Mini Normal 2216 | Screaming | Post-game!

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Almost50
die

[nomnomnom]

Sixth!

No vote?
Hmmm suspicious.
pedit:
he knows what he did

[nomnomnom]

1. I will be using

Teal

for my mod color. Avoid using it.

Sure!

VOTE: cyrus62

[nomnomnom]

Non fluff though, current reads:

Cyrus - wolf

Everyone else who has posted thus far - Town

Well now you ought to explain that one chief

[nomnomnom]

Non fluff though, current reads:

Cyrus - wolf

Everyone else who has posted thus far - Town

Aahahaha.....
You rolled scum, aren't you?

Does someone on a new forum that knows no one who rolls scum usually stick their neck out to push the game out of fluff?

VOTE: Seanzie

[nomnomnom]

Wagon on Seanzie seems way overblown? What am I missing?

The guy obviously knows how to play mafia so when a player like that comes in and says "I am new to this site why would I stick out my neck like this as scum?" it strikes me as potential scum who wants to sell a certain image of themselves with weird self-meta.

[nomnomnom]

They're also aware that posts like this

Nope, I'm too scared to vote because then you'll see my TMI.

are basically "sticking your neck out", I could see scum doing this for refuge in audacity sakes.

[nomnomnom]

@Seanzie

Do you mind going over your mafia journey? I wanna know more, not so much about the sites you played in, but more how you felt about the games you played, what you like, dislike, etc. Anything you want.

[nomnomnom]

why is it always the people with monkey avatars doing this

[nomnomnom]

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

Who do you think is town atm?

Nom is my top townread, and Kerset is probably second

Why do you think Kerset is town?
I find this line curious.

[nomnomnom]

I ask because I actually have scum!kerset ideas coming to mind here so I was a bit puzzled by someone townreading the slot
but I like this explanation, I think it's potentially townie
VOTE: Kerset
Let's see how this vote goes.
ftr I still think that there might be scum in the Sean/Salsabil/Cyrus trio, those interactions have a hint of "blunder" to them if that makes sense
pedit: no u

[nomnomnom]

ftr I still think that there might be scum in the Sean/Salsabil/Cyrus trio, those interactions have a hint of "blunder" to them if that makes sense
pedit: no u

Doesn't make sense to me.

I'm thinking there might be scum in you three that has acted in a really weird way, hence the weird confrontational discussion that happened in early page.
It seems most likely that there is one scum in the three of you than three townies who managed to form that discussion between each other, although that is a possibility.
A blunder in chess is a move that makes you lose, which is what I was mostly thinking of when I read the interactions. "Scums are making game losing posts here, possibly"!

[nomnomnom]

I ask because I actually have scum!kerset ideas coming to mind here so I was a bit puzzled by someone townreading the slot
but I like this explanation, I think it's potentially townie
VOTE: Kerset
Let's see how this vote goes.
ftr I still think that there might be scum in the Sean/Salsabil/Cyrus trio, those interactions have a hint of "blunder" to them if that makes sense
pedit: no u

Can you elaborate on rhose ideas?

I'm thinking kerset might be lurking scum here. He seems happy to interject in the discussion without giving any real tangible thoughts which is +scum here.
I've seen a lot of scum players take a background type of approach to the game and sometimes show up to ask a question to people. I see that potential in Kerset.

[nomnomnom]

i see kerset as more lay back town to be honest i wont vote them yet.

sean to me is feeling town like the way hes pushing feels like hes trying to short maybe a bit fast for my taste but still.

What happened to mostly having null reads a page ago?
pedit: I'm still figuring things out, mostly
I am hesitant to give townreads early on really

[nomnomnom]

pedit means you are writing things because a new post came when you tried to hit submit and you add something to your post
so let's say I wanna say "X is town" then X claims scum and I see that post when I try hitting submit, I'd probably write it like this

"X is town guys!
pedit: nevermind I guess"

[nomnomnom]

Dwlee99 is more null then town to me.
predit means they went to post but then got stoped half way though

predit. sean wanted reads super badly so im throwing out there and will change them as i see fit.

You doing something to please other players is something I don't imagine you would do as town.
VOTE: Cyrus

[nomnomnom]

I want to mention here that I actually have a potential scumtell spotted on Cyrus but I acknowledge it is completely ridiculous and won't be taken seriously.
But I actually think Cyrus is scum here and fairly convinced. Perhaps he is the scum I mentioned in the trio earlier.

[nomnomnom]

If we lim cyrus today and he flips scum I'll happily reveal the tell, mind you. I just think that if I post it right now it won't be taken seriously at all and we will go down an awkward phase where I explain my reasoning for posts and posts to come, but I have strong reasons to think this indicates scum!cyrus

[nomnomnom]

If we lim cyrus today and he flips scum I'll happily reveal the tell, mind you. I just think that if I post it right now it won't be taken seriously at all and we will go down an awkward phase where I explain my reasoning for posts and posts to come, but I have strong reasons to think this indicates scum!cyrus

because i got used to newbie games where it only takes 5?

Oh no no no you're thinking far too rational of a tell here

If we lim cyrus today and he flips scum I'll happily reveal the tell, mind you. I just think that if I post it right now it won't be taken seriously at all and we will go down an awkward phase where I explain my reasoning for posts and posts to come, but I have strong reasons to think this indicates scum!cyrus

If you're going to use this tell as a reason to vote there, I want to hear it prior to the elim, unless you have sufficiently good reasons for your vote outside of this tell.

I have other reasons but I would be lying if I said the tell didn't enter into account!

If we lim cyrus today and he flips scum I'll happily reveal the tell, mind you. I just think that if I post it right now it won't be taken seriously at all and we will go down an awkward phase where I explain my reasoning for posts and posts to come, but I have strong reasons to think this indicates scum!cyrus

... this is anti-town. Stop trying to soften the blow of your read and just share it. It's okay to share stuff saying "I admit its weak," its not okay to dangle information like this as a carrot to bait people onto a wagon.

Trust me, you don't wanna read it.
However I accept paypal donations if you wanna hear it so badly! Gotta make a living somehow eh?

[nomnomnom]

I'll share it, promise! Just not right now, it's too early to reveal my secrets, and as I said, it's a hassle and a half to explain and I wouldn't want to get in the way of your scumhunting, right?
However you can trust me. 90% sure Cyrus is scum here

[nomnomnom]

funny story i thought the same till got rolled the same role 4 tomes in a row. try typing that 4 times fast.

Yo nom is this the literal scumclaim? Was just grabbing posts for salsa read and saw this

No.
It's something much more subtle and I'm fairly sure cyrus isn't even aware of it either.

[nomnomnom]

Also this is nice my townblocc is growing, the monkey and bdsm_ultimate_detective can be both town
easy game???

[nomnomnom]

ssbm_Kyouko just ninja'd my thoughts re: Boxxxy scumreading Monkey, and I think that is a good look since Monkey is an easy push right now. I'd still like to hear ssbm_Kyouko's response to those reads they gave that I asked them about, but I'm giving this slot a townlean.

But scums offen try to go for easy push(es)??

Yes, Boxxxy went for the easy push and ssbm_Kyouko questioned Boxxxy about it, which looks good for ssbm_Kyouko.

This feels like a reach, and possibly dishonest. Cause I didn't even vote monkey, i just said I support a policy lim at end of day if they don't contribute more.

I'll share it, promise! Just not right now, it's too early to reveal my secrets, and as I said, it's a hassle and a half to explain and I wouldn't want to get in the way of your scumhunting, right?
However you can trust me. 90% sure Cyrus is scum here

VOTE: nomnomnom


In other news monkey moves to slight townlean.

Caught cyrus' scumpartner? This early??
God damn, this will be a fast game :3

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: boxxy
Imagine having called the monkey anti-town after these last posts.
Ultra town.

[nomnomnom]

noms scum tail is i got anger and i never ever get angry this would be a 1st so yes i can see why he thinks im scum from that out burst.

That's not it either.
But it looks like I won't even need to reveal anything as the scums just decided to claim for no reason?? Wowie!

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: boxxy
Imagine having called the monkey anti-town after these last posts.
Ultra town.

I have no idea what you're trying to say. I guess this is just based on some super secret tell that you'll honest to goodness share after

securing a mis-elim

????

[nomnomnom]

boxxy be like

[nomnomnom]

noms scum tail is i got anger and i never ever get angry this would be a 1st so yes i can see why he thinks im scum from that out burst.

That's not it either.
But it looks like I won't even need to reveal anything as the scums just decided to claim for no reason?? Wowie!

oh your good very good almost got me to do what i dislike. fyi i dislike meta here so much . but i almost askd if nom has even seen my 245 page game.

Unfortunately I have.
You owe me a few braincells.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: boxxy
Imagine having called the monkey anti-town after these last posts.
Ultra town.

I have no idea what you're trying to say. I guess this is just based on some super secret tell that you'll honest to goodness share after

securing a mis-elim

????

You were pushing the cyrus wagon saying you'll only reveal your tell if he flips scum. Talking all about how "its super stupid though but I think I got him." Just setting yourself up to claim "damn i guess it was stupid" when he flips town. Thus securing a mis-elim that you don't get blamed for.

you know you could have just typed "AROOOO I'M SCUM AROOOO" it's more concise and pleasant to read

[nomnomnom]

let's do boxxy guys. it's a good wagon

This is a super weird take? I've liked boxxy's posting a lot. I'm still trying to figure out nom though. I don't know if nom withholding the tell is inherently scummy but I'd really like to hear it if it's going to be justifying a scum read this early especially when it feels like cyrus town-slipped.

his reaction to me deliberately withholding my tell feels like a lot of pretending, and tbh monkey pointed out the posts earlier that are just not consistent with a town mindset
I believe town!boxxy never actually votes me there for not posting a tell. Think he's scum trying to sell frustrated town to us.

[nomnomnom]

I'm inviting monkey for a date in a restaurant after this game btw

[nomnomnom]

This is now a good music thread

[nomnomnom]

Do you think 13 is a slip?

I'll detail the slip later, it seems that I don't need to reveal it right now since scums decided to insta-claim because of it

[nomnomnom]

Pretty sure you posted monkey and cyrus as your 2 scum pile and voted Cyrus, so that's a bit more than favoring a policy lim. You also didn't propose it as a policy lim for later in the day, you said it was scum or something like that. I'm the one that brought it up as a policy lim and because I'm so against policy limming an "anti-town" player I deserve heaps and heaps of towncred

*trips*

Cyrus wasn't a policy lim, he was a scumread. Monkey was who I brought up for later in the day if they didn't add any value by then.

So not only do you not vote your scumread, you vote the guy who also scumreads your scumread because he won't tell you his super sikrit tell.
you rn [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_DCs29xw2A[/youtube]

[nomnomnom]

oops

[nomnomnom]

I'm trying to sort nom right now because our views on boxxxy are so incongruent

just why do you like boxxy so much?

most asked question of the late 2000s

[nomnomnom]

I would have shared the tell already if it wasn't for the fact that 177 sent alarm bells to my brain, so instead I just decided to bait more to see what kind of reaction I'd get, and surely enough I got VOTE: 222 which might as well be a scumclaim from Boxxy at that point.

[nomnomnom]

222*
VOTE: boxxy in case that counted as an unvote

[nomnomnom]

At this point it's not a wavelength i share with the monkey it's the entire god damn spectrum

[nomnomnom]

Can you share it for me?

y'know what I'll share it when we lim boxxy out of this earth on day 2
that is if I make it to day 2 considering that i'm probably dying tonight for this day 1

[nomnomnom]

See I'll explain to you the difference between you and boxxy, dwlee, since it seems the reason you townread boxxy at this point is because you mindmeld with him about me not sharing my tell.
You have a good reason to ask for my tell and be annoyed that I won't reveal it because you think cyrus townslipped earlier and you think he's town, so you have a good reason to ask a player that has claimed has a scumtell on that same player.
Boxxy on the other hand has absolutely no reason to be annoyed with me because he scumread cyrus by default. At best he sees it that we agree on cyrus being scum, and at worst he's slightly annoyed that I won't reveal my tell, which is understandable. However voting me is an absolute scumclaim in this situation because it makes no sense within his progression and it just feels like he's trying to sell this read as voting what he considers to be anti-town, when he has established beforehand he has scumreads, on cyrus nonetheless. This is not a scumhunting mindset. Boxxy just isn't town here.

[nomnomnom]

See I'll explain to you the difference between you and boxxy, dwlee, since it seems the reason you townread boxxy at this point is because you mindmeld with him about me not sharing my tell.
You have a good reason to ask for my tell and be annoyed that I won't reveal it because you think cyrus townslipped earlier and you think he's town, so you have a good reason to ask a player that has claimed has a scumtell on that same player.
Boxxy on the other hand has absolutely no reason to be annoyed with me because he scumread cyrus by default. At best he sees it that we agree on cyrus being scum, and at worst he's slightly annoyed that I won't reveal my tell, which is understandable. However voting me is an absolute scumclaim in this situation because it makes no sense within his progression and it just feels like he's trying to sell this read as voting what he considers to be anti-town, when he has established beforehand he has scumreads, on cyrus nonetheless. This is not a scumhunting mindset. Boxxy just isn't town here.

i will high five you, but only if you're town

high five

[nomnomnom]

Nah I don't think dwlee is scum here. I think town!dwlee makes sense given how he reacted to my whole tell stuff and just doesn't see what we see and just sees walls of posts.
I still think boxxy-cyrus are a team though. Boxxy is just pretty much the day 1 lim here unless jesus shows up and slaps me on the cheeks.

[nomnomnom]

Okay, I've read over that interaction and I see what you're talking about now. I wish boxxy was here to respond and give some updates but I feel like him not is kind of by his own design.

VOTE: boxxy

aw yis

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: cubxxy
I am convinced.

Why is that? Please share your thoughts.

I'm curious on your thoughts about boxxy and the wagon forming on him.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Boxy for being to box like

you made me spit my coffee congratulations

[nomnomnom]

Laaaaaame.
Honestly if boxxy flips town I'll be eating a sock.

[nomnomnom]

While I am confident most of this wagon is comprised of town I feel strongly that at least one of Cyrus and Salsa are scum

As I said I'm convinced that boxxy/cyrus is absolutely a real possibility
337 is also outrageous

don't you like to catch scum through associatives

I love it but honestly at this point I think all scums have talked in thread potentially so
I think I'm genuinely close to call a team, just need to think about last scum but I already have a few ideas

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: cubxxy
I am convinced.

Why is that? Please share your thoughts.

I'm curious on your thoughts about boxxy and the wagon forming on him.

I find Monkey's posts hard to follow because many of them are just quotes, no explanations. This is not good IMO since it leaves it to the reader to fill in the blanks.

Your push that Boxxy being pinged by your "I have a scumtell on Cyrus that I'm not going to voice" is also questionable. You said that Boxxy and Dwlee being pinged by that were different because of something like Boxxy having a scumread on Cyrus before and Dwlee not, but I think that is BS since I also was highly pinged by you doing that, and I have a scumream on Cyrus.

I'll have to go back and actually look at the case carefully if I want to say something sensible, but I don't like your and Monkey's little "mindmeld". It overwhelmed the rest of the thread in a way that reduced the ability for others to interact and give input and limited the free formation of reads. Maybe you two are just excited town, but I've also seen chaotic scumteams do this. Especially Monkey's "you fill in the blanks" wallposting.

monkey sees the same stuff I see and reacted the same way to the same outrageous posts people made this game, I have no doubts he is town here.
the case is very easy to follow, I don't know what you are confused about

[nomnomnom]

like this is painfully clear as a case, what's got you confused here?

Boxxy's posts aren't good. TL;DR Boxxy is positioning himself to be the town's lord and savior from these anti-town scrubs and he's gonna scumhunt the scum to infinity and beyond. I read this as scum who's trying to score towncred. This is not how town actually score towncred. Town score towncred by making an effort in actually sorting slots. But in fact, he's done the opposite — he's reading into things very superficially and focuses much more on keeping the 'tegridy of muh tuhwn.

Corroborating evidence: #200 (and my comment #208)

He also did this:
> Seanzie is dishonest
> votes nomnomnom for "anti-town behavior"
Reference: #222

He also did this:
>monkey is anti-town and should be lynched
>hahaha i was just saying that just in case!
Reference: #149 → #151 → #172 → #222 (the first part)

That's just my complaint. There's a lot of tickets from noms and Salsabil too.

[nomnomnom]

It overwhelmed the rest of the thread in a way that reduced the ability for others to interact and give input and limited the free formation of reads.

are you not free to form your reads? is the formation of reads not free enough?

Do you know about threadhealth?

I don't know about the particular term but I think that what you're complaining about here is that me and monkey mindmelded so hard and cased boxxy so hard that it made the game revolve around this. Is this what you're trying to say?
If that's it, I fail to see how that's a bad thing. Two players read each other as town and case another player, and the rest of the playerlist is convinced the case is solid enough to warrant a boxxy lynch. If boxxy flips scum we have a killer townblocc that scums can't fight because town has recognized each other very quickly and agreed with each other very quickly. How is that a bad thing?
The only bad scenario is if somehow boxxy is town, in which case I can get behind the fact you don't like the discussion being warped so hard around a player which you think is town. If that's the case I wanna see it, I wanna see why you townread the slot. If that's not the case there is no reason to make this kind of comment.

[nomnomnom]

It could quite literally just be boxxy/cyrus/sean as a scumteam, really
which means their entire early game interaction was distancing lol

[nomnomnom]

@Nom, remind me sometime later to explain threadhealth to you... if you're interested. I meant to earlier, but then I got wrapped in sorting through Monkey's case.

Sure.

[nomnomnom]

Nom what is your cyrus scumtell?

Sure, I'll reveal it since there's no use in hiding it anymore.
Keep in mind that as I said, you might consider it ridiculous but that's at your own discretion.
Look at these two posts.

I ask because I actually have scum!kerset ideas coming to mind here so I was a bit puzzled by someone townreading the slot
but I like this explanation, I think it's potentially townie
VOTE: Kerset
Let's see how this vote goes.
ftr I still think that there might be scum in the Sean/Salsabil/Cyrus trio, those interactions have a hint of "blunder" to them if that makes sense
pedit: no u

VOTE: human want to see what this gives.

To me it seems obvious that Cyrus has copied my line. I have two explanations as to why a player would do so:
1) they're scum and copying someone they know to be town
2) it indicates rapport, as in, that cyrus trusts me enough to copy my line this way, so he trusts me to be town this much, so it could very well be a scum player that knows I am town and subconsciously shows it.
That's my tell. Voila.

[nomnomnom]

Also I'm not sure I believe the claim at all.

[nomnomnom]

monkey when boxxy claimed roaming det

[nomnomnom]

Lie like that d1.

Can you elaborate on how this would be a particularly fantastic lie? What would you expect from a d1 fakeclaim?

I don't think it's fake. I ment why would he lie like that. I think boxy is telling the truth.

you think someone would do that? go in a mafia game and lie?

[nomnomnom]

Are we really doing this?
People just instantly unvoting because someone claims PR like that and they just buy it?

[nomnomnom]

Roaming Detective is one of these roles that sounds good on paper but is an extremely weak role.
And now that it is claimed you can be sure it will be 100% a useless role, so scum can easily claim that role and wifom the hell out of town, so I don't buy it.

[nomnomnom]

I've been burnt enough by scums claiming PR on day 1 after a successful push to think that the line of "let's not lynch a claimed PR day 1 guys" is a bad one.
I don't buy the claim and it's the kind of role you can claim and then use to WIFOM all game as scum.

[nomnomnom]

Let's suppose boxxy really is a town roaming det. Now the scums know that there is a roaming det. If that is the case, town!boxxy at most only gets one guilty, and that's the best case scenario.
I have absolutely no problem lynching this claim on day 1 with this in mind, because it's way more likely that boxxy claimed this role as scum with the intent of going full WIFOM on town by claiming non-guilties all game long, and that info says absolutely no info on the scumteam as well.

[nomnomnom]

If we leave the pr claim today, he definitely have to show us the night result in Day 2 if he will still alive with claiming pr.

And as I said this result will be completely useless unless
1) He really is town
2) He somehow managed to invest the player making the nightkill
3) the moment he announces he visited a member of the scumteam with a fake guilty that player is free to perform nightkills without ever being found guilty
This is the perfect kind of role for scum to claim because you can spend all your game faking garbage results and WIFOMing about scums not NKing you because of these parameters.
I don't buy the claim and boxxy is still scummy as fuck.
pedit: detective doesn't clear anyone, why would scums actually perform a nightkill there? Tell me

[nomnomnom]

The risk is too big.

Maybe because in my first game someone hinted at PR and town hung them and was on the verge of losing all game.

you'll change your mind about this whenever you'll play a game against scum that claims a PR when pushed day 1 and gets to fly by the entire game and win because "let's not lynch a claimed TPR guise!!!"
For all we know this can perfectly be a claim aimed to make any invest this game cc the claim and making them out as well.

[nomnomnom]

I'd also like to refer to this thread
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=85510
If the NRG deemed his setup to be weak with a real invest (Town Neap) I doubt the NRG approves a setup where roaming det gets to be our invest this game, assuming this is it

[nomnomnom]

Even despite the claim boxxy is still scummy as fuck so I don't see why people just suddenly mass unvote, and the PR in question definitely falls in line with a scum safeclaim so...
But I guess this is not happening. Consider me depressed.

[nomnomnom]

When I flip town roaming detective I hope you reflect on how your trash play cost us the game.

Nice fakeclaim from another site

If you actually have proof this is a fakeclaim from another site PLEASE submit it so we can turbolim the slot
please please please

[nomnomnom]

When I flip town roaming detective I hope you reflect on how your trash play cost us the game.

Nice fakeclaim from another site

If you actually have proof this is a fakeclaim from another site PLEASE submit it so we can turbolim the slot
please please please

Detective is the equivalent of a rolecop on epicmafia

If you can provide proof boxxy is an EM player I can buy that theory.
That would also explain why he struggled to describe what a detective was to monkey earlier.

[nomnomnom]

??

[nomnomnom]

As I said, roaming detective is a role that sounds good on paper but is extremely underpowered in practice and scums can perfectly claim that role and wifom the entire game, so I don't know why people are acting like he just claimed cop

[nomnomnom]

Yes, it's Rather annoying

[nomnomnom]

I'm a roaming detective

I didn't even know what Roaming was.

OK, this is a 100% TOWN claim. Detective determine3s if a player HAS killed (if the target is Mafia who has NOT killed they get a negative result). This reminds me of a game I played recently where I suggested the

Detective

Psychiatrist targets the same players twice, so if they get "Can Kill" on N1 and "Can't Kill" on N2 that's a GUILTY (Psychiatrist is the opposite of Detective), so I think Roaming was added here to prevent that sort of guilty (although it would still be more suitable used with a Psychiatrist). Ohm and that game had a BABYSITTER in it, which is why I suggested the check would be on the same person, because the babysitter would not appear to have killed until/unless they were dead themselves)

Babysitters wouldn't give a guilty in any situation because it's not an active kill.
Also I'm gonna mirror monkey's question here and ask why you think scum cannot fake that role. I think the hard part to come up with is the "roaming" modifier and it would only take a scum aware that their team (or themselves) is a roaming "something" to come up with a roaming "something".

[nomnomnom]

Like think about it too. From a setup perspective, in what situation do you decide to add a roaming modifier to a detective? Detective is already somewhat on the weaker side of role (I estimate it less useful than a tracker, taking into account the same scum makes all the same kills, which is likely in a setup where mafia isn't multitasking by default), why would you nerf it on top of that with a roaming modifier? Like now that the role is claimed you can see it has now become a role that is 90% useless unless you somehow hit the scum committing the nightkill. That is it. You are getting at most one guilty. How is that a role a moderator includes in a setup?
Normally I am wary of outguessing the mod situations but here it just strikes me as a claim that scums can easily make because it does not clear anything, and you can go the whole game without claiming a single guilty and still manage to explain how you will not die on every night by (correctly) saying your role is justifiably weak so it does not warrant a nightkill from the scums.

[nomnomnom]

Found only one game that uses it — ONE.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85074&start=200

Well okay that certainly looks like I was wrong and that some moderators think this is a perfectly valid role to include
But as shown in this setup, town has a lot of other invests and role that can confirm themselves so I guess it's warranted to have a significantly weaker detective, so hm.

[nomnomnom]

If we are not going for boxxy I want VOTE: Cyrus
He has some outrageous posts

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Boxy for being to box like

This post is all manners of weird, bad and legendary at the same time
pedit: that is what I keep saying and yet people act like he claimed cop when it's basically a non-role from where I stand

[nomnomnom]

This is the perfect kind of role for scum to claim because you can spend all your game faking garbage results and WIFOMing about scums not NKing you because of these parameters.

What if he "fakes" a "Didn't kill" result on -say- a VIGILANTE?

That assumes there's a vig in the setup
If there is a vig in the setup it's even less likely this role is in the game btw, you're not going to make me believe that not only you make a detective that is significantly nerfed but also happens to have false positives in there too

[nomnomnom]

I'd also like to refer to this thread
viewtopic.php?f=123&t=85510
If the NRG deemed his setup to be weak with a real invest (Town Neap) I doubt the NRG approves a setup where roaming det gets to be our invest this game, assuming this is it

Like, who ever gave you the idea that there's only one invest in the game?? If I was a designer I'd compliment the "Roaming Detective" with a "Novice Psychiatrist" and then toss in a 1-shot Vig to mess with them both.

It's entirely possible and to be fair that is the only thing that goes in the sense that this role is a real town role.
As I said before, the hard part is coming up with the "roaming" modifier, and the only thing it takes for scum to come up with a roaming something is for the scumteam to have a roaming something, and I could see a few roles that could be scum and roaming.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Boxy for being to box like

Was this vote a meme or what? Before and later you seem to believe in him.

it was me attempting a shitpost.

Your definition of a shitpost is putting someone at E-1?

[nomnomnom]

Your definition of a shitpost is putting someone at E-1?

It is a shit post he is successful

damn it I got epic trolled

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: nomnomnom oh its been a bit since we started a game together

as for nomnomnom scum tail i voted a different person then, them they said i copied a vote on monkey.

The tell isn't that you copied my vote.
The tell is that you copied the way i said "let's see what happens if I do this", verbatim. I have reasons to believe people only do this because they have established significant rapport with someone else, which means you trust them, which means you think they're town, and at that stage of the game I don't think that level of trust can be achieved, so I believed it is a subconscious TMI. That or you're scum copying town.

[nomnomnom]

What is Cyrus at vote-count-wise?

E-2 according to last VC

[nomnomnom]

rash b do not stop

[nomnomnom]

i was having fun regardless of putting him to e 1. i didnt think he be hammered.

why not

because if he claimed a pr people would back off.

But he didn't claim anything at that point...?

[nomnomnom]

Babysitters wouldn't give a guilty in any situation because it's not an active kill.

It did in that setup. Trust me. It was an open-setup and the rules said it would.

I believe you, but then the parameters are different, you're talking about an open setup here, and the normal rules don't account for passive kills to be accounted for a psychologist/detective. So it's a different reasoning

[nomnomnom]

it would only take a scum aware that their team (or themselves) is a roaming "something" to come up with a roaming "something".

Why would Scum be given ROAMING anything? What purpose would it serve to get scum to target one player only once??

I could think of a role that could be a bit broken if you could repetitively target the same player over and over

[nomnomnom]

seems like my tell was pretty good

[nomnomnom]

You better retract that guilty because this kind of reaction play is pretty awful.
There's literally another normal that has ended recently with someone faking a guilty and making town lose on the spot.
So I'll leave you a single post to retract that guilty, Bambi

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Bambi
There is literally no kind of guilty you can get on my slot, hard or soft.
If you don't want that guilty I don't mind going for a 1v1 so you can feel pretty stupid afterwards for doing this play

[nomnomnom]

If Bambi had a guilty she would have already said so.
She's literally still pushing my slot over how I responded to her.
It's a reaction play and I'll say it again: there is literally no kind of guilty she can possibly get on my slot.

[nomnomnom]

Bambi, please, you have no guilty, and it's obvious you're looking for a reaction out of me and to see how other people will react to you claiming a soft guilty on me. It's bad play.
Claim your guilty or retract it. I ain't playing this game with you.
pedit: interesting development

[nomnomnom]

It's a reaction play and I'll say it again: there is literally no kind of guilty she can possibly get on my slot.

I beg to differ. Bambi thought I was softing a guilty on you and decided to yolo fakeclaim it to provide me with cover.

What???
What's even going on right now lmao

[nomnomnom]

@A50 Can I know why you checked HEM?

[nomnomnom]

I softed Psychiatrist on D1

Yes, I got that much, kinda figured you softed a PR here given your insistence to justify boxxy's role in the setup.
I just wanna know why you checked HEM but I believe the claim.

[nomnomnom]

I softed Psychiatrist on D1

If I was a designer I'd compliment the "Roaming Detective" with a "Novice Psychiatrist" and then toss in a 1-shot Vig to mess with them both.

and started D2 soft-pushing you

I would have checked nom if I was you

Bambi just wanted me to stay alive, and didn't realize I was only allowed ONE guilty since the other Scum already killed. I let it play because it was interesting and it helps to see who goes with and who objects and for what reasons. I was working under the assumption both nom & HEM were scum together, but the reactions I got are enough for me to think otherwise. nom is Town

Did you mean Psychologist?

from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Psychiatrist
"The Psychiatrist is a player who can target a player each Night. If that player is a Serial Killer, that player reverts to a Vanilla Townie."


vs Psychologist:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Psychologist
"The Psychologist is an investigative role that determines a player's ability to kill."

Kind of odd to get the name of your own role wrong, unless its a fakeclaim

Well this is kinda awkward.

[nomnomnom]

Given how hard almost has been softing it I believe him.

Yeah. I believe it.
VOTE: HEM

[nomnomnom]

UNVOTE:
Christ

[nomnomnom]

P.S: I love how Nom and Monkey townread each other but did instantly vote the other when a fake guilty came up. Clearly they didn't have strong enough townreads.

If someone's claiming a hard guilty on someone regardless of my read I'm voting them

[nomnomnom]

Anyway back to business

P.S: I love how Nom and Monkey townread each other but did instantly vote the other when a fake guilty came up. Clearly they didn't have strong enough townreads.

Why would you trust your read over a guilty claim? The play is to trust the claim and kill the claimer if it was false.

I don't even... can we just kill bambi/almost50 for reckless anti-town play?

This is still scum
VOTE: Boxxy
I'm likely to believe these two fakeclaims have a high chance to come from town, so it's simple, we just have to look at how some other people reacted to this whole interaction and the ones letting everything go on are probably scum, yeah?

[nomnomnom]

I shall remind everyone that Boxxy spent the majority of his day yesterday saying I was obvious scum for holding my tell, he claimed an invest role and he hasn't even checked me last night. And he hasn't checked Dwlee either which he opened with a vote on him today.
I refuse to believe he doesn't check me here.

[nomnomnom]

Actually we probably should talk about NKA because Kyouko was one of the only players hard pushing Sean as scum and Boxxy as town yesterday.
It's a likely possibility that scums just take the easy nightkill here considering one of their scum partners is down.

[nomnomnom]

I think scum must be logically be in between boxxy, sean and Salsabil.
I triple checked Kyouko's iso and there doesn't seem to be any obvious crumb so the only sensible reason that kyouko dies here is because kyouko established some kind of threat to the scum team.
Sean also immediately tried to push boxxy today so it's entirely possible that boxxy is town and sean has killed Kyouko for the double threat of not only being scumread by him, but also because they happened to think boxxy was town.
That's what I think so far, so I need to do a deep dive.

[nomnomnom]

I think scum must be logically be in between boxxy, sean and Salsabil.
I triple checked Kyouko's iso and there doesn't seem to be any obvious crumb so the only sensible reason that kyouko dies here is because kyouko established some kind of threat to the scum team.
Sean also immediately tried to push boxxy today so it's entirely possible that boxxy is town and sean has killed Kyouko for the double threat of not only being scumread by him, but also because they happened to think boxxy was town.
That's what I think so far, so I need to do a deep dive.

That doesn't make sense, If sean is scum, and I'm town and sean kills kyouko I wouldn't have gotten a "sean has not killed anyone" result last night.

You don't have a hard clear on Sean it's entirely possible he was not the scum performing the nightkill.
That might be a very likely possibility if sean happens to be a scum!pr because this game is not multitasking by default.

[nomnomnom]

UNVOTE:
Give me time to check a few things first, I think I need to do a deep dive of this game.

[nomnomnom]

So I'll say this beforehand: another reason why i think there could be scum in Sean/Salsabil is because I know for a fact that scum!cyrus actually has a tendency to hard distance with his partners and initiate a lot of discussions with them.
That was his defining trait in a game where he was eliminated day 1 for being very obviously scum.
viewtopic.php?p=11165856&user_select%5B ... #p11165856
He has talked A LOT that way to sean and salsabil so this makes me think that these two slots could be scum. Potentially both of them. This is not something to ignore, I tend to have a strong meta on Cyrus.
I have to remind town that the first reason I suspected Cyrus is because of this weird interaction with Sean

Dwlee99 is more null then town to me.
predit means they went to post but then got stoped half way though

predit. sean wanted reads super badly so im throwing out there and will change them as i see fit.

The change of read from him on Sean was also very weird, you might chalk it to "scums pretend and it doesn't mean anything about sean" but Cyrus has a meta where he tends to distance hardcore early on and it fits that narrative.
So I think perhaps we should lynch in Sean and Salsabil. I'll do a deep dive of Salsabil because I have Sean's posts a bit fresher in my mind.
pedit: Possibly, but I think NKA could also be much simpler than that. It's WIFOM but my intuition tells me kyouko was not killed because of a PR threat.

[nomnomnom]

I think it also makes a lot less sense to consider Kyouko was a NK because he represented a PR threat because boxxy claimed a very real PR that can get guilties. I think if scums killed with the intent of eliminating PR threats, then they would have killed town!boxxy. That's one of the reason why boxxy might be scum here and why I think it's still very likely.

[nomnomnom]

One of the things that can point to town!boxxy is that, as I said, Roaming Det is a very weak role that doesn't hard clear anyone. The easiest way for scums to determine if they're safe is to see where town!boxxy is going to investigate. At the time he was pushed he declared that one of me, HEM, Salsabil or Dwlee must have been scum ("there must be scum on my wagon"). Unless the other 2 scums happen to be in that group of 4 it means that it's safe to assume one of these targets is going to be checked for scums. And that's pretty much why I didn't like letting the slot live because it's obvious that if scums have a semblance of a brain they can let the slot live if he's town, or get to live if he's scum and rely on this kind of WIFOMy logic.

[nomnomnom]

nomnomnom, what's your take on A50?

I'm in the midst of rereading his ISO because this struck me as odd

Now Psychologist catches scum who have the ability to kill but has not yet. This means BOTH SCUM need to kill to eliminate the threat of Psychologist. Not knowing what modifiers the Psychologist has may have confused scum. This is part of why I now believe you are Town,

I checked his ISO and he definitely did say "novice psychiatrist" so this kind of weird explanation for town!me (as in "you wouldn't know what modifiers I would be and it would have confused scum! Town!") leaves me a bit perplex.

[nomnomnom]

Just to be clear, the part that leaves me with a bad impression is that it feels A50 feels like he's almost trying to make sure why he thinks I'm town when the previous reason he said earlier was perfectly clear.

[nomnomnom]

This is hard but if I need to choose I think Sean must be it.
The biggest tell is that he thought cyrus was scum but never re-addressed that ever after the opening sequence of the thread. And as I said, Cyrus is someone who likes to distance a lot and interact a lot with his partners.
It wouldn't surprise me if these two went on that idea early on. The hardest part about this kind of play is that usually scums can't keep that up and it shows (and it's one of the weaknesses that I noticed when I did a similar play when I was partnered with Vorkuta and we went for an overly dramatic scum theater early game). I just think it makes the most sense.
VOTE: Seanzie

[nomnomnom]

I checked her as well. I'm also mixed on her ISO. There's a bunch of nothing said but that might be posting style coming into play.
She hard pushed cyrus from beginning to end, and the only thing she was really adamant on was that her and cyrus were not partnered and entertained that line of questioning seriously. Scum could realistically be there.
Do me a favor: could you ISO the two and determine which one of the two is scummier? I really think either of them is a good push. It's just extremely likely at least one of them is scum. I am not writing off the possibility they actually might all be scums too because those are 3 players who represent the possibility of pulling this sort of play off.

[nomnomnom]

Cyrus is a player that likes distancing, Sean is someone that has gone over his playstyle and has described himself as a gambitting player, and I have the deep intuition that Salsabil is someone that likes being smart as scum and it's not outside of the realm of the possible for scum!her to propose the entire scumteam to argue with each other.

[nomnomnom]

While I am confident most of this wagon is comprised of town I feel strongly that at least one of Cyrus and Salsa are scum

Fot the argument's sake, assuming

cyrus62

is the town between us, how it makes me scum to you?

Like this is the post that gives the most explanation as to why Kyouko was killed.
If Salsabil went into this game with the intent of hard bussing Cyrus, a player that has this kind of read could be a real threat.
I legitimately could see Salsabil being scum here. This aligns with what I would expect out of a player like her rolling scum.
VOTE: Salsabil
Maybe this makes more sense. I've seen some townie posts in Sean's iso, particularly his colored wallposts felt like real town tryharding at the time.

[nomnomnom]

"That's not why I'm scum, I bussed my partner so I deserve towncred."

If you can't see that Cyrus' reaction to me calling him a wolf was genuine, you need to get your eyes check.

See I can't believe that. Cyrus is not that kind of player. He's actually not that bad of an actor and he's legitimately distanced with his

entire team within his first few posts in previous games.

He also reacted ultra weirdly to you insisting to ask for reads and it felt so fake that it was at that point I started pushing him, and it wouldn't actually surprise me this could have been something scum!you would have planned out with him in a scum pt.

[nomnomnom]

I said something that Cyrus clearly wasn't ready for, and he reacted like a wolf caught for (what he interpreted as) the wrong reasons by town. That isn't distancing.

If that's the case then why didn't you mention any of this yesterday when this happened?
All I see is that you apologized to him.

[nomnomnom]

By the way I actually hope in the back of my head that my wild theory about these 3 being scums together is real because that would mean this post is pretty funny

ftr I still think that there might be scum in the Sean/Salsabil/Cyrus trio, those interactions have a hint of "blunder" to them if that makes sense

[nomnomnom]

While I am confident most of this wagon is comprised of town I feel strongly that at least one of Cyrus and Salsa are scum

Fot the argument's sake, assuming

cyrus62

is the town between us, how it makes me scum to you?

Like this is the post that gives the most explanation as to why Kyouko was killed.
If Salsabil went into this game with the intent of hard bussing Cyrus, a player that has this kind of read could be a real threat.
I legitimately could see Salsabil being scum here. This aligns with what I would expect out of a player like her rolling scum.
VOTE: Salsabil
Maybe this makes more sense. I've seen some townie posts in Sean's iso, particularly his colored wallposts felt like real town tryharding at the time.

Salsabil's latest scum game (and short enough too)

Also, I don't see what you're saying. ssbm said at least one of them is scum (implies both could be), but she responds with "assuming cyrus62 is the town between us, how it makes me scum to you?" which assumes cyrus town and doesn't account for his actual flip. It's not like she said "how can I be scum if he flips scum?"

I'm saying I am at least 90% sure that there is a busser in Salsabil and Sean and that it's kind of weird to make a post like that when there was no partnership mention before from Kyouko.
It makes the most sense in this gamestate. In a world where boxxy is town, the fact that both me and monkey survived (two players who have pushed the hardest to lim the slot) and that kyouko didn't (one of boxxy's defender) is also another good reason to NK there. I just think it makes the most sense.
I'll also be honest here and say that we're entering in the part of the game where I second and triple doubt myself and add a bunch of people to my suspect list and that usually makes me go nuts. I like to imagine the question "if I was vig, where would I shoot here?" and the question is always in Salsabil, Sean and boxxy. So I want to push there.

[nomnomnom]

I'll ask the same from you A50 that I asked to monkey. Do me a favor and ISO the two, and tell me who you think is scummiest, or if you think one of them is more likely to be town, feel free to point at those posts too.
pedit: I remember well which is why I have the "play like a vig/venge" philosophy

[nomnomnom]

Like, I think we should look for someone who was quite unlikely to be checked by the Detective to have carried out last night's kill, and then try to ISO them against cyrus

The literal only townread boxxy ever gave was on Seanzie. Do you see where I'm going with this?
Boxxy's iso contains not much of substance which could potentially put scums in a weird position if he's town, because his only reads were that there was scum in {me, salsabil, HEM and Dwlee}, and seanzie town. That's the only info scums would be working with in that world.

[nomnomnom]

Which makes it all the weirder that boxxy checked Sean, by the by. And why I still think it's very possible boxxy is not town.
There's a method to the madness you know.

[nomnomnom]

The way Boxxy answered to people thinking that targeting Sean n1 was a horrible play is also weird. You'd think someone who is a PR and is told their target is a horrible choice would give a reasoning as to why they targeted Sean here. But that's not how he answered the question at all, and he actually still hasn't addressed that.
A likely explanation for this move is that scums could know Sean's role through a PR and whatnot, and claim something that is easily confirmed by town!sean.
The answer is in Sean/Salsabil/Boxxy. I am 100% convinced of this. To me it's a matter of where the scum is more likely to be, and where we gain the more information.

[nomnomnom]

How are you clearing Almost50?

Who said I did?
While you are here, I'm actually curious

humaneatingmonkey

nomnomnom

Kerset
MaxTheFox
Bambi Jay
Dwlee99

T3

Salsabil Faria
boxxy
Almost50

Seanzie

I wanna know why you isolated T3 there.

[nomnomnom]

How are you clearing Almost50?

Who said I did?
While you are here, I'm actually curious

humaneatingmonkey

nomnomnom

Kerset
MaxTheFox
Bambi Jay
Dwlee99

T3

Salsabil Faria
boxxy
Almost50

Seanzie

I wanna know why you isolated T3 there.

T3 has done very little, and has done nothing that has made me think that he is town, whereas I have had at least some good feelings about everyone above T3. On the other hand, he has done so little that I also couldn't really make a case that he is scum, but everyone below him I can point to specific things that make them >rand!scum.

Glad you clarified.
VOTE: Sean
I think you represent the kind of textbook scum who is more interested in trying to cast shade on the most people you can, rather than actually solving.
In fact, the very fact that Kyouko being one of your very few townleans on day1 speaks volumes as to kyouko dying.
It also puts a big question mark on most of your posts on day 1 asking for a bunch of people their townreads, while having essentially none yourself.

[nomnomnom]

Yehhh... you aren't reading my posts, are you? I had given multiple townleans and no one else had given any before I asked that question?

Unfortunately I have. Multiple times even. I've mostly ISO checked people a big majority of today

[nomnomnom]

Uhh... what are the rules on this site about mentioning things from ongoing games?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30908

[nomnomnom]

Gut is saying Seanzie is town right now

Let's do it this way: convince me that Sean is town.
As I said, I think all 3 of Salsabil/Sean/boxxy are good lims today, so if you have an actual strong reason to believe he is town, show it to me.

[nomnomnom]

It was performative

It quite literally caught scum.

[nomnomnom]

What was so good about my play, by the way? I'm curious.

[nomnomnom]

What was so good about my play, by the way? I'm curious.

Can you tell me about Almost50? I asked you about them earlier, and you didn't really answer. Why do you see them as town? If I am wrong about them, I'd like to know.

I didn't say they were town. I said where I wanted to vote.
There are worlds where A50 is scum, definitely. But even if that's the case, I largely think it's irrelevant in my solve here. At least one of you/Salsabil/Boxxy is scum. That is all I know and all I care about, really.

[nomnomnom]

This is a team game, y'know.

Correct, and I believe you're not on my team. Why should I collaborate with you?

[nomnomnom]

Anyways, logging off. Need to rest head :3

[nomnomnom]

Another thing, if I were scum, cyrus62 wouldn't play like this.

Explain?

[nomnomnom]

The thing to keep in mind is that Kyouko was also townread by a bunch of people, including me. Since me and monkey were basically leading day 1, that could have just been it.

[nomnomnom]

Okay so I'm gonna start working on doing some ISOs throughout the morning. Before I start though, I don't know if I agree with you on 975 that Cyrus is a good actor. I think this will impact my reread of the wagon so could you explain why?

I mainly said that because people tend to have the wrong idea on the guy and townread/scumread him for a few weird reasons.
I wouldn't exactly call him excellent, but his "??? townie" demeanor can easily fool people. The only reason I caught him here really is because of something I know he wouldn't do as town and a tell I had on him. Otherwise I think he's actually a bit harder to read than what people would think.

[nomnomnom]

Look, I'm starting to think that perhaps we had it right the first time and that VOTE: Boxxy is just the play
This is the highest info flip. If we don't make this slot flip we are potentially allowing scum to wifom the hell out of this slot until the rest of the game, because as I said, this is a role that can legitimately get to the endgame.
It's happened to me before in games. I think this has got to be the best choice.

[nomnomnom]

Moreover a lot of slots had thoughts about Boxxy and actually took a hard stance on him. This allows us to more easily examine those slots in the future and get a deeper insight on what their intents were from the get go.
If he flips town then we have a bunch of things to analyze on day 1 and we could reasonably assume that there might have been someone on day 1 that bussed cyrus and tried to push boxxy as an alternative until Cyrus became inevitable.
If he flips scum the game is pretty much won from here on out and we can hard established town slots.

[nomnomnom]

See the thing about salsabil is that her defending Sean here, despite the reason being bad, is actually very townie, so it gives me pause on Salsabil.
I would expect scums to keep their options here, and a lot of people are okay with a Sean lynch here. Why does scum!salsabil decide to hard defend Sean here is the question.

[nomnomnom]

Reads and stances don't matter. It's how they got there that makes a difference.

Sure, what do you think is dodgy's about Salsa's reads here?
I'm also pointing out that if you think Salsa is scum, then there is a much much higher chance that she is scum with sean because otherwise hard defending sean is a risky move here.

[nomnomnom]

Please read through them still. It's not established that boxxy is the lynch and I still believe there is one scum in sean/salsa/boxxy. There simply must be.

[nomnomnom]

is the lim* god damn it

[nomnomnom]

Plus see it this way, this game might be extra easy if Boxxy is scum because in that world, Bambi's fake guilty on me might have been a ploy to distract the town into going for utter nonsense

[nomnomnom]

Cyrus is a force of nature. That's the answer

[nomnomnom]

Plus see it this way, this game might be extra easy if Boxxy is scum because in that world, Bambi's fake guilty on me might have been a ploy to distract the town into going for utter nonsense

If I really wanted a fake guilty I would've picked a WAY easier target. Salsa even admitted to not being able to be here to defend herself, and was in a weaker position gameplay wise.

I thought you could defend yourself better so I don't accidentally kill ya as a town. But if you were scum we were gonna be left with only 1 left. So uh. Didn't go to plan until Almost bailed me out.

Re-read what I said. The thing about this fake guilty is that you said it yourself, you wouldn't want it to have reached a conclusion anyway (as in, a lim). So I see it from my pov that it could have been a scum ploy to distract the town by not only distracting them from the current subject of conversation, but also put scrutiny on my slot which is valuable given the amount of people that townread me in this game and that I powertowned my ass off
I actually have a better question for you:
what do you think of the wagon forming on me the way it did? Do you think anyone on my wagon back in early day 2 had scum on it? Think about this and give me your answer.

[nomnomnom]

I would never do something this ballsy, so I have trouble wrapping my head around the idea of other people doing it.

The most important thing in a game of mafia is to establish what kind of scum players people would be if these people rolled scum.
Sean and Salsabil? I would totally see them doing this kind of stuff. They're the types of scum players who like refuge in audacity and stuff like that. I know this. They just scream they're that type of player to me

[nomnomnom]

What would Almost50 be as scum?

A50 as scum would be someone that uses his troll appearance to push agendas for his scumteam, I feel like. Which is why he's still in the back of my mind for scum, but I don't think he's a lynch for today.
The thing about scum players like A50 is that if he's scum here, then his agenda will become apparent later on. It would just be a matter of rereading.

[nomnomnom]

What is being suggested though is that at the beginning of the game, scum!Sean immediately pushed Cyrus, and then Salsa and Cyrus counter bussed him, and the day culminated in Cyrus getting hard bussed by both Sean and Salsa. Calling each of the scum buddies scum to start the game just seems like way more attention than scum should want.

You have to take into account that if boxxy is town here, then these players also took the opportunity to try and push a lynch there when it was offered as an alternative. Scums wouldn't want to necessarily want to lynch Cyrus from the get go, but distancing has become the number 1 thing scums go for, and I've noticed some amount of distancing in a lot of recent scumgames. At that point of the game it's completely uncertain that town actually lims cyrus for day 1.
There's a reason why i think boxxy is a very high info flip here.

[nomnomnom]

Well I guess I'll make it clear I townread Box and won't vote him (unlike SOME people) today at all. If we actually listen to Nom and Monkey and co, and elim one of our PRs and scum shoot Almost so we lose both our investigatives

How can you be so sure that these two players are telling the truth?

[nomnomnom]

the scum were informed of the existence of the psychiatrist.

we would have gotten a hard counterclaim

I think what he means is that scums could be informed that this game has a psychologist, so scum!boxxy claims detective just so it can be believed by the psychologist claim. However I find that unlikely, as informing the scumteam that there's a psychologist basically makes the role way less possible. If everything is true about A50's role, this gives the scumteam two nights to generate innos on themselves. That does seem to make no sense in terms of setup design.

[nomnomnom]

Again, it doesn't matter to me. Salsa/Sean/Boxxy are all good lims and I'll go for any.
I have a slight preference for Sean here again because I know for a fact that Cyrus likes to distance a lot with his partners and it might be more of a psychological thing where he would actually be way too anxious as scum to make posts like he made his game towards actual townies.

[nomnomnom]

The preference is if we were to believe that all the claims so far have been genuine, that is. So yeah.

[nomnomnom]

Furthermore, if any of you want to believe that boxxy is town, then that means that anyone that was on boxxy yesterday could be scum. And yes that includes me and HEM. But Sean and Salsa have more dodgy reads towards boxxy and it feels like real opportunism.
Just keep that in mind, and that Cyrus likes distancing early with scumpartners because he is scared of doing those sorts of interactions with townies, and you have a good picture of who is the remaining scum
VOTE: Sean

[nomnomnom]

I don't believe you need to read his scumgames to establish he is very likely scum here.
There are multiple things that corroborates this:

• Cyrus likes to distance with scumpartners. One of cyrus' very early game interaction was Sean.
  
• If boxxy is town, then his interaction regarding boxxy, which was to basically using him to discredit both me and HEM (especially me) and yet say "I still don't trust you!" is incredibly scummy oriented, as it creates a paranoia situation towards the 3 slots.
  
• Sean has a legitimate reason to NK kyouko here. Not only because it would leave town!boxxy alive (which me and HEM were adamant on pushing) but also because Kyouko established a significant threat to scum!sean

That's a lot of things pointing towards scum!sean here.

[nomnomnom]

Mind you, a lot of these points also apply to Salsabil.

[nomnomnom]

I want to vote boxxy but this post makes me to think again, so I'll not touch him atm or any of my townreads and townlean.

And that leaves you with who to vote?

[nomnomnom]

Salsabil I have a townread on because she seems like she genuinely is hunting / caught scum!Cyrus and I'm not voting there today l.

Normally I would agree, but you have to keep in mind that if boxxy is town, then Salsabil also took the immediate opportunity to vote there with me and HEM. It's not as clear as "it seems she caught cyrus organically".

[nomnomnom]

nomnom, I have been re-reading, and I can share it now but I'm still on an early page. But with what I have, I'm good with Seanzie now and I think it's unlikely that Salsabil is Cyrus' partner.

Go in detail with what changed your mind on both those slots. I find that important.

[nomnomnom]

Sean vs Cyrus
• #42 is tonally off and too defensive for the subject matter. I'm not sold that he's angry as he explained in #49. My impression is that there's a possibility he's putting a performance on with a scum partner (Seanzie).
• #51 eggs on nomnomnom against Seanzie. If Cyrus like distancing, this is a distancing moment. Could also be Cyrus trying to get a Seanzie miselim.
• #56 is tonally okay from Seanzie, but not outside fakeable for an experienced player.
• #76 and #83 solidifies that this is scum theater. Who gets an emotional reaction from being called wolf in mafia? The fact that he calls him scum multiple times and hasn't voted until #110 speaks magnitude on this interaction.

Salsabil vs Cyrus
• #50 gives me a strong "anti-TMI" impression. Salsabil would have seen what the case against Cyrus was clearer, because she would have known that Cyrus is scum. Also, I have the impression that #54 is a genuine response coming from Cyrus appealing to town. So this is a point against Salsabil and Cyrus being partners.

Scum
Seanzie
• Weird to conclude that Cyrus is wolf and everyone else is town at post #26.
• Seanzie strengthens his townread on nomnomnom at #52. My impression is that it's a weird conclusion to make when someone's trying to elim you, if you are town. He hasn't even sorted through nomnomnom's motivations yet. Therefore, I think there's a possibility that it's an actual effort to pocket nomnomnom.

Town
Dwlee99
• #37, #55, Dwlee99 demonstrates in his posting someone who has been trying to sort the slots at a reasonable capacity that he can as town.

You know I'll 100% be honest, sometimes I have fleeting thoughts that you could reasonably scum and I'm being pocketed hardcore but these kinds of posts make me feel slightly less anxious about you, and like, actual townie attempt to solve

[nomnomnom]

Another thing that indicates scum!sean is how he acted in the midst of Bambi's and A50's early day play of today.
This is the only post he posted during this whole interaction:

You're a novice psychologist?

This reeks of scum who does not know what's going on and prefers not to get involved in the discussion. From my POV, Bambi brought up a guilty on me at the time and I knew it wasn't true, so a real scum player would know it's not true as well and would want to wait what the hell is actually going on.

[nomnomnom]

/shrug
I still think there's a hint of truth to what I'm saying though. Scums know I am not scum, so Bambi's play is either a scum gambit, or she's town and scums should have been confused. That severely influences scum posting, so it's an angle to consider here.

[nomnomnom]

It's not a stretch.
If I am scum and someone claims a guilty on someone I know to be town I'm definitely going "wtf????" in my PT at the very least

[nomnomnom]

Meh, I don't have any strong suspicions on the slot. Relatively new player.

[nomnomnom]

I hate to break it to you but NKA and associative tells are actually a very big part of scumhunting

[nomnomnom]

Another tpr claim after a push on someone? Damn, town really is unlucky huh?

[nomnomnom]

I'm combined bodyguard hider (or whatever it is called)

????

[nomnomnom]

Anyway, it is obvious to me at least one of the people who have claimed is lying. Not a chance all these claims are true.

[nomnomnom]

I still think it's a lim here. Sean is way more interested in highlighting how townie he thought he appeared plus going full emotional rather than establishing any other kind of read, or push on someone else. It's entirely possible that this is town but that, and the fact that it's extremely unlikely the three claims are actually real, I think it's still a safe hammer.
I still find it funny that two of the people who have almost reached hammer have claimed a TPR

[nomnomnom]

if sean flips town then it's almost certain that one of A50 and boxxy are lying. Boxxy has more chances to be scum in that world.
We need that high info flip and then the game is pretty much solved at that point.

[nomnomnom]

Sad game. Oh well.
GG scum!