Situation Room [Game Over!]

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Cupcake Butterfly

[GuiltyLion]

I will read for detail Monday night but I am liking all three wagons at first blush. That worries me a bit as the odds of hitting three scum wagons this early is remote.

I see the reason for voting Yuri as relayed by OkaPoka.
I see the lack of detail from cupcake in skimming her large posts
I see the overreaction from Gamma.

As of now, consider my vote on the largest wagon. This should provide a lot of detail for VCA.

I know I need to sort through which wagon I prefer but that's hard to do with the pace of the game and my life. I am trying not to VLA.

Gamma is at l minus 2

Please don't hammer until I can catch up. I see how he can be scum I wanted to catch up.

I am thinking scum, minus Gamma, just have a low WIM. Either Yuri Cupcake and Gamma are all scum or there's townie sounding scum. I know sounds opportunist but I'd rather flip all three for my VCA.

I guess scum!Titus would have maybe played with more of an agenda around Gamma's wagon and inevitable flip here. This does vibe a bit more like town who genuinely is fine with flipping Gamma but doesn't need to look good from it

[LavarManos]

I think Gamma trying to skeevy his way onto CB wagon in D1 indicates CB town.

Now I think Fakegod is town if Dusa is town because I would not expect a mafia to make this post after Dusa said the opposite opinion.

[Bell]

I think Gamma trying to skeevy his way onto CB wagon in D1 indicates CB town.

Now I think Fakegod is town if Dusa is town because I would not expect a mafia to make this post after Dusa said the opposite opinion.

This sounds remarkably true even though there's zero evidence statistical or otherwise. It's like it has a high truthiness value.

[Dusa]

All posts on this page are goodie goodies!

[OkaPoka]

Those extenuating circumstances are?

i feel like its clear from my iso and i dont really feel like rehashing it sorry

[Yuri Gagarin]

i personally have the expectation that everyone is fully maximizing their individual chance of winning the current singular game they are in

this is a great way to make mafia miserable for most-to-everyone involved, and I say that as someone who tracked my winrate in excel for a while across multiple genres of games (amusingly, the big thing that dragged me down was large themes lmao) and who was once described as "one of the biggest tryhards on site" or words to that effect, and all it did was make me enjoy mafia progressively less until I was completely burned out

I still often find myself trying harder than I'd like but I think approaching mafia from the perspective of "this is a game where you're meant to have fun" where winning is a bonus is a much healthier relationship to the game

[Yuri Gagarin]

anyway, I've thought about it and oka is probably town

additional apology if I made you feel miserable, oka, that wasn't my intention. hopefully we can reach a compromise point where the game isn't miserable for either of us

[Yuri Gagarin]

kinda expected to die here.

really? why?

[Yuri Gagarin]

I made it clear why I am voting Yuri

I know you're away but when you get back -- okay, but I already addressed this so.. do you disagree with why Oka's argument doesn't make sense or is there something more?

[Yuri Gagarin]

Yuri, what exactly excited you about the setup that you're not being allowed to explore?

I was essentially imagining that this would have major parallels to a dance game / a game that hellbooks ran a long time ago on her previous main account where multiple new neighbourhoods were created throughout the game and had an impact on elims

basically was hoping to have fun neighbourhoods which would double as almost playing a second mini-mafia game as you try to figure out who if anyone is scum and trying to mis-steer the vig shot

trying to brute force the neighbourhoods into optimal setups or to otherwise break the setup (like restricting who a neighbourhood can shoot at pain of being shot by all the other neighbourhoods). also thought that given lack of power roles and night kills that this would be a super day play heavy setup, but if it's possible to brute force strong advantage just through mechanics then that becomes less necessary and it becomes a case of "sheep the winning strategy" which is... like, fine, but that's not what I came to do and it takes away agency

it's the same reason why idc if it's theoretically better for me to be leashed if I roll vig, if I roll vig then I'm shooting whoever my SR is

[Yuri Gagarin]

See: his ISO

non-answer. what about my ISO?

[Yuri Gagarin]

I think I need to try to do a hard reset, with (oka, bell) town as a starting point

[Yuri Gagarin]

GL, why are you TRing bingle?

[Yuri Gagarin]

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

kinda expected to die here.

really? why?

I was probably more universally tr than Dann and the person whose NA plan we ended up following. I'm also a major stepping stone to overcome when mislimming A50 lategame (See: Dann talking about how he'd sheep my A50 read if I had one to the point that my lack of TR there made him stop TR-ing A50) and A50 scum wouldn't be particularly excited about leaving me alive. Okascum would want me dead as the only other strong mechspeak voice ITT.

The simplest answer to "Why Dann over Bingle" is that scum wanted to shrink Neighborhood 1, which could have a couple of interesting interpretations (scum is trying to get a majority in N1 or N1 is very full of town) or that Dann's reads were more threatening than mine. Of course, all this presumes I'm town, but :le sigh:.

As far as not letting you play with neighborhoods, we're following my plan atm, which largely is to ensure that everyone hoods up and we have as much overlap as possible while killing off scummy slots that aren't in any neighborhoods yet. I don't see how that conflicts in any way with your desire to solve with overlapping hoods and the whether we vig in each pool thing is a discussion that happens on D5, so shouldn't influence your play at this point anyway.

[Bingle]

it's possible to brute force strong advantage just through mechanics then that becomes less necessary and it becomes a case of "sheep the winning strategy"

This bit merits it's own response.

I functionally vetoed the 'breaking strategy' that minimizes dayplay on D1. You really don't have to worry about that. Mechanically, we're mildly incentivized to look at off wagon slots first, but it's still all dayplay.

[Titus]

I'm looking and not really playing for detail but Yuri seems to be making longer posts. I'll see if they have scumhunting. If they do, I'll probably vote T3 or CB.

[Bingle]

yuri is either in my mind, town who is playing in such a way that i consider playing against win condition. now you might not consider it playing against wincon, but i consider playing actively in a way that you consider to be -EV, not playing to wincon. im not accusing yuri of breaking site rules i want to make that clear. i just believe that yuri is lowering the bar for the game in such a way that if he's town, there is literally nothing stopping scum from thinking they need to at least play protown and having that being a consideration for scum leads to a whole different experience.

This is a wholly uncompelling case, oka. If I'm missing a larger piece of the puzzle feel free to let me know.

First of all, you're overstating the mechanical advantage that Yuri is avoiding. Second, the actual reason is a policy one, and one that applies to me more than Yuri, given that I actively worked against the have a two month buffer where all decisions are functionally made by one player plan. I don't think that "I don't want to force wagon comp" is a particularly scummy take, especially when compared to actions like FG's (which actively prevented the manipulation of wagon comp).

@Titus: Feel free to pursue a Yuri wagon. Just because I want the spotlight outside of the neighborhood doesn't mean we can't also solve inside of it.

[Bingle]

I think Gamma trying to skeevy his way onto CB wagon in D1 indicates CB town.

Now I think Fakegod is town if Dusa is town because I would not expect a mafia to make this post after Dusa said the opposite opinion.

This sounds remarkably true even though there's zero evidence statistical or otherwise. It's like it has a high truthiness value.

+1

[Titus]

@Bingle, My main reason to pursue a wagon must remain true for me to do so. I don't need your permission to pursue it. I need the facts to pursue it. That requires verifying.

I'm not opposed to the other wagons either unless something shifted in since my mental health post. I am easing my way back in.

[OkaPoka]

Ill make a post for yuri later.

Bingle, yuri is misrepresenting his mech issues. He has demonstrated not just wanting to not post in neighborhoods, but has also explicitly stated the desire to ignore any plans of leashing votes and joining as many neighborhoods as possible because he "doesn't care to help town". Interpret that as policy idc

[OkaPoka]

Wanting to post in neighborhood*

[Titus]

Yuck.

[Bell]

VOTE: CB

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