Open 814: CultD3 CULT WINS

[Flea The Magician]

Part and parcel of mafia, if you're on the watch list you're damned either way.
I was looking at your posts out of context at the time and that's what I got.

You also missed the bit where I asked if you got any reads from it.

And you... literally didn't read the end of the very post you quoted where I gave reads?

VOTE: Flea

Do better.

You first.

[Flea The Magician]

ftr I asked for reads, not associations

[Flea The Magician]

also, it's funny that you accuse enchant of setup fishing, then turn around and ask for cop crumbs.

Cop should always crumb results. No brainer.
Addressing 1 out of 5 potential PRs is a lil specific, dont' ya think.

I can go through all the setup variations but it results in about the same for each just shuffled slightly.

[Flea The Magician]

MM do we know you at all btw? You seem to have made a few assumptions about us and we're curious if we've played previously or if you just read our meta.

No intrest in alt hunting btw, if you've used alts with us.

[Enchant]

Cop should crumb results for what?

[InsidiousLemons]

also, it's funny that you accuse enchant of setup fishing, then turn around and ask for cop crumbs.

Cop should always crumb results. No brainer.
Addressing 1 out of 5 potential PRs is a lil specific, dont' ya think.

I can go through all the setup variations but it results in about the same for each just shuffled slightly.

if it's such a no brainer then why mention it?

and yes, addressing 1 out of 5 possible PRs

is

a little specific. so why do you only ask the cop to crumb, especially if it's the obvious play in your mind? shouldn't a tracker crumb their targets/results rather than claiming outright as well? shouldn't a jailkeeper or rolestopper?

[InsidiousLemons]

also: you're using we/us as personal pronouns, yes? or are you a hydra or something?

[Flea The Magician]

TL;DR is we got OSDD, multiple people, 1 body, and we got shared memory so good times. We/us is referring to the system. So kinda yeah to both - More into in our GTKAS.

Every PR should be at minimum leaving a crumb for who their targets are. Right now, its towards your wincon. Cop is the main one who can hard clear a player.

Cops can hard clear for 1 phase and also hard guilty. Cop should never freaking claim ftr. I don't care if you're 1 from yeet and intent has been declared, you don't claim. Guilty crumbs are freaking vital if you're yeeted.

Trackers can false-positive. Crumb but never claim. This is frikken vital on positives, honestly.

Jailkeepers, role stoppers don't know if they're successful. Crumbs helpful maybe for progress tracking.

Unconvertable get no results so no need to worry. a crumb is helpful for later maybe to self-confirm.

[Enchant]

Probably i can't understand something.

But did you propose plan where PR should let lynch self, but not reveal at all costs?
It's idiocy. Even if they can be converted. Why the fuck, we can lynch cult leader instead and win, and claimed PR not like be Cult Leader (unless...)

[Major Minor]

Lol did MM actually include the co-mod on his list of suspects? Can't believe I missed that, it's self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing if ever I saw it.

VOTE: Major Minor

Let's murder us a cultist, folks.

Hmmm.

Why is that more likely to come from scum than town, exactly?

Why is self-defensive "please yeet anyone but me" finger-pointing more likely to come from scum than town? Is that your question?

Because scum just want anyone yeeted but them, and town have higher priorities.

Don't town also have an imperative to deflate any shitty wagons on them to avoid town wasting an elimination?

But no, my question is, why would me accidentally including Maruchan be more indicative of scum than town.

Incidentally, my day one accuracy in catching scum has been absolutely stellar as of late so I think I'm going to finally develop that infamous MafiaScum ego and declare unilaterally that everyone with a green role PM should sheep me if they like winning.

Oh darling, I have such bad news for you.

same question to you, major -- what makes flea's accusation/rvs breaker so wild?

It just seems like doing that to a buddy is a high risk low reward play given this setup, and Flea seems competent/smart enough not to make it.

how is pushing a delayed role PM confirmation on page 1 high risk? i don't see how that play is any more likely to be a soft-bus than it is to be an attempt at distancing, and i don't think either of those possibilities would seem as likely (even from a neutral perspective) as flea just genuinely trying to get us out of RVS.

MM do we know you at all btw? You seem to have made a few assumptions about us and we're curious if we've played previously or if you just read our meta.

No intrest in alt hunting btw, if you've used alts with us.

No, I don't have any experience with anybody in this game.

[Flea The Magician]

Probably i can't understand something.

But did you propose plan where PR should let lynch self, but not reveal at all costs?
It's idiocy. Even if they can be converted. Why the fuck, we can lynch cult leader instead and win, and claimed PR not like be Cult Leader (unless...)

OK so...

Cop has been recruited. Is at E-1, claims

Cop claims, is let off, go chase a false lead or allowed to deepwolf a little. Nobody looks there again.

Cop has not been recruited, claims

You need to fully drop your investigations there and then because you're getting recruited and then it becomes against your wincon to true claim.

Cop has been recruited, is at E-1, doesn't claim

Is eliminated, we know to look for crumbs to find guilties. bit if wine involved.

Cop hasn't been recruited, is at E-1, doesn't claim

We get an accurate flip and get to crumb hunt for guilties without WIFOM

Situation 4 is ideal from my perspective.

[Flea The Magician]

This applies to tracker too, but a little more thinking required.

This is even assuming a cop is in the setup.

[Enchant]

How you tell apart simple cultist from cultist-cop?

Or do converted remain their powerrole and flip as some "Cult Cop"? I think it simple "Cultist".

[Marky Mark]

Evening all, just reading up

[Marky Mark]

before i start catching up i just want to say that this dogshit pseudo-meta talk about whether or not whoever confirmed whatever the fuck role PM before or after they saw a role or didn't or whatever else is among the dumbest, most brain dead, shit-tier fucking dumpster fire conversation i have ever seen in my life

if you gave me a fucking lobotomy i'd lose less brain cells than i did reading through that trash

Let's start here with a side note. Can we tone the explicit/aggressive language down a bit please? It's supposed to be a game

[Marky Mark]

There are other slots who had done less (and have still done less) and yet you're not applying the same scrutiny to them yet. Strange.

This really felt like you were trying to shade me here and accuse me of being disingenuous. Yet, when I replied to you in near real time, there was a significant pause before then you came up with 2 slots that I would argue had been notably more active than you at that point in the game and the backup mod.

If I genuinely felt like another player was singling me out, I would call them out based on their behaviours, but here it feels like you had to retrospectively find a justification for your accusation against me when I called you out on it.

[Marky Mark]

this is contradictory

a slot cannot by definition _only_ follow up to a question they asked, because they can't follow up to a question they didn't ask. it follows, then, that they asked a question, which is something

why are you misrepresenting the slot's contributions?

My point was that the slot had not made any effort to do anything else at all other than wait for the answer to their question. There was no reason why they couldn't advance the game in other ways while waiting for that player to respond - it just felt like coasting.

Your last para in particular feels like it is being written in bad faith - I don't think I am misrepping MM here even if I disagree with them (and fwiw MM made a later point about why they wanted to focus on following that question through) but you seem keen to frame the situation as such

[Marky Mark]

Assuming Setup A, these are the potential setups.

Why setup A in particular? I feel like I'm missing something here

[Flea The Magician]

How you tell apart simple cultist from cultist-cop?

Or do converted remain their powerrole and flip as some "Cult Cop"? I think it simple "Cultist".

You don't which is why we need the flip.

Cultist Cop claims every time because their wincon requires survival.

Town cop doesn't because infomation is vital, come clean after the hammer if you can

[Flea The Magician]

Assuming Setup A, these are the potential setups.

Why setup A in particular? I feel like I'm missing something here

Setup A was chosen because...

Spoiler: this got long...

Its the first on the list. -.-;

[InsidiousLemons]

enchant, why don't you think the cult leader would claim PR?

major, you quoted my post but didn't respond to it.

also,

can i request that we stop referring to anyone as MM?

there are two players with those initials and it will only cause confusion.

flea's 182 feels sort of like reactionary reasoning in response to getting called out for specifically focusing on the cop, but with how much fae seem to have thought all of this through (185), i don't think that focus is as indicative of role fishing as i may have thought. still, with so much of the discussion now centring around crumbs, it's going to be markedly more difficult for PRs to crumb targets/results and not get converted for it. i recognize i may be partly to blame for this, but we need to be on guard. i'm not sure that hunting for crumbs after a flip, especially given the fact that converted cultists will flip simply as "cultist", is going to be nearly as effective as flea is suggesting.

[Marky Mark]

After some deliberation

VOTE: osuka

I'm pretty wary of

MM

Major Minor and could happily vote there after they tried to shade me hard for singling them out and then had to invent some less-active slots when called out on their accusation.

That being said, Osuka's 152 just feels very slimy and more likely to have been made in bad faith

--pedit lol Flea ref setup A

--pedit I totally hadn't twigged about the whole MM thing. Post updated.

[Enchant]

Flea, if you say so, you didn't read.

Converted want to die. Because his life is worthless, his death may free place for new convert and save CL for another day.
Unless deadcultist doesn't win, but i didn't see any special rules so.

[Marky Mark]

On a waaaay lighter note, the mental image of Major Minor's SRs of Flea and I in one of their earlier posts made me chuckle. IIRC Flea is from Yorkshire, so if we ran a cult between us, it would be British af. Compulsory tea and custard creams for all initiates

[Enchant]

Cult Leader is main bone of cult, as long as he alive, cult can't be defeated.

If he counterclaim PRs, it's damn suicide. Unless he want throw wine around.