Mini Normal 2215: Deco [Complete]

[Jake The Wolfie]

need more people to contribute and pick apart my logic - and people to be wary of people poking holes in it doing so from the assumption i am scum.
i think i am painting a consistent picture from my point of view and the limited knowledge i have and i need others - working from the same assumption i am - on where i am going wrong.

I am not assuming you are scum with my argument for you being scum. That would be circular reasoning.

You didn't want anyone to do anything because there was something that needed to be resolved (what happened the night before), but what I'm suggesting is scummy is that you didn't want us to do anything at all, irregardless of the Doctor's relevancy to the situation. That is actively trying to halt the game dead, which doesn't allow us to progress and, more importantly, is not a town thing to do.

The above argument does not assume you are scum, it concludes with you being scum.

[Egix96]

Has anyone played with A50? Do they tend to prefer logical plays or moonshot intuitive plays?

In my experience, A50 has a very eccentric, hard-to-read playstyle, so I would say the second option seeing as it's definitely not the first.

Geraintm, you were actively bringing the game to a halt because one player wasn't present, and now they're dead.

The issue I have with this is that geraint quite openly didn't want the day to end prematurely, so the fault lies with those who ignored him, not geraint himself.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Geraintm, you were actively bringing the game to a halt because one player wasn't present, and now they're dead.

The issue I have with this is that geraint quite openly didn't want the day to end prematurely, so the fault lies with those who ignored him, not geraint himself.

I can accept that it's not completely gerain's fault that D2 was rough, but what I'm arguing is that Geraintm didn't want the game to progress

at all

until the Doctor came back. That is what I'm taking issue with. He wanted the game to just, stop. No talking about anything, don't try scumhunting with the info we currently have, and don't try to clear townies from the PoE. That is scummy as hell.

[Rannygazoo]

We would have been better off if that happened.

[Rannygazoo]

I don't feel as secure on Egix scum.

Also, I'm pretty sure geratim is locktown given both "masons" are voting there.

Wait, so who does this leave as the 3rd scum in your solve? I'm confirmed town by Roden, DBG is almost confirmed town...

I'm not solving the game today. I was a little early to call g locktown but he's highly likely town. I am going for the obvious scum and going forward from there. Egix can be scum but I am not as certain. That does not mean I TR Egix.

I’m not asking you to pick one possibile final solve out of many, but I do ask that your partial solve be at least possible.

I don’t think the scum team is VFP, Jake, Egix. I don’t know why a scum neighborizer would pick
KidAmn and then (real or pretend) pick his buddies.

[Rannygazoo]

And then slip that VFP is an encryptor.

[Rannygazoo]

Egix, why did you neighborize VFP? Whose idea was it, and how much did you discuss it?

Jake suggested targeting VFP so that scum couldn't sever the link between us by killing Jake.
Later on, Jake told me that they had discussed with VFP, and that they had agreed that I should target the latter.

Could Jake have been steering Egix away from a strongman?

[Titus]

I don't feel as secure on Egix scum.

Also, I'm pretty sure geratim is locktown given both "masons" are voting there.

Wait, so who does this leave as the 3rd scum in your solve? I'm confirmed town by Roden, DBG is almost confirmed town...

I'm not solving the game today. I was a little early to call g locktown but he's highly likely town. I am going for the obvious scum and going forward from there. Egix can be scum but I am not as certain. That does not mean I TR Egix.

titus, as you have the vote on VFP i'd appreciate it if you could check my logic.

if you assume i am town

then VFP + Jake are scum, because otherwise scum would have joined the wagon to eliminate me

this is consistent with if you are town voting for VFP why scum have not joined the wagon on VFP to eliminate them for the win

the alternative is

I am scum
this means that Jake and VFP are both town.
this means that you have to be scum, because if you are town i would have joined your vote along with my two partners for the win.

i think there are some other scenarios where both VFP and Jake are scum and you are scum too and that is why none of the wagons have succeeded yet.

is the above making sense? where does my logic fall down?

The logic on if you're town is solid.

If you are scum, VFP and Jake do not have to be town. They could be bussing to set up a win.

The setup where I am scum with the masons is an outside possibility to anyone else in theory but should be excluded based on our interactions today.

[Titus]

I don't agree with the three of you are scum theory due to play today but it is possible logically.

[Titus]

And then slip that VFP is an encryptor.

The problem I have with VFP being an encryptor isn't the truth of the matter. I buy he's an encryptor. I don't see the healthy logic on how masons have no abilities then claiming mason with an ability.

@geratim, There also may be a problem with scheduling for a quickhammer in all scenarios.

[Jake The Wolfie]

We would have been better off if that happened.

Sure, if we had done nothing on Day 2, we would have gotten more information from the Doctor, granted.

However, that is not what I'm suggesting.

I'm sugesting the most sensible and pro-town play would have been to continue the day as normal

AND

hold off an execution until a Doctor replacement came in to tell us what happened.

Is there any confusion as to what is in my argument? Is there anything you do not understand? Please tell me, it would be much less annoying to hear them all in one place than to have it crop up later.

[VFP]

If you are scum, VFP and Jake do not have to be town. They could be bussing to set up a win.

It's arguable that you're doing the same.
It's more plausible Gera is flipping scum here.

[Titus]

I acknowledged that VFP. It's theoretically possible but it sounds like you're trying to keep me in the elimination pool after you flip scum.

[Egix96]

Egix, why did you neighborize VFP? Whose idea was it, and how much did you discuss it?

Jake suggested targeting VFP so that scum couldn't sever the link between us by killing Jake.
Later on, Jake told me that they had discussed with VFP, and that they had agreed that I should target the latter.

Could Jake have been steering Egix away from a strongman?

I would've targeted Titus were it not for Jake's suggestion, so yeah, there is that.

[Jake The Wolfie]

To be fair, having a chat where we can discuss a gameplan without mafia influence or listening in is a good thing.

[Rannygazoo]

I would've targeted Titus were it not for Jake's suggestion, so yeah, there is that.

That’s interesting. Did you tell Jake you were going to target Titus before he suggested that?

Another question:

the power of my role lies in strongman-finding, not neighbour-making.

Why go along with neighborizing VFP and missing a chance to find the strongman?

[Egix96]

I would've targeted Titus were it not for Jake's suggestion, so yeah, there is that.

That’s interesting. Did you tell Jake you were going to target Titus before he suggested that?

Another question:

the power of my role lies in strongman-finding, not neighbour-making.

Why go along with neighborizing VFP and missing a chance to find the strongman?

- Yes, I did.
- Because Jake had shown me his crumb, I Occam's Razored the claim as being true. So with the exact scum team being revealed under that presumption, as well as the doc already being dead, would finding the strongman really have mattered?

[Rannygazoo]

VFP as mafia encryptor/Titus as strongman/Jake as goon is starting to look like how we win.

[geraintm]

@geratim, There also may be a problem with scheduling for a quickhammer in all scenarios.

the game has gone through enough time now that scum could have just gotten the votes together. it didnt even need to be quick, they would have just got there.

[geraintm]

I don't feel as secure on Egix scum.

Also, I'm pretty sure geratim is locktown given both "masons" are voting there.

Wait, so who does this leave as the 3rd scum in your solve? I'm confirmed town by Roden, DBG is almost confirmed town...

I'm not solving the game today. I was a little early to call g locktown but he's highly likely town. I am going for the obvious scum and going forward from there. Egix can be scum but I am not as certain. That does not mean I TR Egix.

titus, as you have the vote on VFP i'd appreciate it if you could check my logic.

if you assume i am town

then VFP + Jake are scum, because otherwise scum would have joined the wagon to eliminate me

this is consistent with if you are town voting for VFP why scum have not joined the wagon on VFP to eliminate them for the win

the alternative is

I am scum
this means that Jake and VFP are both town.
this means that you have to be scum, because if you are town i would have joined your vote along with my two partners for the win.

i think there are some other scenarios where both VFP and Jake are scum and you are scum too and that is why none of the wagons have succeeded yet.

is the above making sense? where does my logic fall down?

The logic on if you're town is solid.

If you are scum, VFP and Jake do not have to be town. They could be bussing to set up a win.

The setup where I am scum with the masons is an outside possibility to anyone else in theory but should be excluded based on our interactions today.

unless someone comes up with a very good reason for me not to, i plan join you in voting VFP tomorrow night.

[Jake The Wolfie]

VFP as mafia encryptor/Titus as strongman/Jake as goon is starting to look like how we win.

Go ahead. Execute me and lose the fucking game. Execute me despite me softing in early Day 1 being a mason (which means I was always intending to claim mason, by the way) because apparently only Mafia claim masons.

Here's a thought: There is no strongman, and the Strongman Finder/Neighborizor is just a named Neighborizor, to throw us off about what the scum really have.
Here's another thought: VFP is an encryptor to act as a quasi miller that, when added to a neighborhood, will make them look suspicious.

[DrippingGoofball]

I really don't know what to think.

The scum is winning for a reason: they're good at it.

[geraintm]

scum are winning because town was dumb. i honestly think we can pull this back though

[Rannygazoo]

VFP as mafia encryptor/Titus as strongman/Jake as goon is starting to look like how we win.

Go ahead. Execute me and lose the fucking game. Execute me despite me softing in early Day 1 being a mason (which means I was always intending to claim mason, by the way) because apparently only Mafia claim masons.

Here's a thought: There is no strongman, and the Strongman Finder/Neighborizor is just a named Neighborizor, to throw us off about what the scum really have.
Here's another thought: VFP is an encryptor to act as a quasi miller that, when added to a neighborhood, will make them look suspicious.

So that post concerns you, but you're relatively unconcerned about Titus voting your mason buddy VFP.

[Jake The Wolfie]

I see Titus as scum, and you as conftown. I'm not particularly interested in who the scum is voting for here, but if the conftown votes another (in my eyes) conftown, then it's pretty much game over.