Situation Room [Game Over!]

[UNOwen]

Trust:
Bell
Dannflor
Bingle
Dusa

Don't Trust:
Cupcake
Yuri
Hypo

ok, y

y u?

The Dannflor push is not very convincing and you've not given good justification for why you would believe it. The assertive/less assertive thing is a characterization of his play, I don't see an argument from you for why it's scummy. The only other point you've offered is that some of the notes in his big list were lazy. Dann comes across as the type of player who would be capable of typing out paragraphs on any player in the game if he had to, it doesn't seem a stretch to assume that the most flippant comments would either be revisited or that there's more to them than he posted. (And throwing in the Gamma wagon stuff with one liner reads feels a bit disingenuous, I thought the meta explanation was reasonably thoughtful).

Also,

Spoiler:

Thanks for this reply, I see where you're coming from a bit better. I think we may have a clash of playstyle/philosophy here, IMO usually (but especially early game) you gotta just take what people give you at face value, if you invent motivations/narratives for why someone's play is scummy you can almost always come up with a plausible scum-agenda explanation for a lot of town play and IMO that's what scum use to their advantage to push fake scumreads

another question, how likely do you think it is that all five players who voted Gamma are town?

VOTE: Solo

I think it's less likely a scum!Hypothermia is upfront about inventing motivation so explicitly, I don't detect any self-consciousness there

I think Solo's townrerad on Oka might be fake, I was debating whether to wait for an answer from Solo on my question re:Bell and whether there was an acknowledgment to some of the pushback on that read, but I'ma go ahead and vote cause I don't like my Hypothermia vote anymore.

Solo, how much mafia have you played previously?

dislike this from GL but not totally sure why

not so much for the specific content as I dislike the pattern of interaction?

initial pings were that his reasons for the hypo vote were bc of "feeling reachy" when it was like 6 pages in and

any

substantiation of a read atp is going to be reachy if it's going beyond "something seems off about X" and it just feels like the immediate backoff from that to it being a "clash of playstyle/philosophy" just not what I'd expect from GL who iirc is reasonable with people but also tends to want to interrogate things when they ping him

so the handwaveyness is maybe what's bothering me here rather than him like, examining further whether he thinks hypo is doing what he says he thinks scum often try to do re inventing narratives/motivations

you push GuiltyLion for backing off in the first quote, while completely ignoring his reasoning from the second. It would be one thing if you didn't believe GuiltyLion would find the upfrontness that townie for whatever reason, but to not mention it at all looks sneaky.

[Dannflor]

I’m interested in what has changed wrt STD and what your take is on Solo. I’m also interested in seeing where your Hypo push leads, but am uninterested in joining you atm.

I'm not inspired by the STD wagon really

I don't hard town read him but there are other places I'd rather push.

Solo is in the same bucket as Hypothermia and maybe Qoobee where they're just kinda posting luke-warm takes and not really pushing anything like they mean it. I did like the small detail that they picked up on Oka's drop in activity, but that doesn't really mean anything on its own.

The timing of voting me when he did seems immediately towny? Scum are usually far more conscious of their own continuity regarding reads because it tends to be manufactured. The fact that Solo voted me while stating he had me as a town read multiple times isn't really scummy but more something I'd expect a townie to do in response to Yuri's prodding. It's the same reason I'm suspicious of Hypothermia's hesitancy to vote me. I do want some explanation from Solo on his reads list but not because I look at it and think its immediately bad. It feels like you're picking at inconsistencies that are surface level scummy but inconsistencies that the average scum would never willingly make because it obviously stands out.

[Dannflor]

UNOwen why do you trust Bingle?

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh yeah Dannflor is town.

[UNOwen]

I think that STD reacted poorly, Dann had a concerning vote, and you had a pretty townish response in trying to suss out my motivations, particularly when I ignored your interrogation and you didn't let it drop or immediately use it as a method of shading/discrediting me.

I liked the comment about your vote being concerning. It felt like something that scum wouldn't bother mentioning since he had you as a town read and wasn't making any attempt to shade you before that I remember. The out of the blueness makes it look genuine.

[UNOwen]

Although admittedly until just now I also thought you had voted before Bingle gave his read list which had you as town, so while I still like the post consider the read lessened.

[Dusa]

Slow down! I don't have legs!

[Dusa]

well town and scum are the only two options

he's challenging Dusa that she hasn't responded to anything he's said. I think scum on the whole are a little more-selfconscious to do that, especially since what he had done between her vote and that post wasn't really all that radically town in nature. So I think it's more likely he

is

town and genuinely a lil frustrated Dusa didn't seem to re-evaluate at all

I am mad at you because I think Solo is in the wrong! However, you are not wrong! You can be wrong and still be good!

[Dusa]

so the handwaveyness is maybe what's bothering me here rather than him like, examining further whether he thinks hypo is doing what he says he thinks scum often try to do re inventing narratives/motivations

I can see where you're coming from here

the thing is they openly admitted to doing the thing I thought scum is more likely to do which kinda disarmed me and also removes any direction for further interrogation. I may revisit this and think more about it but at the time it was kinda like "you invented motivation that wasn't there, scum use that to push fake reads", "yes I did invent motivation, that's scumhunting I think", and there wasn't really much more I wanted to probe beyond that, at least not at that moment. And it was easier to imagine her posting what she posted as town, which was the main original sticking point.

knowing that alt is Ydrasse now I'm a little less certain what to make of it because she's got a lot of finesse as scum... but at the time it just felt honest to me and I think regardless of her alignment I wasn't gonna be able to pull anything more from her on that point because we both agreed on the reality of what she was doing

I'm so confused! I thought she confirmed she was Demeter!
She's posting very brainy this game! .
Bad Ydrasse plays simple!

[Dusa]

i lost myself in the train of thought but the specific reason why i think its contradictory is that someone who shuts down mech talk is not someone who claims to will sheep someone else's mech plan later i think. i think you just ignore mech talk in that case.

OkaPoka! Will you provide me golden fleece?!?!?!

VOTE: Yuri

[Dusa]

and looking on it you were legit the first person to sign up so i really doubt anyone has a personal issue with you at all this game and you've played with like everyone so nobody is going to find out that they have a personal issue and so like no need to think about it

Gamma is at level 4 on my affection track! Ambrosia steps are unlocked!

[Dusa]

why? I don't think so myself

I retract the read, in trying to find the example for you I realized that I conflated two players as Guilty Lion, so of course the progression made no sense

I think you are good! Or at least if you are not good, GuiltyLion is probably good!

[Yuri Gagarin]

for you, i find your entire approach to Dann here weird, and I’m not sure what to make of it. Dann isn’t someone I think of as having strong reads, certainly not the the extent that he should be left alone to work, and given your familiarity with him I also find it off that you’re not interested in pressing on any of the difference he’s showing here vs recent games

I also think he’s being inconsistent in a way that’s still bothering me in that it’s like he can’t pick a tonal approaxh and is flitting back and forth between his standard deepwolf charm approach and the more assertive harder look which I don’t think I’ve ever seen from him before

it's true my usual vector of getting playing town is ability to get town read, my reads are inconsistent at best

regarding the second point, what you're seeing as inconsistency is most likely my inability to hard commit to the more assertive style because uh, I've never done it before

What did you see from Hypo/Ydra that you town read?

so what do you make of bingle suggesting that you have the strongest read strength of anyone in the pl?

mmm, okay, like I can see how it could be that I'm reading into you not really being used to playing like that and defaulting back into what seems natural, I've had that when I've been trying out a different style before

I liked some of her posts when catching up (had to go back and check but I think it was like 315 and the couple after that that rung to me as a town way of thinking about what was happening) but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't largely her reaction to realising who I am where I think she would be uh

significantly less enthusiastic about realising that I'm in the game if she were scum and probably working me more than she actually is? like she was cheery about it but I don't feel like she's been playing around me at all and that reads as +town for her

[Dannflor]

so what do you make of bingle suggesting that you have the strongest read strength of anyone in the pl?

I think it's sus especially given that half the player list is playing under (what I suppose are secret) alts

[Dusa]

I think LavarManos is town! When he shared thoughts earlier it seemed like he had had them all along!

I'm behind! Please forgive me!

Are you saying this just to be a devil's advocate or do you actually think he has been townie?

I thought he made a townie post! He has been posting not so much! However! Gods are slaves to their natures! I bet he always doesn't post much!

[Dusa]

so what do you make of bingle suggesting that you have the strongest read strength of anyone in the pl?

I think it's sus especially given that half the player list is playing under (what I suppose are secret) alts

Do you have a different name in other cultures!?!?!

Beowulf?!?!?

[Dannflor]

but also people in general seem to have bigger expectations than I think is realistic, regarding both my scum and town games so I don't actually know how my read strength is perceived by bingle

I don't think I'm gonna give particularly more useful or AI content if I'm "left alone" as town versus pushed though

and I don't handle pushes as scum super well historically sooooo

the meta read is off at best

[Dannflor]

so what do you make of bingle suggesting that you have the strongest read strength of anyone in the pl?

I think it's sus especially given that half the player list is playing under (what I suppose are secret) alts

Do you have a different name in other cultures!?!?!

Beowulf?!?!?

I don't play on alts I carry my meta like the burden it is

[Dannflor]

I liked some of her posts when catching up (had to go back and check but I think it was like 315 and the couple after that that rung to me as a town way of thinking about what was happening) but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't largely her reaction to realising who I am where I think she would be uh

significantly less enthusiastic about realising that I'm in the game if she were scum and probably working me more than she actually is? like she was cheery about it but I don't feel like she's been playing around me at all and that reads as +town for her

This might be more convincing if I knew who you were. (I'm not asking you to out, just saying)

I do read scum!ydrasse as usually very pockety and she has not been thus far this game, so that part makes sense, and I suppose her not immediately following you onto me adds onto your point about not playing around you. But I also think she's self-aware enough to not go for the same vector of play every single game and the content she has posted has felt somewhere between stilted and forced

She's just passive this game, is the best way I can describe it

[Dusa]

I’ve been largely focused on finding fake townreads because faking townreads to manipulate a utr scum into okas hood is the basic counterplay to okas proposed plan and it looked like at least some measure of the population was accepting that that was what would actually happen today.

I find this thought unnatural! Very few of us are joining the philosophy class actively! So much so that the whole team may have no students!

It makes me think you know at least one philosopher is bad because it's you!

[Yuri Gagarin]

so what do you make of bingle suggesting that you have the strongest read strength of anyone in the pl?

I think it's sus especially given that half the player list is playing under (what I suppose are secret) alts

but also people in general seem to have bigger expectations than I think is realistic, regarding both my scum and town games so I don't actually know how my read strength is perceived by bingle

I don't think I'm gonna give particularly more useful or AI content if I'm "left alone" as town versus pushed though

and I don't handle pushes as scum super well historically sooooo

the meta read is off at best

This is partly what’s bothering me about you both

Idk I’m now starting to swing towards bingle being more off but your pattern of interaction seems very different to how I know you to play in relation to each other based on relatively recent experience

Sorry to be so weird about phrasing but I’m just not particularly in the mood to out, i wanted to have a more chill game than usual

[Dannflor]

that's fine, I'd rather read you without knowing the baggage of whoever you are anyway

my thoughts on Bingle are still in limbo and I'm waiting to see where his push on Solo in particular goes

[Yuri Gagarin]

I liked some of her posts when catching up (had to go back and check but I think it was like 315 and the couple after that that rung to me as a town way of thinking about what was happening) but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't largely her reaction to realising who I am where I think she would be uh

significantly less enthusiastic about realising that I'm in the game if she were scum and probably working me more than she actually is? like she was cheery about it but I don't feel like she's been playing around me at all and that reads as +town for her

This might be more convincing if I knew who you were. (I'm not asking you to out, just saying)

I do read scum!ydrasse as usually very pockety and she has not been thus far this game, so that part makes sense, and I suppose her not immediately following you onto me adds onto your point about not playing around you. But I also think she's self-aware enough to not go for the same vector of play every single game and the content she has posted has felt somewhere between stilted and forced

She's just passive this game, is the best way I can describe it

I can’t say more than I think her passivity is very much not game related or AI

Also yea, I’m obviously aware that my secret alting uh, diminishes my ability to be convincing in terms of meta (at least in a “she is town and I will literally stake my entire credibility for the game on it” — not there we’re there yet in this game, but I’ve reached that level of certainty on her before)

And idk there’s something to the “scum wouldn’t approach things in the same way every game” but equally ydra’s been winning quite a lot as scum and having v strong games so her mixing that up to pre-emptively avoid getting caught for meta seems... unlikely, at the very least

[OkaPoka]

i wanted to respond to some stuff but i dont feel like it so im just going to say interesting posts dann and yuri, idk what to add because i feel like they are contradictory because there are more obvious alternatives imo in how you could have played it out

[OkaPoka]

dann didnt you get a bunch of reads right after u died in the tm large normal r2?