DEFCON Mafia 5.0: GAME OVER - NEW AMERICA FORMED

[The Church of Skitter]

If Koto is going to stay consistent with his level of activity I do not care if he is alive or dead to be quite honest.

[DeasVail]

If Koto is going to stay consistent with his level of activity I do not care if he is alive or dead to be quite honest.

Yeah I think this is the issue.

As much as I am slightly towards the LlamaFluff end of the spectrum when it comes to my opinion of town vigs, sometimes having a slot no longer there as a distraction is okay.

[Equinox]

It's midnight and I want to go to bed, so I'm going to shoot from the hip and look at vote counts sometime tomorrow. From a quick sort, acknowledging that my reading of this game has been piecemeal:

DeathNote - I'm going to trust xRECKONERx on this one and say that DeathNote is town, but that's moot now.
gorilla - Town.
innocentvillager - I'm of the opinion that Mognet would not have been that aggressive about saving mastina at that point in the game, so this slot is likely town. I'm reserving judgment on whether or not this nuke should be recalled because I'm more interested in what Nexus does.
Koto - As much as I hate to bring outside influences into this, I strongly doubt Merlot would have replaced out in the circumstance that she did if she were scum. The frustration with my slot would not have been the same.

Bell - People who I think are town are really sold on this slot being town, so I'll buy that even though I have no idea who Bell is. Sorry, Bell.
Cephrir - Town, probably? Gut read.
joqiza - Seems proactively town.
T3 - On the one hand, I didn't like T3's play and told xRECKONERx that there was a decent chance that I had a problem with T3's play style (which would be NAI). On the other hand, I'm still trying to puzzle out how scum handled the draft and I have baseline suspicion of everyone claiming (or having confirmed) troop drafts. On the other other hand, eh, that Fail Safe claim's okay maybe?
Vaxkiller - Literally the only reason I have Vaxkiller as maybe town is that I think the combination of mastina and Vaxkiller on the same team would've resulted in a scum team doing better than Eavesdropper and Fallout Shelter, since both have played DEFCON before. Vaxkiller's reads seem topsy-turvy to me, especially when they're presented so confidently after VFP flipped.

DeasVail - No idea.
Nexus - I had a gut read of town on Day 1, but I'm running low on people who I don't read as town so "good enough for Day 1" is no longer good enough.
samantha97 - samantha97 gunning to vote against total war was ballsy, and my thinking earlier in the game was that samantha97 trying to do it to deny scum kills when the reality was that delaying total war granted scum a Night kill (and terrorist two Night kills, but I'm not hunting SK for now) made samantha97 more likely to be town than scum. It's a weird mistake to make as scum and I don't think scum would've deliberately done that. On the other hand, like with Vaxkiller, samantha97's reads seem upside-down to me, and samantha97 doesn't have the benefit of having played DEFCON before (i.e. I'm still running with the hypothesis that scum, apart from mastina, are relatively inexperienced with DEFCON).
Save The Dragons - No idea.
The Church of Skitter - No idea.
Titus - I felt I was on the same wavelength as Titus during the thing with Mognet, but I never sorted out if that was alignment-indicative or just that we happened to be similarly frustrated.
Toogeloo - Even less of an idea than any of the other three about whom I don't have an idea.

marry - I remember being okay with letting marry live for some reason earlier in the game, but I'm liking this slot less and less.
Robert M Hunter - Ugh. Ugggghhhhh. I'd throw down a vote here if it weren't for the risk of the elimination threshold suddenly dropping due to nukes, so consider this as where I'd park my vote. Grabbing Counterintelligence to keep it away from scum is one thing; someone said earlier that the problem isn't that he took Counterintelligence but that he's done practically nothing else.

So, that's where I'm at. I don't like that I don't have any actual scum reads -- even though my ego swelled like a balloon after VFP flipped -- or that they're on relatively easy targets, so I feel like I'm missing something big. Alternatively, since my level of fucks is fairly low, I could just do something about PoE and let thermonuclear war sort it out.

[The Church of Skitter]

[The Church of Skitter]

oh your robert read makes sense

my problem with it is like well, he seems, honest? I've encountered a lot of players who have been like "Why bother even trying if I'm just going to get scumread" It's a concern that more inexperienced players have? Him saying that he literally decided to just take counterintelligence and die like, there has to be a reason for it. To me he comes across as more inexperienced. Is it still bad behavior? Fuck ya.

I believe townreading Robert is encouraging this behavior.
I think Robert needs to learn to just play the game normally and not worry about getting scumread.
I want to townread Robert and encourage this behavoir.

And I'm not exactly sure how to go about that?

[The Church of Skitter]

Not encourage this behavoir*

sorry

[The Church of Skitter]

An idea just came to be but this is is stoned ali so I don't know how good this is.

I think we should leave Robert alone.
If we want to, actually read this player, then I feel like the pressure of losing the game will eventually break him and make force him to play the game and post readable content.

I think this is correct, but I'm not 100% sure on it being correct.
It's based on the logic that he believes that his death will have no impact on the game. That's why he sees him dying as him getting what he wants.

In the late game if he is scum and genuinely think that this playstyle will coast him to victory, late game is going to come and he is going to be exposed in the late game. He's not someone who can win F3 unless he puts in an actual effort.

If he's town then if he wants to win in F3 he's going to have to actually, work a tiny bit, for it, or at least by the time we get here, the movements he has made would have made logical sense to come from scum.

Basically I think if it's resolve itself as the game gets smaller and it becomes more important to actually give a fuck.

Not sure how good this is or if this is any good at all or if it's just straight up bad (I also just realized I'm defending the guy who has counterintelligence so on the basis of that alone I should just be okay with this guy dying)

Because I don't want to encourage this behavior and I don't feel okay townreading it if it'll mean that he's can just go do this in his next game. Because the guy obviously needs to just learn how to play the game.

[The Church of Skitter]

or I'm getting trolled (now that I think about it toogeloo said he was a troll or something) kekw

[Nexus]

I'm going to need some hardcore convincing to not instantly turn Mognet into a radioactive crater at the earliest opportunity.

Then do it.

If I die for defending a good friend of mine so be it.

I would do it again and again and again.

This btw is defense Titus.

I feel it is defending Mastina’s character here.

We have 80+ pages of content.

RVS is done. We need to progress.

Reading the thread will help we have a scum flip.

You are pushing me though. You’re pushing me to give you free reign to do whatever you want carte Blanche despite scummy behavior because it’s Mother’s Day. Not gonna happen.

I did not discard the meta, I used it but I reached an incorrect conclusion which I can improve from.

I did not miss it, Nexus was frustrated. Pure and simple. It’s NAI.

I am listening. I am waiting for you to answer my fucking questions instead of attacking my play.

If it becomes clear you won’t actually attempt to have reasoning for what you’re doing I have faith when more players come on they can and will elim and wagon you.

I would much rather get the scum you don’t want wagoned but I will take you if I have to compromise.

Why do you want Nexus. You have no reasoning in your ISO.
If wanting you to provide reasoning is why I get elimmed you’re next.
I said you pushed me to let you do as you want and to let you be scummy as fuck because Mother’s Day. I already explained that. Stop bringing up points I already addressed.
I saw your evidence and came to the wrong conclusion. Part of being a moogle.
Yes I am getting in the way of a second day of elims without reason and a popularity contest.
Moogles don’t win those.

I am not playing hero I just want you to provide reasoning.
This town is not solid or weak. We have no idea because we’ve had no wagons.
If I die to make you give reasons for reads so fucking be it.

What is the point of these quotes?

I don't think this is a particularly town set of quotes - it feels quite AtE to me.

[Nexus]

Equi, do you want the nuke recalled?

[Nexus]

The game seems pretty split on whether or not I should recall it.

[Nexus]

You've got 12 hours to make a compelling case for Mognet's slot being town because all I see is a lot of crying about mastina and general waffle and annoying posts, and iv has not done anything to endear themself to me.

[Nexus]

Recalling a nuke is such a baby move. Do you really think the game will be better off keeping iv alive?

Also, the guy who had the failsafe is probably the terrorist no?

[DeasVail]

At this point I would prefer that IV we’re not nukes but it’s your nuke Nexus, your choice.

[Nexus]

but why

[DeasVail]

IV has been pleasant and vaguely towny and while I agree that isn’t particularly cause for a townread, I still believe that much of mognet’s posting is unlikely to come from scum. Particularly the stuff around Mastina and the degree of... pissing everyone off? It kind of goes against what I would expect from scum

[Vaxkiller]

I think ur sleeping on Vaxkiller I'm not happy with his IV read it feels like he stopped trying to read the slot a long time ago

If you scum read 2 people in that slot how would you feel? Yea I have stopped reading that slot, it's done too much wrong, and I want it sorted out.

[T3]

Fail Safe was my second choice, after sub.
Should everyone with a silo just nuke me and then recall. Because we don't risk any prs dying later in the game and scum with silos wuldn't be able to hide.

[joqiza]

You've got 12 hours to make a compelling case for Mognet's slot being town because all I see is a lot of crying about mastina and general waffle and annoying posts, and iv has not done anything to endear themself to me.

What exactly do you think was scum!Mognet's plan here? Do you think he rolls into the game, opens his role PM to see Covert Ops, and then decides "you know what? I'm going to try to antagonize as many players as the table as I can. Because this game isn't hard enough with just my shit role."

The posts I linked show that he's well aware of how the path he was on was gonna end: with a nuke to the face. He stated multiple times he was willing to die--I think he even wanted it tbh.

[T3]

Recalling a nuke is such a baby move. Do you really think the game will be better off keeping iv alive?

Also, the guy who had the failsafe is probably the terrorist no?

"the guy who had the failsafe"
I gain nothing by volunteering to be nuked by every player in the game.

[T3]

Fail Safe was my second choice, after sub.
Should everyone with a silo just nuke me and then recall. Because we don't risk any prs dying later in the game and scum with silos wuldn't be able to hide.

The n we lim everyone who has a silo and doesn't want too. PR massclaim and from there we have a good chance at winning.

[T3]

That way half the game basically suicides. There's a good chance at least one scum wil be in there. If anyone claims to havein ABM mode then we lim.

[joqiza]

T3 tbh I don't really get the motivation behind choosing Fail Safe. Like it just seems like a silo but worse. With a silo you have the option to nuke ppl back if you want to, but you get to like.. you know, choose. I guess fail safe let's you nuke someone if you get nightkilled but did you really expect to get nightkilled.

[Vaxkiller]

T3 is bleeding town here

[Vaxkiller]

T3 tbh I don't really get the motivation behind choosing Fail Safe. Like it just seems like a silo but worse. With a silo you have the option to nuke ppl back if you want to, but you get to like.. you know, choose. I guess fail safe let's you nuke someone if you get nightkilled but did you really expect to get nightkilled.

You really think it's scum motivation?