Mini Normal 2213 - Village (End Game)

[Gamma Emerald]

sup nerds and Gamma. I'm back

VOTE: Gamma

That pizza looks so good...

I object to this post on the grounds I am most definitely a nerd! As such I should not be called out separately!

Anyway, I look forward to a fun game with you all.

[Gamma Emerald]

How interesting. UC voyager reminds me of unwnd and he's posted what like 3 posts?

I haven’t played with UCV in quite a while but he never struck me as the incisive mind type

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: VFP
I noticed a lot of votes heading this person’s way, but not many stuck. Could be signs of textbook early scum distancing.

[Gamma Emerald]

ItalianoVD - seems pretty towny as scum. town behavior I haven't paid much attention to/havent seen. can't remember which.

I replaced out of it but I believe I had one game with IVD where he scummed it up pretty bad early as town

[Gamma Emerald]

incisive != decisive
I’m pretty sure incisive means cutting, so in essence I’m saying I don’t remember UCV’s thought process cutting very deep
Not meant as bashing, just stating he didn’t stand out in that regard

[Gamma Emerald]

Pretty often scum will vote a buddy in RVS and then move their vote elsewhere when it’s time for serious voting. I think the real psychology of it has to do with the call to transition that the end of RVS brings. When RVS ends, people are expected to shift their votes, otherwise they risk ridicule. As such voting a partner before that point creates a negative flow of pressure on their buddy.

I think that all makes sense but I also just finished a game that dives into a lot of psychological nitty-gritty, so maybe it’s not as plain as I think. Lmk if something confuses you (general request)

[Gamma Emerald]

unwnd doesn't either but unwnd has great reads!
as long as UC catches me all the scum idc if his thought process is deep or shallow

Fair enough
I’ll probably observe in my own way. I ended up being able to read unwnd fairly well before I stopped playing last, I would say

[Gamma Emerald]

Is that pizza topped with sauce over the cheese, if so I’m concerned

[Gamma Emerald]

Chicago style deep dish? I feel nothing but disgust for any who profess a taste for such pizza. My family has taken to calling it an “above-ground swimming pool for rats”, based on an old TV news clip.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think that the one with the underscore is scum. ss__ that one
um because their posts on page 73 has a weird interaction w/ UC. Post 73 feels super extra.

idk if I'm as confident as you but kyouko seems a little off so far imo

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the main thing I wanna address here is the part about directly talking to Noraa
what I see as the core cause of that is that Noraa simply has the most posts so far, by a sizable margin. So it's easiest to interact with her.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the main thing I wanna address here is the part about directly talking to Noraa
what I see as the core cause of that is that Noraa simply has the most posts so far, by a sizable margin. So it's easiest to interact with her.

Do not like this post.

VOTE: Gamma

Can you articulate why? I can see a potential logic to this comment, I wonder if I'm right about it.

[Gamma Emerald]

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

Correction, there were four wagons with 2 votes: Gamma, STD, Max, and VFP. I’m curious why VFP’s stood out to you over the others.

May I speak on this? After OP answers of course, if I have something to add at that point

[Gamma Emerald]

at least I have never met someone who could trick me once I got their meta nailed down >.<

Not to be rude, but I do feel like you've at least had false starts in this regard, times you thought you had it figured out but found your body of work to be off. As such, I'd like some examples of who you've managed to figure out over time.

[Gamma Emerald]

lol my question jut got rendered moot

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the main thing I wanna address here is the part about directly talking to Noraa
what I see as the core cause of that is that Noraa simply has the most posts so far, by a sizable margin. So it's easiest to interact with her.

Do not like this post.

VOTE: Gamma

Can you articulate why? I can see a potential logic to this comment, I wonder if I'm right about it.

I feel like you approached it defensively, when Noraa was not scum reading you for it, and I when I read through, I did not think twice about it. But for you it was "the main thing you wanna address here"

Felt like you were primed to defend yourself

Well there was also the part about me being chill, which while I could speak on it, my words would be meaningless
What I figured you'd talk about was the irony of my talking about that without directly addressing it at Noraa
Honestly if I wanted to defend myself I probably would have dove into that, I just explained what I felt like was worth explaining.

[Gamma Emerald]

But my thing is why did you single out the VFP voters? Why not the Johnny voters or the Noraa voters. I’m trying to understand your angle here and it’s not making me feel good.

Correction, there were four wagons with 2 votes: Gamma, STD, Max, and VFP. I’m curious why VFP’s stood out to you over the others.

VFP's actually had movement of people coming on and off, so it stood out to me. I think at the time there had been 3 people, maybe 4 that had voted VFP at some point. 2 RVS votes on the same person does not a wagon make. When votes start going on and off like that though, it piques my interest

yeah I thought like this too, it's why I voted VFP

[Gamma Emerald]

I am feeling a little better about Kyouko's play rn, recent postings by him show a decent level of thought

[Gamma Emerald]

Wtf, who votes a day 13 IC?
All we have to do is no lim every day, hope something assists in stopping kills and I'm actually confirmed as town or scum by that point.

I can think of a purpose behind such a role, but I don’t think it exists as of yet.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t even know who you are lol

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m very glad this game isn’t at breakneck pace but it’s literally stagnant rn
Someone breathe some life into this game!

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral kinda seems like scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral kinda seems like scum

Based on?

Also, have you played with them before?

I’ve played with Dunn quite a bit
As for the read, he seems lurky and also a bit desperate to fit in. The first point is kinda meta based, scumStral has a trend of being lurky.

[Gamma Emerald]

Your second and third posts indicate attempts to integrate with the behavior of others, particularly Noraa

[Gamma Emerald]

Willing to vote UC, Kyoko, Ita, Luke today. Anybody else you or they will have to convince me

VOTE: uc[/v]

Luke is town

[Gamma Emerald]

Literally every stance Kyouko has made feels off to me. Like they are hunting for excuses to scum read people (which scum do), instead of actually reading people (which townies do)

VOTE: Kyouko

I can see this, something seems off about that last wall

[Gamma Emerald]

my suggestion is to either yeet Andres or Dunn.
It seems stupid to be going and yeeting Ita, VFP, or Mon who are all known to be LHF.

Dunn wagon has a decent amount of resistance. Tbh im really uncertain on Dunn but I do think that if he doesn't start towning up, he maybe should die today because if he is scum and gets replaced, its very damn possible that I'll just let him go and the replacement will slip by for a long time and that's horrible. And Andres dipped off saying he was drunk and still hasn't come back. I have a specific reason why I think Andres is scum which, if he is scum and comes back to the thread, I think I can verify. If he doesn't come back, then he needs to be replaced. However, I do also hope he doesn't rep out cuz my tell won't necessarily work on someone else. I think that if both Dunn and Andres get replaced, we should yeet Andres because im more confident in that being scum(kinda) I dunno im just still very weirded out that I dont have a solid read on Dunn at this point. Normally, like 3 posts in, I should already know exactly what alignment he is!!!!

I don't plan on needing a replacement...

That’s not what called for a response in that post

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Dunnstral
I would like to actively push this atp

[Gamma Emerald]

I can see this, something seems off about that last wall

How did you take him not talking to you about your VFP vote? Also you said there were unvotes when there was one and now it’s been established that it was a joke? What were you seeing?

Voting somewhere else without unvoting still counts IMO
As for “it was a joke”, I don’t get how that matters to me

[Gamma Emerald]

scumStral has a trend of being lurky.

What about town Dunnstral? From what I remember he was pretty lurky as town as well.

Sometimes he is, but when he is it doesn’t look like this IMO

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyone else get the feeling this last round of postings from italiano are different somehow? Tone feels completely changed, like he's received coaching. Just woke up and read through it on my phone.

It does seem different tonally, but why is it indicative of coaching?

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyone else get the feeling this last round of postings from italiano are different somehow? Tone feels completely changed, like he's received coaching. Just woke up and read through it on my phone.

It does seem different tonally, but why is it indicative of coaching?

I feel like a person posts how they post and if that changes it can be an indicator that the words are being put in their mouth. It also feels like he was waiting for someone else to vote me first, which I dont think has anything to do with the coaching, but also seems scummy

Okay, I don’t have any objection to this thought process.

[Gamma Emerald]

UCV/Max is there a reason y’all aren’t voting?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: MaxTheFox
Where’s your mind at?

[Gamma Emerald]

Is there a reason this game has devolved into voting for only low content slots? Does that mean we think everybody who is talking is town?

I had a thought process to my choice

[Gamma Emerald]

And no I don’t think all the scum are low-content

[Gamma Emerald]

Well, it’s technically possible but I’m not willing to claim it’s likely rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Lukewarm and ssb tbh feels TvT but I also SR both of them a little bit. I will go ahead and just mark it TvT and call it a day.

I reread the Kyouko/Luke interaction somewhat and this resembles my current thoughts on it

[Gamma Emerald]

Sometimes he is, but when he is it doesn’t look like this IMO

Look like what? Can you show me what difference you’re seeing?

I believe Dunnstral should have at least some genuine effort present if he’s lurky town, or at the very least display a specific behavioral pattern
I haven’t seen it yet

[Gamma Emerald]

Voting somewhere else without unvoting still counts IMO
As for “it was a joke”, I don’t get how that matters to me

Of course it does. I’m saying there were not multiple unvotes as you stated in 61. It may seem small but it’s important that information like that is accurate so as not to paint the wrong picture overall.

I’m asking if you feel differently about the unvote now that it was shown to be a joke to match VFP’s joke claim? And you didn’t answer my first question.

I don’t feel any different about it with the fact it was a follow-up response to a joke claim. My premise was that the wagon not being larger was due to scum stepping off, and honestly I’d put greater suspicion on an unvote that uses a joke claim as its basis.
As for Kyouko not interacting on that point, from what I saw we had practically the same thinking about VFP. If our thought slightly differed I’d have expected interaction, but any interaction in this case would have basically been echoing each other’s thoughts.

[Gamma Emerald]

In a hypothetical situation where Italy WAS coached, Andres could be that coach. And he's still not in thread. So like.

VOTE: Andres

Not specifically for that, but just. Yknow. In general.

I hate this post on a lot of levels.

In a hypothetical situation where Italy WAS coached, Andres could be that coach. And he's still not in thread. So like.

VOTE: Andres

Not specifically for that, but just. Yknow. In general.

Very strange. Looks like he is grasping for a reason to switch his vote.

Willing to vote UC, Kyoko, Ita, Luke today. Anybody else you or they will have to convince me

VOTE: uc[/v]

Also what happened to this ahaha?

rtlotus pretty much said the same thing but dressed up nicer, right above where he says he needs to policy elim me because he can't read me

It ain't that serious lol. Not like I'm out for your head, but it would really help me if you give a bit more than the last times I played with you. I realized that's a bit hypocritical coming from me at this very moment. I'm just not tryna lose a third time in a row to scum!you.

In contrast this is a good post.

Why are you specifically contrasting these posts?

[Gamma Emerald]

If you wanna know more about this just ask me, don’t assume.

Why’d you choose to post this? This is personal curiosity here, I have issue with knowing when to ask questions IRL.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald
Noraa
VFP

UC Voyager
Save The Dragons
JohnnyFarrar
Dunnstral
Andresvmb
ItalianoVD

MaxTheFox
ssbm_Kyouko
RLotus

These are not ordered inside the tiers, but my current thoughts on the player list

Any reasons?

You have not posted anything that makes me feel like you are solving. Only posted content was to TR the most widely TRed player.

Made multiple posts about Kyouko.

RLotus's post 179 caused a gut reaction scum read, and that is all he has posted so far, so there he is

Not much to solve yet IMO. I'll make a reads list tomorrow (it's late where I live) but I'll say one thing: that post smells town to me.

I think we should vote anyone who lurks after a few more pages so more posts come in.

I look forward to your reads
VOTE: Dunnstral

[Gamma Emerald]

And hahaha the thought that I would say I can’t get on to play but would have the time to coach someone is nothing short of laughable. I don’t have to lie about my activity to win a game as Scum.

Yeah apparently we’re partners and you coached me to start posting “differently”. I think it’s more of an insult that if I was scum I’d need coaching.

Actual scumtell right here.

Can you expand on this?
Wrt the parroting, I think it’s not relevant, unless you show Italy doesn’t use that phrase often.
As for asking for a case, that can be construed as a scum behavior, in the sense that a case can be deconstructed and argued against piece-by-piece. But town can also do that, so I don’t see the value of that point.

Essentially I think your scumread on Italy is rather circumstantial currently. I’m not against it, but I’d like a little more to go on.

[Gamma Emerald]

There's scum is Lukewarm, Nora, IVD, and Johny.

Because I saw that they called me town.
And I didn't like it.

Okay. Can you say more about this? It’s a pretty general statement.

[Gamma Emerald]

Fixed it.

I don’t feel any different about it with the fact it was a follow-up response to a joke claim. My premise was that the wagon not being larger was due to scum stepping off, and honestly I’d put greater suspicion on an unvote that uses a joke claim as its basis.

Okay I see what you what you were thinking now.

As for Kyouko not interacting on that point, from what I saw we had practically the same thinking about VFP. If our thought slightly differed I’d have expected interaction, but any interaction in this case would have basically been echoing each other’s thoughts.

I don't think it was entirely the same, maybe the initial perception of the wagon was, but the response to it wasn't. You voted for VFP thinking he was scum and his partner was distancing. Kyouko voted for one of the VFP voters thinking they were scum jumping on a town wagon? Obviously I'm biased because he's voting me, but you and Johnny were voting VFP and yet he voted for me under the premise that he didn't like the voters. I could actually see and understand your reasoning and response. Kyouko to me doesn't make sense.

Actually, now that I consider it, our thinking possibly did differ. I think Kyouko didn’t place as much suspicion on VFP as I did, if any. That’s the logical explanation for why Kyouko acted differently.

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda feel like lotus is town but I need to actually read what’s happened recently

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Gamma is Town. I see some of that some style posting I’ve seen before, some contrasting to play they’ve observed in the past, and some good observations. Don’t SR it at present.

What does this even mean

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t know my summary came all convoluted but I wanted to make the point that you’ve given me good vibes. I guess you could summarize it that way.

Ah. I see it now.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: rlotus
This play around claiming reminds me of someone else in another game. They were scum and pulled the same dodgy behavior, practically down to the letter.
FYI if this falls through I’d suggest we vote out Max, given he and UCV both have remained the least contributory slots looking at the activity overview, and UCV has at least posted stuff I legitimately felt good about.

[Gamma Emerald]

Dammit Noraa, lotus is actually pulling a very sketchy move!
I’m pretty sure you didn’t see it live, so I’d advise you to go and read Vaxkiller’s posting in A Little Boonie Told Me. That pretty much a carbon copy of lotus’ behavior here in regards to how they both try to not claim.

[Gamma Emerald]

Luke was pointing right at kyouko most of the day yesterday, that's an obvious nightkill for kyouko scum

That is what happened upon me, as well.
Beyond that, I need time to regroup. I believe I’ve found my emblem of sorts for my current return to this site. It starts with these words:

Let it go, and move on.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I want to know why FMFT trusts me before okaying this elimination.

[Gamma Emerald]

It kinda feels like virtue signaling?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also feels a bit like you’re shading FMFT’s assertions, given they claimed some seemingly valuable info.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma is it true that part of your role is Cop enabler?

Yes
Though I’m skeptical of how that makes me town, and I also had suspicions upon receiving my role about how I should go about claiming based on a guess that scum might be informed of my role. So I don’t really trust FMFT off this claim.

[Gamma Emerald]

Cop enabler seems like a good role to put on a mafioso to reduce swing. But that's not hard evidence for Gamma being scum because that might be what the mod wants us to think.

I'd like people who SR me to explain why if it's not a gut read.

Yeah, this is exactly why FMFT’s blind trust of me was concerning.

[Gamma Emerald]

I legitimately believed RLotus was playing similar to Vaxkiller in A Little Boonie Told Me It was up to Rlotus to prove me wrong through his actions, and he failed in that regard.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll admit my read was wrong, but it was genuine.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Dunnstral what’s on your mind?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah I don’t think FMFT is scum atp
This radio silence makes no sense otherwise

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I don’t like the rolefishing that went down just now.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

I trust Gamma

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko

I trust Gamma

What did I say about VFP being scum guys?
He's a strong supporter of the FMFT wagon but then OOP bye bye guys lets move off this wagon.
What this means for FMFT's alignment, I'm not clear because WIFOM but I really just have not been TRing VFP at all.
I still pretty firmly believe andres is scum otherwise andres is just not playing that great given I think town him does know how to get townread. He's doing quite some AtE as well which doesn't seem like a town andres thing to do. Like I do think that town andres is overly emotional over things as well. But I just don't think town andres will *purposefully* AtE to make people feel bad about SRing him. Like his whole vibe this game has been more ... like "aw guys pls TR me I'm being towny" and not "stfu dumbass, I'm town" The town andres that I know just doesn't remind me of him! Like maybe his play style did a 180 since I last saw it or he's going through some real shit in his life but I really just think he's just scum here.

Can we actually just stop naked voting. Like town is already a lot weaker and now we're all piling on someone thats claimed pr. Who cares if they're scummy? I would rather let a maf pr go than take the risk of killing two town prs in a row????????????? I guess thinking on that, a role cop for mafia is pretty dangerous to leave around but really just given that they don't seem to give a shit about if they live, they're either noobscum or superbadtown. I feel like super bad town makes some sense here

VFP also voted me earlier
So yeah, the progression seems all over the place.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Dunnstral what’s on your mind?

I believe I've said what's important so far

I want to add that you feel pretty partnery with FMFT right now, both based on their claim, your play around it, and both of your plays around these wagons

This post also feels problematic
I’m pretty sure Dunnstral has seen this exact play from town!me, so to suspect it like this with little extra reason provided is concerning.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: VFP
Looking at the recent vote count, their “trust” in me makes no sense.

[Gamma Emerald]

Dunnstral - talking more than usual could be scum for it

Talk about this one for me?

[Gamma Emerald]

i think he's talking more than he was in the town game i played with him

Pls link that game

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok so help me. Gamma, Dunn, and Max are all an amorphous blob of "OH, they're playing this game????" For me and I don't like it

I should be in that set at all rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok so help me. Gamma, Dunn, and Max are all an amorphous blob of "OH, they're playing this game????" For me and I don't like it

I should be in that set at all rn

Shouldn’t *

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think all of them are scum (ssbm, free tea, and gamma), but I don’t think they’re all town either. I’m still trying to feel out what partnership would make the most sense to me. Gamma/ssbm, ssbm/free, or Gamma/free. Then I have to see which partnership makes the most sense to have Johnny in there with them.

I spotted two assumptions in this. Can you explain why you are making them?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I don’t like the rolefishing that went down just now.

This also doesn’t make sense. Kyouko is trying to understand a Claim that was given out partially and voluntarily. How is this role fishing?

Kyouko is trying to ask about my role through someone else. It probably wouldn’t bother me as much if there wasn’t such a serpentine route to it.

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess that makes more sense, but it still feels bothersome
Don’t you think they might have been vague for a reason?

[Gamma Emerald]

And like, the way you phrased that feels rather accusatory towards me, like I failed to respond to your direct question, when I provided a rather clear answer.
As for “part of” being a point of contention: perhaps you may have forgotten alignment can be considered part of one’s role? I think that could be a reasonable explanation.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Max how new are you to the game?

I played mafia elsewhere (mostly chat) but this is my first game on Mafiacum.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NOT THAT TYPO

omg this is priceless
I have had issues with such typos in chat mafia, which has resulted in time-outs due to it being a prohibited word

[Gamma Emerald]

I said directly because you said serpentine and I wanted to make it clear that I did not ask about your role in a roundabout way.

As I've mentioned several times already, I dont want to leave anything open to be changed later when it becomes convenient for scum!FMFT or scum!Gamma.

I would not ever consider that someone would leave another player's alignment out of their claim, not that I agree with you regarding role and alignment. You think if FMFT knew your alignment he would leave it out? Roles in general are not always tied to alignment, and Cop Enabler is certainly not tied to alignment (in a Normal).

perhaps you missed the part about intentional vagueness? So what if there's more to my role? It's not exactly your business to know it currently. The thing that's important is that I am a Cop Enabler. And why do you think your questions would be inconvenient for either scum!me or scum!FMFT?

[Gamma Emerald]

why is Italiano town? That seems like a non-sequitur

[Gamma Emerald]

why do I appear twice in the initial list but nowhere in the current one?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: FMFT
Well that explains Dunnstral’s lurking at least

[Gamma Emerald]

Despite a member of the mafia knowing his role he didn't die, even though there weren't any other pr targets

I can’t really hard-counter any of the other points, but this falls flat with the fact that by FMFT’s own admission, they received my role info as a night result last night, making it not actionable that night.

[Gamma Emerald]

True
If FMFT flips as claimed I probably am not in a great spot
But atp I’m anticipating the true flip just about clearing me

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, since it’s already known by scum, the other part of my role is follower enabler
As such there’s not hard proof that follower exists FMPOV, but given a role with two different potential follower results flipped, it seems possible

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think all of them are scum (ssbm, free tea, and gamma), but I don’t think they’re all town either. I’m still trying to feel out what partnership would make the most sense to me. Gamma/ssbm, ssbm/free, or Gamma/free. Then I have to see which partnership makes the most sense to have Johnny in there with them.

I spotted two assumptions in this. Can you explain why you are making them?

Umm, you’re gonna have to explain cause I’m not sure what you mean.

2 scum in (me, FMFT, ssbm)
Johnny being scum

@Dunnstral I think scum follower is less likely if FMFT flips as an ungated version of what I think he will

Also I’d really like VFP to tell me how the fuck they know me because circumstantial evidence points to them potentially being someone I have sworn to destroy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Can I at least have a chance to defend myself? Like, everyone is saying I’m scum with FMFT over what, me reacting strangely to having my role outed? Maybe the fact I essentially had it outed with 0 say in the matter and then has someone trying to unearth even more info, again without me being involved?
And don’t even TRY to spin me as a traitor, because from the flips that’s absolutely not possible.

[Gamma Emerald]

FMFT probably outed a partner’s result for them

[Gamma Emerald]

But anyway, I think Kyouko has to be confirmed town at this point

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah the flips of FMFT and Dunnstral confirm no traitor exists beyond a reasonable doubt

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma did you crumb on D1 at all?

No, because I was unsure of whether I’d even claim my actual role

[Gamma Emerald]

Atp I think Lukewarm was a low-info/framing kill

[Gamma Emerald]

FMFT probably outed a partner’s result for them

it feels more likely that FMFT (perhaps unintentionally) screwed you over

Do you not think FMFT tries to run that by me in the scum PT first?

[Gamma Emerald]

Then wouldn’t you think I at least get MY act together?

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, I could probably dig in my heel on FMFT’s play, but I think my play more so runs counter to your theory rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Look at how I flailed in response to kyouko’s push for more info on my role
Do you not think I would have AT LEAST figured out the rest of what I wanted my claim to be?

Gamma Emerald - lean scum but mostly just gut

Btw, what was informing this read, assuming you hadn’t created the association between me and FMFT yet?

[Gamma Emerald]

You also seem pretty damn sure of this “head canon”

[Gamma Emerald]

Let’s note there’s a substantial period of time between the initial claim of Informed and the reveal of my role
So there was ABSOLUTELY a time where I would have been able to question him on his plans, were I scum with him.

[Gamma Emerald]

scum role cop and gamma town is suuuuuch a stretch tbh.

I’m thinking it was a scum informed that just wasn’t FMFT
I think this since my inclination is that scum are the ones who have the follower and rolecop+follower seems like too much
Think about this. My role is not a visiting role. Therefore a follower would never learn anything about it. Wouldn’t it make sense for there to be an informed aspect at that point?
Or maybe it’s some combo role, but THAT feels like pushing the boundaries of sense as well

[Gamma Emerald]

we're starting to go off the rails with what ifs but if I think he blurted informed without consulting you why do you think you can convince me you could have had any sway on what he was doing after

I could confirm or deny whether he intended to out any info about me in his claim, at least. Unless you think FMFT had literally gone insane, that was 100% doable.

[Gamma Emerald]

Town already has a cop and a backup cop. I don’t think a follower on town’s side really checks out as balanced on top of that. Plus I think my theory about informed + follower covering the spectrum of town’s power makes a lot of sense.

[Gamma Emerald]

I learned that x is a negative utility, y. I also learned that someone is role a. I knoe x y and a but not alignment of either.

It should be fine to claim. I was informed that part of gamma emeralds role is cop enabler. I was also infomed there is some role a in the setup but not the player or alignment. A is an unflippedrole.

There was a 12 hour time span between these posts

Luke was pointing right at kyouko most of the day yesterday, that's an obvious nightkill for kyouko scum

That is what happened upon me, as well.
Beyond that, I need time to regroup. I believe I’ve found my emblem of sorts for my current return to this site. It starts with these words:

Let it go, and move on.

I think I want to know why FMFT trusts me before okaying this elimination.

It kinda feels like virtue signaling?

Also feels a bit like you’re shading FMFT’s assertions, given they claimed some seemingly valuable info.

And I had posted these within that span of 12 hours. So there absolutely was time to get FMFT to reconsider if I were scum.

Can I also point out I didn’t try to take FMFT’s townread without questioning it thoroughly? I understand it probably would mean less if we were partners, but I actively considered FMFT suspicious based on such a clear being stated, because of my paranoia of scum getting info on my role.

Another thing, I think scum could also have a “cop enabler” finder rather than an Informed goon, as that is within normal parameters and can be a way of detecting my role, seeing as I think “person has this role” is a bit much for an Informed role to get.

[Gamma Emerald]

in my head canon FMFT just went for it

Looking back I honestly think this contradicts the events in-thread

Also I activated my informed ability and learned 2 things. The first thing is that there is another player with the activated informed ability in the setup. The second thing I don't know if I want to share right now.

I learned that x is a negative utility, y. I also learned that someone is role a. I knoe x y and a but not alignment of either.

It should be fine to claim. I was informed that part of gamma emeralds role is cop enabler. I was also infomed there is some role a in the setup but not the player or alignment. A is an unflippedrole.

Does this look like he “just went for it”?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well you’re fucking reaching atp

[Gamma Emerald]

i mean you also later said this

Yeah I don’t think FMFT is scum atp
This radio silence makes no sense otherwise

That was me responding to the fact the thread had stalled while FMFT was at E-2
That doesn’t change the fact his TR on me seemed questionable

Which while I’m at it, let me do this
VOTE: VFP
They’re D2 progression was absolute nonsense.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nah you definitely are
If FMFT wanted to claim something in thread like that without consulting anyone, he wouldn’t have slowrolled it like that. As such there was some rationale behind the play, meaning there was definitely a chance to talk him down. So why didn’t it happen? Can you explain THAT little issue?

[Gamma Emerald]

If he was a rogue soul, why pussyfoot the claim at all??? That’s the contradiction in your initial thought process!

[Gamma Emerald]

Not without a proper plan
Which if you’ll look at my posting here, do you think that’s what happened?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think we’ve probably reached the end of our discussion of this for now
What do you think of my assertion that kyouko is conftown?

[Gamma Emerald]

am i wrong? was he not ignoring you?

Oh so you think you’re clever, huh? Or are you just that full of yourself, despite previously asserting you’re “just presenting options”?
I know a loaded question when I see one, pal.

[Gamma Emerald]

does kyouko ask questions like he did while already knowing the answers? I don't think so

Also, I don't think "having fun" thoroughly explains such a putrid tactic

[Gamma Emerald]

I think fenny is being pretty obvtown here.
Like doubling down on a caught scum is a suuuuuuper scummy thing to do that only town does because they're proud cuz they think they caught scum :O

The issue is that im not SRing gamma's replies toooooo much. its not a level of obvtown where I'd flag down the wagon and be like no lets not but it worries me. I still think gamma is prolly scum. The number of things that have to have happened for gamma to be town is just too many and im not really willing to believe that its exactly that one very specific scenario where town gamma just got totally screwed over by scum.

yeah that might be the case on fenrir
while I hate to accept such a thing, the loaded question probably does come from town rather than scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Noraa do you think my conftown read of kyouko is off-base at all?

[Gamma Emerald]

question for you Noraa, was your head or your heart steering during Sunny 2: Impeachment?

[Gamma Emerald]

well you scumread me most of that game because I was your primary defender
so I have to say, not a good sign for this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma had a soul to soul moment there where I was like that's too similar to that game but he's pretty scummy :/ The literal page 3 TR is haunting me so much.

here's another head/heart conflict of sorts, this one from legends of the hidden temple
once again, I was town and the heart was right (this statement being drawn from the terminology "soul to soul" seemingly like a "heart"-based statement)

[Gamma Emerald]

you also SRed me in student council
Should I go on?

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway, stepping away from the dumpstering
the main reason I survived Sunny 2 was that I acted in the service of the majority's wish. I probably can't pull that off nearly as well here, thanks to a few reasons, but I still think voting me out now is probably a mistake. I would personally much rather see VFP voted out first, They haven't really towntold in any great capacity, and their voting D2 was completely nonsensical in a way that to me indicates they were having trouble holding onto a mindset. I could also do Max, but imo VFP feels more actively scummy, while Max has just been on my scumdar because of low activity
I think the last scum probably resides on johnny/italiano FYI
PEdit: but you're saying your gamestate read is that I'm scum and that's the one you're going with
that essentially means you scumread me

[Gamma Emerald]

I was asking why you thought two scum was in that group you were working with, and why you seemed certain of johnny being scum

[Gamma Emerald]

iirc andres was pretty scummy in Etymologies

[Gamma Emerald]

e was town in that fwiw

[Gamma Emerald]

just skimming johnny's D2 posting makes me think Johnny+VFP could be the last two

[Gamma Emerald]

role cop learns role, not alignment

[Gamma Emerald]

Italiano's sorting seems pretty legit rn

[Gamma Emerald]

You and him were both in spots where y’all were active but not coming across as especially towny
Since scumteams typically have at least 1 active member (unless they SUCK) I felt like scum was between you two

[Gamma Emerald]

I also just think gamma is scum now bc of the hesitancy despite gamma being pretty obvious scum?

Well this is absolutely a fair and balanced way to read into things
Would you have townread me if my wagon got speedhammered?

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s the point dumbass

[Gamma Emerald]

When did you play with me before? Because I have always been like this.

[Gamma Emerald]

Present a game as evidence or admit you have nothing, fiend!

[Gamma Emerald]

Wouldn’t be the first time someone faked meta on me to get me killed off.

[Gamma Emerald]

I can see the pressure getting to you.
Just remember, this isn't your fault! I hold nothing against you.

Nothing is “getting” to me
Either you’re faking it, scared that your main being known will make you readable, or a banned user who cannot present real evidence without risking discovery.
If you wish to prove me wrong, the only way is with evidence.

[Gamma Emerald]

On my part, I don’t believe “copying words” is a scumtell
I read a guide once that said a way to increase charisma is to try to emulate those you’re trying to convince

[Gamma Emerald]

I also just think gamma is scum now bc of the hesitancy despite gamma being pretty obvious scum?

Well this is absolutely a fair and balanced way to read into things
Would you have townread me if my wagon got speedhammered?

well if you got speed hammered, it wouldn't matter what my read was cuz I'd get the flip and finally know fs what alignment you were....

Yeah
So do you not think you’re being a little unfair to SR me for not being hammered yet?

[Gamma Emerald]

By me and 2 others
Suuuure

[Gamma Emerald]

By me and 2 others
Suuuure

This was @ Noraa’s previous post

[Gamma Emerald]

LMAO
That pretty much the same posting that reeks of scum motivation that VFP was posting yesterDay

[Gamma Emerald]

Now ur calling me scum? mmk.

No, I was reacting to VFP’s post

[Gamma Emerald]

I read UCV and FMFT’s combined ISO and the sole read I can take from it is that Noraa is town from UCV’s attempt to discredit the town reads on her

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes, I too base reads on the quantaty of posts.

Nora's posts have substance too. If she was spamming things like "POTATO!" "MELON!" "2332!" then in fact I'd SR her for spamming the thread.

But what of the content seems town? You can spew content all day and it all be scummy. I originally town read Nor for that but now reading her ISO am less sure. Definitely not sure enough to say I still townread/lean her. Still think she can be town, but judging off activity is sort of just weak.

This post is what I’m talking about
It could also be a sign that UCV slot/Max are partners

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma do you agree with my read on Fenny?

yeah

Thoughts on Ita and mon?

They didn’t really townping early, italy has done so more recently, but idk if either of them are scum, it’s currently just theoretical off of thinking one scum is probably more active than the rest

[Gamma Emerald]

Mon = johnnyfarrar

[Gamma Emerald]

What’s your read on Andres rn, Noraa?

[Gamma Emerald]

Looking over Andres’ play, I kinda feel like he has a towny arrogance to him
PEdit: why so? I know y’all went at it early, is it still based on that?

[Gamma Emerald]

i don't think VFP is scum here but i'll keep looking just in case

what's the case against VFP

VFP’s play has flip-flopped around as it has been convenient for him to do so

[Gamma Emerald]

Cool my other SR was true.

VOTE: VFP this is still most likely scum.

I don't believe Gamma is scum at least right now. VFP is the second mafia member. We can do this.

You too? Has VFP really stood out

more

than Gamma?

Is that really a fair question, given the disparity in post counts? I'm more likely to stand out given I've stuck my neck out more.

[Gamma Emerald]

To me it feels like you're trying to conclude I'm scum and VFP is town in spite of the current state of our play
In order for that to track, you're gonna have to actually explain the thought process you're having

[Gamma Emerald]

That was to be expected
Anyway, I did some overnight reading, and I think I have some leads to go on

@MaxTheFox

: Why did it seem like you were trying to steal credit for the FMFT flip?

@ItalianoVD

: Can you explain a bit more about what you meant in post 748?

@AndresVMB

: Why do you seem agitated this game?

Also, Save The Dragons goes by Fenrir as well, you can call him that

[Gamma Emerald]

That was to be expected

To be clear, this has to do with the NK

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, a likely story, but as I wrote that post you followed up that act with another retroactive justification of your play, THIS TIME stealing Noraa’s words as your own.

[Gamma Emerald]

@ItalianoVD: Can you explain a bit more about what you meant in post 748?

At the time I was maybe trying to go with the idea that Free Money was town and if he was and you were as well, I didn’t get why he would out you, not just you but anyone for that matter. I don’t see the benefit in it. Seems like something you’d try to keep to yourself; at least the specifics of that information. Obviously that’s not how I feel now.

Well how DO you feel now?

[Gamma Emerald]

I actually have 3 TRs currently

[Gamma Emerald]

I actually have 3 TRs currently

Seems steep, with 3 TRs that doesn't leave many scumteams FYPOV. Assuming your TRs are town what's the most plausible team and which member do you SR primarily/why?

If you could share TRs and reasoning as well that would be helpful

I’ll do this either after Andres comes in and answers my question or if I get tired of waiting

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, a likely story, but as I wrote that post you followed up that act with another retroactive justification of your play, THIS TIME stealing Noraa’s words as your own.

Again what am I supposed to say if I agreed with Nora's reads (besides the push on me obv)?

Agreeing with reads is one thing but you stole the stated idea that VFP was acting like a jester

[Gamma Emerald]

Where you at Andres?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm waiting.

[Gamma Emerald]

You could have at least expressed such feeling at a time where it didn’t look like you were shifting blame.

[Gamma Emerald]

Seems like you almost knew VFP was gonna flip town

[Gamma Emerald]

there's a tinfoil theory that Andres's hammer was calculated and not accidental at all

but i'm more confident in gamma

Fun fact: I agree with your tinfoil

[Gamma Emerald]

Disagree.

[Gamma Emerald]

i think it's more likely andres is scum and or town and accidentally hammered

hold up
Scum AND/OR town?
How do you see andres being potentially scum and town?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: AndresVMB
I'm doing this for several reasons

• His play this game feels strangely aggressive for no perceptible reason
  
• His switch from pushing Rlotus to me feels like he's scum who PR hunted Rlotus, stashed him away as a nightkill rather than a miselim, and then tried to use his PR read to his advantage in getting townread
  
• I feel like if he was town that hammer yesterday, if accidental, would have been presented differently. This and the next point are part of one larger idea.
  
• His push of Noraa as a VFP partner felt like he wanted to get bankshot townreads when his theory got busted. As such I think he is mafia abusing his informed status to gain TRs. I also think his knowledge of VFP flipping town is why he acted like he did after hammering. No matter whether it was accidental or intentional, I think if he really bought his VFP read (which if he was town I'd have to think he did based on the tying Noraa to VFP), he would have put on a braver face.

I also think MaxTheFox is scum because of the fact two days in a row she's reacted to the elimination flip in a bad way that looks like she's overly concerned about which flips she gets credited/blamed for.
As for my TRs I spoke of, they are kyouko, Fenrir, and ItalianoVD. kyouko and Fenrir I've talked about before, but I did night reading on all the slots I didn't already confidently TR, and Italiano's posting really popped out as towny to me, to the point where he's played well enough if he's scum that I'd accept a loss to him. As for my current opinion of Johnny McCool, he's not really a strong TR like those other three, but I kinda got townvibes from his posts and I'm rather sure of my current SRs.

By the way, I will hard-oppose any elimination that is not myself or my SRs. I'm okay getting eliminated today because I would rather not be the game-losing miselim, and I also think my reads are solid enough that they should be considered upon my townflip. Whatever you do, do not vote out any of my strong TRs in 5p limlo if I'm not alive for that.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: AndresVMB
I'm doing this for several reasons

• His play this game feels strangely aggressive for no perceptible reason
  
• His switch from pushing Rlotus to me feels like he's scum who PR hunted Rlotus, stashed him away as a nightkill rather than a miselim, and then tried to use his PR read to his advantage in getting townread
  
• I feel like if he was town that hammer yesterday, if accidental, would have been presented differently. This and the next point are part of one larger idea.
  
• His push of Noraa as a VFP partner felt like he wanted to get bankshot townreads when his theory got busted. As such I think he is mafia abusing his informed status to gain TRs. I also think his knowledge of VFP flipping town is why he acted like he did after hammering. No matter whether it was accidental or intentional, I think if he really bought his VFP read (which if he was town I'd have to think he did based on the tying Noraa to VFP), he would have put on a braver face.

I also think MaxTheFox is scum because of the fact two days in a row she's reacted to the elimination flip in a bad way that looks like she's overly concerned about which flips she gets credited/blamed for.
As for my TRs I spoke of, they are kyouko, Fenrir, and ItalianoVD. kyouko and Fenrir I've talked about before, but I did night reading on all the slots I didn't already confidently TR, and Italiano's posting really popped out as towny to me, to the point where he's played well enough if he's scum that I'd accept a loss to him. As for my current opinion of Johnny McCool, he's not really a strong TR like those other three, but I kinda got townvibes from his posts and I'm rather sure of my current SRs.

By the way, I will hard-oppose any elimination that is not myself or my SRs. I'm okay getting eliminated today because I would rather not be the game-losing miselim, and I also think my reads are solid enough that they should be considered upon my townflip. Whatever you do, do not vote out any of my strong TRs in 5p limlo if I'm not alive for that.

quoting for pagetop since I think this should get seen

[Gamma Emerald]

And you know I’m aggressive by nature. You’re acting like you’ve never seen me play before and Scum have literally pushed me in other games claiming I appear aggressive for no reason.

it feels different this game than in say Etymologies though
also, how nice of you to show up as soon as I voted you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wut

[Gamma Emerald]

wrong
Just because they outed my role D2 doesn’t mean they knew it coming into N1. Remember FMFT claimed activated informed. That means whatever it was that gave scum my role info, it was very likely something that happened N1.

[Gamma Emerald]

Here’s a question for you. How the FUCK does activated informed get anyone out of an execution?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m thinking it was the and/or

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not voting Gamma today ftr

was there a reason for this

It's not in thread yet

I want this explained, thinking about it

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh dhit hes e-1 I have a guilty on andres

VOTE: andres

Well then
Care to specify what sort of guilty it is?

[Gamma Emerald]

So we have yet another backup cop? I’m skeptical

[Gamma Emerald]

The issue is why did Kyouko decide to make this okay now if he’s scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Play, not “okay”
Apple’s autocorrect is really damn stupid when it comes to that

[Gamma Emerald]

what the actual fuck

[Gamma Emerald]

I personally am sickened by his hubris
What the fuck was he hoping to accomplish by keeping me alive another day?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Luke died because he was your only SR D1 so you killed him so you could start fresh the next day with the town cred from pulling off of RLotus prior to his execution. Noraa probably died because she suspected you. Third scum is likely not under heavy suspicion so the NKs were focused on getting you through alive. That's my theory at least, not that it matters why they died

I will say this NKA sounds valid though

[Gamma Emerald]

But legitimately if I got limmed D4 it would have helped town reset

[Gamma Emerald]

I still think Johnny could be trying to town it up with Noraa as to not set off her radar

This is just funny but I think only Noraa and I are laughing

Thinking on this I find it very odd Noraa and Johnny were back to back NKs if Italiano is scum

[Gamma Emerald]

If I thought Kyouko was ill-intentioned

the fuck?
what do you mean by ill-intentioned, because I feel like the only "ill intention" for something like that would be if kyouko were scum, and you couldn't know that.

[Gamma Emerald]

They were executed without me even getting close to an execution when I would have typically been quickly run up by Scum. That’s how bad the play was, and how unconvincing Kyouko has been all game.

this also sounds idiotic and reeks of scum trying to force an explanation for why they weren't executed that doesn't rely on that fact

[Gamma Emerald]

I'M PISSED IN MY SHOES BECAUSE KYOUKO DIDN'T NEED TO FUCKING FALL ON THE SWORD FOR ME LIKE THAT
I could have potentially handled myself, and even if I did get elimmed it would've been better than this nightmare scenario

[Gamma Emerald]

kyouko only made that move because he saw me as a miselim
so while you were the target I was the igniter of that boneheaded play.

[Gamma Emerald]

suuure
your play rn feels rather like my play in f3 of newbie 2041. Very performative.

[Gamma Emerald]

you weren't even IN newbie 2041 iirc
I'm saying your play resembles on of MY previous scum moments

[Gamma Emerald]

I will probably review Fenrir given he's the only person alive I haven't read in isolation at all at this point
but unless something major happens my opinion will probably remain mostly static

[Gamma Emerald]

why do I NK Johnny over Fenrir though? In fact I'm pretty sure Fenrir was against me D3 as well so that's two nights where I didn't kill probably the single greatest person against me if I were scum.

Btw my thinking for why johnny died is that he was a wild card who scum didn't want to risk not going their way
meanwhile I have been a viable miselim for like this entire game, which explains why I DIDN'T die

[Gamma Emerald]

you're past that, sure. I still need to figure things out.

[Gamma Emerald]

idk what it implies but it feels like town posting

[Gamma Emerald]

How the hell has Fenrir been passive towards me????????

[Gamma Emerald]

That is legitimately a load of shit.

[Gamma Emerald]

Fenrir had been strongly pushing me for like 3 straight in-game days
HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT REGISTER AS PASSIVE?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Max
No reason not to atp

[Gamma Emerald]

Bruh

[Gamma Emerald]

FMFT didn't get that information about gamma out of nowhere ugh it could be gamma

i'm not sure what you want me to answer about that first quote

i admit i was resisting a kyouko elimination strictly in favor of a gamma one. the reasoning was because i thought gamma and kyouko were scum together so it wouldn't matter the order we did them in. with kyouko not being scum and the game not being solved, it's a little trickier.

I re-read Fenrir’s posting thru ISO and it all felt about the same but this is worth note. I think this is a pretty solid indicator that Fenrir is town. I don’t think he’s lying about continuing to push me over kyouko, and in yesterday’s situation that was the pro-town move to make.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well then
Ngl I feel kinda bad for Italiano

[Gamma Emerald]

Shocked that Gamma died today after all that transpired

maybe, just maybe, you should have let that happen the previous day

[Gamma Emerald]

btw VFP sorry if I came off as rude to you, I thought you were a sworn enemy until some point after you were eliminated

[Gamma Emerald]

I at least wish we could have voted out Max before me because she was transparently scum in the final day

[Gamma Emerald]

uhhhh you've seen me fake an inno as an actual cop before
is that in the okay area?