Micro 1009: Would You Like To Be My Neighbor? [Game Over!]

[Loki Dokie]

if we're talking meta then scum!hop doesn't spend an hour and a half going through all of this trying to convince you after you've made up your mind. you know i hate scum because i don't enjoy it and every second of playing a scumgame feels like i'm pointlessly wasting my time on something i'm not enjoying. scum!hop just stops posting because he doesn't care enough to put this effort in. alternatively, town!hop always tries to convince you

The only game I’m familiar with scum!you, you weren’t the last scum, so this isn’t reliable. If you’re scum, you’re the last and the wincon DEPENDS on you, so I have no basis of comparison. I just think I have more reasons to tr Emily than you. That’s the problem. I don’t so much sr you as tr Pooky.

I just think that Emily’s hammer makes no sense if she’s scum and Pooky anti-bussing meta just adds to that. I also know that Robert is more of a scummy tryhard as scum and here he’s been making genuine reads, so I don’t just tr Emily/Pooky but Robert as well.

And then there was Pooky’s genuine frustration about my deathtunnelling him. One very reliable Pooky scumtell, is he’s weird, off or emotionally flat. He makes AtE posts without any genuine emotion behind them. Like in a recent scumgame of his, he trotted out 960 which as he accurately described it was “full of AtE and suffering” yet he very clearly wasn’t remotely suffering in that game and was emotionally flat.

Scum!Pooky tries to exhort pity, he doesn’t get pissed like he did in DC. Reread menagerie. His entire ISO is a blatantly cringeworthy appeal to pity.

[Loki Dokie]

which VS game?

FL v Hectic

He made the exact same anti-bussing argument in that.

[Hopkirk]

(Also if you're ignoring the bus pls factor in that i've been playing the same as all the other town games you've seen, not like any of the scumgames you've seen, and that i'm outside of my scumrange too...)

pedit - my recent scumgames are the vs game where you saw i did post for like 100+ pages because i couldn't effort, WSB where i basically didn't play whatsoever, and team mafia where despite it being team mafia and me being the last scum alive, i posted less than i am here

[Hopkirk]

i've made all of my arguments. i've responded to everything in 1500 multiple times before. if none of them swayed you then can you just hammer me now, because otherwise i'll probably waste another few hours tomorrow on this just saying pretty much the same things i've been saying tonight, but just getting more and more frustrated that i don't feel you're engaging with it with any intent to actually take it seriously

the hammer makes tons of sense for scum!Emily because it probably just won her the game. i've explained at least five times, some of them in all caps, why it makes sense and you don't seem to be acknowledging the argument i'm making

Emily doesn't read as emotionally genuine here. it read as a half hearted ATE at the start of the day that they doubled down on when they saw you biting.

[Hopkirk]

so one of you is snowed and the other one is scum.

I won't bother to figure out which one because there's a good chance you both just vote me here.

If you want an actual discussion I'll be happy to entertain you both but as it stands I think town just loses this.

It's probably better for me if you two do quick-elim me because I wouldn't have to agonize over which one of you is actually scum here.

I have a limited amount of time each day and I'm not going to waste time on something that's impossible to do.

I want to hear your case first Emily but I really think everything points to you. I still want to hear your case but barring anything unforeseen happening, I think Vanders’ kill points to you because you knew he was 100% voting you if he lived.

that makes so much sense Loki.

I the lone scum surviving decide to leave alive a neighborhood of two who hard-townread each other to the point of calling themselves a masonry.

because that's totally the way to win the game.

just leave the 2 masons alive to the end.

If you're town and you want to throw by voting for me

you can go ahead and do it.

Don't blame me post game for your own self being pocketed

all of this is literally just a complete appeal to pity

[Hopkirk]

'oh we've lost already, try not to feel bad about being wrong'
'please don't make me agonize'
'this is impossible, you've both decided already'
the moment you bite
'oh thank you so much Loki' (immediately flips from could be either of us to actually it's Hop from the moment you show signs of believing the ATE)
'voting me is throwing'

literally every post at the start of the pay was appeal to pity. there was like 10+ of those. don't say that's a scumtell if you're townreading it?

[Loki Dokie]

(Also if you're ignoring the bus pls factor in that i've been playing the same as all the other town games you've seen, not like any of the scumgames you've seen, and that i'm outside of my scumrange too...)

pedit - my recent scumgames are the vs game where you saw i did post for like 100+ pages because i couldn't effort, WSB where i basically didn't play whatsoever, and team mafia where despite it being team mafia and me being the last scum alive, i posted less than i am here

Like I said, I don’t really sr you as much as I tr Emily/Pooky/Robert. And if you’re last scum, why wouldn’t you put in the effort to try and convince me here when your fate is literally in my hands?

It would be gamethrowing not to. If bugs or Mo was here, it would be different but since I’m in the express position of deciding between two trs, I think I just have more reasons to tr Emily/Pooky/Robert than you.

This isn’t easy for me, considering I spent the entire game lock convinced we were in an unconfirmed masonry and would love nothing more than nuke Pooky scum.

I just really don’t think he is here.

[Hopkirk]

I promise I won't hold it against you if you choose wrong here.

We can even pretend this game never happened

I honestly didn't want to bring my main's meta into this game but some people are very insistent *shrug*

even the latest posts. this is like the 3rd/4th time where they say 'it's ok if you're wrong and vote me, i don't mind'
that's blatant 'feel sorry for me' posting

[Hopkirk]

why wouldn’t you put in the effort to try and convince me here when your fate is literally in my hands?

because i like playing town and care about the result as town and hate playing scum/don't care about the result as scum because mafiascum game design/culture makes scum really shitty/unemployable environment to play scum in

[Loki Dokie]

so one of you is snowed and the other one is scum.

I won't bother to figure out which one because there's a good chance you both just vote me here.

If you want an actual discussion I'll be happy to entertain you both but as it stands I think town just loses this.

It's probably better for me if you two do quick-elim me because I wouldn't have to agonize over which one of you is actually scum here.

I have a limited amount of time each day and I'm not going to waste time on something that's impossible to do.

I want to hear your case first Emily but I really think everything points to you. I still want to hear your case but barring anything unforeseen happening, I think Vanders’ kill points to you because you knew he was 100% voting you if he lived.

that makes so much sense Loki.

I the lone scum surviving decide to leave alive a neighborhood of two who hard-townread each other to the point of calling themselves a masonry.

because that's totally the way to win the game.

just leave the 2 masons alive to the end.

If you're town and you want to throw by voting for me

you can go ahead and do it.

Don't blame me post game for your own self being pocketed

all of this is literally just a complete appeal to pity

Where is the self-pity in any of these?

If you compare Isis’ game and Menagerie, he lays it on extremely thick. If anything this sounds like DC Pooky here.

[Hopkirk]

maybe i should just start saying things like

'oh don't feel bad about being wrong because i don't blame you' and 'voting me is throwing' because apparently that would work

[Hopkirk]

'It's probably better for me if you two do quick-elim me because I wouldn't have to agonize over which one of you is actually scum here.'

this is incredibly blatant self pity for one

[Hopkirk]

as far as i can see your reasons for townreading Pooky/Emily are 90% the hammer.
it did exactly what it was designed to do
i've explained the motive many times and you've accepted it makes sense more than once in other parts of your argument
i've explained why they would bus here
what else can i do if you won't accept this? emily hammered and they won because of it.

[Hopkirk]

can you hammer me now if you've decided?

[Hopkirk]

it feels like you've spent the last two hours telling me i'm scum while not believing it

[Loki Dokie]

I promise I won't hold it against you if you choose wrong here.

We can even pretend this game never happened

I honestly didn't want to bring my main's meta into this game but some people are very insistent *shrug*

even the latest posts. this is like the 3rd/4th time where they say 'it's ok if you're wrong and vote me, i don't mind'
that's blatant 'feel sorry for me' posting

No it isn’t. Scum!Pooky tries to pull at your heartstrings and feel sorry for him. As town, he tends to be extremely sarcastic like his fan fiction club in DC. I was spectating that Isis game and actually got fooled by him trotting out 960 like his favourite purple heart or something but then I reread and realized that he really wasn’t feeling any of the emotions he was claiming. That’s why he needed to trot 960 because he genuinely did suffer in that game but he wasn’t able to actually replicate that suffering in the Isis’ game because of course he wasn’t actually feeling it.

That’s what’s frustrating me with you. It’s almost like we’re no longer reading the same game anymore.

I think if you were town here you wouldn’t be dismissing so many of my takes and instead be arguing why my conclusions are wrong. That’s what I dislike, town!you should be arguing that - the conclusions - not continually dismissing my takes.

[Loki Dokie]

'It's probably better for me if you two do quick-elim me because I wouldn't have to agonize over which one of you is actually scum here.'

this is incredibly blatant self pity for one

It read to me as if he didn’t have a clue which one of us was scum. You reading this as self pity just seems really wrong to me.

[Hopkirk]

I am arguing why your conclusions are wrong. Like I'm clearly arguing that. I'm explaining my takes.
What takes am i dismissing here. Other than 'Pooky would never do x' by providing reasons why he would, mitigating reasons why he wouldn't, and addressing them.
'I guess you guys are just going to mislethal me but don't feel bad about it is objectively trying to make you feel sorry about him.' i don't understand how you can think otherwise? can you explain this if you think this is a point i'm 'dismissing' because this feels wrong based on the literal meaning of the words

[Hopkirk]

Loki do you understand that I know for a fact Emily is scum here? That was a rhetorical question.

It read to me as if he didn’t have a clue which one of us was scum. You reading this as self pity just seems really wrong to me.

This isn't in good faith. If you think I'm dismissing it by proposing an alternative reading then you're going to take anything i say except 'I am scum' as dismissing it.

If town Pooky
- Genuine confusion

If scum Pooky
- Fake ATE
or
- Trying to fake genuine confusion

I've said that i think it's the second one because he'd said beforehand that he thought you were a lot more town and his confusion disappeared the moment you started to show doubt. i explained this. i quoted it. i can't make you read it.
I've also said i think it's the first one because they aren't mutually exclusive

does it seem wrong to you because you think it's coming from town? Then

literally anything i say will sound wrong because i'm saying it's coming from scum

[Loki Dokie]

as far as i can see your reasons for townreading Pooky/Emily are 90% the hammer.
it did exactly what it was designed to do
i've explained the motive many times and you've accepted it makes sense more than once in other parts of your argument
i've explained why they would bus here
what else can i do if you won't accept this? emily hammered and they won because of it.

Again, this is not entirely true. I liked Robert’s posting and I gave other reasons but yes, I tr that hammer before I even had any idea Emily was Pooky and I already explained why.

You have argued - contrary to any available evidence - that Emily was next if she didn’t, also isn’t supported because Vanders only became suspicious of her AFTER that hammer. No one was suspicious of her prior to that. It read to me like Emily wanted to make damn sure Flow was dead and at the time this occurred, really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense if she’s Flow’s buddy. And per your argument, why did she then also quickhammer Mo because she obviously had to know that would look really bad?

You can call it survival but she wouldn’t have forseen at the time you outing her and her being even able to rely on her anti-bussing thing.

I’d need to check but I think you outed her before she did the AtE thing to me about Menagerie.

[Hopkirk]

contrary to any available evidenc

[Hopkirk]

it feels like you're trolling me there

[Hopkirk]

for i think the sixth time

- if Emily did not hammer she would have had to push someone else
- we have established and agreed multiple times that Mo was suspicious for pushing other people over Emily
- from this, if Emily did not hammer and hence pushed other people, that reason for sussing Flow would have also applied to Emily

[Hopkirk]

like you've clearly decided not to bother reading what i'm saying so why am i wasting my time

[Loki Dokie]

Loki do you understand that I know for a fact Emily is scum here? That was a rhetorical question.

It read to me as if he didn’t have a clue which one of us was scum. You reading this as self pity just seems really wrong to me.

This isn't in good faith. If you think I'm dismissing it by proposing an alternative reading then you're going to take anything i say except 'I am scum' as dismissing it.

If town Pooky
- Genuine confusion

If scum Pooky
- Fake ATE
or
- Trying to fake genuine confusion

I've said that i think it's the second one because he'd said beforehand that he thought you were a lot more town and his confusion disappeared the moment you started to show doubt. i explained this. i quoted it. i can't make you read it.
I've also said i think it's the first one because they aren't mutually exclusive

does it seem wrong to you because you think it's coming from town? Then

literally anything i say will sound wrong because i'm saying it's coming from scum

I want to wait for Emily to address all of this. I’m not voting until I hear from her because I will literally kick myself if he’s scum who’s fooled me yet again.

However yes, I think the hammer argument is pretty powerful stuff because he has that history and you made the argument that Vanders had an anti-bussing meta, so why is this relevant for Vanders but not Pooky?