Mini 134: Mafia Island -- Game Over!

[jediknight]

I REALLY wish you would take the time to get my gender correct. You keep ping ponging between me being male and female. I'm a guy. And it's a little annoying.

What's a framer?

Also, my results on IS and Candace were exactly the same as written. MeMe's was the way I paraphrased earlier. It said that she didn't confess but that I felt she was hiding the fact. If I'm wrong then kill me tomorrow. But MeMe is scum and I will NEVER change my mind on that one.

[jediknight]

Not the same as I reported... I mean I got the same wording in my result with both of them. MeMe's was different...as I have paraphrased.

[NanookTheWolf]

OK, I have just read over the thread which almost took me like 3 hours I must add ....

While reading the thread I took Jedi's investigation and tossed it to the side for a moment and read into the posts ...

Many things struck me as odd from everyone, Mostly from Talitha and Candice in the beginning, MMCL and Stewie in the midst, and Meme towards the end ...

Vote: Talitha

Reason being is that there was a comment made earlier about Talitha from Meme stating that would Talitha trust her own self in this game, Talitha stated know, and that she would most likely jump on her fellow scum before anyone else if she were scum.

Well, I found the whole Pwnz thing to be interesting, because that is exactly what you did ... you voted him to start making some of us think that you may be a cop, and somehow it came to the consensus that Pwnz was lynched and he was scum. I know that this may sound weird, and I could be making the biggest mistake in my mafia career, but I'm going to have to go with this for now.

Talitha, I'm sorry if you truly are who you say you are, but with all the pressure that I was feeling because of my vote on Meme I had to go back and look things over. Those few posts struck out the most to me, and so you have my vote.

*crosses fingers*

[jediknight]

I'm gonna hold my comments until later right now I just wanna spit nails and that's never good. I hope you're right as well... It's things like this that make me less and less interested in playing this game. Passing up a cop's investigation indeed...

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Talitha (4): Stewie, MeMe, MMCL, NanookTheWolf
MeMe (2): Talitha, jediknight

Not Voting: Candice

As the day goes on, suspicion focuses on Talitha and MeMe, with the passengers divided evenly. Eventually, tired of waiting, they settle on Talitha and drag her off into the ocean.

When she stops breathing, her body is dragged back onto the beach. The first thing you find on her body is a small purse containing make-up and some diamonds. More searching reveals identification confirming she is indeed a wealthy heiress.

Talitha, the Rich Heiress (townie), has been lynched.

It is now Night 4. Get your choices in by Monday, December 6 at Midnight EST.

[Yaw]

Wow. You guys are

fast

. I'm impressed. 8)

Morning breaks, and everyone gathers on the beach. There you find Candice, stabbed and hung from the bow of the ferry. When you go up on the deck to cut down her body, you find her backpack has been left on deck. Inside are some text books and an official letter from the University in Dar es Salaam to some officials on Zanzibar for help with research.

When you get over the shock of the death, you notice that there's another person missing. In a scared clump, you all search the island, finding a body inland. MeMe lies face-down, the left side of her neck torn open. Embedded in a tree in front of her is a large knife. Searching her body you find...business cards that you recognize from the cabin on your arrival on this island.

Candice, Student (Townie), killed Night 4
MeMe, Mafia Godfather (Godmother?), killed Night 4

With 4 alive, it will take 3 to lynch. It is now Day 5.

[Stewie]

Ok, please don't make a quick choice. I am vigi, and I killed meme. And explanation to come later.

[jediknight]

Well...if that is true then it would have been good to know YESTERDAY!!!!!! I'm still so irritated...

I investigated Stewie. And I got the same result I got for MeMe. He's open about what he's done...doesn't admit mafia involvement but I see right through him. Blah blah blah...

Is there any question of my copness now? And

FOS: Everyone

for being idiots...ok....sorry I take that back...just playing like idiots. Can't wait to hear the explanation...

[jediknight]

Our odds could have been so much better...

Okay Okay...I'll get over the anger but I would like to sincerely

FOS: Nanook

for being so sure of his vote but then claiming to spend three hours and come up with really lame reasons why MeMe was right over Tally. My result was far more concrete than what he threw out at the last minute...

And somewhere MeMe laughs...again!

[MMCL]

Ack - Tally gone and Candice. I must admit that MeMe had me completely convinced she was innocent. She can talk the talk! Damn her in the nicest possible way.

OK... I'm thinking Stewie is an SK not a vigilante. Hence his hurried confession and the reason that jedi see's right through him. It's either that or he's scum and lying because his godfather was killed too. Anyone else claiming vigi and the reason for MeMe's death?

The weapon of choice of this SK - a knife - which explains the 'double murder' from an earlier day (on an innocent).

3 scum and an SK is usual in a game of 12 - especially if you have a universal backup. Nanook's long decision making process is admittedly suspect - however I want to hear from Stewie.

Against Stewie - it also goes part way to explain his relentless attack on tally and his position on MeMe.

Vote: Stewie

[Stewie]

Ok, here it goes:

I still had my doubts about meme being scum. However, I figured she was going to get lynched anyway. So I figure that by killing her, we buy a better chance of winning if she was scum, and it does no harm if she isn't, since we would have lost anyway. And, if she was telling the truth, she would hide again with jedi, and not die, thus proving her innocence for good. Why a better chance of winning? Here's why:

If meme is scum, and I don't kill her. instead, we lynch her. there's 4 people left, one of which dies at night. 3 people left, 1 scum. Lynch or lose in both days.

However, if I she's scum (which she was) and I kill her, then we have a lynch. Assume we lynch wrong. 3 people left, 1 scum. We still can win, given that a) you don't lynch me and b) I kill scum. We can make one more mistake.

Also, if there were 2 scum and 3 town, the scum would need support from only one scum, while in the situation we are now, he needs support from 2 town members. Much more likely a town win.

Plus, I thought that if talitha was not scum, then meme was scum. This is because I could not pair jedi with anyone else.

Jedi: you got EXACTLY the same? Or just similar?

Anyway, I see how I could have confessed... I did kill someone after all. She just happened to be scum.

By the way, my role name is the game hunter. I'm a northamerican hunter, and have no problem on hunting down scum. I'm not restricted (that is 1-shot, 2-shot, etc).

As of know, I believe jedi. My vote desicion is between nanook and mmcl, but most likely going to mmcl (since if nanook was mafia, he would have voted for talitha in the first place, and not started with meme and gone to talitha later on, when candice had plenty of chances to get the job done)

Besides jedi, if I'm scum, then who killed meme?

What do you all think about mass roleclaiming?

I'm not going to vote yet, or say anything else (I'm a bit exited that we only have to kill one more to win) so now i'll wait for the rest of you to post.

Again, please try not to make a quick lynch. If you lynch me, we lose. Give me time to convince you, since I'm the vigi, and therefore I'm the only one that can kill scum if we fail to lynch him today. If you still decide to kill me, then good job scum. But don't make it quick.

<uses preview to see new posts before posting himself>

MMCL, you are accusing me of protecting meme and of being the sk... that doesn't make any sense. At this point, if I were the sk, then I would not have been defending meme. at this point, i would try to lynch/kill all scum because if we kill all town but there's still 2 mafia left, then i would lose. Thus, my priority WOULD be scum. This accusations don't make sense to me. The only reason i defended meme is because I thought she was telling the truth, just like you did.

Besides, sk usually use their kills every time they have a chance to. Are you a vigi? What are you? Because you are the only one that hasn't claimed yet. Please enlighten us.

And since you took the liberty to vote for me, I will

vote: mmcl

since after that accusation I feel more confident doing this. If I'm wrong, then I'll kill nanook tonight

Which brings me to this: if you see it from my point of view, if I convince you not to lynch me, then the town wins. Unless jedi happens to be scum which would be incredibly unlikely.

Also note what a bullshit argument "stabbed and hanged" is right now. It happened today too, in addition to my kill.

[jediknight]

Barring a few small words the structure is EXACTLY the same. And the paraphrase is exactly the same...

I'm not being very objective right now...Stewie's explanation holds about as much water with me as Nanook's did yesterday. Hogwash both ways...

What say we put the votes away though. This game has irritated me to no end and to lose it now would really push me over the edge.

[Stewie]

fine by me.

unvote: mmcl

But I'm almost convinced he's scum.

Btw, when you said "nanook's", did you mean "Meme's"?

I have no defense whatsoever against your investigation, other than the fact that I did kill meme, and I would certainly confess to that, being pro town and all.

i still want mmcl to come out...

[jediknight]

No...nanooks explanation of why he changed his vote yesterday. MeMe's explanations have been crap for days in my mind. Nanook's the one that changed his unchangable mind suddenly for little reason.

And yeah....unvoting is good. MMCL?

[Stewie]

Ok, let me see what else I can add.

post 565, by me:

Secondly, there's one thing in particular that I want talitha do defend herself against. Last page, I pointed out that if we lynch meme, and if she's town we lynch jedi. This would mean a loss for the town,

unless a doc/vigi combination saves the town

somehow (assuming there is one, and also assuming this is possible).

This might seem like too little, but I just want the evidence to add up. The reason I said the bolded part is because I thought that talitha was scum, and by saying that she would claim vigilante, and catch her in a lie. The reason I thought this would work is, because I stated that only a doc/vigi would save us. I didn't think she'd have the balls to claim doc, but she would claim vigi, in an attempt to say that she could save the town. Of course, not all the town would trust me, but I figured we could have done a no lynch and agree on targeting each other. I was willing to sacrifice myself to get rid of one scum. I figure that this doesn't hold much, but it's something, and I assume that anything that helps you can't really hurt. unless it helps you lynch me, in which case we lose.

Ok, here's why I think you should trust me, and this should hold more water than anything else:

2 people died last night. 1 of them was scum, and therefore was not killed by scum. The other wasn't scum, and therefore was killed by scum.

MMCL claims that I am the sk, and that's why there was evidence of two people dying the night before last (stabbed and hung). However, tonight we had the same evidence on the mafia kill (that would be candice) and an extra kill (meme, by me, the vigi). plus, sk don't wait until night 5 to make a kill. Thus, it does not make sense for me - or anyone - to be a sk. Plus, MMCL asked himself if anyone else wants to come out as the vigi. He is the only one that has not claimed, so I assume that if he asked, then he's not the vigi. Thus, nobody else could be a vigi. Since there were two deaths last night, one of them being a vigi, and that vigi being me, I'm cleared by logic.

Please tell me if I'm missing something, I probably have a way to prove your point wrong.

[Yaw]

Being nice to the sick Wolfie.

From the V/LA thread:

May be unable to post until as late as ... Dec. 6th. I meant to do a full posting like I normally do today, but the flu has hit me hard, and now I have to go to work in an hour to possibly work a double, after which I will sleep for like 6 hours and go right back to work again. If this isn't definate then I will be back tomorrow back to the usual posting.

[MMCL]

Unvote

- I am going to bed now - so you will have to wait for a claim (it is 03.15)....

[MeMe]

Damn.

[MMCL]

Any SK worth his salt won't start eliminating the mafia until they have done some of the job for him... He needs them at the beginning of the game because his chances are greatly diminished if he picks them off accidentally - it is also much more confusing for the town to have an extra kill suddenly appear and be claimed as the work of a vigi....

I don't believe you Stewie - one little bit.... you need to convince me as currently you do have my vote (if not currently). The fact that you hold information back when talking to the confessor (Jedi) does not suggest anything other than a crazed mind - because you can't be a GF.


My role: I am a Student from Dar who snuck away with his childhood sweetheart on the ferry (to get up to no good in the breaking waves under the moon, no doubt). She was here for legit reasons, I was here to enjoy the sunshine and her company. I was to search for her each night and if I found her we would become masons.

My official role name is "Student's lover"

I thought originally it was IS, that was why I was flirting with him - I then thought it was MeMe for a while after her suggestion that was close to the mark. It turned out it was Candice and we did find each other the night before last.

Her suspicions were much the same as mine: Nanook and Stewie. I can't tell you much more than that - save, of course, I am innocent.

[jediknight]

That's a pretty decent idea...and if he isn't true then he's spent a good portion of the game setting it up.

MMCL and I did a similar gimmick in Zelda preparing for the possibility of having to claim. We were supposed to be the Blacksmith's if I recall right MMCL? But we didn't get so elaborate. Of course, with PB's razor sharp copping we didn't have that much of a chance.

So I'm not sold totally...first what was it about IS that made you think that he was the one? And what was it about MeMe exactly? And how could anyone have not suspected MeMe???

And Stewie was so pro-MeMe (of course everyone but me and Tally were) but what was it about Nanook that you guys suspected?

[Stewie]

1. Any SK worth his salt won't start eliminating the mafia until they have done some of the job for him... He needs them at the beginning of the game because his chances are greatly diminished if he picks them off accidentally - it is also much more confusing for the town to have an extra kill suddenly appear and be claimed as the work of a vigi....

2. I don't believe you Stewie - one little bit.... you need to convince me as currently you do have my vote (if not currently). The fact that you hold information back when talking to the confessor (Jedi) does not suggest anything other than a crazed mind - because you can't be a GF.


3. My role: I am a Student from Dar who snuck away with his childhood sweetheart on the ferry (to get up to no good in the breaking waves under the moon, no doubt). She was here for legit reasons, I was here to enjoy the sunshine and her company. I was to search for her each night and if I found her we would become masons.

My official role name is "Student's lover"

I thought originally it was IS, that was why I was flirting with him - I then thought it was MeMe for a while after her suggestion that was close to the mark. It turned out it was Candice and we did find each other the night before last.

Her suspicions were much the same as mine: Nanook and Stewie. I can't tell you much more than that - save, of course, I am innocent.

1. What? Of course they need each other at the beggining of the game. If I didn't explicity said it, I implied it. This works in my favour though, because I was defending meme (who was scum) when it was NOT early in the game. At that point, if I were sk, I HAD to kill scum. PLus, your theory that I would not kill at first to not kill scum is pretty darn stupid. It's extremely risky for a sk to be doing this. By killing, I could have gotten cops, therefore making it harder for me to be uncovered. It doesn't make sense for a sk to sit and wait, specially when the only thing that's any good about them is that they can kill. You seem to be picking up bullshit reasons to lynch me fast.

2. I gave you reasons as to why if there is a sk, it's not me. I gave you reasons as to why there is no sk. I showed proof that shows I had this role from yesterday. I'll even give you reasons as to why jedi got the result he got: jedi either gets guilty on people that killed that night, or people that have the abiliity to kill, regardless of his intentions. Or of course, he's scum, but if he had the balls to say he was a cop and point to a fellow scum, who happens to be meme, and get her vigi-killed, then he deserves to win. But I doubt this is the case.

3. That's laughable at best. You could easely make that role up. Just start flirting with random people, like IS, and when it's your turn to claim, say that you are a xxxxx lover, and that your role requires you to find the xxxxx. If you had not been so outgoing with it days 1 and 2 (and 3?), then I would had believed you, maybe, but this looks like a big setup. And how convinient, your lover is dead.

Let's take a look further:

post 42: you join the rite bandwagon, started by meme. I do not join the bandwagon with a vote, I just ask questions. I was not trying to lynch rite, but trying to get more information. I did not join the second rite bandwagon, and the only reason you didn't is because he already had 5 when you got around to posting.

Post 91: meme says that there's something she took note on,

bun not necessarely suspicious[/n]. She was talking about you. How convinient.

Post 93: Apparently, back then I was suspicious for "defending" an innocent. Back then, I was pairing with Candice. Now I'm suspicious for defending scum (but killing it the same night). One word: wtf?!

Post 104: "Candice said three things in total which I recognised as an accurate and honest defence." And the things are... Oh, wait, you never tell.

Post 132: meme suggests I change my vote from you to rite. I, being so smart and all, don't.

Post 151: You are 100% percent sure candice is not scum. No shit? You scum, meme scum, pwnz scum. No second kill night 1, = candice: not scum.

Post 307: the setup begins. You fos everyone voting is.

Post 318: a post before this one, you are a sixtheeth-assed argument (too shitty to even be half assed) so I vote for you.

Post 321: MeMe says that what you did was fishy, yet turns her attention to me. If I were scum and you were town, she'd turn to you.

Post 327: you you make a 1/100000000000000000 - assed argument. Does your role require you to say you love your lover each time that you are attacked by the town?

Post 331: yet again, meme tries to get you out of the boiling water.

Post 333: MeMe suggests a lover situation. I wouldn't doubt that you wouldn't talk about it over night, seeing that you would probably have to roleclaim.

Post 372: You say that it wouldn't be surprizing if we had a lyncher... "oh, he thinks I'm scum, so he's probably a lyncher." You didn't say this explicity, but thanks for using me as lyncher and you are lynchee in your example

post 463: what the fuck?

post 468: meme does it again. She says she would go after you, yet she doesn't.

Post 469: now pwnz does exactly the same.

Post 471: you wouldn't last the night? yeah, right. Hey scum, there are two cops out in the open... Screw trying to get the doc, let's go after the student lover!!!

Post 494: this has nothing to do with mmcl, but I thought I'd point it out. Meme suggests lynching a cop. Had you posted this yesterday, I would have changed my vote to her. She's not perfect.

Post 506: you had 2 votes on yourself, one mine. I change my vote from you to pwnz. That was pwnz's second vote, which eventually ended in a lynch. After the lynch night starts. I recall wanting to off you that night, but didn't. Now I see it as a big mistake.

Post 517: uhhh, your love didn't die. Thanks for setting up your future claim, scum.

Post 595: you were trying to clear meme too. You weren't so outgoing with it, but I find the fact that the main reason you are planning on voting for me today bullshit, and this post backs this up.

post 618: oh, you agree with me? talitha should claim, right? And today I'm scum. Hmm...

Post 646: let me get this straight: you vote for tally, and you are a confused townie. I vote for her, and I'm evil scum!

post 700: not an accusation, but jedi asked in this post what a framer is. A framer is a mafia role that has the ability to frame someone, so if they are investigated them, the investigation would turn out guilty no matter what. (for example, if mmcl was a framer, he would probably frame me. I think this is a posibility) I was quite sure of meme's innocence, so I assumed this would be a possiblity. I was wrong, and I'm sorry about that.



Now, MMCL, let's assume that I am a sk for a second. Wouldn't I need to go after scum today to pull a win? So if I am sk, and you lynch me, town loses. If I were sk, the only way to win is lynch town or no lynch and hope that the sk and the mafia kill each other.

Plus, you didn't give us enough info about your role. How do you check for your lover? You send a night choice by pm?

And candice pretty much disagreed with you yesterday... and you agreed to what she said after, yet kept your vote on tally. She was more leaning towards meme and me than tally. You were leaning towards tally, of course.

[MMCL]

Gosh, such a long post ... and so much bullshit (I wouldn't usually curse, unless of course I am being unneccessarily and quite aggressively attacked).

For some reason you have seen me as a threat to you for some time - haven't you Stewie. A threat, or maybe a weaker link.
Relentlessly and attacking me for little or no reason, to the point that I was not the only person to comment on it. It nearly worked once as well - but it didn't (thankfully) so you tried a different strategy didn't you... Jumped on an already forming bandwagon against Tally and then used every iota of strength to attack her. I too was convinced by MeMe - a bad mistake which I am now kicking myself over - and now you are back to me.
I will tell you now - you will not find me such a pushover. If it had to be a toss-up between me and Nanook, I know that if I were scum I would rather try to attack me than Nanook.

Seems like someone decided to do a post-by-post analysis of me to prove my guilt. Trouble is - I'm not guilty - and digging so expertly through my posts in the way you have will help prove this! It's interesting how each time you make an argument against me you use it as a form of defense for yourself... That and you don't actually analyse each post only the ones that help defend yourself.


You are clearly scum,

Vote: Stewie

. I am 100% sure, but for the record... From your above post:

post 42: you join the rite bandwagon, started by meme. I do not join the bandwagon with a vote, I just ask questions. I was not trying to lynch rite, but trying to get more information. I did not join the second rite bandwagon, and the only reason you didn't is because he already had 5 when you got around to posting.

So you make an assumption about why I join a bandwagon - and that makes me evil. I clearly stated in that post that I was following MeMe. I even said: "I will join MeMe as I tend to agree - MeMe's actions wouldn't 'worry' me - it suggests that you were relying on MeMe for some reason Vote:rite.. Care to explain?"
Then you make an assumption about why I don't join a bandwagon - and that makes me evil. Geez - I can't win, can I! Damned if I do and Damned if I don't.
I didn't join, if you remember because I was waiting for more information because of the slip that rite made (my post 187). You then posted that you would rather rite be lynched than someone randomly (your post 190) but you don't place the vote even though you "don't quite buy the claim, if you ask me." (your post 188).

So you and I do virtually the same thing, yet... when I do it, I am scum.

Post 91: meme says that there's something she took note on,

bun not necessarely suspicious[/n]. She was talking about you. How convinient.

I am asked to account for a post by MeMe... or are you just adding fuel to your fire against me? The fact that MeMe was talking about CANDICE and not me - isn't an issue I suppose Perhaps you should be a bit more careful when making accusations.

Post 93: Apparently, back then I was suspicious for "defending" an innocent. Back then, I was pairing with Candice. Now I'm suspicious for defending scum (but killing it the same night). One word: wtf?!

I'm not sure you actually read this post - because if you did you would have seen exactly what I was doing up until that point in the game was clearly explained. The following quote of mine paraphrases all that: "Ultimately I guess it depends how you play, just because I have voted for someone doesn't neccesarily mean I want that person lynched. I like to watch the fall out of certain votes and 'who takes which side' in argument is always more telling than a random bandwagon. "
I will take a vote off someone if they convince me that it isn't deserved or if someone else appears to be much scummier.

If you are an SK and not MeMe's fellow scum then you only helped yourself last night - I've been in so many games were SKs have offered their services to the town (under the guise of a vigi) BUT WHEN IT SERVES THEM. I am not sure which you are, but I now know that you are one or the other - this entire post has convinced me of it.

Post 104: "Candice said three things in total which I recognised as an accurate and honest defence." And the things are... Oh, wait, you never tell.

No - I don't tell because I thought I saw something in one of her posts that suggested a DOC role to me. I was wrong again - but when questioned about it I tell people to read her replies and see for themselves because I don't want to reveal that I think she may be a doc. Also - the pure tone of her replies could not have been emulated... she was genuinely pissed off.

Post 132: meme suggests I change my vote from you to rite. I, being so smart and all, don't."

Again - I am asked to account for MeMe's behaviour. I would suggest that MeMe just wanted a quick lynch, after all they are more valuable to scum than continued discussion. I would also suggest that it may be that your fellow scum buddy is giving YOU advice.
You also replied to this post - didn't you. You said it was a good point she made. You said: "Hmm. Good point. But well, now rite has already four. Giving him one more would put him way too close to a lynch, closer than what I would feel confortable with."
Are you scum trying to appear innocent? At the same time, distance between you and MeMe is created! 2 birds. 1 stone. Candice then replies to you with: "Yes, MMCL jumped on the wagon because of IS's vote. However, MMCL read my defense and unvoted. He actually considered the evidence in front of him and made a decision, rather than continuously spouting off that IS is usually right and he's got a gut feeling."
See - I did change my mind - and I unvoted because I made a decision based on the information.

Post 151: You are 100% percent sure candice is not scum. No shit? You scum, meme scum, pwnz scum. No second kill night 1, = candice: not scum.

I do actually explain why I think Candice is innocent in this post. Don't I. Of course I turned out to be right - she was innocent - and that makes me scum doesn't it?

Post 307: the setup begins. You fos everyone voting is.

IS was innocent. I am suspicious of people voting someone I think is an innocent, and that makes me scum?

Post 318: a post before this one, you are a sixtheeth-assed argument (too shitty to even be half assed) so I vote for you.

I think IS is innocent because I think he is my 'lover' and so I FOS everyone voting for him. I am scum because of this? At the time I don't actually say "Well, I think that if I check out IS tonight, he and I will become masons, you see..."
You vote for me with: "IS did something suspicious, and thus their votes were justified. And thus, your suspicions aren't. It's not like he claimed cop"
Geez, ain't that just great. My suspicion isn't valid but you didn't actually know what my suspicion was at that point did you? Even innocent people make mistakes and do things that seem suspicious. It seems I was right after all, and you were wrong. THEIR SUSPICIONS WEREN'T VALID.

Post 321: MeMe says that what you did was fishy, yet turns her attention to me. If I were scum and you were town, she'd turn to you.

Unless we are both town? Or unless you have played a game with MeMe before. The first game I played with MeMe was Talitha's Pencil Case mafia. We were both scum. MeMe sent me a PM saying something like "Hi, we are scum together, make a mistake and I will not hesitate in eliminating you. Who do you think we should kill tonight?"
It is - and I think you will see that almost all agree on this - an established fact that MeMe will not hesitate in eliminating a member of her own team. She's a darling, but she's damned ruthless.

Post 327: you you make a 1/100000000000000000 - assed argument. Does your role require you to say you love your lover each time that you are attacked by the town?

No, it doesn't. But my guess at that stage was that IS was my lover. SO I try to indicate this to IS. Being the sex-crazed freak he is, he loves the attention - and missed my hinting.
He missed it because it meant nothing to him.

Post 331: yet again, meme tries to get you out of the boiling water.

No - I would suggest that MeMe can see I am hinting big time at a useful pro-town role and that she is desperate to try and find out what that role is and if it is any danger to her.
The first role she eliminates is cop (post 331)

Post 333: MeMe suggests a lover situation. I wouldn't doubt that you wouldn't talk about it over night, seeing that you would probably have to roleclaim.

So I let MeMe - the now dead GF - set up my role... the fact that I thought it was IS at the start of the day doesn't come into it. Yeah - MeMe set me up with this. That's why I acted funny but 'in role' before she suggests it.
I even state: "I have no opinion on MeMe, although this cupid malarky seems to be leading down the wrong path. I know I won't be following that tonight!"


From post 337, I stated: "I'm not ignoring ISes question - I think it is... interesting, and needs more evaluation. All i will say for now."
Which was my way of saying that I would check out IS.


From post 345 (Talitha): "My snap judgement is that MMCL is not scum. But dammit, what the hell is going on MMCL, I don't like it when you get all cryptic. (Me dense person, must hit me over the head to make me understand anything, remember?)
I'd be seriously thinking that MMCL had some kind of kooky role too, but he does talk about IS like that outside of the thread... still, I've never seen him do it in a game before.
I haven't seen IS do anything that could make anyone believe that he's innocent MMCL. So I have to conclude that you know something that I don't. Deny it, or gimme a little clue would you."
Another confirmed innocent sees me for what I am - a pro-town player with an odd role that is desperately dropping hints.

It's curious you skip over post 349. I admit my role in plain view: "MeMe's Crazy idea #43: If I am ISes lover, then Stewie is the jealous ex-wife."

From post 370: "See I can do it - just there was a specific reason I didn't want to. No - I will not give that reason. So where are we now?"
Why would I help lynch the person I think might form a mason group with me. Answer: I wouldn't.

Post 372: You say that it wouldn't be surprizing if we had a lyncher... "oh, he thinks I'm scum, so he's probably a lyncher." You didn't say this explicity, but thanks for using me as lyncher and you are lynchee in your example Smile

I used you because you were relentlessly attacking me.

post 463: what the fuck?

Well he is gorgeous. w00f w00f The fact that I thought he was my lover is just another good reason for me to keep saying so.

post 468: meme does it again. She says she would go after you, yet she doesn't.

She says if she had to pick sides she'd be on Talitha's. I would suggest that MeMe saw that there was potential in role to do major damage to her plans and that she needed to know what the role was before she voted me.

Post 469: now pwnz does exactly the same.

He doesn't do exactly the same - he just states that he believes Tally explained herself.

Post 471: you wouldn't last the night? yeah, right. Hey scum, there are two cops out in the open... Screw trying to get the doc, let's go after the student lover!!!

With two cops and a mason group revealed - I know I would rather hit the mason group. Why? Because the arguments that cops could be insane or such can be made - masons are harder to lynch and with the games' players being diminished, a mason group could be extremely hard to crack. Two people know each other are confirmed innocent. Trust is a wonderful thing in mafia games - anyone that knows me will know that I place trust as the most important asset.
Knowing the cops investigations already would mean that a mason group could piece things together quicker than a non-mason group. Cops are likely to be protected as well.
So why would mafia waste a kill on a 50/50 chance of missing (because of a doc protection) when they could hit the mason group that conspires against them?

Post 487: "I wouldnt say my role is much better than cop, at all really. But that's not to say I cant be useful - but I have to do something first. "
I hadn't found my lover so my role was useless at this stage. I also didn't know if my lover was searching for me.
I then tried a series of posts suggesting that docs do not protect me - why? Downplaying the importance I felt I had to play in the game... and so that a chance to deal with the confusion over sanity issues of cops could be dealt with.

Post 494: this has nothing to do with mmcl, but I thought I'd point it out. Meme suggests lynching a cop. Had you posted this yesterday, I would have changed my vote to her. She's not perfect.

I won't comment on as I feel it is you trying to redeem your actions from yesterday.

Post 506: you had 2 votes on yourself, one mine. I change my vote from you to pwnz. That was pwnz's second vote, which eventually ended in a lynch. After the lynch night starts. I recall wanting to off you that night, but didn't. Now I see it as a big mistake.

A big mistake for the town, yes. You are forgetting one thing - Im innocent.

Post 517: uhhh, your love didn't die. Thanks for setting up your future claim, scum.

If I set something up I didn't set it up in post 517 matey... I had been hinting at my role for a long long time. Why? Because masons are only useful when they could talk.
It was only Candice that told me that she had no idea I was looking for other than she "left her partner back at school".
I figured it had become so obvious what my role was by now that I would just come clean about it.

Post 595: you were trying to clear meme too. You weren't so outgoing with it, but I find the fact that the main reason you are planning on voting for me today bullshit, and this post backs this up.

I have thought you were suspicious for the entire game - as seen by my voting for you... constantly.

post 618: oh, you agree with me? talitha should claim, right? And today I'm scum. Hmm...

I can agree that someone who is near a lynch should claim and still think the person I agree with is scum. It depends on motives, I guess, mine were to save Tally - yours were to... see if she posed you a threat?

Post 646: let me get this straight: you vote for tally, and you are a confused townie. I vote for her, and I'm evil scum!

post 700: not an accusation, but jedi asked in this post what a framer is. A framer is a mafia role that has the ability to frame someone, so if they are investigated them, the investigation would turn out guilty no matter what. (for example, if mmcl was a framer, he would probably frame me. I think this is a posibility) I was quite sure of meme's innocence, so I assumed this would be a possiblity. I was wrong, and I'm sorry about that.

Oh so I'm a framer now

Now, MMCL, let's assume that I am a sk for a second. Wouldn't I need to go after scum today to pull a win? So if I am sk, and you lynch me, town loses. If I were sk, the only way to win is lynch town or no lynch and hope that the sk and the mafia kill each other.

The only way for you to win, if you were the SK, would be to hope you get killed tonight? Oooooooooooooooooohkay!

Plus, you didn't give us enough info about your role. How do you check for your lover? You send a night choice by pm?

One night choice, each night - and I actually got some information back as a result of the night choice. Which is WHY i thought that Yaw might be playing a trick on me.
The information I got was concerning if the player I checked out was 'in or out' last night. Not that useful in the scheme of things I'll admit, but Yaw is a tricky bastard and this would be a good way of hiding one role concealed inside another (post 655).

I was wrong about Tally - I fucked up. I was completely fooled by MeMe. I can only hope that the remaining town players aren't fooled by you. I am not 100% sure what you are Stewie - but I know you aren't a pro-town player.
Stewie - your arguments and overall proof of my guilt are so filled with flaws (especially when they are not even comments about me!) that next time you will save yourself if you just post a picture of a piece of hole-y cheese...

[Stewie]

Ok, I'm tired, and I want to have time to post in the other games. I'll post a few things...

The only way for you to win, if you were the SK, would be to hope you get killed tonight? Oooooooooooooooooohkay!

Did you even read my post? Let's try again. I'm sk. You are scum. Nanook and jedi are town. I get lynched. You kill jedi, town loses. Let's assume that we lynch you. I kill jedi, town loses. Now we lynch jedi. At night, you kill me and I kill you. Town wins. So if I were a sk, the only hope for

the town

to win is that I kill scum and scum kills me. I'd obiously try to get scum anyway (if I were town or sk). Do you understand this now? Or do I have to explain it a third time? If I'm sk, and you lynch me, the town loses. Period.

I used you because you were relentlessly attacking me.

I could say the same thing about the way you were dropping "hints." If you really wanted to drop a hint, you wouldn't have done it like you did. One post would have been enough.

Plus, what the hell made you think that IS was your lover? Please explain. It was day one, as I recall, thus you wouldn't have any real info on him...

And what good do you get from dropping hints anyway? I mean, other than setting up your malicious role claim. You chose to check someone, not the other way around.

Again you used "100%" sure. Damn, you must have some kind of radar. A pretty messed up radar, I might add.

Candice is now dead. Can you point out the three things that made you think that she was a doctor? Or did you forget?

What annoys me the most: you are telling us to ignore all posts by meme, and to not judge you by any of her posts, or the ones made by pwnz. I think that the scum posts are the best evidence we have to workw with other than our own votes.

And you seem to attack me because of something you did too: protecting meme. The only difference is that I acted more confident than you. Hey, you weren't "100% sure," so it's not your fault, right? But today you are. It doesn't matter, because once you lynch me, you, meme and pwnz win, and there's nothing we can do.

PS: I'd be pretty funny if you are actually town, and you lynch me. We would lose, yes, but you are "100% sure" I'm not town. Joke's on you, of course.

You failed to explain why a sk would not kill until night 5, and you also failed to point out any evidence of a sk role. Oh, wait, there is none.

I should have killed you and get meme lynched, at least her arguments make sense.

[MMCL]

1) If you are an SK why do you care if the town loses? Your examples all assume one thing incorrectly... and so the argument is flawed. I'm not scum. Almost like a proof by contradiction...

2) If one post was enough for me to drop a hint - why did I have to drop soooo many hints before anyone even took notice?

3) I thought it was IS because he and MeMe had a discussion where they called each other love and sweetie (if memory serves). I already explained this - didn't I?

4) I didn't know until Candice confirmed it for me - she had no idea I was looking for her. My thought, from the role description given to me was that we were looking for each other.

5) I've got a pretty messed up radar? I was not involved in the rite lynch (GOOD), I was not involved in the pwnz lynch (BAD - BUT I WAS AWAY), I was right about Candice being innocent (GOOD), I was right about IS (GOOD), I was wrong about MeMe (BAD), I was wrong about Tally (BAD) - seems my radar is about 50/50... which I would say could be a lot more messed up.

6) Three things: Candice and you spent a long time discussing doc's and claiming. Her assumptions all along were that there was a Doc. She also mentioned being sick and that she had many, many games of phone tag with the doctor. Further, she went on to explain that "I'm also not sure I'm buying either of their claims. We have a role-blocker, a cop, a replacement, and I'm assuming we have a doc. I find it hard to believe that it seems that most pro-town roles have special abilities. On the other hand, I'm not quite sure I believe that we'd have a rich heiress on a rickety ship like this."
Interestingly, Candice also said this about you: "[YOUR] VEHEMENT defense of MeMe. I can see this, if [you are] in fact innocent and IS was sane. However, at first, [you were] pushing the, "No guilty/innocent result" defense. See Palindrome Mafia. That was the first defense [Candice] put forth for MeMe, who was the godfather in that game (in which I was, in fact, scum as well)."

7) You cannot ask me to answer to something written by another player, especially scum - scum rule by confusion.
I could go back and ask you to account for confirmed innocents proclaiming my innocence throught this game - even Tally thought I was innocent when I had my vote on her yesterday - but she didn't think the same about you, did she? Candice and IS also both made comments that they believed I was innocent as well.

8) I never protected MeMe - I was fooled by her, and attacked Tally. You on the other hand DID protect MeMe. I think it is interesting that you cast yourself in the 'lynch me and lose' position to the town, given the fact that I am innocent, couldn't I say the same? You seem to be too eager in general to get everything out.

9) It's what I would do if I were an SK. Stay low and pick off the weak links by lynching and then confuse the hell out of the town by adding multiple kills. The fact is - and my posts today have all said this - you have me convinced you are some sort of scum regardless... SK or mafia.
Granted - you know convince me that you are more likely to be mafia than SK.. but I still don't trust you. Yaw can be an evil bastard and I don't trust him not to screw with us further.

10) My arguments make perfect sense - it's yours that are missing facts, distorting things and trying to make ME appear worse than I am. Shame on you... if you were a pro-town player, you would look to FACTS not assumptions and speculations - especially at this stage in the game.

Overall, it's curious that you still keep your vote off me. If you are that sure about me, as I am about you, you would vote me. You didn't even answer my questions or come back to the statements I made - just picked the ones you thought you could provide further distortion too... I know the best form of defense is attack but you really are beginning to show yourself for what you are.

The oddest thing about this whole thing is the way you completely spilled everything in desperation, eg "I am a vigi - I killed MeMe". There was no pressure for you to do this, but still you did it... why? If you thought I was scum, why not see how the day played out first then reveal?

Everything I have done and said agrees and tally's up. Can you say the same? Yes, I dropped massive hints about my role - why? Because gagged masons are useless townies. Yes - I fucked up when it comes to Tally/MeMe. As it stands I recieved about 3 messages from Candice before day broke - and I can't even use them to prove my innocence.

I think Nanook is doc, Jedi is confessor, I am Widowed lover, and you STEWIE are SCUM.

I said yesterday I would vote you... I am and I am happy with my vote.

[MMCL]

1) If you are an SK why do you care if the town loses? Your examples all assume one thing incorrectly... and so the argument is flawed. I'm not scum. Almost like a proof by contradiction...

2) If one post was enough for me to drop a hint - why did I have to drop soooo many hints before anyone even took notice?

3) I thought it was IS because he and MeMe had a discussion where they called each other love and sweetie (if memory serves). I already explained this - didn't I?

4) I didn't know until Candice confirmed it for me - she had no idea I was looking for her. My thought, from the role description given to me was that we were looking for each other.

5) I've got a pretty messed up radar? I was not involved in the rite lynch (GOOD), I was not involved in the pwnz lynch (BAD - BUT I WAS AWAY), I was right about Candice being innocent (GOOD), I was right about IS (GOOD), I was wrong about MeMe (BAD), I was wrong about Tally (BAD) - seems my radar is about 50/50... which I would say could be a lot more messed up.

6) Three things: Candice and you spent a long time discussing doc's and claiming. Her assumptions all along were that there was a Doc. She also mentioned being sick and that she had many, many games of phone tag with the doctor. Further, she went on to explain that "I'm also not sure I'm buying either of their claims. We have a role-blocker, a cop, a replacement, and I'm assuming we have a doc. I find it hard to believe that it seems that most pro-town roles have special abilities. On the other hand, I'm not quite sure I believe that we'd have a rich heiress on a rickety ship like this."
Interestingly, Candice also said this about you: "[YOUR] VEHEMENT defense of MeMe. I can see this, if [you are] in fact innocent and IS was sane. However, at first, [you were] pushing the, "No guilty/innocent result" defense. See Palindrome Mafia. That was the first defense [Candice] put forth for MeMe, who was the godfather in that game (in which I was, in fact, scum as well)."

7) You cannot ask me to answer to something written by another player, especially scum - scum rule by confusion.
I could go back and ask you to account for confirmed innocents proclaiming my innocence throught this game - even Tally thought I was innocent when I had my vote on her yesterday - but she didn't think the same about you, did she? Candice and IS also both made comments that they believed I was innocent as well.

8) I never protected MeMe - I was fooled by her, and attacked Tally. You on the other hand DID protect MeMe. I think it is interesting that you cast yourself in the 'lynch me and lose' position to the town, given the fact that I am innocent, couldn't I say the same? You seem to be too eager in general to get everything out.

9) It's what I would do if I were an SK. Stay low and pick off the weak links by lynching and then confuse the hell out of the town by adding multiple kills. The fact is - and my posts today have all said this - you have me convinced you are some sort of scum regardless... SK or mafia.
Granted - you know convince me that you are more likely to be mafia than SK.. but I still don't trust you. Yaw can be an evil bastard and I don't trust him not to screw with us further.

10) My arguments make perfect sense - it's yours that are missing facts, distorting things and trying to make ME appear worse than I am. Shame on you... if you were a pro-town player, you would look to FACTS not assumptions and speculations - especially at this stage in the game.

Overall, it's curious that you still keep your vote off me. If you are that sure about me, as I am about you, you would vote me. You didn't even answer my questions or come back to the statements I made - just picked the ones you thought you could provide further distortion too... I know the best form of defense is attack but you really are beginning to show yourself for what you are.

The oddest thing about this whole thing is the way you completely spilled everything in desperation, eg "I am a vigi - I killed MeMe". There was no pressure for you to do this, but still you did it... why? If you thought I was scum, why not see how the day played out first then reveal?

Everything I have done and said agrees and tally's up. Can you say the same? Yes, I dropped massive hints about my role - why? Because gagged masons are useless townies. Yes - I fucked up when it comes to Tally/MeMe. As it stands I recieved about 3 messages from Candice before day broke - and I can't even use them to prove my innocence.

I think Nanook is doc, Jedi is confessor, I am Widowed lover, and you STEWIE are SCUM.

I said yesterday I would vote you... I am and I am happy with my vote.