Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[LlamaFluff]

I guess summarized in a way people seem to more like it:

Town - Ana, RM
Lean Town - Kers
Null - TBone, Bingle
Lean Scum - Klick
Scum - Vex, Bambi

[Bambi Jay]

So you put both the other VTs as scum?

[Vex Vience]

sort me and bambi then, why don’t you? i know you gave reasoning, but i havent read it since work

[Bambi Jay]

Well on the last page bottom he put me above you so there's that.

It's just literally one of us has to be good from his perspective. Or both if he's evil.

[LlamaFluff]

Well im working that out, probably going to be a Vex vote as to a certain extent hesitancy (decent part of Bambi-scum read) can be a playstyle tell but I need to go back and read again. Would have definently preferred it if either of you did something I could call town though.

[Bambi Jay]

I claimed VT. That's pretty townie.

[LlamaFluff]

I claimed VT. That's pretty townie.

Lets try this question (actually if everyone can answer it I would appreciate)...

Why do you think there are wagons on both sides of the Kers/Bingle wagon and the TBone/Klick wagon? Is this any sort of a tell for the people voting or impact your opinion on those two slots?

Because its really bothering me and im trying to figure out why.

[LlamaFluff]

For lack of a better word its inefficient and maybe an excuse to avoid voting town who does get picked off.

Like if you want Player A who is a lover with Player B dead... Player B has two votes and A has none... why vote A?

[Bambi Jay]

Plus this game and last I have said I preferred solving the Pairs first but last time you complained about your vote and opinion not mattering then. So I didn't wanna upset you or others.

Will answer other question when I sit down.

[LlamaFluff]

Its more of a matter of no need to intentionally force yourself into a certain hole. I dont care who I see as best pick as scum, that is who is getting my vote. VT or Lover claim. We need scum on both sides dead.

[Kerset]

sort me and bambi then, why don’t you? i know you gave reasoning, but i havent read it since work

Its annoying that my two strongest scum reads are not in different pools. Feel very confident though that its exactly one of "Vex or Kers/Bingle" though. Will try and get a little more situated over the weekend (full catchup probably Sunday after getting shot #2) but im heavily leaning to a Vex vote right now.

[Bambi Jay]

For lack of a better word its inefficient and maybe an excuse to avoid voting town who does get picked off.

Like if you want Player A who is a lover with Player B dead... Player B has two votes and A has none... why vote A?

Who's this referring too first of all?

I claimed VT. That's pretty townie.

Lets try this question (actually if everyone can answer it I would appreciate)...

Why do you think there are wagons on both sides of the Kers/Bingle wagon and the TBone/Klick wagon? Is this any sort of a tell for the people voting or impact your opinion on those two slots?

Because its really bothering me and im trying to figure out why.

well with lovers it doesn't matter who you vote to elim since they both die? When the time to kill comes the votes will consolidate on one. I guess rn we're voting who we think is the scummier one of the pair. It's too say their main problem is with that person in particular.

[Kerset]

Though rereading Tbone and Klick made me realize we got the same wavelength with them mostly.

Tbone and Klick are actually being proactive AND townie.

Quotes please

[T-Bone]

Kerset and Bingle because I really think Bingle slipped saying Mason Thread and in general is being far more AtE than last game.

This ignores everything scummy about Klick and Tbone as well as that Kerset is towntelling in later posts.

The mason thing is so dumb considering nearly everyone is backing Bingle in that convo LOL

[LlamaFluff]

For lack of a better word its inefficient and maybe an excuse to avoid voting town who does get picked off.

Like if you want Player A who is a lover with Player B dead... Player B has two votes and A has none... why vote A?

Who's this referring too first of all?

Anyone. Thats my confusion point. There seems to be a lot of people who are interested in two different pairs, but the votes arent at all consolidating and im not sure if its intentional or people dont actually realize what they are doing.

I claimed VT. That's pretty townie.

Lets try this question (actually if everyone can answer it I would appreciate)...

Why do you think there are wagons on both sides of the Kers/Bingle wagon and the TBone/Klick wagon? Is this any sort of a tell for the people voting or impact your opinion on those two slots?

Because its really bothering me and im trying to figure out why.

well with lovers it doesn't matter who you vote to elim since they both die? When the time to kill comes the votes will consolidate on one. I guess rn we're voting who we think is the scummier one of the pair. It's too say their main problem is with that person in particular.

Again... thats the confusing part. Lets say I think Player A is scum with no votes, but player B is their lover at at E-2.... im voting Player B. Essentially im looking at each lover pair as a hydra where both heads post. Just vote whoever has more votes. Wondering why people are not doing that, again it seems inefficient or being afraid to be called scum for doing so. For instance if I was going to vote one of Kers/Bingle, I would just look for who had the most votes, not which of the two I saw as more likely scum as they are guaranteed to share an alignment.

[RationalMadman]

Its more of a matter of no need to intentionally force yourself into a certain hole. I dont care who I see as best pick as scum, that is who is getting my vote. VT or Lover claim. We need scum on both sides dead.

I actually prefer vanilla unless I have a

very strong

scumread in lovers, which last game I thought I did. The reason is that it's safer to lose 1 Townie as a voice and vote than 2, think about the butterfly effect of the loss on the next day phase for Town. This is something I told Bingle in our chat that I think I didn't mention in last game's public description of our thread, I also said it's safer as a lover even more so because a miselimination is devastating and basically coinflips your victory (actually it's worse if you were the one pushing on the wrong elimination). Bingle did agree to that but said I only think that because I was a lover (I say 'was' of course it was 'am' in that situation).

In reality, I'd think this even as a vanilla and unfortunately, last game didn't get me to stay true to that ethos in practise because I was under extreme pressure from the get-go and scumread Vex and Bambi very strongly.

I also don't understand your question about the bandwagons, seems like stating the obvious to me. It's a primary reason I'm against rushing this vote-off since if it goes wrong we have absolutely no reads in the vanillas (or we didn't, now we're beginning to).

That being said, I scumread Bambi over you at this point. I am confused about the bandwagons as well, it makes no sense to be splitting votes inside a lover pair.

[T-Bone]

You're scumreading me for not having talked reads in the pt. You're townreading TBone for not having talked reads in the pt but for having shut down an offtopic conversation because clearly he wanted to talk about game relevant topics in the limited time he had, despite Klick's summation showing literally 0 desire on his part to, y'know, talk about reads in the PT.

I'm quoting this from Bingle because I agree with Bingle that this is literally the dumbest thing to base a read off of.

Let me clear the air, I shut down an off topic conversation cause I didn't feel like putting in the effort for another response, not because I wanted to talk game stuff. There was no game stuff to talk beyond acknowledging how right I was in game 1 (which I did).

The idea that the lovers would talk about reads pre-game is dumb because there is literally nothing to base reads on since the game hasn't started.

[T-Bone]

So if you're scumreading Bingle and townreading me based on that nonsense.... maybe you're giving a fake read, bruh.

[Bambi Jay]

It's a principal vote my dude. It doesn't have to make sense. We just vote the scummiest guy not regarding the pairing.

Besides, maybe it's just me, but I don't want the game going super quick getting to E1 yet.

[RationalMadman]

Kerset and Bingle because I really think Bingle slipped saying Mason Thread and in general is being far more AtE than last game.

This ignores everything scummy about Klick and Tbone as well as that Kerset is towntelling in later posts.

The mason thing is so dumb considering nearly everyone is backing Bingle in that convo LOL

Everyone backing him has no impact on something being a slip or not. If everyone thinks a flower is a bicycle and my victory chance is increased by pointing out that it's actually a flower, I will do so. If everyone still ignores what I point out and allows the 'tell' or 'slip' to become negated, I will accept that too.

I even accept that the error could be made as either alignment, however I don't like how Bingle denies it was a mistake nor has Bingle replied to me explaining why he never ever called it a mason thread before in this or last game until that point.

[T-Bone]

Scum - Vex, Bambi

[T-Bone]

Kerset and Bingle because I really think Bingle slipped saying Mason Thread and in general is being far more AtE than last game.

This ignores everything scummy about Klick and Tbone as well as that Kerset is towntelling in later posts.

The mason thing is so dumb considering nearly everyone is backing Bingle in that convo LOL

Everyone backing him has no impact on something being a slip or not. If everyone thinks a flower is a bicycle and my victory chance is increased by pointing out that it's actually a flower, I will do so. If everyone still ignores what I point out and allows the 'tell' or 'slip' to become negated, I will accept that too.

I even accept that the error could be made as either alignment, however I don't like how Bingle denies it was a mistake nor has Bingle replied to me explaining why he never ever called it a mason thread before in this or last game until that point.

Because........

Its

Not

A

Mistake

[T-Bone]

The dishonesty towards Bingle is actively making him look town, and to this point, I thought his pair was the scum pair.

[Bambi Jay]

Rational literally can't comprehend figures of speech or jokes Tbone. That's an irrational idea.

[RationalMadman]

Kerset and Bingle because I really think Bingle slipped saying Mason Thread and in general is being far more AtE than last game.

This ignores everything scummy about Klick and Tbone as well as that Kerset is towntelling in later posts.

The mason thing is so dumb considering nearly everyone is backing Bingle in that convo LOL

Everyone backing him has no impact on something being a slip or not. If everyone thinks a flower is a bicycle and my victory chance is increased by pointing out that it's actually a flower, I will do so. If everyone still ignores what I point out and allows the 'tell' or 'slip' to become negated, I will accept that too.

I even accept that the error could be made as either alignment, however I don't like how Bingle denies it was a mistake nor has Bingle replied to me explaining why he never ever called it a mason thread before in this or last game until that point.

Because........

Its

Not

A

Mistake

Why has he not called it a mason thread at all until that point?