Micro 1013: IMoA [game over!]

[Moongrass]

I still like the idea of an Andre Ico scum theatre team...but I know this is my bias for non-boring teams.
@Uneven what about those interactions makes Andre seem towny to you?

[Moongrass]

nsg to help me sanity check my town read of ta vera, could you shed some light on your town read there?

[northsidegal]

i don't townread ta vera incredibly strongly, i think it just so happens that a lot of my posting has been in defense of her. i do lean town on her though, so i'll try to compile some reasons.

[Moongrass]

Every time I engage with VFP I get town feelings but I'm like a needy girlfriend who thinks he's scum everytime he's away from me.

[UneveN]

@Uneven what about those interactions makes Andre seem towny to you?

I think mostly that they made sense and there was an order to the progression. Most town just do that because of how they process the game but mafia have to compile and it didn't feel compiled to me.

[Andresvmb]

funnily enough i think that i agree mostly with 543, i think mine is {nsg, uneven, ta vera, SS, sigmund}

NSG I’m not going to lie - I think this is somewhat of a crappy coalition. I don’t know that I would have S_S as high as you do, or nearly enough to include in a “coalition”. And I’m also a bit confused as to why you seem so intent to misread some of my thinking, but that’s a bit self-centered I suppose.

[Andresvmb]

UneveN and Sigmund are Town though - we agree there. My position hasn’t changed there.

[northsidegal]

funnily enough i think that i agree mostly with 543, i think mine is {nsg, uneven, ta vera, SS, sigmund}

NSG I’m not going to lie - I think this is somewhat of a crappy coalition. I don’t know that I would have S_S as high as you do, or nearly enough to include in a “coalition”. And I’m also a bit confused as to why you seem so intent to misread some of my thinking, but that’s a bit self-centered I suppose.

could you elaborate on what you mean by / where you see instances of my misreading your thinking?

[UneveN]

could you elaborate on what you mean by / where you see instances of my misreading your thinking?

Interestingly enough I was just looking to see if this actually occurred and I missed it.

[Andresvmb]

In post 648, UneveN wrote:
In post 647, northsidegal wrote:
andres is a bit of a surprising inclusion.

I liked his content with regards to Iconeum.

fair. i can even see where you're coming from and maybe even agree, actually.

You agree with how I’m looking at Iconeum, but you’re surprised another player might include me in their Town pool? I just didn’t get that at all.

[Andresvmb]

Instead of “misreading my thinking” I suppose I should have said “thought my contributions were relevant and positive, but don’t think I deserve to be TR”. Particularly over S_S who I felt shied away from a fight with Sigmund in a rather timid and somewhat Scummy way. If I may say so. Like Sigmund’s points around that I felt were spot on.

[northsidegal]

In post 648, UneveN wrote:
In post 647, northsidegal wrote:
andres is a bit of a surprising inclusion.

I liked his content with regards to Iconeum.

fair. i can even see where you're coming from and maybe even agree, actually.

You agree with how I’m looking at Iconeum, but you’re surprised another player might include me in their Town pool? I just didn’t get that at all.

you're confusing the chronology there. i was confused uneven included you, uneven gave the reason, then i said that i agreed that your progression on iconeum was good. this is also—to my memory—the only instance that i've even really talked about you or your contributions, so i don't think there's anything else you could possibly be referring to in 660 when you say i thought your contributions were good but not worthy of being townread than this.

[Andresvmb]

I still like the idea of an Andre Ico scum theatre team...but I know this is my bias for non-boring teams.
@Uneven what about those interactions makes Andre seem towny to you?

Look I’ll give it to you straight - if Ico and I were aligned, I let Ico take on a lot of heat, push people loudly, and stay out of it. Knowing how they play as both alignments, I know they like to get down and dirty as Scum, and can be super loud and convincing as Town. I see no need in trying to fake a fight D1 with them unless I really felt there was a need. And since the wagon is mostly being pushed by me, what need is there?

[Sigmund]

Instead of “misreading my thinking” I suppose I should have said “thought my contributions were relevant and positive, but don’t think I deserve to be TR”. Particularly over S_S who I felt shied away from a fight with Sigmund in a rather timid and somewhat Scummy way. If I may say so. Like Sigmund’s points around that I felt were spot on.

TRUE

SS BACK TO PRETENDING HES A TREE EVER SINCE I STOPPED SLAPPING HIM WITH MY SWORD

[Andresvmb]

you're confusing the chronology there. i was confused uneven included you, uneven gave the reason, then i said that i agreed that your progression on iconeum was good. this is also—to my memory—the only instance that i've even really talked about you or your contributions, so i don't think there's anything else you could possibly be referring to in 660 when you say i thought your contributions were good but not worthy of being townread than this.

Perhaps that me reading backwards when catching up. But I’ll say this - I think you should be able to read me properly here. Do you think I’m Scum?

[northsidegal]

you're confusing the chronology there. i was confused uneven included you, uneven gave the reason, then i said that i agreed that your progression on iconeum was good. this is also—to my memory—the only instance that i've even really talked about you or your contributions, so i don't think there's anything else you could possibly be referring to in 660 when you say i thought your contributions were good but not worthy of being townread than this.

Perhaps that me reading backwards when catching up. But I’ll say this - I think you should be able to read me properly here. Do you think I’m Scum?

let me answer your question with a few questions, hopefully this isn't annoying.

do you have some unique confidence that i should be able to read you, or is that more of a general statement of faith in my ability (as well as my alignment)? if it's the first, why? as i said elsewhere, i think you said we played together before but i can't seem to recall or find whatever game that might have been.

do you think that i scumread you?

do you think that you have objectively played in a towny manner this game or have otherwise specifically played your towngame? if so, what parts of your play this game so far characterizes that?

[Andresvmb]

I still like the idea of an Andre Ico scum theatre team...but I know this is my bias for non-boring teams.
@Uneven what about those interactions makes Andre seem towny to you?

Look I’ll give it to you straight - if Ico and I were aligned, I let Ico take on a lot of heat, push people loudly, and stay out of it. Knowing how they play as both alignments, I know they like to get down and dirty as Scum, and can be super loud and convincing as Town. I see no need in trying to fake a fight D1 with them unless I really felt there was a need. And since the wagon is mostly being pushed by me, what need is there?

And to back this up, look at Ico’s reaction once I start SR’ing their slot (they were Scum): viewtopic.php?p=12680887#p12680887. They’re perfectly happy to engage in fights and go hard against folks pushing their slot. Just keep that in mind.

[ta vera]

I townread ta vera for calling a scumread on her a good post.

lol

[UneveN]

NSG I’m not going to lie

Look I’ll give it to you straight

[Andresvmb]

let me answer your question with a few questions, hopefully this isn't annoying.

do you have some unique confidence that i should be able to read you, or is that more of a general statement of faith in my ability (as well as my alignment)? if it's the first, why? as i said elsewhere, i think you said we played together before but i can't seem to recall or find whatever game that might have been.

do you think that i scumread you?

We played a game back in 2018 that I distinctly remember. Here: https://forum.mafia451.com/t/chosen-gam ... =andresvmb. You were somewhat lurky but read me correctly.

And yes, from how you’ve approached me, I think you SR me. I would rather you just stated it either way.

[ta vera]

been busy, might be busy for the rest of today (irl, not today in-game)

I will say that I do like your push on nsg. I don't see scum doing that if nsg is town as they can just conveniently dispose of her N1 with no one questioning that NK.

i would say that you overestimate the amount of people in this playerlist who know who i am and how much the scumteam even ought to fear me, but given even sigmund seems to know me perhaps it's more people in the playerlist than i realized. (although that second part still might be overestimated, i am quite rusty.)

i know you, but only as a moderator.

[Andresvmb]

do you think that you have objectively played in a towny manner this game or have otherwise specifically played your towngame? if so, what parts of your play this game so far characterizes that?

I haven’t been all that Towny perhaps, but I do think there’s some hallmarks of my Town play. If you see me care somewhat intensely about how folks are reading me, then yeah, that’s Town me. Go cross-check with other games, since I don’t expect to be taken at face value here when you aren’t sure of my alignment.

[Andresvmb]

NSG I’m not going to lie

Look I’ll give it to you straight

I’ve tried minimizing the amount of times I use words like this, but for some reason I haven’t been able to. I find myself saying “to be honest” a lot in games and it’s not particularly helpful.

[northsidegal]

let me answer your question with a few questions, hopefully this isn't annoying.

do you have some unique confidence that i should be able to read you, or is that more of a general statement of faith in my ability (as well as my alignment)? if it's the first, why? as i said elsewhere, i think you said we played together before but i can't seem to recall or find whatever game that might have been.

do you think that i scumread you?

We played a game back in 2018 that I distinctly remember. Here: https://forum.mafia451.com/t/chosen-gam ... =andresvmb. You were somewhat lurky but read me correctly.

And yes, from how you’ve approached me, I think you SR me. I would rather you just stated it either way.

ah, i realized earlier that we had played on 451 but i guess it then slipped my mind.

i know you, but only as a moderator.

yeah, i guess i'm getting old. it's weird, i still feel like a newbie but now sometimes i'm among the oldest players in a playerlist, and i would be the equivalent of a 2013-er when i joined in 2017 (if my math is right). weird.

[Andresvmb]

As a disclaimer I have not seen Ico scum though.

Can someone please link an Ico scum game?

I just did on this page btw.