Mini Normal 2215: Deco [Complete]

[Roden]

VOTE: T3

Meta read.

[Roden]

By the way, I think I should claim here. I'm an Informed Miller.

This is only my second game, so I had to look up what this is. Interesting role tbh. I guess the only way to verify this would be if a Gunsmith checked you?

Also, I'm assuming you need to save this information for later. Otherwise you'd just tell us.

UNVOTE: T3

VOTE: Rannygazoo since he voted for an (alleged) Informed Miller.

[Roden]

By the way, I think I should claim here. I'm an Informed Miller.

This is only my second game, so I had to look up what this is. Interesting role tbh. I guess the only way to verify this would be if a Gunsmith checked you?

Also, I'm assuming you need to save this information for later. Otherwise you'd just tell us.

UNVOTE: T3

VOTE: Rannygazoo since he voted for an (alleged) Informed Miller.

I think people were voting me for the memes and not because of the claim.

Ah. I think I'll still keep my vote though.

I was informed there is a macho 2-shot cop.

Interesting...

[Roden]

but that's a weird thing to do because thats the opposite of what scum should want to do

Could be a gambit potentially. Idk the history here but if it's something he's been meta read for, he might mention it as if to say "I can't be scum because I'm not playing to my scum meta".

[Roden]

VOTE: gerain
Tbh the pointing out of the not claiming vt thing feels weird to me.

I'm not sure how to do this.

Last game - which you were in - I claimed VT and everyone seemed to shout at me. This game, I said I wasn't straight up claiming vanilla town people say I am suspicious!

To be fair, proclaiming "Hello fellow

Vanilla Townies

" in your initial post is never not a suspicious thing to do lol

[Roden]

Anyone else have opinions on Ranny's posts? I don't really feel good about them. Claiming not to read RVS posts but then noticing me vote him feels off.

[Roden]

That's true for any alignment lol. It's the fact that you said you weren't paying attention even though you clearly were is what feels off to me.

[Roden]

Are we giving you scum vs scum vibes?

[Roden]

That's true for any alignment lol. It's the fact that you said you weren't paying attention even though you clearly were is what feels off to me.

Explain how I clearly was. I think my shift from being in the game to not being in the game is pretty clear.

Titus has played with me before and she can confirm that I don’t always read carefully in the beginning. Or maybe she doesn’t pay that much attention to my play, I dunno.

It was your response and your vote adding to a mini wagon on T3 right after he claimed Miller that just felt too convenient for you to have not read anything yet.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't tunnel worthy or anything, it just felt off and I wanted to know how others felt since Bugspray didn't seem to like one of your other posts either.

[Roden]

excallq don't get an avatar.

It's more that I think they're both slightly scummy for that.

How can we both be scummy if you don't think we're both scum?

[Roden]

Actually I think I get what you mean by that.

[Roden]

It's entirely possible he was given more information and is waiting to share it at a more optimal time. Or, he might need to survive more rounds to gain more information. I don't think it would be hard to verify him as a Miller either.

[Roden]

It's entirely possible he was given more information and is waiting to share it at a more optimal time. Or, he might need to survive more rounds to gain more information. I don't think it would be hard to verify him as a Miller either.

I'm pretty sure that's not how Informed works. You get your information either along with your role, or on a specific night.

Isn't that what I said...?

I don't think it would be hard to verify him as a Miller either.

whgat makes you think this is so easy?

I don't think it's likely that we don't have even a single Gunsmith.

[Roden]

why are you fixating on gunsmith as a way to positively detect a miller?

It's what the wiki said, that's all I can really go by. Unless another role can verify?

I meant I don't think it's possible to already know something from the start of the game AND receive more info later on.

Oh, ok yeah true.

[Roden]

T3 claimed, we need a flip to verify the information.

I'm not sure I follow the logic here. How does flipping someone who claims a town role help town? Aren't we just down a townie if he's telling the truth?

[Roden]

all of this is pointless dribble, but more importantly you haven't justified why we should execute T3. Your attempt at justification is akin to "Well we should kill them to make sure they aren't lying.", as if that is a good strategy.

This is more or less my issue with it. Thing is, idk if DGB actually is scum here because it just seems too blatant and risky. Like, what does scum get out of doing this? I just don't understand the logic here.

[Roden]

Possibly yeah. But it's just wild to think somebody's scum gameplan would be "Vote this person out because I said so." And then execute the plan in the scummiest way possible. Like, I don't see how they could possibly think the rest of us would just listen to them and do as they say. Granted, I don't see it as a town mindset either. Maybe I'm just overthinking it and DGB really did just make a blatantly scummy play and hoped for the best.

[Roden]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

Gave it some thought, DGB being traitor is a pretty compelling case imo. It would explain their actions at the very least.

[Roden]

Going by the votes and interactions, if DGB flips as traitor I feel like it's safe to say Ranny is very likely scum.

I do actually agree that an early drop out player is likely scum though. You'd think they'd be more excited/invested but it seems line it happens often enough to be noticeable on this site.

[Roden]

I feel pretty good about bugspray but that's about it. I don't really disagree with any of their scum reads. T3 and Jake are leaning town for me too.

[Roden]

Going by the votes and interactions,

if DGB flips as traitor I feel like it's safe to say Ranny is very likely scum.

.

how? this statement makes no sense. traitor knwos who scum is but scum doesnt know who traitor is

Ranny made scummy posts earlier, which you yourself pointed out. Ranny also doesn't buy into the idea that DGB is a traitor at all.

Posts 92 and 93 ping me here because he specifically asks DGB for an analysis on set up, sees DGB have an anti-town meltdown over a Miller claim, then later just says "yeah that checks out" and agrees that a policy elim on a town player sounds like a good idea. Then he threatens another policy elim on cw, and rapid votes Titus and Excallq.

This doesn't come off as town to me at all. Defending and agreeing with a suspected Traitor especially doesn't look good.

[Roden]

I kind of don’t see it? DGB suggested a policy elim to simplify the game when there was nothing else to go on, and there’s still nothing else to go on. I’m waiting for something else to happen.

This was in response to multiple people suggesting that DGB was acting anti-town and was possibly a Traitor. This certainly isn't a neutral stance from you, so are you saying you disagree with DGB?

You're welcome to quote where I said I know T3 is town. You shouldn't need to put words in my mouth if you're in the right, so support your claim with some evidence.

[Roden]

You’re just making stuff up. Out you go. VOTE: Roden

VOTE: Roden

Was this meant to make the two of you look more town? Because uh, I don't think it worked. Certainly makes me feel more like I'm actually onto something here, so I feel a little more confident on my reads now.

[Roden]

See I'd probably doubt my reads if you just called me a bad player, and you'd discredit me a lot more with everyone else too since I am new, even if you manage to wagon me Day 1 and reveal my town flip. But now I feel confident in my reads, and if you wagon me and reveal my town flip, both of you look bad since you're blatantly trying to get me to shut up.

If you're both actually town, you're playing needlessly anti-town and trying to OMGUS wagon me instead of just clarifying your stance.

If you genuinely think I'm scum you're gonna have to offer a more compelling case than what you're currently giving everyone. I don't have anything to hide and have no problem clarifying any of my stances.

[Roden]

Yes, I told DGB to do that in the mafia/traitor pt

Mind answering my questions instead of deflecting?

[Roden]

And just to clarify, I don't want to waste time going after the two of you if you're actually just town. I don't want to give any breathing room to scum with pointless town arguments. If anyone else thinks I'm way off with my reads here, I'm fully willing to listen and reevaluate.

[Roden]

You want something clarified? I thought you just wanted to spout nonsense.

This doesn't help either of us if you're town. Build a case against me if you think I'm scum instead just posting ad hominem.

[Roden]

I kind of don’t see it? DGB suggested a policy elim to simplify the game when there was nothing else to go on, and there’s still nothing else to go on. I’m waiting for something else to happen.

This was in response to multiple people suggesting that DGB was acting anti-town and was possibly a Traitor. This certainly isn't a neutral stance from you, so are you saying you disagree with DGB?

You're welcome to quote where I said I know T3 is town. You shouldn't need to put words in my mouth if you're in the right, so support your claim with some evidence.

Sorry, I overlooked this post. You said DGB was pushing a “town policy elim”, implying that T3 is confirmed town to you.

I never agreed with DGB that a policy elim on a Miller claim is a good idea. I just meant that can’t blame him for trying when there’s nothing else going on.

Now I understand what Titus meant with the bait post. There weren’t any good leads, but we have to elim someone.

I have very little reason not to believe the Miller claim, but it isn't confirmed to me. I don't think I

can

confirm that with any role Day 1 unless I'm scum. (If I'm wrong, someone correct me. I suppose you could argue I'm Informed but that would be weird to be Informed about an Informed role.) Which, if I am scum, I should have no problem with voting T3 out. If I'm scum then I just sheep DGB and push the policy vote. I don't fight it.

Even with limited experience, I don't think agreeing with a policy elim on a Miller Day 1 is a pro town move. Even if nothing else is going on. It's hard to believe we can't make even a single scum squirm Day 1 with thirteen players and ten days to poke at people.

It's implied that you were fine with it since you didn't disagree and your post wasn't neutral about it. If you do disagree with it, why are both of you immediately jumping on me when I bring it up? Why aren't you questioning DGB when you're the one who wanted his speculation take on the set up? That's what feels off to me.

Ugh I hate we're still in RVS.

Vote me if you have to.

For the record I think Titus is town. At first I thought this was a gambit, but now I see that she was offering to help since she’s too busy to play at the moment.

Idk how to feel about Titus yet. They're just null for me right now.

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

Who do you think is the best vote to shake things up?

If the question is for me, I've already laid down my vote. DGB, if not a Traitor, is still coming off very anti-town, and they're not doing anything to change that. And I wasn't the one to suggest it in the first place either, since their actions were confusing me until the possibility of them being a Traitor came up.

[Roden]

VOTE: Roden

Who do you think is the best vote to shake things up?

If the question is for me, I've already laid down my vote. DGB, if not a Traitor, is still coming off very anti-town, and they're not doing anything to change that. And I wasn't the one to suggest it in the first place either, since their actions were confusing me until the possibility of them being a Traitor came up.

I didn't ask vote to eliminate. I asked for your vote if you were causing drama for drama's sake to get reads.

This traitor thing is bleh.

I wasn't trying to cause drama tbh. I pushed on something that pinged me and felt better on keeping it up when I got pushed back on it.

I don't think the Traitor thing is guaranteed, and I don't want to tunnel on it. It's why I keep asking for what others think. What about it is bleh to you?

[Roden]

I have very little reason not to believe the Miller claim, but it isn't confirmed to me. I don't think I can confirm that with any role Day 1 unless I'm scum. (If I'm wrong, someone correct me. I suppose you could argue I'm Informed but that would be weird to be Informed about an Informed role.)

You were acting like the miller claim was above reproach. With very few exceptions, only scum knows who is town at this point.

Sorry, I don't mean to say we should 100% trust T3. I just think it's very unlikely for him to lie about it Page 1 when he had zero attention on him. My main issue was DGB's logic of policy voting him to confirm him as town without even giving the game state a chance to unfold.

You can't imaginary self meta yourself out of this. Scum will push to elim some slots and buddy other slots and generally try to blend in. They don't try to elim everyone indiscriminately. I see no reason why you and T3 can't be scum partners.

I mean, I guess? It's possible we're scum partners but you didn't even imply that with your reasoning before. Either way it isn't really an imaginary meta, I don't think scum benefits at all from resisting a vote against a claimed Miller. And in your scenario where we're both scum, it's a terrible play to openly defend your scum buddy page 1, even if I could somehow get away with it in that hypothetical scenario it would still only hurt me in the long term. Potentially losing trust Day 1 has literally zero benefits, and I clearly wasn't the only one against it so I have no reason to speak up if I'm scum anyway. So what does scum!me gain from making that kind of play?

I can't speak for DGB, but in general, a vote with an explanation is not an attempt to end the day.

Didn't say it was. It's still anti-town to do and they made a point of wanting to push T3 first.

Why should I be obligated to fuss over it? DGB got into that mess partly because of my question. I didn't have anything else to add. I didn't think it was scummy either.

I don't think I'm "immediately jumping on you". I think I've been patient.

The accusations as DGB being traitor are just hot air as far as I'm concerned. DGB said some things that can be intrepreted as antitown, and someone was like "that's so bad that DGB must be signalling to scum". It's just far-fetched.

It just doesn't sit right that you don't think you should question DGB's trustworthiness but you think I should question T3's.

The "immediate jump on me" comes from me pointing out that I think your likeliness of being scum depends on DGB's flip. Two quick votes in succession like that just doesn't look good.

The DGB Traitor scenario isn't really that simple either. I commented that despite DGB coming off as anti-town, I wasn't necessarily reading them as scum. You can see with the posts starting here where Jake and I talk about it and how the logic of the situation made no sense to me until the possibility of the Traitor came up.

However, I do see how DGB's last vote plays into your theory. If DGB is mafia or traitor, then by associating with me, it can clear itself if I'm eliminated and you see I'm town. I'm probably just being paranoid, though.

Tbh I feel paranoid just saying that this reads as distancing. It is possible we're both town and DGB is taking advantage of that though.

[Roden]

I wasn't trying to cause drama tbh

do townies ever say thisa

I'm not sure what scum vibes you're getting from it.

It's sorta a fair response to get defensive if he thought I was implying he was causing drama, so I left it out of my prior post.

I wasn't accusing him of starting drama. I was asking him what he'd do to shake up the game to get a read.

Oh, ok I misunderstood the question, my bad.

If I had no reads and the game was going slow, I'd likely just try putting pressure on whoever's getting town read. Seeing how they'd react and who came to their defense would give some information. But I don't feel the need to do that here since a lot of people seem hesitant to give town reads, and DGB brought a lot of attention to themselves anyway and gave me a reason to look into them.

[Roden]

Well isn't that interesting that it was YOU who brought up the topic.

Now - who else talked about traitors soon after you did and was really convinced?

Name and quote please.

Rodan, 148.
T3, 149.

OK

• Jake said the traitor discourse "came out of nowhere"
  
• It turns out Jake himself started up the traitor discourse.
  
• Jake proposed that the scum "
  accidentally said it out out
  " referring to a traitor.
  
• It was, in fact, Jake himself who
  accidentally said it out loud
  .
  
• In post viewtopic.php?p=12821352#p12821352, Jake tries exaggerate my involvement by ignoring that...
  
• ...
  Rodan
  and
  T3
  had bought into the existence of a traitor, so a total of three players were gung ho on traitors before I came in with an eyeroll.

My question to everyone is,

Is Jake tunneling or is it a fake scum case?

We've already been over this. The context of

WHY

it came up matters:

The DGB Traitor scenario isn't really that simple either. I commented that despite DGB coming off as anti-town, I wasn't necessarily reading them as scum. You can see with the posts starting here where Jake and I talk about it and how the logic of the situation made no sense to me until the possibility of the Traitor came up.

So yes, it did come out of nowhere. Because you acted in a way that wasn't AI but absolutely was anti-town, and I didn't understand why. And you didn't simply "roll your eyes", you took the accusation seriously and hard defended yourself.

What's worse is that your posts here are a very desperate "gotcha" attempt on Jake that falls flat with the smallest bit of context. It doesn't change the fact that your behavior rose eye brows and could

potentially

be explained by having the Traitor role.

And just as an aside, yes, we all noticed that you keep trying to move your vote around and hoping another wagon can stick. Why remove your vote off of me if you're scum reading me? Why vote Jessica if you're now trying to catch Jake in a "gotcha" moment?

PEDIT: Jake beat me to it lol

[Roden]

I don't think scum has a private thread in this game. That's what I assume no default day talk means, unless that refers to something else?

[Roden]

I think cw is likely scum, but I don't think his flip will give us as much info as DGB's would.

I don't mind being the hammer vote though if everyone's sold on yeeting cw.

PEDIT: Well...

[Roden]

Despite her vote on me, I agree that Titus gained a lot of town points for that.

[Roden]

Also, we only have three days left and the wagons all feel like they're losing steam. Are we looking at pursuing a wagon against one of DGB, Ranny, Excallq, or myself? Or is there interest on someone else?

[Roden]

Also, we only have three days left and the wagons all feel like they're losing steam. Are we looking at pursuing a wagon against one of DGB, Ranny, Excallq,

or myself

? Or is there interest on someone else?

uhhhhhhh

It's because we're the only ones with votes atm. It seems like no one wants to draw attention and heavily push one of these potential wagons over another.

[Roden]

Makes me think there's definitely scum between the four of us.

[Roden]

Makes me think there's definitely scum between the four of us.

I kinda agree with the post from awhile back that say they thought the interaction between you and Ranny looked a bit s/s-ish but I'm comfortable keeping my vote on Ranny.

Which post was this? I thought the original post said the opposite.

Maybe you don't remember, but

I'm

the one who asked if Ranny vs me looked like scum vs scum. The consensus, at least at the time, seemed to be solidly against the idea that we were. T3 specifically said our interactions independently looked scummy, but not scum vs scum.

[Roden]

This doesn't feel like a genuine misinterpretation tbh. I think someone else made a similar comment and that pinged me too.

[Roden]

Can you show me where someone claimed me and Ranny are scum vs scum?

[Roden]

It went on a bit further and this was basically the last post on it:

I don't think the interactions signify either s/s or t/t or t/s.

So no I don't think a consensus was formed. I think the heat came off you and onto others. Your interpretation of this as a consensus vindication though which you offered in response to some fairly mild pressure is a bit off IMO.

All I'm gathering here is that you tried to shade me but then realized no one actually claimed I was scum vs scum with Ranny. So now you need to make it look like I evaded suspicion while ignoring that multiple people town read/leaned me afterwards.

[Roden]

Also, we only have three days left and the wagons all feel like they're losing steam. Are we looking at pursuing a wagon against one of DGB, Ranny, Excallq,

or myself

? Or is there interest on someone else?

uhhhhhhh

It's because we're the only ones with votes atm. It seems like no one wants to draw attention and heavily push one of these potential wagons over another.

I feel like I could make a case against bugthey but y’all are probably tired of me after cw.

Do you want to hear it, though?

It can't hurt, so I don't see why not.

[Roden]

Answer me this: What's your current read of Ranny?

...Is this a serious question? I've put pressure on him twice now, and the only person I'm reading as scummier is DGB. I've been pretty open about not trusting Ranny. I'm not full scum reading since he does sound like an exasperated townie, and I could just be making awful reads.

[Roden]

If I wasn't so tunneled on DGB right now, and if I was more liable to make OMGUS votes, I'd probably jump on the Excall wagon. His line of posts doesn't look good and relies on a situation he essentially made up in his head to make work.

If you think I'm scum buddies with Ranny, I'd rather you just make a case than plant seeds for Day 2.

That’s me, perpetual exasperated townie

I genuinely do believe this

[Roden]

I am digging cw's recent posting streak.

A little too late to get townie points for this tbh

Also, we only have three days left and the wagons all feel like they're losing steam. Are we looking at pursuing a wagon against one of DGB, Ranny, Excallq,

or myself

? Or is there interest on someone else?

uhhhhhhh

It's because we're the only ones with votes atm. It seems like no one wants to draw attention and heavily push one of these potential wagons over another.

I feel like I could make a case against bugthey but y’all are probably tired of me after cw.

Do you want to hear it, though?

It can't hurt, so I don't see why not.

I’ll ISO dive later, but the short answer is they were hyperagressive to begin with and then dropped off once someone (DGB) picked up heat. This feels like a scum mindset— as long as the attention is on someone else, they can coast.

If nothing else, this does make me want to look up their ISO again.

[Roden]

Then vote me and get a wagon going. See if you can get me to reveal if I have a PR or not. If you're not intent on doing this, then I'm comfortable in believing you just want to plant seeds for Day 2.

You're also blatantly trying to get around the fact you fucked up with the scum vs scum claim. If you could honestly deny it, a townie absolutely would by now. Or at the very least, a townie would admit they made a mistake. Why do you keep trying to talk around it?

[Roden]

Then vote me and get a wagon going. See if you can get me to reveal if I have a PR or not. If you're not intent on doing this, then I'm comfortable in believing you just want to plant seeds for Day 2.

You're also blatantly trying to get around the fact you fucked up with the scum vs scum claim. If you could honestly deny it, a townie absolutely would by now. Or at the very least, a townie would admit they made a mistake. Why do you keep trying to talk around it?

This was intended for Excall btw, didn't want to quote since the quote train was getting long.

Also 100% agree with Jessica's Doctor advice. If the Doctor play is telegraphed then scum can just play around it.

[Roden]

Then vote me and get a wagon going. See if you can get me to reveal if I have a PR or not. If you're not intent on doing this, then I'm comfortable in believing you just want to plant seeds for Day 2.

What an absurd demand. Why would I try to get people to vote for you if I think you and Ranny are scum buddies and people (myself included) are already voting for Ranny?

You're also blatantly trying to get around the fact you fucked up with the scum vs scum claim. If you could honestly deny it, a townie absolutely would by now. Or at the very least, a townie would admit they made a mistake. Why do you keep trying to talk around it?

And this is just a stream of revisionist BS based on the fact that T3 wasn't willing to outright accuse you on like the fourth page.

So you're admitting you're just setting up a Day 2 elim then. Gotcha.

And there's nothing revisionist on my end. You made a claim, got factually proven wrong, and now you're scrambling to justify it while refusing to admit you made a mistake. If you're town, your ego is gonna cost us the game.

[Roden]

Jesus, I wasn't expecting a replace out. I'll still post my response to Excall but I'm not sure how much it matters here.

Then vote me and get a wagon going. See if you can get me to reveal if I have a PR or not. If you're not intent on doing this, then I'm comfortable in believing you just want to plant seeds for Day 2.

What an absurd demand. Why would I try to get people to vote for you if I think you and Ranny are scum buddies and people (myself included) are already voting for Ranny?

You're also blatantly trying to get around the fact you fucked up with the scum vs scum claim. If you could honestly deny it, a townie absolutely would by now. Or at the very least, a townie would admit they made a mistake. Why do you keep trying to talk around it?

And this is just a stream of revisionist BS based on the fact that T3 wasn't willing to outright accuse you on like the fourth page.

So you're admitting you're just setting up a Day 2 elim then. Gotcha.

And there's nothing revisionist on my end. You made a claim, got factually proven wrong, and now you're scrambling to justify it while refusing to admit you made a mistake. If you're town, your ego is gonna cost us the game.

Nothing but semantic games from you. I agreed with the post where T3 said you and Ranny seemed scummy. You're now claiming that's a lie on my part cuz in a later post T3 wouldn't commit to an accusation.

Now you're claiming I'm "planting seeds" because I'm not trying to start a wagon against the one of the two people I think are scum that doesn't have any votes on them now.

And then you're throwing out that last line cuz you know I am town and you're afraid you've overcommitted and will start getting attention starting Day 2.

I already have attention on me lol, my posts have been a loud mess.

And now see I would've just said "that's fair" and admitted you had a point if you just said me and Ranny looked scummy. My issue was that you tried to create a narrative that other people said Ranny and I were scum buddies when that was literally never stated once. But now you're going full revisionist about what you said, and that just looks worse.

[Roden]

Game's slowing down again.

If Jessica is scum then she's a really good scum player. All of her posts seem town indicative and logically sound.

[Roden]

Game's slowing down again.

If Jessica is scum then she's a really good scum player. All of her posts seem town indicative and logically sound.

To clarify, I mean this as a positive thing. I'm currently heavily town reading her.

If I wasn't so tunneled on DGB right now, and if I was more liable to make OMGUS votes, I'd probably jump on the Excall wagon

. His line of posts doesn't look good and relies on a situation he essentially made up in his head to make work.

If you think I'm scum buddies with Ranny, I'd rather you just make a case than plant seeds for Day 2.

That’s me, perpetual exasperated townie

I genuinely do believe this

???
This just seems like a really weird thing to say.

Admittedly yeah it is. I just meant that my focus is on DGB but it's looking like they aren't getting yeeted today.

[Roden]

Game's slowing down again.

If Jessica is scum then she's a really good scum player. All of her posts seem town indicative and logically sound.

Dislike this post. Posting to say you cannot tell if someone is really good scum or just town is zero percent helpful and actively unhelpful as it allows you to show doubt on your read of them in the future

Did you read my follow up post...?

[Roden]

Game's slowing down again.

If Jessica is scum then she's a really good scum player. All of her posts seem town indicative and logically sound.

Dislike this post. Posting to say you cannot tell if someone is really good scum or just town is zero percent helpful and actively unhelpful as it allows you to show doubt on your read of them in the future

Did you read my follow up post...?

Yes

Then what makes you think that I said I can't tell if Jessica is scum or not? I just said I heavily town read her.

If I want to show doubt on my reads in the future, I'll just do it. I don't need to plant seeds just to justify a read later on.

[Roden]

Game's slowing down again.

If Jessica is scum then she's a really good scum player. All of her posts seem town indicative and logically sound.

Game's slowing down again.

If Jessica is scum then she's a really good scum player. All of her posts seem town indicative and logically sound.

Dislike this post. Posting to say you cannot tell if someone is really good scum or just town is zero percent helpful and actively unhelpful as it allows you to show doubt on your read of them in the future

Did you read my follow up post...?

Yes

Then what makes you think that I said I can't tell if Jessica is scum or not? I just said I heavily town read her.

If I want to show doubt on my reads in the future, I'll just do it. I don't need to plant seeds just to justify a read later on.

If Jessica is scum then she's a really good scum player. All of her posts seem town indicative and logically sound.

This

How does this imply I can't read her...? Why are you wasting time looking for things that aren't there and that I even pre-emptively clarified?

[Roden]

Not-Mafia is a fun one lol. If he's town he'll actually start playing the game Day 2 probably.

[Roden]

???

Why Jessica?

And why was Excall making those weird plays if he was Town the whole time?

[Roden]

I'm a little less worried about Excall since I think he just thought my aggressive defense was scum-indicative, but I genuinely just play like that no matter my alignment.

Jessica being the NK just baffles me though. Did she slip a PR at some point?

[Roden]

I just read Jessica's ISO and I'm even more confused tbh. She basically only interacted with like, five people max. Titus and cw kinda, but she was more invested in what was going on with me, DGB, and Ranny. It would be extremely easy for scum to set her/me/both of us up as scummy for arguing with Excall and essentially getting a townie voted out over a misunderstanding. It just feels like a weird kill since I wasn't getting a PR vibes in her posts.

And why

is

cw alive? Why not kill him? Unless they're just planning on Roleblocking him all game and hoping town gets paranoid and yeets him.

Was there anyone who scumread her?

Just Ranny and Excall from what I could tell. If anyone else did, she didn't respond to them, but she put in a lot of effort to respond to anyone who even mentioned her name so I doubt anyone slipped through the cracks. Either way, Excall is confirmed town and Ranny genuinely just sounds like an exasperated townie. Plus I don't think it makes any sense for him to scum read Jessica but then NK her instead of push an easy miselim Day 2.

[Roden]

She basically only interacted with like, five people max. Titus and cw kinda, but she was more invested in what was going on with me, DGB, and Ranny.

Sorry, idk how I excluded Excall here lol. So six people, only about half the players.

[Roden]

Also I doubt the 2-shot Cop wants to speak up since they can't be protected, but if they got a Guilty read on someone last night I think it would be a good idea if they did.

[Roden]

Also I doubt the 2-shot Cop wants to speak up since they can't be protected, but if they got a Guilty read on someone last night I think it would be a good idea if they did.

If there's a cop, they should wait until midday to out.

Makes sense.

t3 if u want to vig jessica rabbit tonight ill do the town-doc

T3 never claimed vig. Are we going to talk about this?

This confused me too. I thought I missed something or maybe misunderstood something T3 said, but he only jokingly mentioned killing a vig once during RVS.

cw, why did you say this?

[Roden]

I actually wondered if CW covered someone else and somebody vig'd Jessica since the argument with Excall looked bad, but why wouldn't they vig me since I arguably look worse? A guess a lot of people were doubting her, but Jessica still seems like the worse vig pick there. And besides, CW did say he would protect her, if he's actually Loyal then she should've lived. This really only works if CW protected somebody else and they were the chosen NK. But why mention choosing Jessica then...?

[Roden]

KA's analysis sounds like it was ripped straight from a "how to trick people into thinking you're town" guide. There's very little actual content in it and DGB liking it sounds even worse.

Also don't like that he thinks the Traitor thing is a waste of time but then wants to bring back the Miller policy elim shit. The Traitor thing only even came up because DGB went ful anti-town over a Miller claim, yet KA doesn't even comment on that at all.

And did anybody else see the Cop fishing?

[Roden]

Well, that was a whole lot of nothing.

Hush, you sauerkraut nebulizer.

I'm really liking KidAmn.

Why do you like them?

Everything he wrote is exactly what I thought in real time.

DGB, the reason I don't believe this is that if you really are Town, you'd have to be as bad at the game as I am and I just sincerely doubt that.

[Roden]

And did anybody else see the Cop fishing?

Where?

Roden's posting on P9 re: still trying to push "DGB as traitor" and then creating associatives that are backwards at best is real off for me. Only redeeming feature is that presumably scum!Rodan is smart enough to understand they're not going to get chain MLs if the first link in the chain fails, and wouldn't actually go through with yeeting DGB if they're the

droids

traitor they're looking for. Christ, now you've even got me talking about traitors. Stop traitor speccing, just hunt scum FFS. End of P9 Roden going REAL hard on this traitor bullshit. Real solid scumvibes. Gonna be awkward if I get to page 18 and they out themselves as a cop or something.

Trying to see if I'll claim Macho Cop to save myself here after going hard at me for "looking scummy". Doing this right after complaining about speculation (in a game that had literally nothing going on in it) doesn't sit right.

I was town leaning Bug so it's weird that I'm getting completely opposite vibes from they're replace in.

[Roden]

Like why complain about tunneling and speculation then do exactly that? And again,

literally nothing was going on in the game when the Traitor speculation happened.

There wasn't much to work with at the time and it was the only vaguely interesting thing to even discuss. I'm pretty sure I just shut up and don't bother trying to out a Traitor if I'm actually scum. I don't see why KA seems to be ignoring that I said this earlier too, or why he isn't questioning why his slot and I shared scum reads at the time.

[Roden]

Interesting summary KA. Well mainly just condescending and desperate to appear funny and charismatic, but still interesting. I think you accidentally exposed yourself though.

-Why did you bring up the "Gotcha!" attempt from DGB and Excall even though it was already settled? In fact, why did you ignore the fact check that came afterward? Why put this random suspicion on Jake?

-Why misinterpret what I said about Jessica? She didn't interact with her TRs, and my post was in response to a question about people scum reading her anyway.

-If you think Jake vs DGB isn't town vs town then why aren't either in your scum pool? And why the hell is

Geraint

of all people in your scum pool instead if you barely even mentioned him?

-Geraint in general is an interesting choice for your scum pool. Your slot scum read him as well, but also backed off a few posts later and stopped pressuring him when other players began to do so. You're doing something similar, as you're scum reading him but giving zero reason why and putting zero pressure on him. Why is this?

[Roden]

KA if you believe Geraint is scum, then I'm down to vote him.

VOTE: Geraint

[Roden]

Taking your salt out on an unrelated player doesn't help anyone tbh. Also not really sure why the meta is to policy elim Millers. If anything that just sounds like it auto-ruins the game for any player who gets it. Why is the role even included if the apparent meta around it is inherently brainless and anti-fun?

[Roden]

Taking your salt out on an unrelated player doesn't help anyone tbh. Also not really sure why the meta is to policy elim Millers. If anything that just sounds like it auto-ruins the game for any player who gets it. Why is the role even included if the apparent meta around it is inherently brainless and anti-fun?

T3 could've lied about being a Miller, and is actually scum.

I mean, yeah. I get that. I'm saying I don't get the point of including a role where the meta is to policy elim them just in case they're lying. Or why people would rather just auto elim a player than even bother trying to read them.

[Roden]

I think I saw only one post where someone voted T3 based on his actual plays instead of his role.

[Roden]

Jessica was against a policy elim too.

I don't really blame anyone for voting Not_Mafia tbh, but I'm pretty sure he knew he was on the way out anyway.

[Roden]

What strikes you as scummy about that?

[Roden]

What strikes you as scummy about that?

If you think he's scum, why try to work with him?

What makes you think I'm trying to work with him?

Why aren't

you

questioning KA's summary, actually? Why is my vote odd but KA's scum read on Geraint isn't?

[Roden]

What makes you think I'm trying to work with him?

Why aren't you questioning KA's summary, actually? Why is my vote odd but KA's scum read on Geraint isn't?

- I mean "working with" in the sense of "helping out". As in, making it easier for Amn to push geraint if he wants to.

- Admittedly I hadn't yet had a good opportunity to sit down and parse Amn's catchup. Only just now I have, but the issues I can see are no different from those already pointed out by you.

- The difference is that Amn's read at least makes some sense, based on what little is included about him (e.g. the response to 511).

Have you noticed that KA hasn't even bothered to respond to, clarify, or acknowledge any of this?

I put a vote on Geraint because I wanted to see what would happen. You and VFP reacted pretty normally, but all Geraint said is that KA and I were not town yet didn't vote for either of us. The way KA is going about this, it doesn't sound like he actually wants Geraint gone.

My problem is that I'm town reading Ranny and T3, but Geraint is Null for me. So why did he get grouped up with us? Post 511 hardly seems like a reason to scum read somebody. So fmpov I have to wonder, did KA really scum read four Townies, or three town and one scum?

And why Geraint over DGB and Jake, who he actually did claim contained one scum between them but didn't include them in his scum pool? If he's sure there's scum there, why isn't he pressuring them? Why did all of his pressure fall on me, T3, and Ranny?

[Roden]

That sounds like a cop out so you can shade and scum read whoever you want in your summary with zero consequences.

Nobody in your scum pool contradicts or clears one of Jake or DGB being scum. Especially not Geraint, who you barely even explain for putting in your scum pool. If your reads changed at some point, you absolutely did not explain how or why.

[Roden]

@titus why do you think I am scum? I've not worked outbwhat the case is against me yet

This is exactly what's pinging me. You got scum read over one post, and you were prioritized over DGB vs Jake with no real explanation. Even now, KA is only making excuses instead of explaining his reads.

Look at it this way. T3, Ranny, and I got scum read with pretty in-depth reasons. If you think it's likely three scum openly made a bunch of noise and defended each other, sure, fine, you can believe that. But why are you here? And why did the previous player in KA's slot also scum read you? Neither of them gave nearly as much insight when scum reading you as they did their other reads.

If you're town, and fmpov T3, Ranny, and I are also town, then KA scum read four townies.

But what I think is more likely is that scum!KA needs to put at least one scum on his list if he's going to give out reads. Just in case a Cop targets the right players. It gives him town cred and bus potential without actually having to apply any pressure at all on actual scum. He can then use Jake vs DGB as more town cred if a Cop or Vig looks that way at night, or save them for ELO and either win the game or gain town cred when it comes up. He's set up to look good no matter what without having to commit to anything.

I voted you, Geraint, because I'm calling his bluff. His silence and excuses just makes it look more damning.

If I'm wrong, then KA needs to speak up and start explaining. I'm completely open to changing my mind if KA is compelling enough. I'd also like to see what others think.

[Roden]

Also, side note but I think there's a pretty good chance CW is going to replace out since he still hasn't posted. We might not know what happened with him for another day.

[Roden]

Titus, what do you think of KA's summary being inconsistent with his reads? Do you think I'm just full of shit or possibly looking for town mistakes?

I understand you think any of the three of us being scum is a valid option, but I'd like to know your perspective here. Even if you're uncertain, that's better than sitting on the fence.

[Roden]

I think that's definitely possible. I just think that it's extremely risky. Scum has to hope there actually is a Vig and that they plan to follow through on the kill. This could make the CW slot look like a liar while confusing the rest of the town about what happened. Only problem is if they guess wrong about the Vig, then it's a no kill night and it makes their win con much harder to reach by essentially confirming Jessica and CW as town.

Honestly, it kinda makes sense. But the CW slot can easily confirm or deny if it's even possible. It's something to bring back up once we get his replacement.

[Roden]

Well, actually it's only a no kill night if the Vig doesn't even exist. They could just target someone else if they didn't want to make a gambit play.

[Roden]

Also, side note but I think there's a pretty good chance CW is going to replace out since he still hasn't posted. We might not know what happened with him for another day.

Their replacement will know their actions right?

They should.

Oh fuck, I legitimately forgot DGB was playing in this game.

They still haven't answered your question btw. They just posted to prod dodge and put a naked vote on me. Again.

[Roden]

Titus, what do you think of KA's summary being inconsistent with his reads? Do you think I'm just full of shit or possibly looking for town mistakes?

I understand you think any of the three of us being scum is a valid option, but I'd like to know your perspective here. Even if you're uncertain, that's better than sitting on the fence.

Talking this out may help.

Your vote is on Geratim to get KidAmn to vote there, not because you necessarily think Geratim is the scummiest. My gut wants the question answered of why not vote KidAmn?

Yet, I agree that Geratim hasn't brought much to the table which can be cause for concern, so voting there makes sense and gambiting a scumread feels townie even though your vote isn't on your scumread.

KidAmn's expression of shit being organic is likely true, regardless of his alignment. Yet, he's not taking a stance on Geratim for the most part. He's still not really commenting on his position now when asked. He's just defending his NAI procedure.

Overall, if I had to guess, I'd put KidAmn as the scum out of the three but don't hold me to it.

This has basically been my thought process.

KA still hasn't posted a real response to this, nor has he said much of anything else since, which looks like he's trying to stall out until he's in prod dodge range. I'm fairly certain the reason he's doing this is because if he's scum, he's not in a favorable position. He seems too scared to commit to a vote that involves actual reads.

As of now, he can just hide behind a policy vote on T3. But why is he seemingly cautious about voting Geraint? Why doesn't he just accuse me of being opportunistic or trying to bus a scum partner? The only answers I can think of is that A) he doesn't want to needlessly bus a scum partner, and B) he's scared of how that will make him look if he attacks me further and publicly says he doesn't want to vote Geraint. Which is strange for someone who made a very snarky and condescending summary of the game.

I put my vote on Geraint to see what KA would do. I gave him a full day to at least attempt to look town, and he refused.

VOTE: KidAmn

[Roden]

I'm not prod dodging you filthy red role PM player and I am strategically voting so that the wagons are 3 vs. 3 to see what the next moves will be.

We both know you don't actually think I'm scum lol.

If you're not prod dodging then why are there huge gaps between your posts? Why have your posts had such little content lately? And why don't you think it's suspicious that KA thinks you're likely scum? Why have you said literally nothing about what's going on with the game recently?

[Roden]

DGB, the last gap between your posts was almost 35 hours. You cannot convince me that wasn't a prod dodge.

[Roden]

Thirty-five hours is a prod dodge?

Sometimes I visit the thread and decide there isn't much to say.

If you're popping into the thread after multiple 30+ hour gaps of silence just to say you have nothing to say...doesn't that sound exactly like a prod dodge?

How do you have nothing to say anyway? All you've added on Day 2 is that you like KA (even though he thinks you're likely scum) and you left a naked vote on me. Nothing that's happened so far is worth a comment? What about all the questions people have asked you?

You can't claim you have nothing to say when people are asking you questions and you've decided to actively ignore them.

[Roden]

I think Roden is town.

Sigh yeah you're probably right.

VOTE: Kidamn

But if this vote flips town, I will not be happy.

This is why I gave him a chance to explain himself. I don't want to cause a mis-elim, and if he's town I'd want him to defend himself. I still want him to. But he just won't say anything, it shouldn't have even been that hard to clarify anything.

[Roden]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense actually. Strongman makes the kill a lot simpler, and balances the Vig + Loyal Doctor combo so that they can't just either kill scum or safely clear people as town every night.

[Roden]

Though I'm not sure why they don't just kill the Doc. Unless they want us to doubt the CW slot, but a Cop check also ruins that plan.

[Roden]

What are you doing!? We don't have an active Doctor!

[Roden]

He was at E-1

[Roden]

CW still hasn't been replaced. We don't have the Doctor slot tonight.

[Roden]

Safe to say I'm absolutely baffled why KA refused to defend himself or dispute a single thing that was said and just let himself get voted out. I was pissed the first day but at this point there's nothing I can do about it. I threw Day 2 hard.

DGB, quick question. Do you have any modifiers?

[Roden]

DGB claimed?

I don't believe so. But I figured I'd ask.

[Roden]

If the 2 shot Cop can step forward, that can confirm T3 for us. I can then claim my role and offer some important info.

[Roden]

Also the Neighbor situation is really weird. I honestly don't know what the hell KA was doing or why he refused to clarify anything. I don't think he was lying but the other Neighbor should also step forward.

[Roden]

Quick post, but man you guys all suck(except scum, you dont). Who ever was town on that wagon should be ashamed of themselves. I can't think of a collective town day worse than that.
I have almost zero energy to bother the rest of the game

To be fair, KA literally just let it happen. The wagon would not have gone through had he defended himself at least once.

Geraint we kinda need you now. Please don't just stop posting.

[Roden]

like, this game is pretty much unwinnable now but ive got to go through with it, but guillotining yesterday just the dumbest thing i've had in a game since i played with someone called Max...

The elim was really really dumb, but I think we actually just win here. If the 2 shot Cop is real, then two reveals are going be huge. Even if both checks hit Town, we can still massively narrow down our scum pool because that also clears T3 and the Cop themself. If the 2 shot Cop isn't real, then T3 is the obvious elim here and we still narrow down our scum pool after my role reveal.

[Roden]

I have a theory. Now I know the last time I said this we ended up limming the doctor but I have a theory.
All the other prs out today.
The cop claims vt,the outs tomorrow.

The cop will most likely have used both of their shots by now, so how does this help? Wouldn't it just make us risk losing the peeks?

No. Even if the cop dies it still helps us. I know this sounds like it makes no sense.

T3, if we don't confirm that the 2 shot Cop exists today, we 100% have to shoot you. That's just how it is at this point. There are zero reasons for the Cop to stay silent since they can't offer anything else Night 3 onwards with their role.

[Roden]

I'm just not sure why he made a claim that needs an answer in two days. Like, I'm guessing he hoped a scum buddy would take up the fake claim, that makes sense. But now they're just leaving him hanging? The only thing I can assume at this point is that scum might be more associated with each other than we thought, and that it's worth losing T3 over ultimately outing themselves if something goes wrong. Jake and I possibly spooked them with our role hints, maybe.

Before I say what I know, I'm giving one last chance for the 2 shot Cop to step forward. If you exist but stay quiet, then you are condemning T3 who you know would have to be Town.

[Roden]

I am a mason vig with ranny, and I will 100% shoot him if you self-vote here.

Currently reading through ISOs. Was there any truth to this?

[Roden]

I am a mason vig with ranny, and I will 100% shoot him if you self-vote here.

Currently reading through ISOs. Was there any truth to this?

That has a truth score of about 7%

So something here is correct...? If you're a Mason, we have two clears. I promise you my role will narrow down the scum pool further, but I need to make sure nobody's claims contradict mine.

[Roden]

I'm nothing special, apart from the fact I'm a neighbour with someone who should know better.

Does anyone else think this implies his neighbor was somebody who voted for him? Because in that case, I'm not a Neighborizer, T3 can't be one, and Ranny has already implied he isn't one. Which would leave Egix and VFP, who both voted right before KA made this cryptic post.

[Roden]

I am a mason vig with ranny, and I will 100% shoot him if you self-vote here.

Currently reading through ISOs. Was there any truth to this?

That has a truth score of about 7%

So something here is correct...? If you're a Mason, we have two clears. I promise you my role will narrow down the scum pool further, but I need to make sure nobody's claims contradict mine.

This is a little weird. Scum is motivated to wait and see what the claims are so they can make up something that fits they way they need it to. What’s the town motivation for waiting for others to claim?

I understand, but that's exactly why I'm waiting. I know I'm town but I don't know Jake's alignment. If he claims Masons with someone I know can't be a Mason, that doesn't look good for him.

I know I played badly on Day 2 and that people have a good reason to scum read me. I understand if people don't trust me.

[Roden]

It's also why I wanted to wait for the 2 shot Cop. I was hoping to possibly catch them in a lie if scum claimed it.

[Roden]

T3 can you tell us why the 2 shot Cop doesn't actually exist?

[Roden]

Oh.

[Roden]

Jake, can you at least let me know if you actually intend to claim? I don't want to wait if nothing's coming.

[Roden]

Jake, can you at least let me know if you actually intend to claim? I don't want to wait if nothing's coming.

Not rijht, but maybe tomorrow, if through the power of Loki, T3 flips town here.

More likely I'll probably claim later today.

Alright, I'll wait then. If a magic hammer somehow still happens again it'll be fine, because I prepared my role reveal post ahead of time.

I'm vt.

Looking back on it that was a stupid gambit.

This is too anti-town to actually come from town.

[Roden]

Then again my reads have been shit. T3 most likely should go tonight though unless somebody has some wild reveals.

[Roden]

Egix, we know you've read the thread. Please respond to the speculation around your role.

[Roden]

Whoops.

[Roden]

Jake hasn't mentioned anything about getting Neighborized though? Actually, he stated his role made a Neighborizer unlikely to begin with.

[Roden]

Who do you think is scum with T3?

[Roden]

Jake hasn't mentioned anything about getting Neighborized though? Actually, he stated his role made a Neighborizer unlikely to begin with.

He is definitely in there though. There's just no day talk.
If you're referring to when Jake voted KA, then that was before I targeted him.
Other scum are probably in Goofball, Titus, and geraint, but I'm not super confident on that.

But even with no day talk, KA knew he'd been Neighborized. Jake doesn't seem to know though, since I can only assume he would tell us if it had happened to him.

[Roden]

Skimming Jake’s iso, he is a lot more willing to believe in neighbors today. It checks out.

Why were you looking for strongmen in particular? If it’s a mechanical thing, please tell us the full name of your role.

Combined Neighborizer Strongman Finder

I'm a bit on the fence about believing this since it's a really weird combination, but if you're telling the truth then this actually explains a lot. Jessica died even though the Doctor supposedly targeted her because scum have a Strongman. CW's slot likely died on Day 2 because the possibility of a Strongman came up to explain the NK, and the WIFOM around the slot wasn't really working anymore. They might only be an X-shot as well and had no choice but to get rid of the Doctor.

If all of this is true, you're essentially a makeshift Cop, Egix. You can really only find one scum, but that's still really powerful if you can guess right.

[Roden]

Somebody unvote.

[Roden]

Fuck it, time to claim.

I'm a Jack of All Trades, but I won't yet say all of my abilities. This is why I played so chaotically, at least on Day 1. I needed a way to keep myself alive and I figured if I made myself a potential scapegoat for scum, they wouldn't target me. This is also why I picked a few fights, I wanted to see who'd bite so I'd have a better idea of who to Cop check.

On Night 1 I investigated Ranny using my Cop check, who came back as

Innocent

. Sorry that I messed with you so much Day 1, my intention was that if you turned up guilty, my continued push on you would look natural, and if you came up innocent then scum would leave both of us alive to fight and draw focus.

On Night 2, I used my Vig shot on DGB, because of course I'm going to after literally everything that happened. Seeing as the CW slot is now confirmed as a Town Loyal Doctor, I think it's safe to assume the replacement player read the situation and figured if we had a Vig, then they're most likely to shoot DGB after the hammer. So I'm confident DGB is now Town.

Scum could have a galaxy brain and somehow know I had a bullet and that I was going to shoot Night 2 and Roleblocked me, but at this point they're more likely to think

I'm

the Traitor after causing so many disruptions and just generally being really bad at the game. Though if we have a Jailkeeper then they need to speak up if they jailed me or DGB.

Idk if I can prove my role since nothing affected the game, but Ranny and DGB are both confirmed town for me.

[Roden]

And no, I'm not a Strongman.

[Roden]

I'm going to town lock Titus if only because I don't think she'd used mental health reasons to try to win a scum game. I don't know her personally but that's just something I believe.

[Roden]

Roden where to you hint to targeting DGB?

I laid down zero hints. If I did then scum knows not only who has a bullet, they can then plan around it. That's why I say me getting Roleblocked is a galaxy brain play and not just an obvious choice if they have that ability. Instead, I think the Doctor made a galaxy brain play. DGB or myself had to be the most likely choices after how Day 2 ended, but I think DGB's hammer on KA is what ultimately got them protected.

[Roden]

Then why would you assume that a replace in knows where to protect?
This seems just odd.

Because DGB didn't die. Scum has no reason to think to Roleblock me. If they did then fine, amazing play, but the probability of them thinking that I'm a Vig when I gave literally zero bread crumbs and Jake apparently had soft claimed it just seems improbable. The only way DGB isn't confirmed town is if a Jailkeeper jailed one of us, but even that is incredibly unlikely. Why put a Doctor and a Jailer in the game? And why would they jail one of the two of us? Hell, why does literally anyone besides Doc and Vig target us?

[Roden]

If scum is BP and I happened to target the one BP scum, then I'm either unlucky or seriously just that bad. But does BP scum make sense with only one Vig? Especially a one shot Vig? That just seems heavily loaded against town if you also add a Loyal Doctor. The chances of this combination of events is already extremely low, but would that actually be included in a set up at all?

[Roden]

Pretty sure it's because Geraint was basically confirmed town after Day 4. DGB, for all intents and purposes, was basically confirmed town yoo because of the Loyal Doc situation, but there was a chance I did get Roleblocked. Which was true, but DGB was still town anyway lol.

I actually want to know WHY Geraint still voted DGB when he didn't seem to believe I got Roleblocked.

[Roden]

*confirmed town too

[Roden]

Pretty sure it's because Geraint was basically confirmed town after Day 4. DGB, for all intents and purposes, was basically confirmed town yoo because of the Loyal Doc situation, but there was a chance I did get Roleblocked. Which was true, but DGB was still town anyway lol.

I actually want to know WHY Geraint still voted DGB when he didn't seem to believe I got Roleblocked.

We all had reasons to be conftown which is why I was surprised I had locktown reads from both town. DGB's was particularly surprising given 1338.

I had the bus. Geratim had the targeting. DGB had the roleblock.

I'm not sure how I got that quickhammer.

That quick hammer came real fast too, I'm honestly surprised neither of them even considered you. Egix was definitely the best kill choice, GG.

[Roden]

There’s no way anyone can predict this at the time of setup, but due to poor communication from the doctor’s slot, it really did look like there was a strongman. It wasn’t just trying to outguess the mod.

The Loyal Doctor implying the existence of a Vig and that being correct also helped solidify the idea that there was an actual Strongman. I don't think it's entirely unfair to think if the Loyal Doc was added for reason, so too was the Strongman Finder. Though I agree that shouldn't have been the only factor for determining scum, especially in a final three scenario.

In 100% of games lately the setups have roles that deliberately mislead the town, such that ROLES ARE USELESS.

Worse than useless.

This is a point I find worthy of comment. There are two things I want to say about it: one specific to this game, and the other more general.

The more specific point is that Egix' Strongman-Finder ability served a definite purpose in the setup, in that it motivated him to target players he suspected of being Mafia. This made his 'real' ability of catching the Encryptor one that would reward good reads on his part. (Ultimately this is not why he targeted VFP but had the game gone differently it could have been.)

The more general point is that the purpose of power roles in a Mafia game, particularly in a closed game, is to give their faction whatever benefit those roles have. It is emphatically

not

to present an "outguess the mod" puzzle wherein the town tries to discern the setup by meta-reasoning. I can honestly say I did not add that role with the hope of

tricking

anyone, not only because that particular formulation was an NRG suggestion but because I never would have imagined anyone to be so confident in the first place that the presence of a Strongman-Finder implied there must be a Strongman to find. Given that you openly admit you knew no such guarantee existed, I don't think you can also seriously claim you were tricked.

In other words: the primary way the town could have caught Titus as Mafia in this setup was by

scumhunting.

To the extent that the town lost by disregarding scumhunting in favor of reliance on a promise that no one had ever made, I consider that loss well earned.

To be fair, town lost because town kept letting themselves get mis-elim'd for three days in a row lol.

[Roden]

I think it could've worked out if you didn't give yourself a time limit, I was willing to defend you right up until time ran out for the claim confirm. In hindsight, I really should've Gunsmith checked you Night 1.

[Roden]

I think it could've worked out if you didn't give yourself a time limit, I was willing to defend you right up until time ran out for the claim confirm. In hindsight, I really should've Gunsmith checked you Night 1.

Then you would have tunneled Ranny, giving us a flip there.

That's definitely a possibility. Thinking on it, it just means T3 is the confirmed townie at Day 4 ELo instead of Ranny. I might've even successfully shot DGB too, since I apparently softed Cop Day 2 which probably doesn't then happen and I'm less likely to get RB'd. Kinda wish I hadn't gotten JOAT lol, someone with more experience probably would've used it better, but it was still a good learning experience regardless.