Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[Save The Dragons]

i think i gave you a hint there

More like you bashed me over the head with it

But yes, what Shea said, everyone is going to soft and hint because you can easily claim something useful if anyone ever calls your bluff. Same logic for why I still pushed Bingle.

it's fair to say this but doesn't change the fact i don't want to be wagoned for that reason

Do you think you're actually the LHF that scum would target? Seems to me there are wagons on other LHF that scum could easily get behind, so from your POV I would expect you to think a) that the people who are LHF that are being wagoned are more likely to be scum and b) the people attacking you are their buddies or more likely to be town.

I haven't really seen any evidence of either thought process from you which is my big problem with this line of argument from you.

i see what you're saying here, for me the explanation for why these ideas are missing from STD could be scum or it could be STD is disengaged/overextended as he's claimed, which is why i was trying to get him to talk about his reads. it doesn't seem like that's going to happen at this very moment, though.

guillotina is town
morph is town
i think titus is town
toog is probably town but i'm not sure where his hard-on for me comes from

sigmund is scum
shea is looking scummier to me by the minute

anything deeper than that will have to wait

[Thestatusquo]

shea i have 4 different people asking me things, i'm overextended, i missed a couple pages of this game, and i'm busy at work i don't have time for deep diving atm

this is also a weird response because I didn't ask you anything? I'm just talking about things you've done this game? I'm sorry you're overextended but thats not going to stop me from pushing on you if I think you're scum?

i feel like if you're town you've confbiased me as scum so it probably didn't matter what i said but i'm not sure this push is genuine

you seemed to ask why i didn't find other LHF as scum or why their attackers are buddies or town. i don't understand the logic there you'll have to ELI5 me

There are LHF that are being wagonned already. The push on you came after those wagons. If scum are just looking for LHF why would they choose you instead of the LHF that is much more likely to result in an elimination because they already have a ton of votes?

Why would scum try to create a wagon on you, out of nowhere, if they were just looking for LHF given the above facts?

The thing I would expect town to think about in that scenario is "ok if the players attacking me don't want to go for the other LHF wagons that tells me something both about these wagons and the players attacking me."

The conclusions I would draw from your PoV if you are town are that that set of facts implies the things I mentioned.

Your analysis stops at "I am being attacked. I am LHF. Therefore the people attacking me are more likely to be scum." and that doesn't seem like where a townie actually trying to figure out the alignment of people in the game would stop. That seems like where the logic of scum trying to discredit their attackers would stop.

[morph the cat]

Sidebar: Can everyone involved define their "LHF" list in their next post?

[morph the cat]

Chara, I don't think either of us has responded to your comment about Ircher's potential perspective slip with notsci.

I see your point.

Also, kinda liking STD this morning.

I'm disorganized today (and probably for a few days). My grandma's in the hospital after a fall, and looks like she's developed heart failure in the last couple months. Lots of phone calls and emails to keep up with and some travel decisions to work out.

~spay

[Chara]

I responded at the time that it doesn't make a lot of sense for STD to suspect me for that interaction. It seemed forced and a knee jerk defense. There are a couple of possibilities there but the two main ones are "I know sigmund is scum and I want to distance" and "I know STD is scum and don't want to talk about my buddy"

In terms of things scum actually do the latter is MUCH more common than the former and STD should obviously know its not true as either alignment. Accusing me of the first is kind of weird because it implies I need to make up things to attack my buddies for AND it implies that I would not attack another player who is town who I had previously been scum reading. If you think I'm scum there there's really no reason for me to just attack them both. It's just a surface level approach to the game and demonstrates a lack of real thought about what the things he's attacking people for mean.

Which is the same thing I'm seeing in this discussion about whether he's LHF. I would expect town!STD to draw conclusions from the discussion here and he's not showing any understanding of what the implications of him being attacked in the face of other LHF wagons are.

I'm not trying to BoP STD but he's been around a long time and I think that a town version would just display fundamentally more curiosity about what these things mean rather than just looking for things to push back against which seems to be what he's doing.

This was hell to type on a phone but its really important.

i think you're logically in the right here.

but from STD's pov, i don't think he's ever going to consider the scenario where scum shea avoids talking about his partner. because STD isn't scum from his pov. so instead what he sees is the player he scumreads (Sigmund) treated differently from himself (STD), and wonders why that is.

but you're looking at this with a different logical order. STD didn't start from "shea is scum, now how is he treating STD vs. Sigmund", he started from Sigmund is scum, and shea treated him differently from how he treated me.

and that tracks with STD's post of "if Sigmund flips scum, shea should also be scum", because STD is starting from Sigmund scum, as that's the scumread STD had first and that seems to be stronger.

this was also really hard to type out and i'm not great at following the logical steps but i hope it makes sense.

[Toogeloo]

Also, kinda liking STD this morning.

Probably because they have posted the same or more today than the rest of the game combined.

[Save The Dragons]

white fire is town too

[Save The Dragons]

lld is town too

[Thestatusquo]

LHF is

2. Dunnstral
3. Save the Dragons
4. White Fire (Shiro/Firebringer)
6. Ircher
8. Sigmund
12. NDMath
15. Anya
18. Flea the Magician
21. MURDERCAT
24. Something_Smart

Wow thats actually a huge list now that I actually stop and think about every slot.

[Chara]

Your analysis stops at "I am being attacked. I am LHF. Therefore the people attacking me are more likely to be scum." and that doesn't seem like where a townie actually trying to figure out the alignment of people in the game would stop. That seems like where the logic of scum trying to discredit their attackers would stop.

i'm not seeing where STD argued that the players pushing him are more likely to be scum. he brought the idea up of wanting others to sort through whether they are genuine scumreads or going after LHF.

[Thestatusquo]

So what is the implication of that statement?

[Chara]

LHF is

2. Dunnstral
3. Save the Dragons
4. White Fire (Shiro/Firebringer)
6. Ircher
8. Sigmund
12. NDMath
15. Anya
18. Flea the Magician
21. MURDERCAT
24. Something_Smart

Wow thats actually a huge list now that I actually stop and think about every slot.

i don't think White Fire or SS are LHF at all. i would also say Flea isn't really.

[Toogeloo]

From my experience in almost every game I've played with Flea, fae are the epitome of LHF.

[morph the cat]

It's interesting to get definitions out there.


I think our (morph's) LHF list is much smaller, so.

[Something_Smart]

I have no idea if I am LHF.

It varies from game to game and I am bad at judging other people's perceptions of me.

[MURDERCAT]

This would be my LHF list

Sigmund
NDMath
WhemeStar
Guillotina
Flea the Magician

[Chara]

So what is the implication of that statement?

i'm arguing that STD's analysis stopped before he even got to the part of accusing specific players or even that the wagon on him was attractive to scum.

and i think representing STD's stance that the wagon on him doesn't have a lot of substance and is attacking a LHF/low/disengaged poster as saying that he is saying the players attacking him are more likely scum is incorrect. whatever it implies, it's not what STD is saying. very explicitly he said he wanted others to think about why he is being pushed, and that he doesn't have the time to read into anything deeper at this moment.

you presenting this as the end of STD's analysis when STD has claimed to be busy and so he hasn't finished analyzing anything does strike me as a misrepresentation.

i'm not saying it's a scummy misrep, but it does seem like there is a readily available explanation for why STD's analysis has not gone as far or as deep as you'd like.

[MURDERCAT]

(LHF can just be scum too, so don't mistake the list for me saying all these people are town. I just think all these people are playing in a way that makes them easier to push.)

[Sigmund]

sigmund is scum

Why?

All I see is you talking shit about Shea

[Chara]

This would be my LHF list

Sigmund
NDMath
WhemeStar
Guillotina
Flea the Magician

i could agree with this list. in a cosmic sort of way.

actually it's interesting Wheme didn't make it onto shea's list.

[Save The Dragons]

sigmund is scum

Why?

All I see is you talking shit about Shea

what have you done all game

[Sigmund]

are you going to give me an actual reason or just avoid the question

[Save The Dragons]

i can give reasons later

[Sigmund]

so your read isnt even real

[Save The Dragons]

it boils down to

you haven't done anything
my gut says it's you