Open 814: CultD3 CULT WINS

[Korina]

VOTE COUNT 1.4

T3 (3, E-2!):

Major Minor, Marky Mark, InsidiousLemons

Flea The Magician (1):

Enchant

Raya36 (1):

Flea The Magician

Enchant (1):

Umlaut

InsidiousLemons (0):

osuka (0):

Major Minor (0):

Marky Mark (0):

Umlaut (0):

Not Voting (3):

Raya36, osuka, T3

With

9

votes in play, it takes

5

of them to yeet somebody.

(expired on 2021-06-14 09:25:00) remain in the day.

Mod Notes

:
- Korina is V/LA on weekends. Please direct questions at that time to my Discord (Korina#0359)
- Maruchan is my co-mod.
-

Pronoun Key

Korina - They/Them
Maruchan - She/Her
Flea The Magician - Fae/Faer or They/Them
Raya36 - She/Her
Enchant - Please set preferred pronouns in user control panel.
Major Minor - He/Him
Marky Marky - He/Him
T3 - He/Him
Umlaut - He/Him
osuka - He/Him
InsidiousLemons - Any Pronouns

[osuka]

before i start catching up i just want to say that this dogshit pseudo-meta talk about whether or not whoever confirmed whatever the fuck role PM before or after they saw a role or didn't or whatever else is among the dumbest, most brain dead, shit-tier fucking dumpster fire conversation i have ever seen in my life

if you gave me a fucking lobotomy i'd lose less brain cells than i did reading through that trash

[osuka]

Anyone else is ??? and needs to do something.

You could start by answering my post addressed to you!

Am lowkey sus of this slot - posts in the thread to refute criticism but doesn't add anything about the wider game or ask any new questions.

this is a dogshit post

he's putting pressure on a slot that didn't answer his question and that is objectively a good thing

Pipe down - yes, there's nothing wrong with following up on a question (in fact, it's actually towny), but when that is literally all the slot had done at that point it feels like hiding in plain sight

this is contradictory

a slot cannot by definition _only_ follow up to a question they asked, because they can't follow up to a question they didn't ask. it follows, then, that they asked a question, which is something

why are you misrepresenting the slot's contributions?

[osuka]

osuka tone is towny to me by meta. I've only played games with him as scum so not totally sure.

???????????

how could the two ever possibly go together?

[Maruchan]

prod dodge at "request" of players

[Enchant]

Problem with this game is cult leader. We can murder one cultist per day and still lose, simple because of spamming cultists.

That's reason why i want to see early accusations, because cult leader NEED something to cover self up. That's same with mafia who always bus self not actively for distancing. But here, leader could and probably should hardbus cultists (he always can get more).

Would cult risk to softbus leader, like mafia do? I think yes. That's reason why i suspect Lemons who you already townread and, surprising, osuka who... No comments, you already see that.
T3 is probably not Cult, because when i was mafia with him in other game, first thing he do is trying to kill teammate for townpoints and get murdered, idk if he changed his atlitude, but it's not like he actively accuse someone.
Flea is dangerous, i can't predict.
About others i have nothing to say.

Would cult not bus? Well. Yes. But i somehow believe they do.


Ergo,

we can win only by randomlynch and hoping we cover Cult Leader with it

. Why this is striked, that's truth. Sad, but true, go use your SCUMREADING powers or something, because not sure how to win this otherwise, but i think Lemons/osuka is best pet here.

[Flea The Magician]

I'm not sure what someone's "normal range" is. I was asked to point to other people who had produced similarly low levels of content as me at the time I was criticized for not contributing other content. I was not asking you to give me a meta read on anybody. When I asked questions, I was blasted for asking questions and then asking for follow up when my questions were ignored. When I was asked to point to other slots that were inactive, I get told I should be asking questions instead. Seems I'm trapped in a "damned if you do" situation, aren't I?

Feels rather disingenuous on your part, tbh.

Part and parcel of mafia, if you're on the watch list you're damned either way.
I was looking at your posts out of context at the time and that's what I got.

You also missed the bit where I asked if you got any reads from it.

before i start catching up i just want to say that this dogshit pseudo-meta talk about whether or not whoever confirmed whatever the fuck role PM before or after they saw a role or didn't or whatever else is among the dumbest, most brain dead, shit-tier fucking dumpster fire conversation i have ever seen in my life

if you gave me a fucking lobotomy i'd lose less brain cells than i did reading through that trash

Then contribute, it is a shitty ass case but it was an RVS breaker and I'm happy with what I got for it.

Problem with this game is cult leader. We can murder one cultist per day and still lose, simple because of spamming cultists.

That's reason why i want to see early accusations, because cult leader NEED something to cover self up. That's same with mafia who always bus self not actively for distancing. But here, leader could and probably should hardbus cultists (he always can get more).

Would cult risk to softbus leader, like mafia do? I think yes. That's reason why i suspect Lemons who you already townread and, surprising, osuka who... No comments, you already see that.
T3 is probably not Cult, because when i was mafia with him in other game, first thing he do is trying to kill teammate for townpoints and get murdered, idk if he changed his atlitude, but it's not like he actively accuse someone.
Flea is dangerous, i can't predict.
About others i have nothing to say.

Would cult not bus? Well. Yes. But i somehow believe they do.


Ergo,

we can win only by randomlynch and hoping we cover Cult Leader with it

. Why this is striked, that's truth. Sad, but true, go use your SCUMREADING powers or something, because not sure how to win this otherwise, but i think Lemons/osuka is best pet here.

Are you setup fishing Enchant? Like genuinely this feels like it's meant to subtly extract information and this is why I fear your scumgame...

[T3]

osuka tone is towny to me by meta. I've only played games with him as scum so not totally sure.

???????????

how could the two ever possibly go together?

Because your tone is different to me.

[Enchant]

What information i extract and what information cult need? They already know setup have strictly 3 options.

[Flea The Magician]

Assuming Setup A, these are the potential setups.

A1: Cult Leader, Cult Roleblocker vs. Town Cop, Town Rolestopper, 5x Vanilla Townie
A2: Cult Leader, Cult Roleblocker vs. Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, 5x Vanilla Townie
A3: Cult Leader, Cult Roleblocker vs. 2x Unrecruitable Townie, 5x Vanilla Townie

A3 is IMO a lot more dangerous for the cult as it means they have a chance of failing to recruit and if they can't get those 2 players eliminated, they're a lil bit stuffed.

A2 forms a middle ground, Tracker can get a false positive from the Jailkeeper, Jailkeeper can stop the tracker tracking.

A1 is Easy mode imo. Cop shouldn't claim at all, crumbs appreciated mind. Also at risk of the rolestopper blocking the cop but incredibly unlikely to hit anything solid.

Especially as we only get 1 flip every 2 phases. Town has less information to work with. It kinda feels like you're wanting someone to TMI their PR or otherwise convince you that you're wrong. Which, you are btw. The big difficulty for town here, is that we need to reset our reads every day.

[Enchant]

Sorry, but believing jailkeeper or rolestopper can stop convert is..

Uuuh. How good are docs and jailkeepers? Unless we have unrecruitable townies, it's safe to assume cult always convert someone, and game will turn in chaos mess on day 2 already.

[Major Minor]

Part and parcel of mafia, if you're on the watch list you're damned either way.
I was looking at your posts out of context at the time and that's what I got.

You also missed the bit where I asked if you got any reads from it.

And you... literally didn't read the end of the very post you quoted where I gave reads?

VOTE: Flea

Do better.

[InsidiousLemons]

Would cult risk to softbus leader, like mafia do? I think yes. That's reason why i suspect Lemons who you already townread

you're the second person to call this a softbus and i'm curious as to why you think that.

If Flea is town, I could see Lemons being cult... but if Flea is cult, I don't believe Lemons is likely to be a buddy, as that is a wild Day 1 soft-bus to start the game with. Some of their play I see as downplaying Flea's theory aggressively.

same question to you, major -- what makes flea's accusation/rvs breaker so wild?

Assuming Setup A,

why do you assume this? the analyses you make of each potential setup aren't observations that can be generalized to templates B and C. also, it's funny that you accuse enchant of setup fishing, then turn around and ask for cop crumbs.

[Enchant]

After this talk i just realised.

Maybe it's not bad idea to reveal Unrecruitable townies right now, so they couldn't get CCed later by Cult when they have numbers (and they will have with high chance)?

While it denies power they have, they will not be counterclaimed (unless by cult PR/Cult Leader who is insane enough). It actually nets us with 2/6 chances to hit cult and 1/6 to find Cult Leader (from VT perspective).

What you think?

[Umlaut]

Lol did MM actually include the co-mod on his list of suspects? Can't believe I missed that, it's self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing if ever I saw it.

VOTE: Major Minor

Let's murder us a cultist, folks.

I still think Enchant's insistence on that particular question of "how did Flea know" is weird but pretty much agree with Raya in 128. MM is way worse,

(Incidentally, having played with Raya before, I regard mindmelding with her as a significant towntell)

[InsidiousLemons]

Sorry, but believing jailkeeper or rolestopper can stop convert is..

Uuuh. How good are docs and jailkeepers? Unless we have unrecruitable townies, it's safe to assume cult always convert someone, and game will turn in chaos mess on day 2 already.

but... they

can

stop a conversion. what are you saying??

Jailkeeper

Open 814: CultD3

Welcome, [Player Name]! You are a

Jailkeeper

, and aligned with

The Town

.

Abilities:
~ Each night, you may jail a player in the game, simultaneously protecting them from recruitment and roleblocking them.

Victory Condition:
~ You, and the

Town

win once

all threats to the

Town

are eliminated, and at least one

Pro-Town

player is still alive.

Please confirm you have read your role-card by

submitting your role-name and alignment.

Rolestopper

Open 814: CultD3

Welcome, [Player Name]! You are a

Rolestopper

, and aligned with

The Town

.

Abilities:
~ Each night phase, you may target another player in the game to attempt to prevent all other night actions from affecting your target.

Victory Condition:
~ You, and the

Town

win once

all threats to the

Town

are eliminated, and at least one

Pro-Town

player is still alive.

Please confirm you have read your role-card by

submitting your role-name and alignment.

[InsidiousLemons]

After this talk i just realised.

Maybe it's not bad idea to reveal Unrecruitable townies right now, so they couldn't get CCed later by Cult when they have numbers (and they will have with high chance)?

While it denies power they have, they will not be counterclaimed (unless by cult PR/Cult Leader who is insane enough). It actually nets us with 2/6 chances to hit cult and 1/6 to find Cult Leader (from VT perspective).

What you think?

No™

[Enchant]

I know they can.

I don't believe they do it.

[InsidiousLemons]

Lol did MM actually include the co-mod on his list of suspects? Can't believe I missed that, it's self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing if ever I saw it.

it also indicates to me that "other people had done less than me" was a defensive, retroactive assumption that he then had to go back and look for reasons to believe, rather than something he had already observed and decided to point out after the fact. for someone who literally didn't even have a single vote on him, he had a pretty extreme reaction to getting pushed.

i'm comfortable with this.

VOTE: Major Minor

p-edit: i don't think i understand. do you mean you don't think it's likely those PRs will actually choose the right person to target in order to stop a conversion? that is probably true, but those PRs still have value in that they can prove with relative certainty that a particular player was not converted on a given night.

[Major Minor]

same question to you, major -- what makes flea's accusation/rvs breaker so wild?

It just seems like doing that to a buddy is a high risk low reward play given this setup, and Flea seems competent/smart enough not to make it.

After this talk i just realised.

Maybe it's not bad idea to reveal Unrecruitable townies right now, so they couldn't get CCed later by Cult when they have numbers (and they will have with high chance)?

While it denies power they have, they will not be counterclaimed (unless by cult PR/Cult Leader who is insane enough). It actually nets us with 2/6 chances to hit cult and 1/6 to find Cult Leader (from VT perspective).

What you think?

Hmm. My initial gut instinct is "no, don't do this" but I think that's just a lot of "don't open claim Day 1" best practice built into my head. In this setup, I'm not sure 1/3 chance to hit cult is really THAT much better than the 2/9 chance we have right now?

[Major Minor]

Lol did MM actually include the co-mod on his list of suspects? Can't believe I missed that, it's self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing if ever I saw it.

VOTE: Major Minor

Let's murder us a cultist, folks.

Hmmm.

Why is that more likely to come from scum than town, exactly?

Lol did MM actually include the co-mod on his list of suspects? Can't believe I missed that, it's self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing if ever I saw it.

it also indicates to me that "other people had done less than me" was a defensive, retroactive assumption that he then had to go back and look for reasons to believe, rather than something he had already observed and decided to point out after the fact. for someone who literally didn't even have a single vote on him, he had a pretty extreme reaction to getting pushed.

i'm comfortable with this.

VOTE: Major Minor

Same question to you.

When I made that accusation, I was actually *specifically* recalling that Maruchan post as just a prod-dodge type thing. I went back to look for it, then saw there were others that could fit the same description I gave.

I'm not sure I follow the pattern here. I think a vote on me for accidentally including a co-mod in my post is one that looks "strong enough" on paper to let scum sit on a miselimination wagon, but if you apply actual scrutiny to it, doesn't hold up to pressure.

I was under attack for not doing much, which I found to be interesting, since there were people who had done less than me. Not knowing anyone in the game, am I supposed to be able to pitch-perfect recall every post someone made and when they made it and how that timing coincides with when I had posted (vs when I had just skimmed to check in but not posted)? Of course not, that's an asinine assumption. Of course, I am going to go back and reread -- it was only six pages, after all. I don't think the behavior the two of you are describing is *actually* scum-indicative in any way, even in the least charitable reading.

[Enchant]

Main idea in avoiding situation with 4 PR claims on Day 2 (Two Cult and Two Town UnRecruitable), because it's really bad position, where we need:
1. Argue would CL risk will be in these group of PR
2. If so, who could be it around PR
3. If not, same, but with VTs

Instead of 2 confirmed towns, we get some insane games with wine.

As told before, cult can regenerate members, so i expect suicidal games. They literally lose nothing from it.

[Umlaut]

Lol did MM actually include the co-mod on his list of suspects? Can't believe I missed that, it's self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing if ever I saw it.

VOTE: Major Minor

Let's murder us a cultist, folks.

Hmmm.

Why is that more likely to come from scum than town, exactly?

Why is self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing more likely to come from scum than town? Is that your question?

Because scum just want anyone yeeted but them, and town have higher priorities.

[Umlaut]

Incidentally, my day one accuracy in catching scum has been absolutely stellar as of late so I think I'm going to finally develop that infamous MafiaScum ego and declare unilaterally that everyone with a green role PM should sheep me if they like winning.

[InsidiousLemons]

same question to you, major -- what makes flea's accusation/rvs breaker so wild?

It just seems like doing that to a buddy is a high risk low reward play given this setup, and Flea seems competent/smart enough not to make it.

how is pushing a delayed role PM confirmation on page 1 high risk? i don't see how that play is any more likely to be a soft-bus than it is to be an attempt at distancing, and i don't think either of those possibilities would seem as likely (even from a neutral perspective) as flea just genuinely trying to get us out of RVS.