chance to be scum.

[Farkran]

So i guess in this game town is having fun in ending d1 with a no lim

I mean i understand scum, it"s their job

But town?

[Farkran]

Norwee dwlee chara flea nerocain please vote murdercat and move on

[Farkran]

Norwee dwlee chara flea nerocain please vote murdercat and move on

Why would I vote someone I townread when it isn't time-sensitive?

At this point it seems like day is just going to be running up lurkers til they town spew at E-1. I'd rather focus on Anya or Pooky still.

Why do you townread murdercat? Is there anything i don't see?

[Farkran]

I'm inclined to believe that Xof just does that because lying about their own meta would be very dumb.

Norwee dwlee chara flea nerocain please vote murdercat and move on

Why would I vote someone I townread when it isn't time-sensitive?

At this point it seems like day is just going to be running up lurkers til they town spew at E-1. I'd rather focus on Anya or Pooky still.

Why do you townread murdercat? Is there anything i don't see?

Read the E-1 spew + content since being voted up. It screams town to me.

I did

And i am not buying that he had nothing to say before being runned up but now that he risked dying he has suddenly a lot of stuff to say

I don't know what to tell you guys, at this point i would be fine with limming shiro or flow trap, maybe even fb, but i am shocked that we're expecting scum to not even try to look town when dying

[Farkran]

I did

And i am not buying that he had nothing to say before being runned up but now that he risked dying he has suddenly a lot of stuff to say

With the pace of the game I buy that he wasn't caught up.

I don't know what to tell you guys, at this point i would be fine with limming shiro or flow trap, maybe even fb, but i am shocked that we're expecting scum to not even try to look town when dying

Could I interest you in an Anya vote?

Not over murdercat but i wouldn't fight it

If i had to change wagon it would be on shiro

[Farkran]

Is there a case on Shiro cause I didn't see one from Farkan

Iso me

[Farkran]

I did

Now iso shiro

[Farkran]

I did

Now iso shiro

Why would shiro make a case on themselves?

Do you see anything towny from shiro?

I mean, why do you guys expect that all scum are in the vocal people? Just because you don't agree with their reads?

[Farkran]

I guess my ability to read norwee actually sucks, he's got his revenge after he townreaded me in my last normal game.

Not only that, but my overall reads sucked quite a lot yesterday since now i think

shiro and murdercat are likely town

.

I'm also glad to see some good Chara reasoning that probably makes it town too - i wasn't so sure yesterday.

Anyways, i have pretty much hardproof that the scum factions are cats and dogs, and since i'm already quite under the spotlight i will also reveal that

the cats killed Nero Cain

.

[Farkran]

Since we have a second kill that was probably made by the dogs (i doubt nero shoots unwnd here, and even if he did we'd be missing a dog kill), and no other kills (no sk?) i don't know what to make of titus claim today, but it's still fine as long as we don't forget this in later days.

Reminder for my iso that she said kazyan is not an alien in d2

[Farkran]

Now let's take a look at the VCs - in retrospect of the red flip, i think dwlee is still not mafia. Not dogs because he would have voted norwee, not cats for how he questioned me while i was hard defending his partner, he would have done a better job helping me limming murdercat instead. Dwlee still a solid townread.

Andante could very well be cat mafia here, he voted in 2 counterwagons to norwee yesterday but not titus. I have done the same though, so eh :/ maybe the difference is that i started and led both the shiro and murdercat wagons whereas other people like andante joined to save their partner? Maybe. Just taking note of this here.

The same goes about sircakez, never voted norwee + joined all counterwagons except titus

Kazyan at some point jumped on norwee and it raised its momentum significantly compared to the murdercat wagon (2900) - he was not forced to bus, so still likely town but particularly not cat mafia. Same about Raya and ivyeo, although they could be dogs imo.

Braveheart voted titus and murdercat but not shiro, never voted norwee. Could be cat, he questioned me but also joined my wagons for conveniency. This could be a good vote for today.

Firebringer not a cat, switched to norwee in 3112 giving it a significant momentum + i can see why he is pointing at me today, it makes sense and i don't think it comes from dogs, this is a townread.

STD not cats, joined norwee for momentum, also probably town

Kdowns maybe cat, flea maybe cat

Anya not cat, could be dog

Toadette switched too much and i have no idea but she looks within her town meta maybe

Xofelf i have no idea

[Farkran]

hey farkran whats up

I just summarized whats up to me, if you have questions i'll be around in a bit

[Farkran]

Hmm, i left pooky out and he could be a cat too, but i feel like he's playing his town meta so i'm ok

Pedit: oh, i just skimmed because 13 pages overnight - where did he do that? I'll iso

[Farkran]

i almost want to fake an inno on andante because otherwise none of yall will listen to me. So annoying.

Because you can’t. I’m a Dog Cop and I investigated Anda last night and got confirmation on her being a dog.

Ah, there it is. I actually believe this a lot.

[Farkran]

Before we vote Titus.

How does it say you’re a cop? Does it just out right say it?

This also very likely a crumb from yesterday

[Farkran]

Next vote for andante is e-1 but with a hard guilty check i think she'll selfvote here, so won't join for now but i'm completely fine with limming her

[Farkran]

farkran what do you make of these heavy hitting hard claims that you were last seen with norwegian before his untimely demise and there were a lot of scratch posts involved

I make that norwee fooled me and he's going to pay for that in our next game

Although i'm also proud of him because he's a friend and i like when friends are good at misleading me in a game of mafia

[Farkran]

Andante is e-1

[Farkran]

Oh i have also just noticed that nero was even night vig so he couldn't have shot n1

[Farkran]

Wow my reads sucked majorly

Wtf happened to the dogs though? Sk?

[Farkran]

and if it was a SK where did the dog mafia kill go???

Probably attacked kdowns and healed?

[Farkran]

@titus claim your result before you get exterminated

[Farkran]

what do you think about fark's alternate SK theory?

Occam's razor says less likely imo?

Why? Do you think it's more plausible that there are two vigs? Or maybe a redirector that only redirect kills?

[Farkran]

If alien = sk titus is still believable to me

We have two dog deaths with one flipped town vig and it's very likely that dogs targeted kdowns (because confirmed cop) but was protected.

Also during n1, remember that nero was EVEN NIGHT vig and he was killed by cats OR sk, not dogs

[Farkran]

I'm a bit lost because my reads were shitlevel but i kinda want to kill braveheart today :\ i'm also not a huge fan of the recently trigger happy anya and toadette tbh. Ivyeo or flowtrap, who knows, i will need to reassess a lot

[Farkran]

Titus could be the sk though, that would also make a lot of sense as opposed to a sk cop and we could still lim there and work forward with the two non-sk results we have from her

Pedit @chara: yeah but i need to get to my pc otherwise it will take years

[Farkran]

(almost) guaranteed fact summary:
2 cats left
1 dog left
1 non explained kill that could be sk
N1 is missing a dog (or sk) kill
N2 is missing a dog kill

Claims:
Titus = alien cop
Murdecat = VT
Kdowns = dog cop (confirmed)

Checks:
Kazyan = not alien
Toadette = not alien
Titus = not dog

[Farkran]

I find it extremely unlikely that there are an alien cop and a dog cop without a cat cop though

That would put dogs at an extreme disadvantage compared to other enemy factions - maybe cats have a traitor to compensate? Maybe titus is a cat traitor or sk? Maybe kdowns is a dog rolecop that checked andante because of the pr claim?

I'm just trying to redefine associatives rn, taking notes about plausibility.

Anyways, based on the d1 VCs and vote patterns i think Toadette could very well be a cat. @pops tell me why you are not a cat?

[Farkran]

The missing N2 dog kill though really points to kdowns being a real dog cop that was protected, let's not paranoia over that

VOTE: toadette

Chara what's your input on pops?

[Farkran]

Also what's the current case on titus? Because the only options left for her are cat and sk

But she has been a solid counterwagon to norwee for the whole d1

[Farkran]

I can't remember precisely what my standing compared to norwee wagon was but I remember finding some stuff scummy but someone I put some amount of stock in going "norwee is always town here" and that turning the bike pedals backwards some

was this someone Fark?

Yeah it was me and i want to see cat pt postgame to see what norwee had to say about it

Btw I'm currently rereading dwlee+fire and the most i have figured out of that is kazyan slot is likely not a dog based on how dwlee kept attacking there

[Farkran]

The missing N2 dog kill though really points to kdowns being a real dog cop that was protected, let's not paranoia over that

VOTE: toadette

Chara what's your input on pops?

i have some reasons to believe she is town that are less than i have to be worried about her being scum, are you voting her on a partner tell thing?
i think town Isis also wants to vote Titus here because i still do, so i wouldn't scumread her for that.

the murdercat vote from her is kind of ? though? like i see why she did it but it seems very reactionary and i don't remember seeing a murdercat SR from her.

I am voting her because VCA which is partner-ish to cats but also scummy in a vacuum given how days have ended

I think she's pushing a lot of people for not so valid reasons.

That being said, Shiro voting brave is also appealing

[Farkran]

VOTE: brave let's put some more weight on this actually

[Farkran]

Also i've been thinking that dwlee was probably killed by cats believing he could be town, which could mean that some of his reads were threatening (2921)

Although anya doesn't really fit as a cat based on vca

Maybe pooky is actually a cat pushing beeboy to save norwee? Hmmm

[Farkran]

Also i've been thinking that dwlee was probably killed by cats believing he could be town, which could mean that some of his reads were threatening (2921)

Although anya doesn't really fit as a cat based on vca

Maybe pooky is actually a cat pushing beeboy to save norwee? Hmmm

Wait why do you think they thought dwlee was town?

Not many people scumreaded dwlee, i personally townreaded him strongly, and he received almost no votes

[Farkran]

Present and accounted for.

I'm not reading the whole game, if anyone has suggestions for relevant parts to look at that would be appreciated.

Oh hi SS, we meet again! Your slot isn't one of my favs, but so was last game, and in this one my reads suck more than usual so eh

[Farkran]

titus and pooky are the cats

pooky unvoted hoping to start a trend but it didn't really work out for him

this theory is even more unbelievable than the existence of aliens in real life

Wait who's emily?

[Farkran]

(almost) guaranteed fact summary:
2 cats left
1 dog left
1 non explained kill that could be sk
N1 is missing a dog (or sk) kill
N2 is missing a dog kill

Claims:
Titus = alien cop
Murdecat = VT
Kdowns = dog cop (confirmed)

Checks:
Kazyan = not alien
Toadette = not alien
Titus = not dog

Also @SS i just compiled this a couple posts ago

[Farkran]

Hi Fark! Ty for the summary.

Do we know both scumteams are size 3?

We do not know for sure, it was my assumption

[Farkran]

I fos those mentioning miller yesterday. I don't remember who it was though. They might have known Anda wasn't a dog because they were dogs.

This could be a good point, although i see pooky more plausibly as cat than dog based on VCA.

IIRC he was the main driver of your wagon as a counter to norwee, and joined against murdercat later when he became top wagon. Maybe that's also my fault, but i fail to see why pooky pushes you today and that makes me worried about his good faith

I don't think pooky and murdercat are aligned anyways, and murdercat probably isn't a cat. Now i townread murdercat though tbh

[Farkran]

Good things about limming titus:
1. We remove a controversial slot + controversial claim that doesn't have a place in elo
2. We gain two confirmed non-alien slots in case of a green flip. We could work with this
3. We learn from the d1 and d3 VCA

Bad things about limming titus:
A. I think she's more likely to flip town > third party >>> scum
B. Previous point 2 can be achieved later in the game so why do it now?

[Farkran]

I forgot that unwnd died, that was probably the dog kill

I did say that nero cain was killed by the cats though, i still stand by that

[Farkran]

I'm unsure what to do about pooky. He seems to be playing within hisbtown meta based on what i know from him (a grand total of 1 town game and 1 scumgame).

I like the wagon against him more than the alternative going on titus though. I feel like i should interact more with STD or at least iso him.

*time passed as i went isoing STD*

Doesn't seem to be a Cat based on the norwee wagon. Also the iso isn't bad. I'm ok with STD.

Why are you voting pooky though?

[Farkran]

Guys, I also think pooky is scum here but he is dog scum and it is in our interest to eliminate cats.

Wait what?

[Farkran]

Guys, I also think pooky is scum here but he is dog scum and it is in our interest to eliminate cats.

Wait what?

What is it ?

Well, i think if pooky is scum it's a cat, but aside from that, now that two dogs died we should ideally lim dogs

But even then, i think we should lim a scummy slot regardless of its faction, so your post was just very weird to read

[Farkran]

Pooky what do you say wrt the accuses of being a cat?

I do agree that you don't smell like a dog, but cats could work

[Farkran]

Pooky what do you say wrt the accuses of being a cat?

I do agree that you don't smell like a dog, but cats could work

Wait, if that is so who do you think is potentially dog?

I don't know, i isoed dwlee+fire but didn't find any useful associative, only anti-associatives

Based on my srs though it could be braveheart or the ivyeo slot. Maybe flow trap?

[Farkran]

how do you know the dogs didnt kill on night 1?

I don't, no one but the dogs do but farkan brought it up and refuses to comment on it now

I never said that dogs didn't kill n1. I said that nero cain was killed by the cats.

Unwnd could have been killed by the dogs, which is the most likely explanation, but in that case we're missing a sk kill imo.

If there isn't a third party killer, i have no explanation for the two dogs dead n2

[Farkran]

Anyways. I feel like braveheart pushing me is towny.

Pooky is still a mystery, i don't particularly scumread him but i don't understand several of his plays, i.e. his pushes don't look like coming from town although the tone does

*goes reading norwee iso while writing*

I think cakez is TMIed non-cat by norwee's 658.

Post 685 about xofelf has a different nuance though, i will need to cross-check xofelf again.

Posts wrt STD 769 and 1192 could be theatrics? But i don't scumread STD so i'll leave it at that

Flow trap probably non-cat based on 1110, i don't think that's a question you ask to a scumpartner. Also there's more in 2424,2474, 2668 and a lot more going forward in his iso. Doesn't look like theatrics.

1304 and 1505 don't sound like how you would address a scumpartner, wrt titus. It seems like they're defending the slot without actually committing to save them

1945 sircakez could actually be a cat and that could be a good reason why i'm alive :\

[Farkran]

End of the line i think that at least 1 in {pooky, xofelf, cakez} is a cat. Pooky and cakez are strongly disaligned though, so i'd like to 1v1 them today and see where this leads us.

VOTE: pooky

[Farkran]

Pooky if you're town you should pay attention to the game

You should know i'm not scum, even if i had shitlevel reads. This could be another shitlevel read, help me understanding if it is. I don't believe your push on titus and you have associatives with norwee. Out of the people who are voting you now, how many scum are there in your opinion?

[Farkran]

raya and fark should both be scum here

i dunno wtf cake is doing he could just be playing badly

This is a poor way to engage your wagon, i've seen better from town!you when i was scum

I am already quite sure you aren't a dog though, but the possibility of you being a cat is there. Cross-ISO between you and norwee is almost a net zero except for 1016, and 2457 that you bring out in your screenshot. Those aren't scumreads, aren't townreads either, but at the end of the day you were willing to vote murdercat but not norwee. Why didn't you vote norwee?

[Farkran]

Yeah but, i understand why you didn't vote dwlee as the wagon wasn't going to happen - norwee though happened many times during d1 yet you never voted them

Also your scumread on norwee doesn't look like a real scumread, more like distancing?

@other people am i wrong? Share your pov on the situation please

[Farkran]

Honestly, nothin I seen about the pooks case is good. but I ain't seen much.

Pooks nailed at least 2 scum of different factions and in good ol pooky style. How is this bad again?

Why do you say 2 scum of different factions? Which cat has been nailed by pooky, and where?

[Farkran]

i dont get where this pooky catches bad guys = pooky is bussing narrative is coming from

its actually wild Farkran is getting away with this but w/e

I never said you bussed, i said i don't believe your scumread on norwee because you didn't vote them when they were a very valid option during d1. I find it weird that, if you claim you were scumreading norwee, you miss the opportunity to join against them and join murdercat instead.

Also by reading your iso i see a clear scumread and push on dwlee, but only a couple posts on norwee that aren't even close to a push - this is why i think you can be a cat.

[Farkran]

Pooky, your push is bad and i think that's because you're scum

You have literally quoted a post where i flavorclaimed as a snake as a reason to push me, and that's not even close to the most important reason why i cannot be scum here, i think at least 60% of the playerlist should have noticed that by now

[Farkran]

@other people am i wrong? Share your pov on the situation please

i am gelling with all you are saying

i'll admit i may have been wrong about pooky having 1 scum read d1 but i don't see a lot of push other than for beeboy/titus.

i'm going back and forth because i think titus could be scum and i just don't know if they're scum together or not. it's a lot of bussing but if pooky knows a) beeboy is scum and b) beeboy doesn't play as scum, then why not take the shot for towncred? i know i know it's multiball that could be dangerous.

there's just something off about pooky's play this game.

I really don't think pooky and titus are scum together here, even netting that i don't think titus is scum at all

Cat traitor is an interesting theory but i think traitors don't know their factional kill target? Besides, i think the cat traitor would also have a cat flavor.

[Farkran]

This push from pooky is clearly scum-motivated tbh

There's no way you'd build a case based on a snake crumb that you didn't even realize until i told you, lol. You're using inductive reasoning after you decided i must be scum instead of isoing me like i suggested you should have several posts ago - you don't care about sorting me, you only care about pushing your voters instead of understanding other people's reasoning. Your reaction to my vote is scummy.

Also i'm glad that i'm not the only one who sees that your push on norwee is non-existent, and there's still the fact that you never voted them when they were a super viable wagon, instead you tunneled on beeboy and ultimately voted murdercat.

[Farkran]

This push from pooky is clearly scum-motivated tbh

This seems also wrong, how can you be sure of this

Because the case on me is not real and he's using made up evidence? I mean it's not hard to understand why i am town after isoing me

[Farkran]

Because the case on me is not real and he's using made up evidence?

Why is it made-up rather than misinterpreted?

I don't think he really believes his push when he says i am a cat traitor for flavorclaiming a snake + there's no attempt to sort me, he just keeps adding up inductive reasoning to fuel his push

Anyways i'm giving up this 1v1 because you're arguing in bad faith pooky

[Farkran]

If i get to 6 votes i will claim and you all will feel as dumb as ever

[Farkran]

HOW DOES HE KNOW THAT

I ASKED HIM 4 TIMES AND HE'S AVOIDED IT

it is weird that he avoided the question i wouldn't mind an explanation

it seems really obvious to me why Fark hasn't answered this question.

^ this player has read my iso

[Farkran]

some of my reads are getting stale
need to reassess
i really thought Ivyeo is scum but now SS is in that slot and I always feel weird SRing SS because I've misread him so many times before
ugh

SS replacing in made me SR the slot more for the completely unfair reason of i was scum with SS recently and he just vibes completely the same no matter his alignment, apparently.

Maybe. I feel the same about SS, i can't read him at all.

[Farkran]

Chara when you're here gimme your low-down on Pooks <3 I ain't diggin for it.

honestly I ain't feel scumpooks here at all.

i don't have any particular insight on Pooky as a player, why do you ask me specifically?

UNVOTE:
but from what i do know, his energy here is very reminiscent of town pooky i've seen before when he's pushed, i did end up giving the back and forth a better read and i see where he came up with the Farkran traitor thing. i do think his interactions with Norwee are not great but this isn't new and i'm coming around to the idea i'm not great at analyzing specific interactions.

but liking pooky more doesn't mean i agree with Fark scum at all, i'm not sure why that is a wagon.

I have the same feelings about his energy and behavior, he did the same thing on me when i was scum in the normal game we played together, but that time his reasoning made sense, here it really does not imo. The snake thing is an immense asspull to fuel a traitor theory, and after reading the role wiki i'm 99% sure a traitor wouldn't know their teammates' target. Also based on your posts i think you know exactly what i am.

Moreover, i feel like at the start of our 1v1 he used the same nichilistic nuance that he used in the game where he was scum with skitter, and the subsequent discussion was all but a fake.

Unless you know scum!pooky meta and this is very far from his scumrange?

[Farkran]

Snakes are also associated with something else in history, not just treachery

I may as well just claim now lol

[Farkran]

VOTE: toadette

i keep thinking about how she reacted to my kind of towncasing her. like, i get being worried that scum is whiteknighting you, but she doesn't actually seem all that worried about that besides as a thing to waffle about. it's just been weird.

someone can talk to me about this too, i still think scum Isis's game is more.. developed, than this? but i also don't see why town Isis is playing in this way that feels like she doesn't care very much about where the elim goes. but mostly the way she's reacted to my reads on her this game has been weird.

pedit: SS is Something_Smart

I will be honest wrt pops - i played town against scum!her twice and scum against town!her once. I cannot associate her to any of my past experience, so i tried to read her in a meta vacuum and i'm leaning scum, but my confidence is really low.

[Farkran]

Meh ok then, chara pretty much literally said it lol

I am a DOG DOCTOR. I protect people from dog attacks only.

I healed Nero Cain n1 and that's how i know he wasn't killed by dogs.

I healed kdowns n2 and that's how, i think, we're missing a dog kill.

I've been crumbing this literally FOREVER.

See you again in another game after i die tonight, i tried my best but my results were only bad reads and 4 votes ln d3. Please carry me.

P.S. i still think pooky is scum

[Farkran]

oh i'm sorry i really wasn't trying to make you claim, i just really like snake symbolism because i'm writing something with a lot of snake mythology in it so i was just listing all of the things.

Oh it's not your fault at all, at this point i had pretty much said it myself and seeing how my voters cannot be all scum i think it's less damaging if i just let everyone know

[Farkran]

I am rikki tikki tavi

[Farkran]

I think it's from a book by Kipling

[Farkran]

I am rikki tikki tavi

rikki is the mongoose, not a snake.

Really? There is a snake in my picture lol

[Farkran]

I am rikki tikki tavi

Why does Rikki Tikki Tavi stop dogs?

I don't know, ask the mod postgame. It's the first time i have heard this character, in fact i assumed it was the snake and it made sense because snakes are a symbol of medicine

As for how i only protect from dog kills, i have no idea - in fact, i was a bit shocked that we haven't heard of any cat-only role when we had both a dog cop and a dog doctor. This was what made me believe that the cat faction must be somehow weaker than dogs in some way

[Farkran]

By the way town should stop being dense and look at the million times i've been crumbing that i am a doc

1. I said at least 5 times that nero cain wasn't killed by dogs, how was i supposed to know if i didn't heal him?
2. How do you think kdowns didn't die and we're missing exactly a dog kill today?

Just take a look at my iso with my role in mind, it's literally filled with crumbs that i am a protective power role.

[Farkran]

Pooky is pushing in bad faith, it's as easy as that.

[Farkran]

Fark, why does your role PM have a picture of a snake if your character is the mongoose? Did TSQ get it wrong?

The mongoose is also there but i assumed i was the snake because it takes more screen space in my picture

Also a snake doctor makes sense, a mongoose doctor not so much, it simply never occurred to me that rikki could be the other animal

[Farkran]

I guess i don't have much else to say for this day, if you have questions for me please use a @farkran tag so i can smart-skim through pages

My final readlist piece is this:

1. pooky pushed me in bad faith and he has never pushed cats in the first place, he only pushed dogs and town

2. I summarized my opinion on cat associatives in 4260

3. I have no idea about dog associatives, sorry

4. My other scumreads netting their scumfaction are probably Toadette, SS (mostly because of ivyeo though), maybe xofelf? Anya and flea are kinda null to me, everyone else is townlean or higher

[Farkran]

Checking in for today

For clarity: in my flavor picture there are both a mongoose and a snake. The snake is larger and it makes sense with my role, so i assumed rikki tikki tavi was the snake. Turned out it is the mongoose, but it was my mistake, not the mod's - although the mod could send me the picture that pooky posted in 4461 to avoid confusion, even if i don't think this would matter. I have crumbed my role many times over the three days, told you my results before claiming, and you can see by yourself they are consistent with what happened so far. This is what matters.

That being said, dogs will kill me no matter what, otherwise they will have to go in elo against mech-cleared people by kdowns. We also know they do not have a roleblocker, because kdowns was able to claim a result today, so i simply have to die tonight.

I don't get how my claim could be doubted when, if i were to be scum, i would likely be either the last of the dogs or the cats among 18 players. To believe i would get to elo and win, and using this as a base to push me today makes no sense. Even if i was a cat traitor, i would just have helped my faction lose earlier.

[Farkran]

To conclude, i want to reiterate that i don't think pooky believed his push against me even before my claim, and that

he has never pushed any cat

, he only pushed dogs and town.

[Farkran]

Ok so we have a bunch of people who don't want to vote titus and a bunch who don't want to vote pooky

Why?

I'll start: i don't think it's the correct day to lim titus, she can produce more results and die later. There are reasons to scumread her, but the risk isn't a good deal. Worst case scenario we have 4 bad guys left to deal with (1 dog, 2 cats, 1 third party), we won't reach elo for three more days at least and that is assuming only town dies from now on.

[Farkran]

Ok so we have a bunch of people who don't want to vote titus and a bunch who don't want to vote pooky

Why?

Because society is

probably

not a hivemind

Yeah sure

But why do you not want to vote pooky?

[Farkran]

If I were to give you the choice between pizza and icecream, would I be fair in deciding that you don't like the one you didn't choose?

Could you simply give a straight answer to my question? Do you think pooky is town, or is he scummy but titus is scummier?

[Farkran]

last minute readlist:

TOWN
Kdowns
Chara
Shiro
STD
Murdercat
UC Voyager

COULD BE SCUM (top is townier, bottom is scummier)
xofelf
Braveheart
Raya
Flow Trap
Anya
Toadette
Sircakez

SCUM
Pooky
SS
Flea

[Farkran]

gg rats

I found this game super fun while i was alive, so thanks for modding and inviting me here!

The cat pt is also the lols :> for future reference, know that my d1 reads are complete, utter, meaningless trash in all games as either alignment, lol.

Final outcome was also amazing because the rats were actually never ever noticed by anyone until they endgamed and won, wow. I think if you run this same setup 100 more times it won't happen again even once.

My 2 cents on the setup: fun, probably close to balanced, maybe a bit too many red herrings (dog miller, alien cop and a hidden un-hinted third scum faction) for a multiball where identifying scum is already hard enough. This is nowhere near an excuse for falling into apathy, that entirely falls on the players and never on the setup, but i do agree with SS that more town effort would probably not lead to significantly better results given the circumstances.

TLDR: Very enjoyable to play and potentially balanced winrate statistics, too little agency for the town