Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[clidd]

The conviction exists, but in this context it seems to be more pro-scum than pro-town.

[Yin]

yin

, how many criminals in yin/yang/hectic?

Crime is something the people in charge decide.

[Yin]

Do you hate criminals?

[clidd]

Ydrasse..
Chara..
Ydrasse..
Chara..

[clidd]

The deepwolf curse comes back to haunt me.

[Flea The Magician]

Initially I was curious, but by now it just seems like you've been repeating the same thing over and over again.

Probably because I am, because
NOBODIES LISTENIN

[clidd]

but repetition doesn't make your theory any truer, and at this point you would have re-evaluated Tanner's behavior as much more likely to come from town than scum

[clidd]

if you come from an uninformed perspective, it is impossible to rely on the "criminal" dynamics as your main basis to read someone (which you have been doing since you announced your solve)

[clidd]

it feels more like a topic where you can keep generating "content" and not need to effectively engage with the game (and allow your slot to be readable)

[clidd]

not that not engaging with the game is necessarily scummy in isolation, of course, but in the context of your activity and energy between days, it denounces a +scum motivation considering you're not directing these elements towards an ai solving (something town!flea should be aware of/is good at)

[clidd]

by poe and play i just think you're scum here so i'm /shrug in relation to your posts rn

[Ydrasse]

the lack of scum agenda thing was about Flea, i'm not sure why it's where it is, i edited the post while writing it and i think i deleted part of it because the conclusion i wanted to have in there is essentially: i don't feel good flipping Robert even if it might be necessary, for this day i'd rather flip a player i think has a better shot of being scum, i still think Flea is a possibility for that though i'd say fae sticking to faer guns on the yin/yang thing and mechanics is net +town for faer. i don't love it though.

am at work went looking for charas towncase beforehand want to read around this later

[Flea The Magician]

but repetition doesn't make your theory any truer, and at this point you would have re-evaluated Tanner's behavior as much more likely to come from town than scum

Nope. They're firmy in my scum reads anyway

Suddenly started to SR Ydrasse and retracting the SR of Chara?
Sus.

Trying to case me as best as possible so I don't get yeet when I didn't want to be yeet?
Sus.

Like this is so obvious to me, but like I said...

Spoiler: I tried to give you waaarnin but everyones ignoorin! Cause Nobody's listenin!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ87793QXes[/youtube]

[Flea The Magician]

if you come from an uninformed perspective, it is impossible to rely on the "criminal" dynamics as your main basis to read someone (which you have been doing since you announced your solve)

Which I did, I just realised the game subtitled Yin and Yang with Yin and Yang as NPCs mght actually mean it's worth paying attention to the mechanics and the two NPCs.

[Flea The Magician]

not that not engaging with the game is necessarily scummy in isolation, of course, but in the context of your activity and energy between days, it denounces a +scum motivation considering you're not directing these elements towards an ai solving (something town!flea should be aware of/is good at)

I've engaged a lot with the game
That you're not seeing it is a you problem, not a me problem.

[Flea The Magician]

Also town flea generally doesn't give a fluff.
Scum flea will adapt around the concensus and make it look good.

Its ironic that my town game and scum game look completely opposite...

[Tanner]

i told myself i wasn't gonna but here i am anyway

Suddenly started to SR Ydrasse and retracting the SR of Chara?
Sus.

Trying to case me as best as possible so I don't get yeet when I didn't want to be yeet?
Sus.

except this doesn't make sense. like, let's think about this, i'm scum that is next in like to get yeeted. if i (1) get yeeted today, i'm flipping scum, and nobody is listening to anything i said in my last few days. like, you could argue i lowered my ydrasse townread or stopped scumreading chara "for the wifom", but literally everything i do in that case is gonna be wifom anyway. and if i (2) get conftown'ed by not hammering myself, but then i start pushing for chara, and then it flips red... i'm literally gamethrowing because i'd spend the last two day phases screaming how i don't want to be in this game. and suddenly going "nvm i actually do wanna play, let's spare chara!!", like? either i'm a brilliant scum mastermind who planned the whole game in advance or i'm an idiot who didn't realize that going "i hate this game, nvm i actually don't let's spare scum" would look god awful for me. but you can't have it both ways.

and again, this doesn't make sense because of the same reasons. if i ascend today and i flip red, who tf will give a shit about me casing you? in fact, amy already said she doesn't think we're scum/scum. what's the problem here? unless this is a point of "tanner is scum wasting time on casing me when i said it's pointless"... and i keep doing that when conftown has said she's annoyed by it? also that implies i'm doing nothing else, which like. lol. okay.

was i ever even scumreading chara? i thought earlier her interactions with infinity looked like partner unwilling to bus, but uh. that doesn't hold water anymore.

[Tanner]

also note, this morning i realized by "masons are about to start getting killed so that the game starts approaching 3p lylo" doesn't make sense, since 3p lylo is already unwinnable for us - either scum ascends and town loses, or one townie ascends and then there's one townie and one scum left and ??? happens.

[Ydrasse]

maybe the game just ends if we sentence you and then all is good

[Tanner]

¶

Votecount 3.2

[3] Satoru Nakata:

Morning Tweet, PookyTheMagicalBear, Ydrasse

[1] Tanner:

Flea The Magician

[1] Morning Tweet:

Satoru Nakata

[1] Flea The Magician:

Chara

[4] Not Voting:

Amy Dunne, Ircher, clidd, Tanner

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to sentence. If there is no majority by the deadline, plurality will decide.

The deadline is in (expired on 2021-07-21 00:49:41).

Joint moderator ISO.

Nakata is the PoE side that appears in most of my solves, so:

VOTE: Satoru Nakata

E-2

so i'm rereading alive slots around here, and i come to this. and i'm thinking, the vibe in the thread atm was that nakata was definitely going down. so this move from clidd struck me as weird (as in unlikely to come from scum), especially since chara said a few posts ago that it was willing to go nakata (2712). like, why jump on the wagon (which will reveal the wincons) when there are others obviously willing to do so.

(however, ctrl+f'ing "nakata" in the second part of clidd's iso, he did consistently call him scum, maybe he thought he would look worse if he didn't jump on.)

what inspired me to write this was the fact that flea had all the reasons to think that nakata is scum (nakata got confirmed as a criminal around this time) and fae didn't touch his wagon, until giving intent and nakata selfing. so fae would fit into the "calling buddy scum but not doing a lot to force the yeet". and chara would maybe fit that too...

and reading a bit further, at that point clidd chucked me into poe (even though at the time i felt like i was pretty obvtown due to infinity yeet), and he ignored that reasoning when i brought it up, *however* once the wincons are revealed, he calls me town because of a "reread" and refuses to give elaboration on that. this just feels... backwards? to the point i'm not sure scum!clidd does it, because he strikes me as a more traditional scum player rather than "do the wacky shit and get townread" one.

aaand i'm back to flea/chara???? @pooky pls can we talk about chara's folly, am i insane for equating that game to this

[Ydrasse]

the clidd being a traditional player is something that i was thinking about too for the norwee nk because that feels like a very baseline “this person pushed out scum; scum kills them because they are town from the push they made” without thinking about the revealed wincon and is like, normal maf

i don’t know if it’s fair to assume that with a team though scum!clidd singlehandedpy convinces them or something idk

[Ydrasse]

i think his apathy does make sense if he is town because he’s been shoved off to the side for most of the game or at least the end phase idk how much more im allowed to say because it fringes on [redacted]

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: Flea

i've seen scum Flea recently who pretty much turned around my scumread on faer via what looked like legit hunting. if Flea didn't do that in Royalty i think it's evidence faer scumgame doesn't always look the same. like a lot of players.

@Nakata - are you caught up?

like genuinely my fun has been sapped away 100% from this wooooo let’s goooooo

:<

i feel like flipping Robert may be a necessity but there are other slots i feel like have a better chance of flipping scum. i don't like "lack of scum agenda" as a reason because i think it excuses a lot of scummy play and ignores the idea of scum playing suboptimally as much as town does.

also re: Robert i also don't really want to think this is an ate scum tactic but my threshold for that is not everyone's threshold. the "coming clean" post seems like something scum Robert would not want to do if he's trying to delay his lim, i think scum Robert expects to flip eventually and removing the one thing making keeping him alive mechanically better just makes me think more that this is a town hopelessness rather than some kind of ploy. i'd rather not think it is without further evidence either.

the lack of scum agenda thing was about Flea, i'm not sure why it's where it is, i edited the post while writing it and i think i deleted part of it because the conclusion i wanted to have in there is essentially: i don't feel good flipping Robert even if it might be necessary, for this day i'd rather flip a player i think has a better shot of being scum, i still think Flea is a possibility for that though i'd say fae sticking to faer guns on the yin/yang thing and mechanics is net +town for faer. i don't love it though.

yin

, is there a criminal between Flea, Ydrasse, and Ircher?

Now this is a damn good question.

And I will eat the lim if it comes back positive.

i just do not understand this. if we were going to lim based on Yin confirming someone is a criminal it's going to be Tanner or me. if you're elimmed it's not going to be because Yin said so.

you should know you're not scum from your pov, right? if Yin said without a doubt you were a criminal are you then happy to lim yourself, even though that confirmation would mean that being a criminal isn't AI? even if it does have mechanical significance it just does not make sense to me.

also @Ydrasse i'm sorry you're not having fun. i understand your Robert SR but i don't share it atm. i'm not 100% opposed to the elim because i'm not sure who i want as the alternative yet but i think he's more likely to flip town than not.

VOTE: Flea

i'm not going to have a lot of time for mafia this week but i'd ask that players try and vote players they think are scum and not players they think they're town because they're frustrated with them.

also my townread on clidd has gotten really stale.

i would be voting Nakata but i don't want the day to be rushed through.

@Flea - what question would you want me to ask?

pedit: i don't know if it's tmi since Nakata is speaking from the pov of "if i'm scum then why would i do this with town tweet".

i think if town Nakata could claim something like that and believe it scum Nakata could believe the exact same thing

Nakata or Flea today. i don't think they're both scum, but it's possible. my first guess for scum in the not-immediately-obvious players is clidd, i have reasons to tr all of Amy, Tweetie, Tanner, Ydrasse, Pooky more than clidd though the only ones i'm very sure of are Amy and Tweetie atm.

this is from d2/d3 i believe? (am on phone)

[Tanner]

the clidd being a traditional player is something that i was thinking about too for the norwee nk because that feels like a very baseline “this person pushed out scum; scum kills them because they are town from the push they made” without thinking about the revealed wincon and is like, normal maf

if i had to guess, i *think* norwee got killed because he was never getting yeeted (which means he probably survives to this phase) and he's also pretty good at spewing himself town, despite the position on the infinity wagon?

[Ydrasse]

yeah, i didn't like that post from Flea, considering my read wasn't sudden at all and i've made pretty clear previously why i scumread faer.
i'm still happy to vote Nakata, that hasn't changed and none of the pop-ins since have done anything to improve my impressions of the slot. i just don't want the day to end before i'm ready like yesterday.

happy is the wrong word, i'm concerned about the Nakata consensus a bit. but i'd trust my individual read on the slot before i looked at the wagon formation.

not speed-elimming here, i'm throwing out my reads and starting again.

iirc what i didn't like from clidd actually makes me feel a lot better about him now, he was against both Inf's and Nakata's elims in a way that felt more substantial than token at the time. and he was really gung-ho about Robert.

my Ydrasse read was also more based on her doing things and reacting in ways i think scum Ydrasse definitely doesn't, emotionally speaking, and that hasn't changed. but it's still worth looking at her again too to be sure.

off the top of my head Tanner is still very town, especially with the Robert context, but i'm really not okay just eliminating him right away.

I was originally on Pooky's side and thinking we should keep the more obvious town in, but I suppose if we're going to be surprised by mafia in the town bloc it'd be better to get that out of the way before we get really invested

I feel like there is scum in clidd/Flea/Chara for sure

this is why i'm against just eliminating down the townblock. and i'm concerned about you because your scumlist + townreads seem to be exactly the same as before.

i'm never getting sentenced anyway, that's pretty clear, so we need four other townies to be sentenced, and that gives a margin of error of 1 player. if clidd and Flea are both town, that's a problem, and if one is scum and the wrong one is sentenced, there you go. Flea isn't scum unless something went pretty wrong with the scumteam's planning, which is possible but certainly not something to rely on. and clidd also has a good shot of being town, i gave my reasoning to why, and the fact he's behaving the way he is this day phase also doesn't strike me as someone trying to get himself townread.

them both being scum just seems really unlikely to me right now.