Mini Theme 2222: Open Draft Mafia [Game Over]

[Titus]

NDMATH has no reason to lie (unless some off the wall scum with Bingle). I have no reason to lie.

My point is that no one has a reason to lie right? Like wouldn't bingle have to pass to a teammate to avoid getting caught? And the teammate would then claim commute when they didn't have one and could easily get caught lying themself?

This whole thing makes no sense

No. Bingle's deck likely has a commute in it fmpov.

The likely lie is that he didn't use an N1 commute. Rather, he took 1-shot activated ascetic N1. That would also make him immune to NDMATH'S check.

[Infinity 324]

Ok but again, why lie

[Titus]

Ok but again, why lie

Bingle needs a reason that NDMATH didn't get a result on checking that doesn't require a roleblocker targeting NDMATH. The only options are commuter and ascetic. Both are 1 shot.

[Titus]

We have a guilty on House today and I suspect a guilty on Bingle tomorrow.

[Infinity 324]

I'm sorry if I'm being an idiot but

If he took a 1-shot activated ascetic

Why not say that he took a 1-shot activated ascetic

What is the benefit to saying he took a commuter instead??

[Titus]

@NDMATH, What did you use to investigate Bingle?

[MURDERCAT]

Vote Count 2.1

[4] House: Infinity 324, Dwlee99, Almost50, T3
[0] T3:
[0] Infinity 324:
[0] NorwegianboyEE:
[0] Almost50:
[0] mastina:
[0] Titus:
[0] Dwlee99:
[0] NDMath:
[0] Bingle:
[0] Dunnstral:

Not voting: NorwegianboyEE, mastina, Titus, NDMath, House, Bingle, Dunnstral

With 11 alive it takes 6 to eliminate.

Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-08-01 10:10:39).

[Dwlee99]

I'm sorry if I'm being an idiot but

If he took a 1-shot activated ascetic

Why not say that he took a 1-shot activated ascetic

What is the benefit to saying he took a commuter instead??

Why would town take an activated ascetic?

[Bingle]

I don't see why any of this is worth worrying about today?

We can solve the mechanical 1v1 tomorrow, and if I get mislimmed to net a scum lim on D4 that's still fine.

[Titus]

I'm sorry if I'm being an idiot but

If he took a 1-shot activated ascetic

Why not say that he took a 1-shot activated ascetic

What is the benefit to saying he took a commuter instead??

Because taking and using a 1 shot activated ascetic is a scumclaim, particularly with a commuter in his deck.

First, taking ascetic over commuter indicates he's not afraid of a nightkill.

Second, it violates the rule of if doing negative utility, claim post 1.

Third, if he legit took ascetic and activated it to keep it from scum, he'd say so rather than lying and claiming he took a commuter.

He just got burned by 4 commuters in the deck.

[Titus]

I just want to hear what

NDMath used to target Bingle and why.

Then I'll be ready to end the day.

[Infinity 324]

First, taking ascetic over commuter indicates he's not afraid of a nightkill.

This makes sense

[Titus]

I'm sorry if I'm being an idiot but

If he took a 1-shot activated ascetic

Why not say that he took a 1-shot activated ascetic

What is the benefit to saying he took a commuter instead??

Why would town take an activated ascetic?

Town could take it and not use it.

[Dwlee99]

Sorry that's what I meant. They wouldn't activate it.

[Bingle]

There's a counterargument to that logic, but again....

Why would we not wait to solve this until tomorrow? When we have more complete information?

[Titus]

Yup. So that's why if we get three commutes Bingle is scum.

[Titus]

There's a counterargument to that logic, but again....

Why would we not wait to solve this until tomorrow? When we have more complete information?

Laying out the logic is important in case I die.

We have a guilty today. No need to flip in use 3 today.

Commuter should act before anything else. So they all commute.

So as soon as NDMath claims what she investigated Bingle with and why, we're good to end the day.

[Bingle]

I just want to hear what NDMath used to target Bingle and why. Then I'll be ready to end the day.

There's no reason not to have this information claimed as the role is spent, but it's largely irrelevant to the issue of the mech 1v1v1.

I will say that Titus' reaction here is pretty strongly town and I'm leaning ND scum in the three of us, but scum literally can't kill the corroborating evidence. They just take the commute and live to tomorrow. We will necessarily have a 1v1 tomorrow.

I still want to see House's reaction to the guilty, on the off chance it's informative.

[Titus]

There's no reason not to have this information claimed as the role is spent,

Tracking the used roles is a reason as it generates guilties as we've seen.

[Titus]

Plus, NDMath could be lying.

[Bingle]

Laying out the logic is important in case I die.

I mean... Once I agreed that it was a mechanical guilty it meant scum would have to kill both of us tonight to save NDmath, and if scum I'd talked myself into a corner.

On the other hand, it's far more likely that I would have taken the commuter as scum than let Dwlee have the role that has a potential to be used against scum, and so the occams if I were scum is that ND was roleblocked by scum and I knew that, not that I took an ascetic.

[Titus]

Why do you not consider NDMath could be lying?

[Bingle]

[quote="In post 1618, Titus"][/quote]

That's what I said. There's no reason not to claim what your investigation was once you've used it.

OTOH, if ND isn't lying, him claiming today or tomorrow doesn't really matter, because if for some reason he get's NK'd he'd still flip as the investigative he used and we'd know that he used said investigative on me and it was unsuccessful.

We can't possibly lose the information if he's telling the truth and he's already going to be in a 1v1 if he's lying.

[Bingle]

Why do you not consider NDMath could be lying?

If ND is nightkilled he wouldn't have been scum and thus wouldn't be lying?

The presupposition of him being NK'd means he'd be town.

I think he likely is lying, but we don't really lose information if he is and can burn that bridge when we get to it.

[Bingle]

There's no reason not to claim what your investigation was once you've used it.

Once you've used it refers to both the night action and the baiting an incorrect resultant claim, btw.