Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Hectic]

Ydrasse on Page 16/17: Good thoughtspews, doesn't seem faked

Luke on Page 17: Scumreading Prism and putting her on L-1 despite townreading her earlier, pretty towny, think scum wouldn't blatantly be so opportunistic to vote the largest wagon they were previously scumreadings, reads as town pursuing a change in read

I have had enough of people actively getting in my way of trying to sort that slot.

If he's town and I'm scum let him have his own agency and place his bet rather than capitalizing on it while he's gone.

I do not want him crying that I was obviously town after I have already flipped.

The second line is strange, elaborate?

[Hectic]

half the game being vla....
UNVOTE: Johnny
I'm going to give this a reread.

Why unvote here?

TOwn: Lukewarm, Fidet, Prism
Lean towm: Infinity
Null, Ydrasse, Child, Hectic
Scum: Johnny

These past few pages have made prism a stronger townread for me.

I don't totally get the case against Prism.

Johhny, Faries, and Prism are my top 3 scum after a reread.

???? Your progressions baffle me

Could you explain the above and also this one?

[MURDERCAT]

Vote Count 1.10

[2] Prism: Hectic, Child of Fairies
[2] Hectic: Prism, Lukewarm
[1] Fidget: JohnnyFarrar
[1] JohnnyFarrar: Infinity 324
[1] Child of Fairies: T3
[0] Infinity 324:
[0] T3:
[0] Ydrasse:
[0] Lukewarm:

Not voting: Fidget, Ydrasse

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-06-12 21:58:45).

Mod Notes:
- JohnnyFarrar is V/LA until the 10th
- JohnnyFarrar has been prodded

[Prism]

Lukewarm was very explicit about wanting someone to hammer ASAP, before you got a chance to weigh in. My being scum in that sentence there is a worst case ccounterfactual.

[Hectic]

Fidget on Page 20: Reaffirming my townread on her

I look forward to it. Your current vote was already negligent last time you posted, now it is horrifically so.

I read nothing when I don't have time to post, you made it out fine though, just made the game more exciting

Lastly, I legitimately don't know what he's thinking with the confidence point given that he knew I was willow1, unless he just completely forgot Happy Face Mafia existed. He was never getting away with lying about that as scum and it clearly did not factor into his read on me at all as town.

I knew you were willow but I'd completely forgotten about that since dying in that game honestly

[Hectic]

i haven't been fooled by him yet that i can remember actually?

I've only rolled scum against you in marathons but I'm 3/3 I think, you're quick to block it from memory I see

Top of Page 23, mind's getting cloudy. Will finish up reading after a short break

[Prism]

Good to have you back, by the way.

[Hectic]

Good to be back in the trees

[Hectic]

Well, I read everything. All of Lukewarm, Fidget, Prism, Infinity, Ydrasse, Child are towny which is an interesting conundrum. There's even reason to think T3 is towny for the lack of care for progression and swinging his vote around and likely following his gut. Of those, I think Child is most likely to he scum for the way he was aggressively scumreading Prism, almost trying to appear as strong on the push, perhaps because he would think it looks towny, it read a little over the top, yet only listing Prism as a scumlean in his eventual readslist.

Lukewarm did a similar thing but it felt a lot more genuine, not sure why, probably because he fleshed out the reasons in which Prism could be manipulating using the self-hammer shenanigans. In fact, Fairy Child's eventual reason to scumleam Prism does borrow directly from Lukewarm's reasoning, although I'll check this after posting (on my phone)

Johnny's inactivity seems to be site wide but the easy TvT stance is probably a scummy enough thing to vote for this game

[Hectic]

This is actually incredibly annoying and I want it over with.

Hectic is wondering if a scum Prism tried, and failed, to get townread with the push on Hectic early, only to salvage it with the town posts about backing off and thinking about the rest of the game. I am suggesting to Hectic that he has it flipped: that getting scumread initially only to be townread for the backoff would have been the point from the start, and linked a game where I planned several similar sequences days or weeks in advance.

If you think this is absurd, then okay.

I'm sorry for any frustration I may have caused, and that maybe my brain's just being dumb here, but are you suggesting to Hectic that you're playing a similar game to your last scumgame? Because that game you linked for similarity is a scumgame. I can't tell if you're suggesting that you're playing the same and thus Hectic shouldn't townread you for this or you're playing different and that he should townread you for this.

I still feel like this line is something town wouldn't really do, though, and while you could probably argue that scum wouldn't either given how it's turned out, but I feel like scum has more reason to try this given the amount of confusion it's created, so...

VOTE: Prism

If I'm wrong and just bad at reading I will unvote, but this feels fine right now.

Hmhmhm, is this reasoning genuine... I think there's a lot more reason for scum not to do what Prism did than town, scum probably don't care about the incorrect reasoning, but there's reason for town to worry that it could come back to bite them down the line if the other party sees that, as Prism explains. I particularly don't like the "confusion created" line though, it's silly to assume Prism would post it to cause "confusion" in the thread

[Hectic]

And as for Prism, I quite literally say in the post you're quoting that I'm going to keep it short because it's not a post about Prism, and I even directly say "aside from what I've already said" at the start. I'd already made various posts on Prism and why I found her actions scummy and didn't feel the need to reiterate myself, so I only added what had happened since my most recent post about Prism, which was mostly her tilting and threatening to self-hammer.

Tone here also seems unreasonable defensive to Fidget's relatively neutral comment

VOTE: Fairy Child

[Hectic]

Not really a fan of Fairy Child's readlist either

Dislike how he randomly throws in the possibility of a Ydrasse/Prism scumteam, yet doesn't comment on why he would think this could be the case

Dislike how he says it's "interesting" that Fidget dislikes Lukewarm which is an unpopular opinion, yet fails to ascertain anything alignment indicative from it

Dislike the reasoning on Prism since the plan stated there doesn't really make sense? For scum!Prism to say she won't self-hammer herself is going against the whole point of linking a game where she did it as town in the first place, particularly when Infinity had unvoted due to it. Makes more sense if she says she won't while on L-1 since the question of why she isn't doing it while in that state might come up, but to do so after Infinity unvotes and puts her on L-2 invites her to revote and dispels trying to scare people from voting her by linking the game in the first place. That took a while to articulate but not sure what Fairy sees about this being a scum-motivated plan, seems surface level scummy to take this take

[Hectic]

Alright, I have a scumread now and feel much better

[Hectic]

T3 reads opportunistic scum to me, but since everybody else seems to be content to have him as a backburner read right now I don't see much of an incentive to try and push on him.

Lastly, I don't like this part. following everyone else's opinion rather than starting the push or trying to talk to others about it, this is also the second time this has been said, but he hasn't cared to ask talk more about it or ask Lukewarm about him who seems to have meta on him. I think this fits well into scum seeing something town is doing as scummy, and wanting to point that out, but being afraid to go beyond due to the consensus opinion not matching it

[Infinity 324]

Hectic I'll be honest this scumread feels like you forced yourself to come up with a scumread

[Hectic]

Fidget's reaction to the 1v1 was towny imo

Luke is super towny

Hectic is towny

Ydrasse is lean town ig

T3 is somewhat towny

Ask me about these I'm too lazy to explain otherwise

Curious about the T3 read. I've never played before, so his (and Johnny's) style of "I'm just going to jump in and vote from time to time without explanation" doesn't really read town to me at face value.

I agree with the rest of your reads, though.

T3 and Johnny both feel less towny to me due to their "I'm just going to hop in, vote, and leave" gameplans but most people are townreading T3 and he might always be like this and Johnny's v/la and that might be impacting it so /shrug

Well, they do actually ask in the first post here, but Infinity doesn't respond and it isn't followed up on

[Prism]

VOTE: Johnny

The short of this is that, coming back fresh from V/LA to find what is 100% a dumpster fire for scum, jumping straight to townreading so many people, especially if one of them is me, over something more open is a big risk for Hectic as scum. I had this vote typed up before he pushed on Child, which IMO opens the possibility more, but I still feel comfortable moving off. I think his reasoning is pretty ontrack with my concern for Child-a lot of being very careful with reads and defensive when pushed-but I felt better about the wall.

I do think Hectic makes a good point about Child's read on T3.

[Hectic]

Hectic I'll be honest this scumread feels like you forced yourself to come up with a scumread

You had a similar read on me in scholarship when I scumread Andres, except you were scum there

That's just how it is when I force myself to delve into a game and try and find scum. I feel decent about it now though

[Infinity 324]

@hectic I respond in 307

PEdit: yeah I don't think it's scummy I just don't think it's likely to be accurate

[Prism]

Hectic I'll be honest this scumread feels like you forced yourself to come up with a scumread

My concern is that it comes immediately after originally ceding this giant block of townleans, and with very well thought-out reasoning. This is a very good, crisp angle: but searching for a scumread is exactly what you should be doing as town, so I'm not going to dwell on whether or not the sequence was planned.

[Prism]

Hmmm okay accuracy, I can't weigh in as much there atm but will probably review the wall from Child more indepth.

Vote preference right now would be Johnny -> Ydrasse -> T3 -> Child

[Hectic]

I mean I was definitely searching for it but it was built on already existing gut uneasiness from the slot, but ones I hadn't mentioned earlier since it was purely gut

[Prism]

I do not know why I read 646 as so town but I do.

Locktown: Lukewarm, Infinity
Strong townlean: Fidget, Hectic
Null: Child, T3
Scumleans: Ydrasse, Johnny

Ordered overall T->S

[Hectic]

The arc is complete

[Prism]

Actually I'm going to bump Hectic down to weak townlean 646 isn't that good considering the Child push was telegraphed in 633.

Also curious to me that you never wound up weighing in on the suggestion that the whole original sequence between us was planned, whether you found it ridiculous or not I think not touching it is a bit ?