Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[T-Bone]

I mean quite simply if you were scum you'd know the exact role distribution of the game by the time Klick, Llama, and I were left to claim.

Actually untrue in hindsight if you're town, but I had literally the same thought process.

If Bambiscum/youtown, Bambi doesn't know which one of you/Klick/Llama is the VT and which is a lover. Bambi had the TMI specifically in the case that the team is you/Klick/Bambi.

But yeah, people (VV and Kers) told me I was tinfoiling the townread, so :shrug:.

Oh I see what you're saying. Makes total sense from a not-me perspective.

[T-Bone]

In #609, the post I qouted was from Vex, responding to Vex, about my read on Vex, and the quote you pulled was about Vex.

So...are you giving a fake read to justify your vote?

So I guess to everyone else. From my perspective it looks like RM is trying to work backwards from his vote/read to justify it. I gave RM several chances to fact check his read.

Am I wrong for thinking this feels fake? That this feels like scum working backwards from a fakeread and trying to find something to justify it?

[RationalMadman]

In #609, the post I qouted was from Vex, responding to Vex, about my read on Vex, and the quote you pulled was about Vex.

So...are you giving a fake read to justify your vote?

You are actually correct, this was a big error by me. I thought you had replied to Bambi for some reason.

I do not understand why you townread her though. Bambi has a very different vibe to last game.

I accept that I made a huge error and you were actually replying to Vex but I do not accept that I would intentionally make that kind of error as Scum just to frame you, that would be idiotic to the highest degree and I don't follow how you could think that I would do that.

I do admit that I just made a huge error but Vex's tone has been extremely similar to last game so I somehow assumed you were talking about Bambi and saw her reply above you and my brain fucked up in the middle of what I was reading.

I don't understand why you are not pushing on Bambi at all though and vice versa. In fact, Bambi hasn't pushed on any player with a good reason so far, especially when she pushed on me.

[RationalMadman]

I did not go back and read it, I knew exactly what I meant and didn't understand why you were asking me to clarify it.

[Kerset]

I like how everyone is either: arguing to determine the scum, declaring to be busy or being Bambi. Her uninterested approach in recent pages is such obv scum behavior.

[Kerset]

She is not even trying to hide lack of need to solve.

[T-Bone]

I appreciate you not doubling down for what its worth, would have just been a huge argument.

As to why I haven't pushed Bambi...its because I do honestly read her as town as she hasn't done anything that has made me question it.

As I just demonstrated with you...I will question things that catch my attention. You have over 100 posts and I have responded to maybe 6 of them? So if your barometer is 'player X isn't questioning player Y' up until the last page you fell in the category of someone I wasn't questioning.

[T-Bone]

I don't understand why you are not pushing on Bambi at all though and vice versa. In fact, Bambi hasn't pushed on any player with a good reason so far, especially when she pushed on me.

As for this...you're a bit biased. Bambi has pushed on people, you just don't agree. Which is fine, but understand that when you say this, I don't see it that way.

[yessiree]

VC 1.12

With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate

Kerset (3)

- Klick, T-Bone, Bambi Jay

T-Bone (2)

- Bingle, RationalMadman

Vex Vience (1)

- LlamaFluff

Bambi Jay (1)

- Kerset

Bingle (1)

- Vex Vience

Note Voting - Anastasia

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-05-23 22:00:00)

[LlamaFluff]

@llama - if me and bambi end up talking, i can probably sort them solely from that.

Given this, I think the real question Llama wants answered is why haven't you been trying to talk to Bambi in order to sort her?

because i simply haven’t had the motivation to actually try this game thus far, plus i work close to 40hrs/week and end up sleeping most of the day when I get home, so my time on the forums is limited

I get work can be a thing, but you have to see how this is unfair to me right? I pretty much have someone saying that if they wanted to they could solve the pair, but dont have the time so I get the vote. From my perspective I am either dealing with town who wont/cant game solve or scum who knows if they want/cant fake gamesolve that they have created reason to just target someone because they are "good as scum". Seems like a really simple thing for scum to come up with to just try and hope to back a wagon that otherwise they have no reason to push. Even if you arent lying about time issues, stalling/avoiding reads with limited time is a thing. Its the pure lack of doing anything to figure out Bambi that makes me think you are scum here.

@Kers/Ana - Do you back your lovers read of the other pair? Yes or no.

[RationalMadman]

Even if I am voted here for that, I want to say that Vex's vibe is

not

totally different to last game. Vex was extremely defensive, hostile and tunneling in the early part of this Day Phase. The only thing that's different is that since then, Vex seems more apathetic. That doesn't make sense to me as an accurate read and I believe that Tbone and Klick are the scum.

If Tbone thinks

Vex

is Scum of the Vanillas, does he read the situation of Vex vs Bingle as a bussing drama?

[T-Bone]

To be clear, RM, as a player I am hyper focused on me, so its not an accident I interact the most with people who question me/scumread me/etc more than the ones who don't.

And honest assessment, you might be the same way, hence feeling that Bambi's read and push on you isn't legitimate and so you've voiced it as such.

[T-Bone]

Even if I am voted here for that, I want to say that Vex's vibe is

not

totally different to last game. Vex was extremely defensive, hostile and tunneling in the early part of this Day Phase. The only thing that's different is that since then, Vex seems more apathetic. That doesn't make sense to me as an accurate read and I believe that Tbone and Klick are the scum.

If Tbone thinks

Vex

is Scum of the Vanillas, does he read the situation of Vex vs Bingle as a bussing drama?

I'd only vote you for the mistake if you had continued to double and triple down.

If I vote you, it won't be for this.

As for Vex, I disagree with your assessment. That's just what it is.

[Kerset]

by other pair do you specifically mean Ana/RM or both other pairs or his scumread Bone?

[LlamaFluff]

by other pair do you specifically mean Ana/RM or both other pairs or his scumread Bone?

You arent voting with your lover. Are they wrong?

[Bingle]

I'll ask you since Kerset refuses. When Kerset is repeating something they did as scum from the previous game, what am I supposed to think?

Why is Kerset trying to provoke additional content to help read people? I feel like that is pretty self explanatory. I also feel like thinking Klick/Bambi/VV/Ana are light on content is still reasonable and that thinking you were light on content when you two started this whole back and forth was reasonable.

Looking at the other thread, I also don't think Kerset is super similar, but I'm pretty biased in that I know there was an alignment change there.

[RationalMadman]

I'll ask you since Kerset refuses. When Kerset is repeating something they did as scum from the previous game, what am I supposed to think?

Why is Kerset trying to provoke additional content to help read people? I feel like that is pretty self explanatory. I also feel like thinking Klick/Bambi/VV/Ana are light on content is still reasonable and that thinking you were light on content when you two started this whole back and forth was reasonable.

Looking at the other thread, I also don't think Kerset is super similar, but I'm pretty biased in that I know there was an alignment change there.

If you had to put together the team, meaning you had to name and explain the Vanilla relative to the pair, who and why?

I read it as Bambi and have the same pair-read, obviously (the obvious part is both but more so that I scumread Tbone/Klick's pair).

The reason is that Tbone and Bambi seem to avoid clashing at all, Klick and Bambi (excluding Bambi's random vote) are doing the same.

This kind of mutual avoidance of grilling one another reads as scum partners to me.

[Kerset]

by other pair do you specifically mean Ana/RM or both other pairs or his scumread Bone?

You arent voting with your lover. Are they wrong?

in lover pool i would lean like he does but i am more confident in my vote in VT pool. We vote in different pools, so i don't see why would that my vote imply that he is wrong.

[T-Bone]

I'll ask you since Kerset refuses. When Kerset is repeating something they did as scum from the previous game, what am I supposed to think?

Why is Kerset trying to provoke additional content to help read people? I feel like that is pretty self explanatory. I also feel like thinking Klick/Bambi/VV/Ana are light on content is still reasonable and that thinking you were light on content when you two started this whole back and forth was reasonable.

Looking at the other thread, I also don't think Kerset is super similar, but I'm pretty biased in that I know there was an alignment change there.

I don't need you to give a read on Kerset, you know either way.

I didn't mean to say that I need you to answer for Kerset's play. Like regardless of alignment you know the truth.

I'm explaining what I'm seeing from my perspective cause that's the one I have and I try in general to be open about what I see. And as I explained before I see Kerset picking on activity again, something that scum!Kerset did last game. And I was trying to gauge whether this is something that Kerset does as scum, or is NAI. And from Kerset I didn't get an answer to that gauge.

And so I'm explaining why I think the way I think. And so I partly ask this as a rhetorical device...if I, me, T-Bone am seeing something I can provably associate something as a thing a player did while scum, what reasons are there for me to think this time is different? If scum!Kerset did X in game 1, and Kerset is still doing X in game 2, what evidence in game 2 should I be seeing that makes it NAI instead of scum?

[T-Bone]

I'm not asking you to answer for him. But if you two are actually the other town pair Bingle, then it's important to me that you understand where I'm coming from, because if I am wrong (which is your contention), then I can't begin to correct my read without some mutual understanding.

[RationalMadman]

Vex was extremely defensive, hostile and tunneling in the early part of this Day Phase.
The only thing that's different is that since then, Vex seems more apathetic.

If Tbone thinks

Vex

is Scum of the Vanillas, does he read the situation of Vex vs Bingle as a bussing drama?

As for Vex, I disagree with your assessment. That's just what it is.

Do you disagree to the lines I said or the first sentence's claim that their vibe isn't totally different?

If you agree to what I said but not to the vibe, why?

Also, please answer the bussing question. I don't think Bingle would have reacted as strongly as he did if it was just for a bus, I genuinely believe scum-Bingle = town-Vex, obviously both can be Town and scum-Vex can be present with town-Bingle, what is the team in your conclusion? At the moment I believe your stated read is Bingle/Kerset-pair + Vex

Also, if you do consider me scummier than Bingle, what makes your scumread on Kerset stronger? In the hypothetical that I am scum, who is my Goon out of the Vanilla claims and why?

I want to understand your thinking.

[Kerset]

I don't need you to give a read on Kerset, you know either way.

I didn't mean to say that I need you to answer for Kerset's play. Like regardless of alignment you know the truth.

I'm explaining what I'm seeing from my perspective cause that's the one I have and I try in general to be open about what I see. And as I explained before I see Kerset picking on activity again, something that scum!Kerset did last game. And I was trying to gauge whether this is something that Kerset does as scum, or is NAI. And from Kerset I didn't get an answer to that gauge.

And so I'm explaining why I think the way I think. And so I partly ask this as a rhetorical device...if I, me, T-Bone am seeing something I can provably associate something as a thing a player did while scum, what reasons are there for me to think this time is different? If scum!Kerset did X in game 1, and Kerset is still doing X in game 2, what evidence in game 2 should I be seeing that makes it NAI instead of scum?

I'm not asking you to answer for him. But if you two are actually the other town pair Bingle, then it's important to me that you understand where I'm coming from, because if I am wrong (which is your contention), then I can't begin to correct my read without some mutual understanding.

OMG AFTER LITANY OF 'WHY KERSET DOESNT ASNWER ME ;_; :_;" ONCE BINGLE ANSWERS FOR ME YOU RELPY WITH "I DONT WANT ANSWERS, I ONLY SHOW MY THOUGHTS"

[LlamaFluff]

@RM - Please list all the individual lover slots (not as pairs) as scummiest to most likely to be town.

[Vex Vience]

@llama if everyone/mostly everyone agrees you’re town, i’ll go along with it because it means it’s less effort for me, meaning the time i actually have free to read the game isn’t spent on other things

also, wrt time constraints, why would i lie about that to influence a game of mafia? yes this is my try-hard account, but i’m above trying to use things like that. not to mention i’m relatively certain i have actually mentioned on the site before my irl circumstances since it did lead to me siteflaking at several points. i will not answer anything further on this topic until post-game either, and i will likely only answer it in speakeasy, because i don’t want this to be publicly available unless i make it that.

[LlamaFluff]

Also one thing I missed

@Ana - How confident are you in my ability to play as town?