Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[yessiree]

VC 2.12

With 8 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Bambi Jay (3)

- LlamaFluff, RationalMadman, Bambi Jay

LlamaFluff (1)

- Anastasia

Note voting - T-Bone, Kerset, Bingle, VFP

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-02 16:00:00)

[LlamaFluff]

Are you literally ignoring your still 100 percent scum to me because you can't counter that point?

Your death solves the entire game man.

Ah. So you are ignoring the 100% Ana/RM scum (per your logic) and instead going for 100% me scum... which is you are scum would win you the game.

Again... this is scum getting a couple of steps ahead of everything else. I really want to read if this was discussed because its such a bad idea. Pretty much ignores a 100% chance RM/Ana has to be confirmed scum to remove Bambi from the pool. Unless Bambi is basically saying attacking that pair is such a strong town tell that they cant afford them being todays pick.

[T-Bone]

Let me clarify, the self vote to test doesn't change my opinion on either Llama or Bambi at all.
The reactions from others do though.

Tell me what you think.

[Bambi Jay]

Welcome to the crapshow Tbone. What's your opinion on my self vote and my urge to prove what's going on?

[VFP]

If I am scum it suddenly is 100% Ana/RM.

I still don't understand your point here.
Should my pair or Bingles pair only consider Ana/RM as scum here?

I don't see anyone directly arguing you as scum with the other pairs, but the argument that they can be scum. This is 100% correct from either side PoV.
But yes, with what is done, and once T-Bone posts we can safely say that scum you is only scum with RM / Ana.

[VFP]

Right, once I say Tacos in the main thread we hammer, got it scum buddy?

[VFP]

Let me clarify, the self vote to test doesn't change my opinion on either Llama or Bambi at all.
The reactions from others do though.

Tell me what you think.

Personally I think Llama is in panic mode here and trying to de rail any clearings from Bambi.
If we lim scum Llama we just win now. I don't see why Llama worries so much when scum Bambi self voting doesn't lose.us the game.
RM too 9n a small way but not so much.

Also, I had Tacos for dinner!

[LlamaFluff]

If I am scum it suddenly is 100% Ana/RM.

I still don't understand your point here.
Should my pair or Bingles pair only consider Ana/RM as scum here?

I don't see anyone directly arguing you as scum with the other pairs, but the argument that they can be scum. This is 100% correct from either side PoV.
But yes, with what is done, and once T-Bone posts we can safely say that scum you is only scum with RM / Ana.

As there is no hammer there are four pairs

Me + Ana/RM
Bambi + Ana/RM
Bambi + Bingle/Kerset
Bambi + VFP/TBone

The point is as there is no hammer there is a 0% chance that I am scum outside of Ana/RM first being scum. Voting for me is somewhere between a game throw and scum claim.

It doesnt matter who is scum with Bambi, but they have proven that if Ana/RM is not scum I am confirmed town.

[VFP]

I don't think Bingle scum worries about Bambi self voting there as it favours them, so asking for the unvote is town credit.

[LlamaFluff]

I don't think Bingle scum worries about Bambi self voting there as it favours them, so asking for the unvote is town credit.

All I care about right now is that it proves I am town, and my mind is now stuck on if Bambi actually ran this past their partners.

[VFP]

As there is no hammer there are four pairs

Me + Ana/RM
Bambi + Ana/RM
Bambi + Bingle/Kerset
Bambi + VFP/TBone

The point is as there is no hammer there is a 0% chance that I am scum outside of Ana/RM first being scum. Voting for me is somewhere between a game throw and scum claim.

It doesnt matter who is scum with Bambi, but they have proven that if Ana/RM is not scum I am confirmed town.

Okay. So how do we prove RM/Ana are town without losing the game?
This just means RM and Ana have to both vote Bambi and this all favours you.

[VFP]

I don't think Bingle scum worries about Bambi self voting there as it favours them, so asking for the unvote is town credit.

All I care about right now is that it proves I am town, and my mind is now stuck on if Bambi actually ran this past their partners.

But it doesn't prove you as town.

[LlamaFluff]

As there is no hammer there are four pairs

Me + Ana/RM
Bambi + Ana/RM
Bambi + Bingle/Kerset
Bambi + VFP/TBone

The point is as there is no hammer there is a 0% chance that I am scum outside of Ana/RM first being scum. Voting for me is somewhere between a game throw and scum claim.

It doesnt matter who is scum with Bambi, but they have proven that if Ana/RM is not scum I am confirmed town.

Okay. So how do we prove RM/Ana are town without losing the game?
This just means RM and Ana have to both vote Bambi and this all favours you.

Nope. This just proves that the vote is RM/Ana (if you think I am scum - leaves Bambi/Me) or Bambi is scum (If you think I am town - Leaves all of lover pairs).

[VFP]

Nope. This just proves that the vote is RM/Ana (if you think I am scum - leaves Bambi/Me) or Bambi is scum (If you think I am town - Leaves all of lover pairs).

Okay?
But what is the aim here?

I have already said a number of times I agree here.
What is it that I should be doing with the information I just received from Bambi's self vote?

If I think you are scum, why would I vote RM/Ana here?

[VFP]

Actually I see what you're saying.

[VFP]

So we lim in your and Bambi it's a 50/50
And in that 50/50, voting RM / Ana is then a 100 by 50/50 meaning that if we are wrong on you, we still go the same route but the chances of getting scum is actually increased.
But that's more only if we decide to lim you.

My apologies I didn't see what you were saying at first.

[LlamaFluff]

This setup is still a complete dumpster fire that I think if town wins more than 30% of the time is impressive, but Bambi just gave me the worst possible thing as scum, pure logic to stave off a town loss. Town now is back around 50/50... if they lurked out I think scum won this one. I break setups. Thats my special talent (even if apparently people have forgotten optimization breaks by reading games) as thats what I like to do.

Nope. This just proves that the vote is RM/Ana (if you think I am scum - leaves Bambi/Me) or Bambi is scum (If you think I am town - Leaves all of lover pairs).

Okay?
But what is the aim here?

I have already said a number of times I agree here.
What is it that I should be doing with the information I just received from Bambi's self vote?

If I think you are scum, why would I vote RM/Ana here?

So you wouldnt vote RM/Ana in a scenario where under the assumption that there is a 100% scenario to you that they are scum... while if I am town its infinitely less because... ????

There is *no* world where I am scum to you if you are town where I exist without RM/Ana being scum. There *is* a scenario where RM/Ana are scum with Bambi. You are trying to solve a If X than Y by saying Y is true so X must be, which is flawed. Its not me or Bambi to you, its Bambi or RM/Ana

[LlamaFluff]

We got people understanding... lets keep this moving. Im hoping scum just didnt read this right and are now lost. Time to apply pressure. RM/Ana at this point basically have me as confirmed town. Lets capitalize and make scum flinch.

[VFP]

So you wouldnt vote RM/Ana in a scenario where under the assumption that there is a 100% scenario to you that they are scum... while if I am town its infinitely less because... ????

I already saw my mistake and I agree with this.
It means lim you is 50% right
Lim RM / Ana is 75% right

Or something along those lines.

[LlamaFluff]

So you wouldnt vote RM/Ana in a scenario where under the assumption that there is a 100% scenario to you that they are scum... while if I am town its infinitely less because... ????

I already saw my mistake and I agree with this.
It means lim you is 50% right
Lim RM / Ana is 75% right

Or something along those lines.

I think the better way is to look at Bambi.

Bambi cant be scum with:

Me (duh)
VFP/Tbone (Game would be over)
Bingle/Kerset (Game would be over)

So Bambi is 100% scum

It just depends with who.

I give all the credit to them for trying a gambit, but when its a logic puzzle... the ex-open queue list mod is a horrible person to play it off against.

[VFP]

Thought on this T-Bone?

And yes, town Bambi should always want RM / Ana as the lim here.

[LlamaFluff]

*Cant be town with.

Same process. If Bambi was town Bambi would be dead already unless its RM/Ana... so I turn into the confirmed town. Which I absolutely hate... but why not have a setup I didnt like just spite me because spite.

[Bambi Jay]

It's 100% from my perspective but not theirs bro. For Bingle I could be with Tbone or vice Versa.

You as town Llama should still not think RM/Ana is 100 tho. Sure as scum this saves you and you can 1v1 me another day, but town you shouldn't be 100 certain I'm not scum with the other lovers. Why would town you be so certain on them?

[VFP]

*Cant be town with.

Same process. If Bambi was town Bambi would be dead already unless its RM/Ana... so I turn into the confirmed town. Which I absolutely hate... but why not have a setup I didnt like just spite me because spite.

You nearly frazzled my tiny brain trying to think that.

[LlamaFluff]

I need to think about other pairs... going into today I was around (just spitballing)

50% TBone/VFP
40% Bingle/Kerset
10% Rm/Ana

Will probably lean heavily on others reads because of again what I see as a bad flaw in this setup.

@Bambi - Please explain how I can possibly be town with Ana/RM as town.