Open 814: CultD3 CULT WINS

[Korina]

VOTE COUNT 1.9

Enchant (4, E-1!):

Major Minor, T3, InsidiousLemons, Umlaut

Major Minor (1):

Flea The Magician

osuka (1):

Marky Mark

T3 (1):

Raya36

Raya36 (1):

Enchant

Flea The Magician (0):

InsidiousLemons (0):

Marky Mark (0):

Umlaut (0):

Not Voting (1):

osuka

With

9

votes in play, it takes

5

of them to yeet somebody.

At deadline, Enchant shall be yeeted.

(expired on 2021-06-14 09:25:00) remain in the day.

Mod Notes

:
- Korina is V/LA on weekends. Please direct questions at that time to my Discord (Korina#0359)
- Maruchan is my co-mod.
- All players that would be due for prods have posted.
- B

Pronoun Key

Korina - They/Them
Maruchan - She/Her
Flea The Magician - Fae/Faer or They/Them
Raya36 - She/Her
Enchant - Please set preferred pronouns in user control panel.
Major Minor - He/Him
Marky Marky - He/Him
T3 - He/Him
Umlaut - He/Him
osuka - He/Him
InsidiousLemons - Any Pronouns

[Flea The Magician]

People are so predictable sometimes....

[Flea The Magician]

Osaka less evasive, my bad, still disgustingly overly-aggressive and hostile.

Major Minor you case was poop, frankly. and you have answered

around

at least 1 question today and I've already shown you that.
Also protip, calling me disengenuous gets you scumpoints because frankly I absofuckinglutely hate when people declare "bad faith!!" as an excuse to ignore me. You give me hella bad vibes.
You say you'd shoot me to remove me from the game, do that mean you're SRing me or just dislike me? I'd love to know which one it is.


now this....

Mmmm. I know this is probably going to sign my death warrant, but whatever.

VOTE: Enchant

I believe this slot is independently scummy.

The opening "I claim Mafia Goon" is just cheeky enough that I could see cult doing it. This is purely conjecture, yes, but I actually think opening with that kind of joke is more likely to come from scum than town. Disagree? Okay, skip this point.

So much of what Enchant does early is split into two buckets: obviously farcical joking, or trying to direct town actions.

Almost the ENTIRETY of Enchant's posting so far is sort of playing in this orbit

around

the game rather than engaging with the game itself. What I mean is... it's all jokes, or it's talking

theory

about what could

hypothetically

be the best play in any given scenario. Then we keep going with it... what is the ideal claim? Is it bad to reveal roles? Should we massclaim? All this stuff looks neat but... Enchant doesn't have to engage with the game at all when doing this.

Look at all of Enchant's posts thus far. None of them give reads or attempt to pressure anyone or press suspicious actions. But there sure are a lot of them! Because waxing poetic about theory and hypotheticals is a very neat way for scum to generate content without opening themselves up to much risk.

is more than what can be said about your play so far, and if you noticed I started to follow up on this because yeah you made a point.

I may not like your slot rn, but I'm getting worse vibes from osuka.

[Enchant]

I think i fucked this game up.

I can claim, but are you damn sure?

[InsidiousLemons]

i don't think we gain anything by holding out on a fullclaim any longer, yourself included. just tell us

[Major Minor]

Osaka less evasive, my bad, still disgustingly overly-aggressive and hostile.

You are a hostile presence in the game, IMO. You've talked down to me for a large portion of your posts here and act as if you are better than everyone else. I can't tell if it's because you're scum with a chip on your shoulder, or you are just an angry person. That being said, it feels fairly hypocritical to want Osaka dead because of playstyle/personality given how you've acted. It's mafia, so I get it, it doesn't really bother me that much. But reading someone as scum for it? Come on now.

Major Minor you case was poop, frankly. and you have answered

around

at least 1 question today and I've already shown you that.

Handwaving an entire case and saying it was... poop? Bold, brave content.
I'm not sure what your second point means. The emphasis on "around" is strange, but also, you say I've answered "at least" one question today... so I've answered more than one? Or what? And how does this relate to my case, which you claimed was poop?

Also protip, calling me disengenuous gets you scumpoints because frankly I absofuckinglutely hate when people declare "bad faith!!" as an excuse to ignore me. You give me hella bad vibes.

You don't need to be condescending to people. "Protip", I'm not ignoring you. I've engaged with you countless times, but yes, eventually, if someone shows bad faith enough times, it becomes grounds for suspicion or pressure.

You say you'd shoot me to remove me from the game, do that mean you're SRing me or just dislike me? I'd love to know which one it is.

Answered above. I also, in the post where I said I'd shoot you, actually explained the reasons I was voting for you, so I am glad to have to repeat myself for you for like... the fifth time.

now this....

Mmmm. I know this is probably going to sign my death warrant, but whatever.

VOTE: Enchant

I believe this slot is independently scummy.

The opening "I claim Mafia Goon" is just cheeky enough that I could see cult doing it. This is purely conjecture, yes, but I actually think opening with that kind of joke is more likely to come from scum than town. Disagree? Okay, skip this point.

So much of what Enchant does early is split into two buckets: obviously farcical joking, or trying to direct town actions.

Almost the ENTIRETY of Enchant's posting so far is sort of playing in this orbit

around

the game rather than engaging with the game itself. What I mean is... it's all jokes, or it's talking

theory

about what could

hypothetically

be the best play in any given scenario. Then we keep going with it... what is the ideal claim? Is it bad to reveal roles? Should we massclaim? All this stuff looks neat but... Enchant doesn't have to engage with the game at all when doing this.

Look at all of Enchant's posts thus far. None of them give reads or attempt to pressure anyone or press suspicious actions. But there sure are a lot of them! Because waxing poetic about theory and hypotheticals is a very neat way for scum to generate content without opening themselves up to much risk.

is more than what can be said about your play so far, and if you noticed I started to follow up on this because yeah you made a point.

I may not like your slot rn, but I'm getting worse vibes from osuka.

[/quote]
You followed up on this how? By giving Enchant a "day pass" and hand waving what I said?

And if I made a point... then... why was my case "poop" like you said earlier?

[Enchant]

I am Town Rolestopper.

[Umlaut]

Hard agree that you fucked this game up if you're town.

UNVOTE: Enchant

I can re-vote if there's a counterclaim, otherwise I'll likely go back to Major Minor.

PSA: If you are a Rolestopper, Jailkeeper, Friendly Neighbor, or Unrecruitable Townie, you can counterclaim Enchant. If you are a Cop, Tracker, or Vanilla Townie, you cannot.

I'm looking over the setup matrix now and every possibility has at least one role who could counter a fake Rolestopper claim, so barring a cc we should believe it.

[InsidiousLemons]

for the sake of certainty, i think it's worth it for everyone to declare outright whether they can or cannot cc, using umlaut's post above as a guide. as long as no one declares their full role (DON'T do this), i don't think there's any disadvantage, because scum already knows the full setup now. if we don't get a cc, enchant is town and scum knows one tpr (enchant). if we do get a cc, enchant is scum and scum knows one tpr (the counterclaimer).

i

cannot cc

, and i would have expected scum to claim either unrecruitable or VT in this situation. this is looking like a pretty bad position if no one counterclaims.

[T3]

UNVOTE: ench
VOTE: major

Putting votes on separate lines for readability.
~ Kori

[Flea The Magician]

no CC from me, will addres Major's mising my point again after cyberpunk.

[Marky Mark]

for the sake of certainty, i think it's worth it for everyone to declare outright whether they can or cannot cc, using umlaut's post above as a guide. as long as no one declares their full role (DON'T do this), i don't think there's any disadvantage, because scum already knows the full setup now. if we don't get a cc, enchant is town and scum knows one tpr (enchant). if we do get a cc, enchant is scum and scum knows one tpr (the counterclaimer).

i

cannot cc

, and i would have expected scum to claim either unrecruitable or VT in this situation. this is looking like a pretty bad position if no one counterclaims.

I cannot CC.

Fwiw, independent of CC shenanigans, I agree that Rolestopper would be a bold fakeclaim for scum here and in my experience. The claiming under minimal pressure aspect itself is NAI and I've seen it done by both factions (eg scum!T3 claiming BP and town!etine claiming babysitter in the large normal that Enchant, T3 and I have just finished).

[Marky Mark]

IF we can deduce that Enchant's claim is legit through lack of CCs then it at least gives us a useful scumhunting tool I suppose as we can then go back through votes on him and try to separate out any that look like they were made in bad faith or were people jumping on the bandwagon

[Flea The Magician]

Osaka less evasive, my bad, still disgustingly overly-aggressive and hostile.

You are a hostile presence in the game, IMO. You've talked down to me for a large portion of your posts here and act as if you are better than everyone else. I can't tell if it's because you're scum with a chip on your shoulder, or you are just an angry person. That being said, it feels fairly hypocritical to want Osaka dead because of playstyle/personality given how you've acted. It's mafia, so I get it, it doesn't really bother me that much. But reading someone as scum for it? Come on now.

Yeah i'm a pretty angry person at the moment.

Spoiler: heres a brief rundown.

My gender dysphoria is rampaging as my Testosterone levels are rising once again thanks to the incompetence of so called professionals.
My grandmother - the family member we as a system are closest too passed way recently.
I have been requested to "Dress conservativly" to appease my uncle who "is in a dark place" at the moment. When pushed, the response was "Jeans, leggings, teeshirt... just not womanly".
My final conversation with my gran was her bollocking me thinking i was my uncle because he doesn't support me.
I am having, around 5 mental health episodes daily. Suppressed or otherwise. An episode is defined as altered state of lucidity.
I have a close friend currently on "watch" who I have spent most of today talking through an extended episode with. Do you know what a lethal dose of caffine is btw? Guess who had to look it up.

I, am having a rough as balls time rn and I just wanna play some mafia.

I haven't been directly aggressive. I get I come across as a bit "holier than thou" and that is far from my intent, i hate it honestly. Meanwhile, I'm probably the worst damn player in this game rn. The written word is powerful and its one of few things I have a relatively decent grasp on. Sadly my brain being the cosmic sack of crap that it is, along with my headmates, mean I have anywhere between 4 and 4000 thought processes happening at once.

Major Minor you case was poop, frankly. and you have answered

around

at least 1 question today and I've already shown you that.

Handwaving an entire case and saying it was... poop? Bold, brave content.
I'm not sure what your second point means. The emphasis on "around" is strange, but also, you say I've answered "at least" one question today... so I've answered more than one? Or what? And how does this relate to my case, which you claimed was poop?

I love you disconnected the emphasis from the phrase.

"What is 2+2"
a standard answer would 4.

Answering around the question would be..
"Likewise what is 2x2 as they give the same answer. Also consider that when you add two even numbers you will get an even number. If you're unsure if a number is even, it will end in 0, 2, 4, 6, or 8."

I asked what your reads are, you gave my a list of "If X is this then Y is this." which is not reads, it's associatives, and answering around the question.
And yes your case was poop. You attacked a playstate instead of forcing engagement and interaction. That is a pants case and honestly shows a lack of town thinking imo.

Also protip, calling me disengenuous gets you scumpoints because frankly I absofuckinglutely hate when people declare "bad faith!!" as an excuse to ignore me. You give me hella bad vibes.

You don't need to be condescending to people. "Protip", I'm not ignoring you. I've engaged with you countless times, but yes, eventually, if someone shows bad faith enough times, it becomes grounds for suspicion or pressure.

Didn't say you were ignoring, was saying this is what had happened in the past. People call bad faith to force disengagement. Frankly I know what angle I'm pushing, I used the context of the game, and I'm gathering information.

You say you'd shoot me to remove me from the game, do that mean you're SRing me or just dislike me? I'd love to know which one it is.

Answered above. I also, in the post where I said I'd shoot you, actually explained the reasons I was voting for you, so I am glad to have to repeat myself for you for like... the fifth time.

But you're not voting me. In fact, you're on Enchant, and the first one on there actually.

now this....

Mmmm. I know this is probably going to sign my death warrant, but whatever.

VOTE: Enchant

I believe this slot is independently scummy.

The opening "I claim Mafia Goon" is just cheeky enough that I could see cult doing it. This is purely conjecture, yes, but I actually think opening with that kind of joke is more likely to come from scum than town. Disagree? Okay, skip this point.

So much of what Enchant does early is split into two buckets: obviously farcical joking, or trying to direct town actions.

Almost the ENTIRETY of Enchant's posting so far is sort of playing in this orbit

around

the game rather than engaging with the game itself. What I mean is... it's all jokes, or it's talking

theory

about what could

hypothetically

be the best play in any given scenario. Then we keep going with it... what is the ideal claim? Is it bad to reveal roles? Should we massclaim? All this stuff looks neat but... Enchant doesn't have to engage with the game at all when doing this.

Look at all of Enchant's posts thus far. None of them give reads or attempt to pressure anyone or press suspicious actions. But there sure are a lot of them! Because waxing poetic about theory and hypotheticals is a very neat way for scum to generate content without opening themselves up to much risk.

is more than what can be said about your play so far, and if you noticed I started to follow up on this because yeah you made a point.

I may not like your slot rn, but I'm getting worse vibes from osuka.

You followed up on this how? By giving Enchant a "day pass" and hand waving what I said?

And if I made a point... then... why was my case "poop" like you said earlier?

Enchant made sense and was doing good at the time, was engaging with me sincerely and I had no reason to doubt them. Your case felt scum motivated as it was pushing a mech-active/game-inactive slot without trying to interact with them imo. Which is where I took your point - still doesn't mean your case is good - and pushed it a little to try and generate content. and now we know why enchant was distant. I fully buy the claim ftr but unfortunately they will be recruited tonight.

[Marky Mark]

hit me with any questions you have, i'll be back on later after work to respond

A good place to start would be my point in 191, which you tried to write off as OMGUS at the time. Why not just give a response to my point, even if you disagreed with me, rather than trying to discredit me? I think most people would agree that the point I made went beyond OMGUS - it was the

means

that you pushed me by that was disingenuous.

I'm also keen to understand where your head is at atm in terms of top town/scumreads. You're not voting, and while you have commented on individual actions, I can't find much in your ISO in terms of how you are seeing the overall game.

[Marky Mark]

UNVOTE: ench
VOTE: major

Putting votes on separate lines for readability.
~ Kori

Why Major?

[Marky Mark]

I'm heading to bed, but just wanted to say that it's great seeing the thread look more lively again. Night all

[Major Minor]

UNVOTE: Enchant

[Umlaut]

Enchant, you should commit now to telling us all your rolestop targets (the next day, not in advance). It's generally pro-town to do so and it will force future cult!you to make up plausible targets, which might still give town some information. Of course cult!you could just renege on the promise but then we can all safely assume you've been brainwashed.

[Raya36]

Sadly i could't fight my VI nature and protect self, so:

Spoiler:

I am Town PR. I strongly believe we are toast without CL dead fast anyway. If you want exact role, then go ahead and ask. If other PR will claim, it would be sweet.

Uhhhh wtf

You had, what, two votes on you? This was completely unnecessary.

I planned to do that anyway, that's reason why i asked what you mind about it. I see this as not bad way.

What's done is done but I don't think claiming this was as beneficial to town as it was to scum.

Oh not much to catch up on.

Still keeping my vote on Enchant.

Definitely keeping my vote on you. Enchant claimed PR, unless you think they're gambiting?

I'm looking over the setup matrix now and every possibility has at least one role who could counter a fake Rolestopper claim, so barring a cc we should believe it.

Agreed, this would be one of the worst fakeclaims scum could do.,

[T3]

Sadly i could't fight my VI nature and protect self, so:

Spoiler:

I am Town PR. I strongly believe we are toast without CL dead fast anyway. If you want exact role, then go ahead and ask. If other PR will claim, it would be sweet.

Uhhhh wtf

You had, what, two votes on you? This was completely unnecessary.

I planned to do that anyway, that's reason why i asked what you mind about it. I see this as not bad way.

What's done is done but I don't think claiming this was as beneficial to town as it was to scum.

Oh not much to catch up on.

Still keeping my vote on Enchant.

Definitely keeping my vote on you. Enchant claimed PR, unless you think they're gambiting?

I'm looking over the setup matrix now and every possibility has at least one role who could counter a fake Rolestopper claim, so barring a cc we should believe it.

Agreed, this would be one of the worst fakeclaims scum could do.,

I posted that when I hadn't seen enchants claims. Then I unvoted.

[Raya36]

You posted that after the general PR claim but before the rolestopper claim

[Major Minor]

@Flea: I'm sorry you're going through all of that right now. I hope it gets better for you.

I see what you're saying about the "around" thing now. I don't think I've been avoiding anything. I gave both associatives and reads today as I formed them or as I was requested to provide them. I tend to think in associatives first and try to draw inferences from interactions between players, especially with a playerlist this small with not much room to hide.

I'm not sure what a "pants" case is. But I'd argue I wasn't attacking a playstyle, I was attacking individual categories of actions as being scummy. (And, for the record, "You were attacking a playstyle" is a really weird critique? Like yes, if a playstyle is scummy, the actions comprising that playstyle gets called out.)

To your point about bad faith: if you weren't saying I was ignoring you, why did you tell me I got "scum points" for using the argument because it's an excuse to ignore you? Like, you're simultaneously using the ignoring as a reason to blanket scumread me, while also claiming I'm not actually ignoring you and you're just talking about what has happened in the past.

You're right, I was the first one on Enchant. I still stand by my points that Enchant's play was scum-coded, and furthermore, I think the open claim is actively harmful to town and very well might've lost us the game here.

---

I'm at a complete loss for what to do. Enchant has hardclaimed so that's off the table. I know that I'm not scum. I don't believe Osuka is scum, though I'm sincerely hoping I'm not being pocketed and letting Osuka into my blind spot. If I believe all of that, and not a single person has shown any interest in supporting my suspicions on Flea, then I'm left with a very narrow pool, all of which seem to be somewhat swimming in the same stagnant null waters.

On my to-do list is to go back and reread Raya, T3, Umlaut, and Lemons to see if I can glean anything from there.

[T3]

You posted that after the general PR claim but before the rolestopper claim

Enchants pr claim felt like a scum cop out claim earlier. Like that's the kind of thing I would do as scum in ENchants situation there.

[Korina]

Gonna steal the pagetop