Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress - Game Over

[absinthe]

Caring less?

[Lukewarm]

[quote="In post 2006, catboi"][/quote]
There is a lot to think about here... I am retractinb my catboi solve answer and gonna have another think

[Something_Smart]

Uh, I meant Gate, not Keep, lol.

[absinthe]

I figured, but I don't understand why you're caring less?

[Something_Smart]

Because if the Wall is flipping before the Gate, then my opinion shouldn't be taken into consideration there, and as a result I could say whatever I wanted as scum so it won't help read me.

[Lukewarm]

I don't think you've actually seen me in a XYLO as town but this is very close to my behavior

?

I think that Dunn was pointing out a potential slip.

This game should exactly be his behavior in a XYLO as town, not close to it. To which unwnd responded

I say very close because I have thrown my own dignified behavior for exhaustive and continual presence

Call it impulsive lol

[absinthe]

Because if the Wall is flipping before the Gate, then my opinion shouldn't be taken into consideration there, and as a result I could say whatever I wanted as scum so it won't help read me.

If town loses at the Wall then the game is over.

[Something_Smart]

Sure, but there's nothing I can do about that.

[absinthe]

I don't think you've actually seen me in a XYLO as town but this is very close to my behavior

?

I think that Dunn was pointing out a potential slip.

This game should exactly be his behavior in a XYLO as town, not close to it. To which unwnd responded

I say very close because I have thrown my own dignified behavior for exhaustive and continual presence

Call it impulsive lol

I don't think meta works that way.

[unwnd]

Because if the Wall is flipping before the Gate, then my opinion shouldn't be taken into consideration there, and as a result I could say whatever I wanted as scum so it won't help read me.

Catboi has written some real compelling shit but we still have time. I find your gameplay really hard to approach and I wish you didn't just shove your hand in my face. Listen: I get why you're coming from and I get why you shouldn't care. We're all here though and these XYLOs aren't being played out in a separate PT. It does matter if I'm reading you wrong because I am a selfish motherfucker one and two, it feeds into my own desire to win. I want to believe Absin will take in account what I say afterwards. Regardless, I don't wanna confbias you and then miss something crucial that could've potentially have been hashed out

[absinthe]

Sure, but there's nothing I can do about that.

Part of me wants to shrug and say...ok?

But I'm still trying to figure you and catboi out, so.

Mostly my reads are based on how people process the gamestate, take and change stances, react to new data, etc.

A lot of the usual data channels in this game are shut down due to the mechanics.

But, solving efforts in both minigames both help you show your alignment and potentially bring stuff to light that would otherwise be missed regarding the Wall players.

[Something_Smart]

Maybe. Fat lot of good they've done so far.

[catboi]

Who do you lean when it comes to Catboi/S_S and why

I currently think it is catboi. I thought I mentioned it in my post on Dunn, but maybe I forgot. I plan on making a case when I get some proper time to work on it.

god

[catboi]

I'm glad we didn't end up in the same spot because I cannot deal with you misreading me again

[Lukewarm]

I'm glad we didn't end up in the same spot because I cannot deal with you misreading me again

I've walked it back.

I think my main issue is that I don't see SS and Dunn as partners. So if my solve in the Wall is Dunn, then that makes you the scum in the keep... Plus I typed that before I read your recent long post.

[catboi]

Catboi is moving into the "if scum I'm gonna cry" zone.

what exactly is difficult for scum to fake in that post

70% of it is literally just recapping what happened
20% of it is saying stuff does or doesn't look like a partner interaction with zero explanation
10% of it is based on Ydrasse meta which is the only actual analysis there but that's so easy to fake

or is it just, you would feel bad voting against someone who's put in so much effort?

This is a poor attempt at minimization. Yes, I have to summarize what I'm talking about as part of my analysis. That's necessary for the sake of other people knowing what I'm talking about. However, I'm also presenting the data as part of the solving process for the keep so people can look at it themselves and draw their own conclusions. Regardless "zero explanation" is a complete load of shit and you know it. Further, just saying it's "easy to fake" is avoiding actually disputing anything I'm claiming in my analysis.

[catboi]

I'm glad we didn't end up in the same spot because I cannot deal with you misreading me again

I've walked it back.

I think my main issue is that I don't see SS and Dunn as partners. So if my solve in the Wall is Dunn, then that makes you the scum in the keep... Plus I typed that before I read your recent long post.

Why do you see them as unaligned, again? I know you made a post about that but it hasn't stuck in my memory. I didn't find strong associatives between something_smart and any of you at the start of the phase, if I recall correctly.

[catboi]

Checked again, there were some vague hints of something_smart and unwnd being partnery but not much else, no anti-alignments that I was able to spot.

[Lukewarm]

Checked again, there were some vague hints of something_smart and unwnd being partnery but not much else, no anti-alignments that I was able to spot.

It is mostly end of Day 1 stuff.

Spoiler:

So are we trying to avoid doubling scum up at the Gate? Because that gives them a lot of choices for who the IC is?

If so, then I think I'd like Infinity at the Wall.

VOTE: Wall

If they are scum partners SS risked losing the Keep by suggesting Infinity go to the Wall. If infinity saw that, and placed herself there, then the scum team of [ss,dunn,brair] could not swap at the keep, so Briar.Ana,Absinthe would have all stayed, and blown everyone's mind, and ruined their almost guaranteed win at the Keep.

This does not stop either one of them from being scum independently, but it makes it hard for me to see them as both being partnered with Briar.

Spoiler:

scum!SS could be avoiding the wall, and not really care which of Dunn/Infinity go to the wall, which would be partnered with Unwnd
Or scum!Dunn could see town!ss suggesting Infnity go to the wall, and needed to prevent that, which would be partnered with you.

Gun to my head, I made the choice right now, I think I would vote the scum team as Unwnd;S_S, but Absinthe has made me question my read on unwnd.... And if it is not Unwnd, then it is Dunn. And I don't see dunn as partners with SS+Briar

So this is my real stance:

I think the partners are either [unwnd+S_S] or they are [dunn+catboi]. If I had to choose, I would go for [unwnd+S+S], but if absinthe gives unwnd a TR, then I would swap the whole pair.

[Something_Smart]

I find it fascinating that people are dwelling so heavily on my suggestion that Infinity go to the Wall. Perhaps not wrongly, but I do feel like people are blowing it out of proportion when it was just a mild scumlean.

And, Infinity scumread me too, so it's not as if she was jumping to listen to me.

Still, it's something concrete that I did commit to, and I guess it's noteworthy that I'm the only one of the slots in contention that made a suggestion like that? Or at least I'm the only one that made a suggestion that's getting talked about.

[catboi]

I mean, that suggestion was placed 10 minutes before Dunn hammered the wall, and Infinity was nowhere in sight. I don't see how that makes them independent. You could argue him saying that was what spurred Dunn on but it's not like that'd be hard to stage.

At least give my analysis a look?

[unwnd]

Lukewarm, I don't think you should put the cart before the horse. I'm town here and I don't know how many times I need to say that.

You just got out of a game where I won as scum, does it feel the same? Mind you I am capable of switching things up, but there is simply not a 'oh oops sorry unwnd' in this life.

[absinthe]

I'm scumreading Dunn and S_S.

It's not a teamsolve. I guess I need to think on that.

[unwnd]

If they are scum partners SS risked losing the Keep by suggesting Infinity go to the Wall. If infinity saw that, and placed herself there, then the scum team of [ss,dunn,brair] could not swap at the keep, so Briar.Ana,Absinthe would have all stayed, and blown everyone's mind, and ruined their almost guaranteed win at the Keep.

This does not stop either one of them from being scum independently, but it makes it hard for me to see them as both being partnered with Briar:

I don't see how this concludes anything. Also this is wrong, given the Keep was lost

no matter who was in it.

I think the fact Absin/Infinity

were

swapped means we can literally ignore the way scum were treating the Keep once Briar had Ana pocketed. That's their only move covered besides the fact they needed to make someone IC at the Gate. This tells me personally two things

1) They made absin IC because clearing S_S was either impossible (cause red) or because it ruined the direction Ana was making (SS/Unwnd/Infinity) team
2) Scum did not want to make sudden movements, knowing that town would look out for other swaps

I don't know if you were paying attention but

scum could be in the same minigame at the end of D1.

This didn't happen though, and it didn't because they already secured a free win in Keep! They had no fucking reason to WIFOM.

scum!SS could be avoiding the wall, and not really care which of Dunn/Infinity go to the wall, which would be partnered with Unwnd
Or scum!Dunn could see town!ss suggesting Infnity go to the wall, and needed to prevent that, which would be partnered with you.

Let me tell you the issue I think I noticed in both this game and the one prior. You are far into theorycrafting instead of educated guesses. I think this speaks more to your inexperience of the game, which is natural. Could Scum!SS avoid the wall? Maybe? My question to you is why would Scum!SS avoid the wall. When I try to find that reason, you just follow-up with 'or maybe Scum!Dunn could see town!ss suggesting infinity go the wall' and it's just like stop. How do these two theories match with another? Honest question. If you were not a newbie I would scumread you in a heartbeat.

And here's my own take on the situation so I'm not leaving you dry:

Scum!SS doesn't care where he ends so long as the day ends. The reason the day ended so fast after Keep locked in is because Briar did her job. I believe this entirely. Scum!Dunn sees Town!SS suggesting Infinity go to the wall, shrugs his shoulder, and votes Wall because of previous reason stated.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm, I don't think you should put the cart before the horse. I'm town here and I don't know how many times I need to say that.

You just got out of a game where I won as scum, does it feel the same? Mind you I am capable of switching things up, but there is simply not a 'oh oops sorry unwnd' in this life.

I am actually scum reading you for the things that feel the same lol. Last time, it left me confused. This time I was taking it as a scum sign for you.

Plus, I have almost gotten the feeling that before Day 2 started, you assumed you had this minigame in the bag, because you expected me to tunnel on Dunn the whole day, and then you got frustrated that I did not do that.


If you want me to be more confident in my read, then I am saying I think it is you. I only fell back to accusing Dunn in 1987 was because Absinthe made me second guess myself.

Absinthe, if you tell me to vote for Dunn, I will, but it will be under protest.