Mini Normal 2209: Musicals II [Endgame]

[Anya]

VOTE: T3

didn't you just steal that pineapple from me in the farmer's market

[Anya]

VOTE: boxxy

acussing people of fishing when they're not usually comes from oil rig captains

[T3]

VOTE: T3

didn't you just steal that pineapple from me in the farmer's market

Lol, I actually didn't seethat bit point still applies.
I think I played a game with you on MU about 3 years ago, your old pfp looks familliar.

[InsidiousLemons]

i said T3 plays how he plays and calling reads that are underexplained "fluff" is dumb. if you want more from him, just ask.

you mean like i did in 180, which he has still yet to respond to?

ok

do you think T3 is scummy for not answering you

no. T3 is an overall townlean atp

how is calling someone "flipbait" leaving the door open to deciding he's scum later? i'm unambiguously saying i think he's town who has eccentric opinions that were getting him scumread for not great reasons

flipbait to me carries connotations of trolling/playing in a way that seems scum but is actually just bad town play. when i say "discrediting boxxy", this is what i mean -- saying he isn't worth being listened to and attempting to diminish a likely-town voice. maybe there's been a shift in the public perception, but going with this interpretation certainly leaves room for deciding later that "hey, that bad town play? actually just scum play. guess i was being too lenient." i think i can believe that what you meant was genuinely what you're saying above, though. either way that door is closed now.

how does taking pressure off a player i have a townlean on being unhelpful to town. i am saying scumreads on T3 for having underexplained reads are likely ill-conceived. you are contorting yourself to make this attack

yet again i will remind you that

i am not and never have been scumreading T3

. seriously, what are you not getting about this? if you have a townread on a player then them being pressured is still a good thing, because it allows for them to a) reaffirm your townread on them by defending themself well, or b) make you reconsider by doing the opposite.

pressure in the sense they were facing was working toward a potential elimination and i openly disagreed with it. those players are the easiest players for scum to push because of their playstyle, and the goal of scum is to get town eliminated

T3 had precisely zero votes at the time you started defending him so this part is complete BS. boxxy i could see because he was getting a decent amount of heat, but other than calling him "flipbait" it didn't really look like you were defending him that hard.

i don't think we're going to get a ton out of continuing this back-and-forth, and frankly i'd rather see you continue to play and interact with other players rather than spending most of our energy fighting each other. the others can decide whether this push on you is worth pursuing as a group, and honestly it seems like the general consensus is not really.

[Not_Mafia]

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[InsidiousLemons]

i stand by me peering into lemon's soul and seeing lemon juices that are tainted red

it feels like the lemon's been left outside the fridge and gone off slightly compared to the fresh lemons i'm used to

VOTE: T3

didn't you just steal that pineapple from me in the farmer's market

this is kind of a curious juxtaposition. anya, what are you hoping to accomplish with this T3 vote? and why do you think your vote is better there rather than continuing to pressure me, if my "juices" (ew) are so red?

p-edit the cow returns! wanna give us some context for those reads?

[InsidiousLemons]

Also I’ve been reading a few of Anya’s games and she seems to be a little more all over the place when she’s town. This game has been kinda subdued. Like she usually votes for everybody and says a lot of things that seem scummy. Here she seems town. Anyone who has actually played with her notice this as well?

it's definitely not just you. she felt a bit more passive overall in the last game i played with her than in the games you quote a bit lower down, and she was scum in that one. however, she did do a lot of the vote-hopping kind of thing in the early days of that one as well. you may be onto something, but it's hard to tell on D1. have a look at our last game if you like (feat. scum!anya) and see if you agree:

Mini Normal 2205

[InsidiousLemons]

@Italiano - I was thinking the same about Anya, but her answers to my questions made sense and I ended up thinking I was in a bit of a tunnel. The play style difference might just be because she was replacing into our previous game, I don't really have a good comparison for early game behavior.

@Lemons - Updated read on boxxy?

still town. 260 doesn't bother me if that's what you're asking, and i can understand the mindset behind his earlier posts like 167 and 182.

[InsidiousLemons]

@italiano happy scumday and happy belated bday! don't think i remembered to wish you one on the day itself

[ItalianoVD]

Appreciate that @Lemons Good to have been here for a year! And the birthday was great! Shot some guns for the first time which was awesome, but I’m sure we can talk about that more post game.

I’m taking a look at 2205 now.

[ChannelDelibird]

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Having bloodhail and Lemons as one's top two scumreads seems like an ass-pull.

[boxxy]

Wasn't really much to talk about before there. The fastest way to get beyond RVS and get productive is to get content worth talking about. So yeah I talked about play style when it felt like we had 2-3 players who seemed unwilling to provide content. Sue me.

Italiano was legit suspicion, he's still on my minor scumlist, but rather than continue to park a vote there I figured it's more productive to try to generate more content. You're really zeroing in on that "for lack of anything else to go on." That was meant in a general sense, and in the context of the post means "for lack of anything else to go on, play that I consider to benefit scum warrants suspicion and voting."

I dunno your whole argument feels like "you didn't defend yourself strongly." The votes on me didn't warrant defense, there was not any content behind them to discuss IMO.

It's not about defending yourself, it's about your perspective. As in, if you're being voted with no explanation, isn't that worth asking about. You talked about T3, but didn't directly ask him a question until 247 even though he was voting you for in your view not a good reason. Same deal with Italiano, you suspected him but didn't try to get some reasoning out of him. I'll admit I'm assuming how you'd react here but I imagine that if N_M had responded to your pressure with a reads list with no justifications, you would have pushed for more.

Your case on me is reaching further with every post.

You talked about T3, but didn't directly ask him a question until 247 even though he was voting you for

in your view not a good reason.

I never claimed that. His vote on me wasn't terrible I'm sure my post looked like LHF to people, votes were on me and I brought up Not_Mafia. Nothing really for me to say about it.

Same deal with Italiano, you suspected him but didn't try to get some reasoning out of him.

Someone I thought was scum puts a vote on me that's already on me. I'm not sure what you expect me to ask him.

I'll admit I'm assuming how you'd react here

I too can build imaginary cases on people based on things they didn't actually do.

At this point I'm unsure if you're just so tunnelvisioned that you can't/won't comprehend my perspective, or your scum trying to set me up for the day 1 lynch.

In particular it looks like you're trying to bring others onto this case by asking Lemons what he thinks.

[boxxy]

Quick summary of my reads:

Town

Lemons
bloodhail


I honestly think these are two town with different opinions on playstyle/tells/strategy arguing against eachother.

Slight Town

CBD

CBDs latest posts are more informative. His early work felt empty, like scum trying to avoid being called out for sleeping. But I like the new stuff.

Neutral

T3

Pretty devoid of content. Calling me out for LHF was decent, but then ignoring my question in 247 and basically being unhelpful makes me weary.

Null

N_M

For obvious reasons

Slight Scum

Italiano

For Italiano, the mincing words about "if we're the same alignment" felt like a case of caught-for-the-wrong-reasons. It felt overly defensive of the word choice, almost deliberately not seeing the other POV.

More Scum

UNOwens
Anya

After skimming Anya's other games, her style is consistent, but it also feels a bit more "oh so random" here, similar to her scum play in 2205 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86324 as opposed to 2201 where her posts were a bit more informative viewtopic.php?t=86195&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

I admit I haven't read the games in question in immense detail yet.

For UNOwens I'm now reading scum because this case on me no longer feels honest. It's reaching and with trying to bring Lemons in, feels like scum trying to set up a day 1 lynch.

[ItalianoVD]

My goodness! 287 is the scummiest of all scum(reads) list I’ve seen in quite some time. What’s the difference between neutral and null? And why haven’t you ever voted for any of your “scumreads”?

VOTE: boxxy

[ItalianoVD]

If boxxy is scum then I think I’ll feel better about Anya. At this point I don’t know if I can see them being partners.

I really wanna see what you have to say about that post boxxy?

[boxxy]

What’s the difference between neutral and null?

Neutral: Some pro scum and pro town indicators, undecided where they fall.

Null: Dick all to go on.

And why haven’t you ever voted for any of your “scumreads”?

I've voted for you.

VOTE: UNOwen

happy?

Let's see your list.

[boxxy]

BTW that puts me at E-1 so I'm dead when N_M comes online, but I guess that's pretty convenient for scum like you

[boxxy]

Yoo legit though I think Italiano just scum slipped.

I don't think at this point in the game town puts someone at L-1 recklessly.


Especially someone who has said this in the past.

Also since Not_Mafia is playing the claim should be before the next person puts him at L-1.

But he claims he wants a reaction from me.

I really wanna see what you have to say about that post boxxy?

Doesn't ask for a claim, doesn't say he's decided and wants to execute, just wants a reaction.

If I get hammered and italiano just sleeps till tomorrow, don't trust him if he claims he just miscounted. I do not believe Italiano as town would make a mistake like that at this point.

He's using N_M for plausible deniability.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

Yep I'm happy here. You dun goofed scum

[Anya]

i can't believe this boxxy

i'm so patient with you hoping you'll find your own way without my assistance but you strike out at me every opportunity you get rejecting everything i've done for you

i still think you're town but it pains me to see you like this

[Anya]

are you actually on L1

[Anya]

Also I’ve been reading a few of Anya’s games and she seems to be a little more all over the place when she’s town. This game has been kinda subdued. Like she usually votes for everybody and says a lot of things that seem scummy. Here she seems town. Anyone who has actually played with her notice this as well?

it's definitely not just you. she felt a bit more passive overall in the last game i played with her than in the games you quote a bit lower down, and she was scum in that one. however, she did do a lot of the vote-hopping kind of thing in the early days of that one as well. you may be onto something, but it's hard to tell on D1. have a look at our last game if you like (feat. scum!anya) and see if you agree:

Mini Normal 2205

VOTE: Not Mafia
VOTE: Italiano
VOTE: channelbird
VOTE: bloodhail
VOTE: lemons

there you go am i town now

btw i totally would've used this as an excuse to "accidentally" bring the warhammer down on boxxy as wolf

[Anya]

i stand by me peering into lemon's soul and seeing lemon juices that are tainted red

it feels like the lemon's been left outside the fridge and gone off slightly compared to the fresh lemons i'm used to

VOTE: T3

didn't you just steal that pineapple from me in the farmer's market

this is kind of a curious juxtaposition. anya, what are you hoping to accomplish with this T3 vote? and why do you think your vote is better there rather than continuing to pressure me, if my "juices" (ew) are so red?

p-edit the cow returns! wanna give us some context for those reads?

what else other than a hydraulic press and a recording the aftermath

t4's response was reasonable

[InsidiousLemons]

Yoo legit though I think Italiano just scum slipped.

I don't think at this point in the game town puts someone at L-1 recklessly.


Especially someone who has said this in the past.

Also since Not_Mafia is playing the claim should be before the next person puts him at L-1.

But he claims he wants a reaction from me.

I really wanna see what you have to say about that post boxxy?

Doesn't ask for a claim, doesn't say he's decided and wants to execute, just wants a reaction.

If I get hammered and italiano just sleeps till tomorrow, don't trust him if he claims he just miscounted. I do not believe Italiano as town would make a mistake like that at this point.

He's using N_M for plausible deniability.

VOTE: ItalianoVD

Yep I'm happy here. You dun goofed scum

not_mafia's vote is already on you

[InsidiousLemons]

boxxy is indeed at L1 by my count though with Not_Mafia, T3, UNOwen and Italiano on the wagon

[Anya]

he's a misunderstood toothbrusher