Mini Normal 2209: Musicals II [Endgame]

[InsidiousLemons]

and how would you respond to this:

what reason does scum!T3 have for the change of heart in 397?

[bloodhail]

you're basing your solve almost entirely on who is "bad enough" to NK boxxy rather than on yesterday's dayplayt. you are either scum or are too hyperfocused to see that scum may have doubted boxxy's vt claim, or may have weighed the options and decided a boxxy kill was worth it anyway, or may have killed him to implicate another player, or may have simply forgotten about or not paid adequate attention to the claim, as anya did. hell, i've played more than my fair share of 9p games, but if you asked me whether shooting a vt after losing a partner d1 substantially increases scum's chances of losing the game, i'd have said no. it's entirely possible that whoever shot boxxy may just not have had the awareness to know that it was a bad idea, nevermind all the examples above where they did know and decided to do it anyway.

oh so are you claiming scum then

[bloodhail]

but really, no, not all of my thinking is entirely on NKA but it's not like you can get partner tells off not_mafia and anyone teamed with him would b entirely willing to bus him. this makes the game complicated. none of my reads off yesterdays dayplay are strong enough that i rule someone out from being scum entirely

(an aside: anyone who tries to use not_mafia for associative tells is a fucking idiot or scum and should be policy yeeted and their opinions entirely discarded)

[bloodhail]

fwiw the large normal ended overnight, in that game i was scum with t3 and bussed him day 1

single game meta is terrible but his play that game was absurdly scummy with bizarre overconfident pushes with terrible reasoning and blatant opportunism

granted i had an insider perspective on his play that game so the qualities may have been more noticeable in my mind

dont think hes playing like that here altho i did have a brief moment of doubt when i made a list

on further reflection T3 is bad at this game so he might make that kill

look, you did it just now. what is the rationale behind disregarding the townpoints from your meta knowledge of t3 in favour of the idea that he's bad enough at the game that he may indeed have made the kill? i understand that 443 is far from an endorsement of t3, but the "on further reflection" suggests that you're at least partially rescinding what you've already said about him today. why does the revelation that t3 is "bad at this game" outweigh the fact that he isn't playing the way he did when he was scum?

because i already said meta knowledge off one fuckin game isnt that strong and his vote on me is the same opportunistic shit he pulled as scum. u act as if a meta based read is supposed to be iron clad or that i didnt waver and have doubts on day 1

and how would you respond to this:

what reason does scum!T3 have for the change of heart in 397?

meh, i had forgotten about the movement and reconsideration of his vote late in the day that did look town. sometimes people do shit just to look town though. i wouldnt necessarily say hes done anything that makes him clear but meh

[bloodhail]

same qusetion to you as unowen: how confident are you willing to bet that im scum

[bloodhail]

u seem very uncomfortable with my NKA attempts

[InsidiousLemons]

none of my reads off yesterdays dayplay are strong enough that i rule someone out from being scum entirely

do you agree with my points on anya/cdb in 469? why or why not?

[InsidiousLemons]

u seem very uncomfortable with my NKA attempts

what do you think this says about me? there's almost certainly only one scum left, so if anything this should be a point in my favour

[InsidiousLemons]

same qusetion to you as unowen: how confident are you willing to bet that im scum

what are you hoping to accomplish with this question? suffice it to say that if the answer were "very" or "entirely", you probably wouldn't be around to ask it.

[InsidiousLemons]

heading to bed now. i likely won't be back in the thread for at least 12 hours. bloodhail is at E-1 by my count, don't do anything stupid

[bloodhail]

none of my reads off yesterdays dayplay are strong enough that i rule someone out from being scum entirely

do you agree with my points on anya/cdb in 469? why or why not?

nothing is certain but i haven't namedropped those two bc i don't think there's strong reasons to suspect them, yeah. anya probably doesnt hardbus not_mafia day 1 when there were other viable wagons although u are maybe overstating the extent to which she drove that wagon. wouldnt name either of them in my PoE regardless right now

u seem very uncomfortable with my NKA attempts

what do you think this says about me? there's almost certainly only one scum left, so if anything this should be a point in my favour

what

[bloodhail]

same qusetion to you as unowen: how confident are you willing to bet that im scum

what are you hoping to accomplish with this question? suffice it to say that if the answer were "very" or "entirely", you probably wouldn't be around to ask it.

im asking u how much u are willing to bet that i am scum

put it this way: would you stake your own life in this game that i am scum? that simple.

are you confident enough to bet that i will flip scum and the game will end, and that if i flip town, you should be voted out next?

[bloodhail]

that simple, buddy. my life for yours. if you agree to it i will gladly lay down and die

[ChannelDelibird]

Oh, cool it with the 1v1 talk.

Quickly checking in before a proper contribution later this evening but that boxxy kill is really strange. I feel like it's presumably designed to implicate either me or UNOwen, but taking out a viable misexecution target who'd already claimed VT is baffling to me.

I think I want to start with a VOTE: Anya.

[Anya]

Anya so quickly moving from the vote on me to N_M feels likely town. I would expect scum in her position to see where the wagon on me went because it absolutely looked like the most likely thing to come to fruition at that stage and I don't think anyone would have given her any grief for staying on me.

come again?

[T3]

Let's not, bloohail.

[bloodhail]

Let's not, bloohail.

nah

[ChannelDelibird]

Anya so quickly moving from the vote on me to N_M feels likely town. I would expect scum in her position to see where the wagon on me went because it absolutely looked like the most likely thing to come to fruition at that stage and I don't think anyone would have given her any grief for staying on me.

come again?

literally forgot about that entirely, my bad 100%. Wasn't wild about your posting so far Today but the quoted is still valid

UNVOTE: Anya

[T3]

The whole lemons 1v1 thing I don't think is AI.

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry guys kinda missed a lot here. I'm catching up now.

[ItalianoVD]

Sorry guys kinda missed a lot here. I'm catching up now.

[InsidiousLemons]

u seem very uncomfortable with my NKA attempts

what do you think this says about me? there's almost certainly only one scum left, so if anything this should be a point in my favour

what

you brought this up as the final point of an argument (after joking about me claiming scum), so it seems like "you seem very uncomfortable with my NKA attempts" is being presented as a possible scumtell. but if there's only one scum left and i'm it, i would only be interested in protecting myself. you haven't landed on me with your NKA attempts, so what does lonewolf!lemons stand to gain by interfering? it's weird to me that you would point to it as incriminating. unless i'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, 480 doesn't fit with the rest of your argument.

[ItalianoVD]

boxxy scumreads UNOwen

and hammers scum!NM who is also voting boxxy with UNOwen + dead boxxy = no way we let UNOwen survive another day.

This is actually not entirely true.

Spoiler:

I actually think N_M and Italiano are opposite alignments. From my L-1 wagon of N_M, T3, Italiano, and UNOwen, I still feel there's at least 1 scum on it, and probably only 1 scum.

Why is shifting positions a scumtell? You definitely prompted me to look at T3 again. I admitted early in our discussion that I had been ignoring him.

Shifting positions is fine, it's that you said I was misrepresenting you because of it that bothered me. Your later explanation of what you meant is a plausible perspective, but then didn't you notice that I was interpreting your answer wrongly when I talked about it in 240 and 320?

I didn't parse that out of 240. I ignored 320 because I wanted to push Italiano for a scumlist and I wanted to see if you would push my case any harder. I felt your case was dishonest and I wanted to see if you'd slip trying to drive it home.

It wasn't until 372 that I realized you were hung up on the "I don't" and your case appeared more honest.

He in fact wasn't scumreading Owen late in the day. He was also thinking right regarding the equity of myself and Not_Mafia. He was suspicious of CDB late so I'd guess that's more accurately of where his head was.

[ItalianoVD]

italiano is conftown. he friendly neighbour'd me last night. i was debating keeping this to myself but there is just no way it would be believable that i

wouldn't

be hard pushing italiano today given the strength and conviction of my opinions on him yesterday.

sorry for tunneling you italiano ^^;

It's all good I generally get scumread when I'm town and usually for goofy reasons which is why I can usually catch scum who interact with me. Maybe why I didn't catch Not_Mafia. With that said why would think I would defend my partner that terribly blatant. Like that's terrible play. Also why were you debating keeping it to yourself?

[ItalianoVD]

whoever killed boxxy was likely someone intimidated by his reads and wanted him out of the way regardless of being a claimed vt because they didnt want him pushing them (this is also probably a good look for lemons)

Come on this is so elementary. The fact that you are pointing out such a preschoolesque reason is suspicious. There's no such things as newbies in this game. It'd be best not to think that way.

i ~always shoot for a PR here night 1 after losing a partner

This is pointless. No one knows this but you and there's no way to prove it.

the easy answer is scum in italiano/unowen but T3's vote on me really sucks complete ass and makes me want to rescind that read

Easy answer huh? I doubt it's Owen. Whether people thought his push on boxxy was bad or not, reading it made me feel he was genuine and that he wasn't just throwing things at a wall and hoping something stuck. I was somewhat confirmed town Day 1 and now I'm actually confirmed Day 2, so you may wanna try another nonsensical push and see if that sticks. And I've seen scum rescind reads of their "townies" just because they vote them.