Mini Normal 2209: Musicals II [Endgame]

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: boxxy

[boxxy]

thats how t3 posts its not a scumtell

I said its an example of low effort posts, not explicilty a scumtell, but I'll tell what I'm not going to do:

1. Read a bunch of past games to see if that's actually how someone plays

2. Trust anybody saying "that's how so and so plays, trust me"

3. Continue arguing this point cause I think it's a distraction at this point.

Also sorry, what's "flipbait?"


Bloodhail reads town-ish for me. I disagree on playstyle and meta but that doesn't make him scum, yet.

lemons is such obvious scum jesus

Explain why and convince us and then we can lynch scum. Otherwise this is a worthless post.

[boxxy]

Also are we really going to just let N_M coast like this? I'm tempted to lynch him just to remove dead weight. Allowing such playstyle lets scum sleep, we get to Day 3 and its "well could be N_M but they haven't said jack shit so we can't get a read there."

[bloodhail]

the old term was l*nchbait but thats not supposed to be used anymore

[bloodhail]

and n_m is not gonna do anything which means you probably need to policy him at some point

fair warning though if anyone is put at E-1 he will hammer

[boxxy]

and n_m is not gonna do anything which means you probably need to policy him at some point

fair warning though if anyone is put at E-1 he will hammer

As town, or scum or both?

Do you think 150 was an attempt to hammer forgetting that he already voted or just more trollposting?

[ItalianoVD]

I know you’ll probably take my thoughts on this with a grain of salt but this is where I am...

or town who simply has faith that their genuine pursuit of the wincon will shine through before too long anyway?

Going back and forth on perception that is pointless. I was trying to get Lemons to understand me, if he scumreads that then there’s nothing I can do but move on and try to figure out the rest of the game. Take from that what you want but I’m not gonna waste time with the back and forth.

I asked you what you thought of them even though you didn’t have a grasp yet because those two aside from me had the most content in the game so if you were able to form a read from my content surely you could from theirs.

[bloodhail]

its very likely he saw the E-1 announcement and didnt realize he was already voting you since he wasnt paying attention to the game, yea

hed do it as either alignment but it might mean hes more likely to be scum here

[ItalianoVD]

hes not gonna post anything useful

He does post useful content when there is useful content to post.

[ItalianoVD]

Also are we really going to just let N_M coast like this? I'm tempted to lynch him just to remove dead weight. Allowing such playstyle lets scum sleep, we get to Day 3 and its "well could be N_M but they haven't said jack shit so we can't get a read there."

Yeah for now. Policy elims are stupid.

[boxxy]

Which also means that scum can comfortable let N_M take the fall by setting up a E-1 hammer and let him pull the trigger. Something to keep in mind.

hes not gonna post anything useful

He does post useful content when there is useful content to post.

You know how we get useful content? By generating it. Town can't just sit back and "observe" for scum, otherwise its just a quiet room waiting till night kill.

[boxxy]

I would rather make a mistake policy elim now, then be forced to make it where its lynch or lose.

[boxxy]

Vote stays where it is for now.

[ItalianoVD]

I would rather make a mistake policy elim now, then be forced to make it where its lynch or lose.

Spoken like true mafia.

[UNOwen]

I don't think policy executions are something that should be considered until the day is ready to end. N_M trolling is exactly what he did in my last game. Over the course of day 1 he eventually contributed enough relevant content to get a read, but I don't expect it to be possible to pressure him into doing so early.

Anya was also in that game so she should know this. Despite that her vote is currently sitting on the player least likely to provide meaningful content in response even though she claimed to want to provoke discussion, which is a major red flag.

[UNOwen]

Re Lemons: Effort =/= town. You can get scum who are willing to put in a lot of effort, and you can get town who are lazy. I do think Lemons is town though, not because they have long posts but because the almost rambling way they pushed their argument against Italiano is unlikely to come from scum. I buy that they sincerely thought their points were strong and would be convincing if explained properly. It's doubtful that would be easily faked, and I doubt even more that they'd expend energy trying to at the start of the game.

[UNOwen]

Italiano why are you voting boxxy?

[boxxy]

I'll take one last shot to explain what I mean by effort = town.

I do not mean that effort = towntell, and lazy = scumtell.

I mean that effort benefits town, regardless of its source, and lazy benefits scum, regardless of its source.

Scum who make meaningful contribution can end up helping town inadvertently by outing themselves, sacrificing their partner, or making mistakes we can catch them out on later.

Town who are lazy benefit scum by leaving themselves as unknowns, and allowing lazy scums to also slip under the radar.

It's less about somebody providing effort is necessarily town, but more so that somebody providing effort _benefits_ town, regardless of their alignment.

For that reason, with lack of anything else to go on, I will vote against anyone playing what I consider to be play with benefits scum.

[Not_Mafia]

I'll take one last shot to explain what I mean by effort = town.

I do not mean that effort = towntell, and lazy = scumtell.

I mean that effort benefits town, regardless of its source, and lazy benefits scum, regardless of its source.

Scum who make meaningful contribution can end up helping town inadvertently by outing themselves, sacrificing their partner, or making mistakes we can catch them out on later.

Town who are lazy benefit scum by leaving themselves as unknowns, and allowing lazy scums to also slip under the radar.

It's less about somebody providing effort is necessarily town, but more so that somebody providing effort _benefits_ town, regardless of their alignment.

For that reason, with lack of anything else to go on, I will vote against anyone playing what I consider to be play with benefits scum.

tl;dr

[InsidiousLemons]

140 feels town and makes me feel good about delibird. not sure if i've said so yet but i've been reading him as town

thats how t3 posts its not a scumtell

I said its an example of low effort posts, not explicilty a scumtell, but I'll tell what I'm not going to do:

1. Read a bunch of past games to see if that's actually how someone plays

do you disregard meta altogether? i'm kind of shocked that you said this so casually, as if it's obvious, considering that doing exactly what you're talking about is a huge part of the game

lemons is such obvious scum jesus

Explain why and convince us and then we can lynch scum.

i like this approach rather than the dismissal i so often see of bare reads

also i really don't think 150 was anything other than a reaction test

I would rather make a mistake policy elim now, then be forced to make it where its lynch or lose.

woah yeah okay this sucks and is unexpected

[InsidiousLemons]

165 is a good post and 167 is a good response to it

I'll take one last shot to explain what I mean by effort = town.

I do not mean that effort = towntell, and lazy = scumtell.

I mean that effort benefits town, regardless of its source, and lazy benefits scum, regardless of its source.

Scum who make meaningful contribution can end up helping town inadvertently by outing themselves, sacrificing their partner, or making mistakes we can catch them out on later.

Town who are lazy benefit scum by leaving themselves as unknowns, and allowing lazy scums to also slip under the radar.

It's less about somebody providing effort is necessarily town, but more so that somebody providing effort _benefits_ town, regardless of their alignment.

For that reason, with lack of anything else to go on, I will vote against anyone playing what I consider to be play with benefits scum.

tl;dr

it really is quite disappointing to play against someone who is so determined to do nothing but troll. do you genuinely believe you are playing to your wincon?

[InsidiousLemons]

putting boxxy into the town box now seems like an earnest toothbrusher

VOTE: NotMafia

can we get an explanation for this vote, Anya?

[InsidiousLemons]

@dannflor: vote count?

[boxxy]

140 feels town and makes me feel good about delibird. not sure if i've said so yet but i've been reading him as town

thats how t3 posts its not a scumtell

I said its an example of low effort posts, not explicilty a scumtell, but I'll tell what I'm not going to do:

1. Read a bunch of past games to see if that's actually how someone plays

do you disregard meta altogether? i'm kind of shocked that you said this so casually, as if it's obvious, considering that doing exactly what you're talking about is a huge part of the game

I don't disregard meta. I disregard people claiming meta without providing links/evidence.

If bloodhail wants to say "that's how T3 plays" he better back it up with examples. I'm not going to research other people's meta calls for them. By all means claim meta, but back it up if you want to convince others, don't just say "trust me this is how T3 plays."

[Anya]

I'm not really at all surprised, given my limited recollections of playing with Not_Mafia, but I

am

annoyed that, in a game this small, one player is essentially making themselves unavailable for reading. Always tempting to make that vote but I have no particular confidence that it'd actually get any more out of him.

@Anya

do you actually feel like your vote is doing anything useful?

yeah the person being voted must be terrified right now i'm a bad person